CERN researchers claim superluminal neutrinos

[mkrishnan]

C now simply refers to the speed of a neutrino squared.

Whatever turns out to be the next iteration of the theory, it probably wouldn't be that. That light travels at the measured C is fairly well established, and relativistic theories that use scaling to the speed of light (and not neutrinos if they are indeed faster) have a lot of validation evidence without needing this sort of correction.

That being said I guess it's possible that there's a theory that for some reason lets neutrinos go faster than light without violating relativity.

Who knows? Neutrinos are pretty pesky, but then so was Einstein. Sometimes even when his logic was clearly wrong (cosmological constant) it still seems, 50 or 75 years later, that he may have been unintentionally right.

 

[PurpleMarmalade]

Even if the measurements at CERN are correct, it doesn't mean Einstein is wrong; relativity may simply be limited to four dimensions.

 

[RawBert]

Just as we all suspected, an error has been found.

Engadget
Remember those faster-than-light neutrinos? Great, now forget 'em

A week ago the world went wild over CERN's tentative claim that it could make neutrinos travel faster than light. Suddenly, intergalactic tourism and day trips to the real Jurassic Park were back on the menu, despite everything Einstein said. Now, however, a team of scientists at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands reckons it's come up with a more plausible (and disappointing) explanation of what happened: the GPS satellites used to measure the departure and arrival times of the racing neutrinos were themselves subject to Einsteinian effects, because they were in motion relative to the experiment. This relative motion wasn't properly taken into account, but it would have decreased the neutrinos' apparent journey time. The Dutch scientists calculated the error and came up with the 64 nanoseconds. Sound familiar? That's because it's almost exactly the margin by which CERN's neutrinos were supposed to have beaten light. So, it's Monday morning, Alpha Centauri and medieval jousting tournaments remain as out of reach as ever, and we just thought we'd let you know.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Just as we all suspected, an error has been found.

Ahem!!! Close enough.

Do they allow for the time it takes for electrical energy to pass through their test equipment?

 

[mkrishnan]

Ahem!!! Close enough.

If it turns out relativistic effects involving GPS satellites really was to blame, that's a surprisingly obvious slip. Hmmm... well, we'll see.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

If it turns out relativistic effects involving GPS satellites really was to blame, that's a surprisingly obvious slip. Hmmm... well, we'll see.

Sometimes, one is so involved in the details of one's work that basic mistakes are made in the assumptions or controls. That's why peer review is so important. Still, it does seem a rather basic error...at least they framed their announcement as a call for others to check it!

 

[molala]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (iPhone; Opera Mini/6.1.15738/26.984; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 Version/10.54)

When there are so many explanations to rule out, it's easy to miss basic ones. It is good that they invited other scientists to check their data and didn't overstate their findings. Somewhere, Einstein does a fistpump.

 

[iJohnHenry]

They should calm down. This one was cheap in comparison.

Mars Climate Orbiter

11 December 1998 to 23 September 1999

Crashed on surface due to metric-imperial mix-up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars

 

[obeygiant]

Just as we all suspected, an error has been found.

Well, now I'll have to sell my DeLorean.

 

[darkplanets]

If it turns out relativistic effects involving GPS satellites really was to blame, that's a surprisingly obvious slip. Hmmm... well, we'll see.

People make dumb mistakes all the time, especially in science, and especially since GPS satellites have some form of relativity correction already as per reading other articles. My research prof sums it up nicely: "ready, fire, aim."

 

[whooleytoo]

But...but.. what if they video taped these as-fast-as-light neutrinos, watched the video and then pressed fast forward on the video player. Wouldn't that make them faster than light?

 

[ghoti]

Me either.


And say an object (of significant size, such as like....a ball) is traveling faster than the speed of light. Would the object going through the air actually be some time behind where the object is at the moment? Since it's going faster than the speed of light, it'd be at point A, when you see it at point B.


*Balls path* ------------B----------------------A


*You*



How is that time travel? Wouldn't that be more of a form of teleportation? Not actually moving the particles through space and time, but moving faster than you can see, so the object ends up at another place faster than you can see?

Yeah, it actually *isn't* time travel, it is "time dilation". The possibility of time travel is almost entirely dismissed, but time dilation is a very real effect of fast motion.

In a nutshell, the faster the object is moving, the slower IT experiences time while an outside observer experiences time "normally".

Not traveling through time, just stretching it.

 

[carlgo]

Still, that machine is incredibly impressive.

 

[mkrishnan]

This article talks about a variation of the study that is being performed to see whether the result can be replicated with some of the issues previously cited addressed.

The scientists who last month appeared to have found that certain subatomic particles can travel faster than light have fine-tuned their experiment to check whether the remarkable discovery is correct.

Their modified experiments – which are the result of suggestions from other physicists about potential flaws in their research – should be completed before the end of the year.

[...]

First time around, the Cern scientists fired pulses of neutrinos lasting around 10 microseconds each through the rock to Gran Sasso. In the new tests, the beams will be thousands of times shorter – around one or 2 nanoseconds – with large gaps between them. This will allow scientists to time the arrival of the neutrinos at Gran Sasso with greater accuracy and, hopefully, shed light on the anomalous faster-than-light results.

It continues to be an exciting time in experimental particle physics.

 

[anotonin]

This would make Einstein roll over in his grave if true.

No it won't. Einstein would have accepted that his theory might not be true. After all, it is only a theory.

 

[0098386]

No it won't. Einstein would have accepted that his theory might not be true. After all, it is only a theory.

I imagine like any other good egg, he'd appreciate the advances in tech and being wrong from time to time.
Besides aren't scientific theories, such as evolution and relativity, pretty much treated as truth? Stephen Fry said so on QI last night, and Fry can't be wrong since he's a theory too.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Technology and technique have advanced much since his day.

Imagine what that brain could accomplish today?

He gave us a jumping-off point, so let's just be happy with that.