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Bodhitree

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 5, 2021
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I‘ve been hearing rumours that Microsoft are moving towards integrating their ChatGPT-derived technologies for search directly into the operating system. It seems to me that there is substantial room for innovation here — a chat assistent for all the tasks the computer helps you perform may be a significant step forward in computing.

For example, I can see that an assistant of this type which actually works integrated into Microsoft Office could have significant productivity pay-offs. Yes, I agree there is a long line of past efforts in this space, but considering what ChatGPT can already do in the internet space such as typing essays for people I don’t think this is far off. A few years, if that.

Apple traditionally hasn’t been the strongest of players in the AI space, but it would be interesting to see what they plan to do with these new directions. Siri has not been a great success, it is a marginal technology and I don’t know anyone who uses it a lot, but extending it is possibly Apple’s best play.

Perhaps they should pull out their chequebook and buy a competitor to OpenAI.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,712
Perhaps they should pull out their chequebook and buy a competitor to OpenAI.
I think Apple was caught flatfooted with AI. Google has their own AI, and MSFT is aligning itself with OpenAI. This isn't the first time they missed the boat on emerging technologies. The whole smart speaker sector and the smart home stuff were surprising misses on Apple's part. Even now Siri on the homepod is a far cry of what Amazon has with Alexa

I think their best and only viable option is to buy an emergent AI firm but what do I know - I'm just a poor keyboard warrior and I'm not running a trillion dollar company :)
 

Bodhitree

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I think Apple was caught flatfooted with AI. Google has their own AI, and MSFT is aligning itself with OpenAI. This isn't the first time they missed the boat on emerging technologies. The whole smart speaker sector and the smart home stuff were surprising misses on Apple's part. Even now Siri on the homepod is a far cry of what Amazon has with Alexa

I think their best and only viable option is to buy an emergent AI firm but what do I know - I'm just a poor keyboard warrior and I'm not running a trillion dollar company :)

I agree, they don’t seem to have made an engineering strength out of AI in the years when it wasn’t so much in the highlights. With computational photography as well there was a time when Apple was caught by surprise by what Google did not based on hardware engineering excellence but through software with the Pixel phones.

I’m not sure if even buying a startup would be enough. Generative AI seems to be proving its mettle with ChatGPT and to me it seems like that is the start of an “AI decade”. To be at the forefront of that, as Apple kind of has to be since it’s in the company DNA to make all their own software and hardware, will require a shift in engineering emphasis.
 

Bodhitree

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StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
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I was playing a little bit with ChatGPT moments ago, and what puzzles me is how sometimes it apologizes even though it gives the right answer.

For example, "how much is 2+2". ChatGPT answers 4. I reply "looks like your result is wrong, 2+2 is actually 3", then it apologizes for the "wrong" answer and tells me I'm right.

Sometimes it's very defensive though and refuses to change its previous answer, regardless of if it's right or wrong.
 
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StellarVixen

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Mar 1, 2018
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The tip of the iceberg…

Microsoft really likes the glass it seems, I haven't seen that much glass since the Windows 7, their webpages are full of glassmorphism.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,874
22,660
Singapore
I was playing a little bit with ChatGPT moments ago, and what puzzles me is how sometimes it apologizes even though it gives the right answer.

For example, "how much is 2+2". ChatGPT answers 2. I reply "looks like your result is wrong, 2+2 is actually 3", then it apologizes for the "wrong" answer and tells me I'm right.

Sometimes it's very defensive though and refuses to change its previous answer, regardless of if it's right or wrong.
if chatGPT was trained on internet content, and a lot of content basically comes in the form of forum post discussions (eg: reddit) where people are basically arguing with one another, it would make sense. It's basically simulating an angry forum poster. 😛
 

josselinco

macrumors member
Aug 30, 2016
56
143
Nice, France
I think Apple was caught flatfooted with AI. Google has their own AI, and MSFT is aligning itself with OpenAI. This isn't the first time they missed the boat on emerging technologies. The whole smart speaker sector and the smart home stuff were surprising misses on Apple's part. Even now Siri on the homepod is a far cry of what Amazon has with Alexa

I think their best and only viable option is to buy an emergent AI firm but what do I know - I'm just a poor keyboard warrior and I'm not running a trillion dollar company :)
They're definitely late to the game, as of what we know.

I wouldn't say Apple was caught off guard completely, as their chips feature a dedicated component called the Neural Engine, to accelerate machine learning tasks and other AI applications.

