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CEO complains about iPad being "too cheap"

AppleHater said:
Yeah, Google is not contributing much despite of astronomical money they make. No, android doesn't count as they bought the company it's like MS-DOS for Microsoft. Google used to put their word and action together better in the past, but they are no better if not worse than others nowadays. Having said that I'm not hating Google as all companies are here to make money.
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I get very worried when a corporation gets so powerful (I am even worried that apple might be affected by this of course) as google is at the moment. With so many people, billions, sharing their data, privacy, emails, searches, ads over google. It's scary, and it's global, and I want to see them knocked down and more corporations handling all the above instead of one.

And we are talking about global scales here...so I don't hate them either, well, only in passing wrt apple, but I do hate what they stand for and that's a colossal unaccountable, unelected, power structure getting that much of the collective wealth, and I am not talking about only money here, but about privacy, intellectual property, marketing, etc. etc.

It's something we should all think about, do we want our gmails, our greaders, or google searches, our google adds, or do we want searches, adds, mail, readers etc. by more players around the world, with proper privacy measures (by our ELECTED governments), more variety, more choice and less concentration of all the worlds data in ONE single corporation?

but hey google (the good, good google) is giving their os for free (the os they bought as you said, and then a. ripped off the iphone, and, b. ripped off java's patents) to any dime a dozen manufacturer who can slap a few circuits together (but who've spent the past 20 or so years, making easy profits instead of getting their ... together to make/buy/modify/end up with some semblance of an os), they HAVE to be good then, right?
 
blow45 said:
Yes of course it's important who dominates an area, see what happened with ms and pcs? Could anyone in their right mind suggest that ms's dominance truly propelled the industry to innovate forward? Surely not. Could the case be made that someone else instead of ms could have done a better job. Surely.

Oh, I am all for the market deciding, that's why I am not lamenting apple's foreseeable dominance in the ipad market too. Of course the market isn't sometimes mature enough to choose wisely, but it's what we have, and right now in tech terms the market is far more mature too. Sadly, although as you say is the choice between great and crap, usually great wins, when it comes to great vs. merely capable, the latter wins a lot of the time too. Like I said markets aren't perfect gauges of quality, by far, but there's not point debating their merits since it's the only thing we have ultimately, markets are the arbitrator, the only one in some cases.
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So if Steve wasn't such a control freak a few decades ago Apple might have 90% of the pc market and that would be ok?
 
kdarling said:
Got a link for any of these statements, because I can't find a thing. Thanks!
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It didn't make it to any of the English version of the Korean newspapers so you won't find anything in English. Feel free to Babelfish/Google translate these pages:

http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2011032523281&sid=01040201&nid=000<ype=1

http://media.daum.net/digital/it/view.html?cateid=1077&newsid=20110325140905771&p=inews24

Also here's the Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantech
 
AppleScruff1 said:
So if Steve wasn't such a control freak a few decades ago Apple might have 90% of the pc market and that would be ok?
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I don't really like discussing these hypothetical scenarios, we can't go back and change history, so I don't know what you want me to answer. I don't think it had anything to do with Steve being a control freak, it was more a compatibility issue, and of course lots more, we could stay here till next day talking about this. Having said that, I will humor you here, so, yes, I would of course prefer apple's 90% of the market than microsoft's 90%, but again this isn't saying much, it's all so hypothetical is it, cause when you put so many ifs in the equation, the very nature of what we are talking about changes. Would birds walk upright if they didn't have any wings? See what I mean?

Generally it's not bad if someone dominates a market, but it depends on what market this is, there are so many parameters here, and we cant' talk on an abstract, in pricinple level about all these.
 
blow45 said:
I don't really like discussing these hypothetical scenarios, we can't go back and change history, so I don't know what you want me to answer. I don't think it had anything to do with Steve being a control freak, it was more a compatibility issue, and of course lots more, we could stay here till next day talking about this. Having said that, I will humor you here, so, yes, I would of course prefer apple's 90% of the market than microsoft's 90%, but again this isn't saying much, it's all so hypothetical is it, cause when you put so many ifs in the equation, the very nature of what we are talking about changes. Would birds walk upright if they didn't have any wings? See what I mean?

Generally it's not bad if someone dominates a market, but it depends on what market this is, there are so many parameters here, and we cant' talk on an abstract, in pricinple level about all these.
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I was just curious on the reasons for your statements, that's all. It came across to me that Apple's domination is fine, but Microsoft's isn't. It seemed a bit hypocritical to me, that's all.
 
Remember back to the days of Apple clones. Bad move because they sucked. What Apple has always had that others didn't was quality hardware along with their operating system. Competition is good, but control over your product and reputation is paramount. This is what Apple does.