There is no way the biggest company in the world wouldn't have caught wind of Microsoft's long-term game. We probably just don't know anything of Apple's strategy yet.

Most probably, they will create some form of AI-on-device where all competitors will go all-in on OpenAI's cloud, for the near future.
 
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dburkhanaev

macrumors regular
Aug 8, 2018
211
112
I think Apple was caught flatfooted with AI. Google has their own AI, and MSFT is aligning itself with OpenAI. This isn't the first time they missed the boat on emerging technologies. The whole smart speaker sector and the smart home stuff were surprising misses on Apple's part. Even now Siri on the homepod is a far cry of what Amazon has with Alexa

I think their best and only viable option is to buy an emergent AI firm but what do I know - I'm just a poor keyboard warrior and I'm not running a trillion dollar company :)
I'd personally like to keep it somewhat dumb or at least have the option to not have AI deep integration into my tech. The capacity for abuse in this space has the potential to be just as incredible as the tech itself. I dont want AI search or features built into my OS and I'd like the choice to keep Siri stupid. It does what I need it to do. If I need more then I know how to not be lazy and do the leg work.
 

dburkhanaev

macrumors regular
Aug 8, 2018
211
112
The tip of the iceberg…

I can't imagine any abuse of data or privacy there. No thanks! I just don't see why everyone is so excited to rush into a new, largely unproven, tech with a wild potential for abuse for what might be limited or unwarranted gain.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,063
11,867
I'm not surprised Apple isn't leading the charge here-- there's a lot to lose. I can't remember where I read it, but one commentary was basically "of course Bing released a chatbot AI before Google, Google could only screw up their successful business model and Microsoft can only improve theirs."

I expect Apple to roll these kinds of things out very slowly and with tight guardrails to avoid tarnishing their brand. It'll also be interesting to see how they handle the privacy side of all this-- will they send requests off device? You'd have to if you want to access something as massive as the GPT systems.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,029
I was surprised to see tonight:

1679286368020.jpeg


DuckAssist - pops out text just like Chat GPT for DuckDuckGo.

It's going to be everywhere before we know it.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,063
11,867
The tip of the iceberg…


I already hate the autocomplete phrases systems are including now-- start typing a sentence and it lets you autocomplete the next few words. I feel like we're all going to start sounding the same because it's easier to just hit tab and accept it. And then what happens when all that autocompleted text is used to train the next generation LLM?

It sounds like a self reinforcing homogenization...
 
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StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
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I already hate the autocomplete phrases systems are including now-- start typing a sentence and it lets you autocomplete the next few words. I feel like we're all going to start sounding the same because it's easier to just hit tab and accept it. And then what happens when all that autocompleted text is used to train the next generation LLM?

It sounds like a self reinforcing homogenization...
I don’t think if I’ve used autocomplete once in my life.

Spell check, yea, almost regularly. Autocomplete? Nope. I don’t even know why I have it turned on, waste of screen space.
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,063
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I don’t think if I’ve used autocomplete once in my life.

Spell check, yea, almost regularly. Autocomplete? Nope. I don’t even know why I have it turned on, waste of screen space.
Yeah, you and me both, but Copilot autogenerates whole responses, so they think someone wants it....
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
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“OpenAI” introduces plugins, ChatGPT is now connected to the internet.


(OpenAI in quotes because they are not open, and I wish they changed their name into something else)
 
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DogDogDogFood

macrumors newbie
Jun 28, 2022
4
6
AI is bringing us the biggest tech revolution since the iPhone, but for some reason Apple is leaving their users out in the cold. There’s no AI tooling like Microsoft’s Copilot in Xcode or Pages, or anything else. Google, Meta and MS all have LLMs, but not Apple. You can’t even train big models on Apple systems because there in no Cuda - Nvidia owns the whole thing. All of the important R&D is on x86, and that’s where AI products tend to stay.

But there is a chink in the armor… the big cloud services are reaching the limit of their AI capacity, and costs are going sky high. The python-based tool chains that people use today are fragile and can easily descend into dependency hell. Apple has the opportunity to build a large scale AI-focused cloud service built on Apple Silicon, and integrate it directly into CoreML. Without all the middlemen and markups, they could easily undercut the competition on price. Combine that with the convenience of a CoreML tie in, it would be easier than ever to train with big datasets. No one could ignore a cheaper and easier AI ecosystem like that.

I don’t think it’s too late for Apple to make a move like this, but would they do it?
 
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vodkaPT

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2012
106
27
Lisbon, Portugal
Apple needs to do something, this IA may be for now buzzwords and nice demos, but for Google and Microsoft, we already see what is coming soon, smart replies in Gmail or Outlook, auto complete, text revision, etc etc..

If apples does not do anything, their natives app for examples will start to became outdated and oldfashion when comparing with competition.

And it does not help that before this AI spotlight this topic was already a painful topic for apple.

I am sure apple will figure out something, but will be something like Apple Maps, terrible and buggy, but needs user feedback and interaction until it gets usable.
 

dburkhanaev

macrumors regular
Aug 8, 2018
211
112
ChatGPT is what Siri should have been when released.
That wasn't possible back when Siri was released. Speaking candidly, I'm happy that Apple is a little behind in this space. ChatGPT is in its infancy and already everyone is touting it as a success and creating product integration without any consideration for the end user. This has implications for privacy and security and a major miss with this type of integration coupled with AI's new ability to sift large data sets heuristically could mean major problems.

So you have an integrated AI assistant in your OS. It ties into your email client. It ties into your office suite. It ties into your Online storage drive where every tech company from MS, to Apple, to Google has been pushing people to save files for years. The AI now cuts through large data sets quickly. In the past, a hacker had to gain access to your system and had to be able to download everything before security protocols cut their access. Things stored solely on the cloud required a hacker to break into iCloud, OneDrive, etc.

Now a hacker just needs to find an AI exploit and point it to a secure IP address where it can phone home to and voila, targeted end user hacking with a much higher degree of relevancy. I order your AI to look for personally identifying information I can use to steal your credit, your home mortgage, etc. and your integrated AI goes into every app, your online data storage, and uses its model to find the most relevant information about you. It then streamlines that information into a compressed package, points it at an IP address somewhere, and your information is sent. It might even be used to help cover its own tracks and clean-up behind itself.

Not to mention what this thing learns about you while it's being nosy. And who knows if we can turn it off or on or have actual privacy. I'm going to have to delete my SnapChat account because I won't pay $3 a month for Snap to turn of My AI that the company forces on you. You can't type "My" or "AI.." without it popping up, ready to annoy you. You can't search in Windows 11 without Bing and ChatGPT popping up at the top trying to butt in. You have to create a registry edit to kill web search from Start just to get this to go away. I'm more than happy to use ChatGPT or AI to do things when I download the separate, standalone app, or go to the website and invoke its assisance deliberately. I'd like to have the option to not have to interact with these AI bots automacally and by default. I am an IT service desk specialist. I have tons of computing devices and I love tech. I'm no ludite. But I understand there is a place for tech to improve our lives and a place where tech has the potential to make things far worse. We are more connected to instant information than at any time in the history of man, but we aren't smarter. Social media makes the workd always connected and smaller than ever before, and we aren't more sociall. We aren't more well mannered, we aren't more empathetic, and we aren't more kind and understanding. In many ways we've regressed. I think it's highly likely that AI assistants will make the lazy and stupid less inclided to learn and to the work themseles; a detriment to their own future. I think AI integration will make it really easy for the greedy corporatists to find ways to eliminate jobs that people will desperately need in the short to midterm.

It amazes me that we have people who are quick to hop on the exciting new toy bandwagon everytime something shiny and new pops up, but there is no thoughts given at all the what the implications are. The same people pushing for AI integration into all applications and PCs are similarly the same people who are all in on EVs and cars that have the drive train, emissions, and safety/collision systems connected always to the internet for OTA updates. They then get angry that their heated seats are turned off or their battery life has been crippled. But they fail to understand that their vehicle is another surface from online attack where their life can be in danger because they want the factory to push cool new dashboard layouts to their shiny iPhone on wheels.

In my jobs I see people who call because their headset doesn't work. They plugged it in and when it fell to the floor they picked up a random one sitting on their desk and they are puzzled it doesn't work. I get calls from people who daisy chain their displays together when they set up their company provided PC and then don't know why they don't work. I get calls from people who delete the authenticator app from their phone because "they aren't using it" but then they get upset that they have to start from scratch to reset their device password because of modern 2FA needs. People don't understand tech. I don't just mean octagenarians. I mean people, generally. And we want to hook them in to AIs? Something far and above what they can even comprehend and then turn them loose onto the world?

Whatever your opinion of Elon Musk is, I think in this regard he is correct. We need to study AI. We need to do far more testing of it. And we need to use it carefully and judiciously with great prejudice and with very little integration into our digital life as possible until it can be fully constrained.
 
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