I still have my Classic, monitor finally died a few years ago....I still miss it. It will be a Macquarium someday..
 
master-ceo said:
I don't understand how Samsung can "take a loss" when their name is in each iDevice sold.
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It's because 'Samsung' have many divisions to their business, but in this case to simplify we'll imagine they have just 2; they have 1 their 'Business to Business Sales Division ie: it sells screens to insert into gadgets like the ipad'. They also have their 'Consumer Sales Division. It retails directly to consumers'. So it follows that 'Business Division is Good'. But alas 'Consumer Sales are bad'.

HTH

maliu said:
Remember back to the days of Apple clones. Bad move because they sucked.
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Which is ironic, given the fact that Apple orders their product from Shenzen in China, which is the SAME place that the 'clones' were built and sold from.

What Apple has always had that others didn't was quality hardware along with their operating system.
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Oh please.

Competition is good, but control over your product and reputation is paramount. This is what Apple does.
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No its not, people will buy any old crap as long as it has the right brand association. Which is what Apple has been fortunate in doing. We'll see how important 'product reputation' is to Apple in the coming weeks, with all these iPads being returned to Apple, will they suddenly see a loss and have to recover from it, or will they simply put in place some method of control to stop the returns. If history plays a part it suggests, they'll do the same as they did with the iPhone 4 and the 'bumper'.
 
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samsung hasn't anything to do with displays at the mo (for apple that is), they only manufacture the cpu and (I believe) some of the flash (although toshi takes up something like this). There's a big deal with lg amongst others for screens and lots of money pumped in there, we should be expecting some great stuff soon.
 
blow45 said:
samsung hasn't anything to do with displays at the mo (for apple that is)
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if i remember correctly they do produce displays alongside of LG. Apple is producing so many iPads that a single company cannot meet demands.

Also this is probably why Apple won't adopt AMOLED any time soon. There just isn't enough capacity right now.
 
maliu said:
Remember back to the days of Apple clones. Bad move because they sucked. What Apple has always had that others didn't was quality hardware along with their operating system. Competition is good, but control over your product and reputation is paramount. This is what Apple does.

I still have my Classic, monitor finally died a few years ago....I still miss it. It will be a Macquarium someday..
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It's not necessarily "quality" hardware (Apple's computers and iDevices use the same components that most other products use), but it's the fact they they know PRECISELY what hardware their software will always be running on. The know the exact processor(s), GPU(s), exact amount of RAM (well..their computers can be upgraded in this regard, but they at least know the minimum the device was shipped with), etc. With this knowledge, they can optimize the software precisely for the hardware, and maximize the user experience. That's why they are able to do so much with "so little". Other software only companies have no clue what hardware their OS's will be running on...Windows could be on a quad core, 32Gb of RAM machine with a monster video card/GPU, or a netbook with a piddling processor and integrated graphics. Android could be running on a dual core, fast as hell Tegra 2 system, or a bargain basement CPU/GPU using 3 year old tech (such as an entry level android device). So they (Microsoft and Google/Android) have to code the operating system to accommodate the lowest spec devices possible (and a perfect example of this is that Android isn't even optimized for the dual core processors in phones such as the Atrix, and therefore isn't as fast of a performing phone as it could be). Whereas Apple knows all the CPU/GPU combos their OS will be running on, and can optimize accordingly. An example of this would be the upcoming iOS 5...Apple already knows that all their next gen iDevices will be running the dual core A5 setup that's in the iPad 2, so you can best believe that iOS will be optimized as all hell for a dual core CPU/GPU, and will squeeze every last ounce of performance (plus battery life..as they also know the exact capacities of all the batteries their devices have) out of it. This software plus hardware control is why Apple's devices (iDevices and computers) can, and often are, underspecced compared to the competition, but almost always run circles around them in performance and ease of use.
 
blow45 said:
It's something we should all think about, do we want our gmails, our greaders, or google searches, our google adds, or do we want searches, adds, mail, readers etc. by more players around the world, with proper privacy measures (by our ELECTED governments), more variety, more choice and less concentration of all the worlds data in ONE single corporation?

but hey google (the good, good google) is giving their os for free (the os they bought as you said, and then a. ripped off the iphone, and, b. ripped off java's patents) to any dime a dozen manufacturer who can slap a few circuits together (but who've spent the past 20 or so years, making easy profits instead of getting their ... together to make/buy/modify/end up with some semblance of an os), they HAVE to be good then, right?
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Yeah, there is no such thing as free lunch, or free anything!
 
As said before, nobody wants Apple to be a monopoly, although, I think Apple's iPad 2 prices are there to keep the others honest.

There is no way the Galaxy Tab was worth £499 without contract, and to be honest, as an entire package, the iPad is just better than the Xoom at the moment.
 
fertilized-egg said:
if i remember correctly they do produce displays alongside of LG. Apple is producing so many iPads that a single company cannot meet demands.

Also this is probably why Apple won't adopt AMOLED any time soon. There just isn't enough capacity right now.
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sure, but I thought they were in conjunction with someone else not samsung in addition to lg, but it seems I remember wrong.
 
Here is my take on all this, apple is selling the iPad fairly aggressively with all things they build into it considered. When a consumer buys a product in most cases they buy from a reseller, Apple as a mfg has been very lucky in that, they are able to get a good portion of their sales through their retail outlets (which means more Gross Margin on sales in retail stores)

I think the rational behind the pricing model is not only keep competitors at bay, but also they own the app market in their eco system.

When Samsung or Motorola make a tablet, they have to make ALL of their profits on selling to the retailers/ wholesalers, and have almost 0 retail sales to help leverage their profitability, also once the sale is complete they do not get a piece of the pie when it comes to the app store.

Call me crazy but I think this is genius Apple is making a killing since there a lot of people buying app's and Apple gets a cut.
 
princealyy said:
Call me crazy but I think this is genius Apple is making a killing since there a lot of people buying app's and Apple gets a cut.
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No you are absolutely correct... That is the key reason why Apple has the leg up on the current competition, like Moto and Samsung. Apple continues to profit off the hardware after the sale, so Apple can "factor" the additional profits into the pricing models. So it really make no sense for these hardware makers to take a "loss" on the product. It will be interesting to see how HP and RIM's tablets will factor into the mix in the near future. Both HP (WebOS) and RIM will be creating their own eco-system as well.
 
blow45 said:
sure, but I thought they were in conjunction with someone else not samsung in addition to lg, but it seems I remember wrong.
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I just checked articles and reportedly it's Samsung and CMI of Taiwan who are additional suppliers of iPad screens. Interestingly it means Instead of IPS some iPads have PLS screens which is Samsung's high end LCD tech.

Also next time you see an internet claim on how wonderful the upcoming Samsung tablet will be with this amazing PLS technology you can tell them the iPads have already using the technology for a while as apparently some iPad 1 had Samsung screens.

Call me crazy but I think this is genius Apple is making a killing since there a lot of people buying app's and Apple gets a cut.
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As far as we know so far the app store really hasn't been a big profit generator. It costs Apple a lot of money to keep the store running and there are a ton of free apps Apple gets no cut from. Also others get OS for free whereas Apple has to spend money to develop its own OS.
 
Cha said:
No you are absolutely correct... That is the key reason why Apple has the leg up on the current competition, like Moto and Samsung. Apple continues to profit off the hardware after the sale, so Apple can "factor" the additional profits into the pricing models. So it really make no sense for these hardware makers to take a "loss" on the product. It will be interesting to see how HP and RIM's tablets will factor into the mix in the near future. Both HP (WebOS) and RIM will be creating their own eco-system as well.
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Agreed, I know a lot of people on this forum are ... shall I say passionate about Apple products, and while I do admire the company, I can see the value of having competition in the market....

We need other mfg's to succeed in order for Apple to innovate... someone has to keep them honest (if that's possible)
 
fertilized-egg said:
As far as we know so far the app store really hasn't been a big profit generator. It costs Apple a lot of money to keep the store running and there are a ton of free apps Apple gets no cut from. Also others get OS for free whereas Apple has to spend money to develop its own OS.
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Yep... in the current picture, the gross revenue purely from the App Store is relatively small compared to the company's overall gross profit. But the true valuation on the eco-system is hard to quantify with iBooks, iAds, Developer fees, and etc. Also, don't forget Apple is attempting to increase it's cut in the subscription and in-app purchasing fees.
 
You're kidding, right?

This is silly. "Predatory pricing" has a specific meaning: To price your product so low - below even your own cost of manufacture if necessary - that you succeed in bankrupting your competition, so that you can then turn around and jack up prices later, once consumers have no other options.

We know almost to the penny what it costs Apple to manufacture an iPad. We know they are making plenty of profit on every single one sold. It's also a category Apple arguably invented, so there's no other companies for Apple to crush in the first place, just wannabes that can't find a way to get in the game.

Apple couldn't possibly be doing less wrong here.
 
C N Reilly said:
This is silly. "Predatory pricing" has a specific meaning: To price your product so low - below even your own cost of manufacture if necessary - that you succeed in bankrupting your competition, so that you can then turn around and jack up prices later, once consumers have no other options.

We know almost to the penny what it costs Apple to manufacture an iPad. We know they are making plenty of profit on every single one sold. It's also a category Apple arguably invented, so there's no other companies for Apple to crush in the first place, just wannabes that can't find a way to get in the game.

Apple couldn't possibly be doing less wrong here.
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We know how much the materials for the iPad cost, not how much it costs to manufacture it. Plus there's shipping, marketing, R&D...
 
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