Check Out Doom Running on Apple's Lightning to HDMI Adapter

[surferfb]

Maybe you should rewrite the Wikipedia page then, because it holds false information.

Not interested in becoming a Wikipedia editor, but a document that’s literally from the USB-C Specification Working Group ought to settle this.

Here is also information about Apple rejecting the use of usb type c standard:

Regulations for compatibility​

edit
Further information: Radio Equipment Directive (2022)
In 2021, the European Commission proposed the use of USB-C as a universal charger.[98][99][100] On 4 October 2022, the European Parliament voted in favor of the new law, Radio Equipment Directive 2022/2380, with 602 votes in favor, 13 against and 8 abstentions.[101] The regulation requires that all new mobile phones, tablets, cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld video game consoles, portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, and earbuds sold in the European Union and supporting wired charging, would have to be equipped with a USB-C port and charge with a standard USB-C to USB-C cable by the end of 2024. Additionally, if these devices support fast charging, they must support USB Power Delivery. These regulations will extend to laptops by early 2026.[102] To comply with these regulations, Apple Inc. replaced its proprietary Lightning connector with USB-C beginning with the iPhone 15 and AirPods Prosecond generation, released in 2023.[103][failed verification] A first modified iPhone having USB-C connector was the result of a hack by Ken Pillonel.[104]

In late December 2024, new EU regulations took effect, mandating USB-C charging ports for all small and medium-sized electronic devices sold in the EU, with laptops to follow by 2026. These rules were aimed at reducing waste and saving €250 million annually for consumers. Apple, which initially opposed the changes, had since adopted USB-C for its products. Additionally, consumers can opt not to receive a new charger with their device.[105]

I don't see what that has to do with what we're talking about here. Nothing there says anything about Apple rejecting the standard - remember, Apple literally introduced the first USB-C laptop. Just because Apple didn't transition the phone to USB-C as fast as you would like (after promising at the introduction of Lightening that it would be the connector for the next decade - and still getting raked over the coals by customers and the press for changing from 30-PIN to lightening) doesn't mean they weren't already planning to even if the EU hadn't stupidly mandated it.

 

[9081094]

TAKE THAT LINUS

who says macs cant game???

Is that Pong running on those Macs? BTW I had the same G4 powermac with monitor 😂

 

[Dangermen]

That's exactly what is happening, yes. "HDMI" by default sends raw video signals with no compression. USB 2.0 isn't fast enough for even 720p raw uncompressed video. So the adapter deals with compressed (H.264 or H.265, I forget which) video. The phone compresses it just as if it were recording a video or sending over AirPlay, pushes the compressed video stream over the slower USB 2.0 link to the adapter, then the adapter has a decompression chip (much like an AirPlay receiver chip in a smart TV/Roku/etc) that turns the H.265 video into raw uncompressed HDMI.

I’m going to bet it actually comes down to the SoC not being fast enough.

USB 2.0 is 400mbps and 1080i broadcast is 20mbps with either 720p@10mbps, or 4xSD @ 5mbps each.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

I think at some point we’re going to have to recognize that Doom is very old and doesn’t require much processing power.

I don’t think anyone thinks it’s impressive that things have enough processing power to run a game from 1995, what’s impressive is getting arbitrary code to run on things that are supposed to be locked down and only run the code they’ve been designed to run

Doom just happens to be a fun thing to run to show you achieved that goal

 

[ArPe]

The only reason they resisted moving to USB for so long because lightning was a proprietary solution and they could earn more 💰💰💰. Thankfully the EU forced Apple to use USB-C like every other vendor. Better throughput, better connectivity, cheaper cables.

Nice theory.

Maybe you started using Macs for the first time in 2023 and don’t know Apple was the first laptop maker to go all in on USB-C, and that they developed Thunderbolt and USB standards with Intel, that the iPad Pro adopted USB-C as soon as possible, and that Apple was actually waiting to add ProRes recording before adding USB-C.

 

[ArPe]

Except….

Apple did co-invent USB-C. They do have tighter control, but they were intimately involved with the creation of USB-C.

Half the people who post online aren’t historians. They believe whatever some idiot journalist or YouTuber said for clicks and they roll with it. They keep rolling with it for years even when corrected.

 

[w.j.atr]

And yet there is still no Doom on the Vision Pro.

There is, just install iDOS3. Magic Keyboard useful.

 

[tifrato]

Sounds like Rule34 - if it exists (digitally), you can play Doom on it
I admired that Fax machine approach shown at 38C3: https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-dialing-into-the-past-rce-via-the-fax-machine-because-why-not/audio

 

[Daalseth]

I don’t think anyone thinks it’s impressive that things have enough processing power to run a game from 1995, what’s impressive is getting arbitrary code to run on things that are supposed to be locked down and only run the code they’ve been designed to run

Doom just happens to be a fun thing to run to show you achieved that goal

That’s a good point.

 

[MacAddict1978]

>Lightning does not have the bandwidth for transmitting HDMI, so Apple needed an adapter that would compress video from a connected Apple device, send it over the Lightning connection, and then decompress it into raw HDMI for viewing on a TV screen or display.

What an incredibly clunky kludge. I seriously wonder why Apple resisted moving to USB-C for so long.

Royalty payments and accessories revenue through a proprietary standard.
They tested this out with FireWire back in the day (Apple proprietary connector on universal tech) and while that failed, it gave them the playbook.

If not for myriad antitrust suits and legal issues, I doubt we would have USB-C now.

 

[MacAddict1978]

Except that Apple was already moving to USB-C when the EU Mafia showed their hand but yeah, yay EU.

No they were not.

Do not confuse USB-C for Thunderbolt on a mac with "moving towards USB-C" in iPads and iPhones.

The 2018 iPad Pro was the first to get it... but lightning couldn't manage video output, and it was a selling feature of the Pro model so they had no choice. A dongle for that device was not going to fly.

The 2020 Air was next, but at that time, the EU was already drafting universal standard rules they formally put out the following year and already hard at work targeting Apple. As was the US and others. When you see a company taken to court for antitrust behavior, there is usually years of pre-work behind it and it's never a secret to the company being targeted because they are being required to submit information during that process.

The 2020 Air with USB-C was Apple throwing a softball to see if they would strike out of run the base. They struck out because in September 2021 official actions were taken against them in the EU.

Do you think Apple would have fought so hard and spent so much money on lawyers initially if moving to USB-C was in their pipeline?

Finally, let's not forget that when Apple did start adopting USB-C, they deliberately created their owns cables with a chip in them. If you did not use the Apple approved (or licensed cable), your charging and data transferred speeds were slowed down by software in IOS as they continued to attempt to force proprietary cables on people. This got them a major slap down.
-Apple also did this when they added wireless charging (years and years after bargain Android phones had it) and still do. If it's not an Apple charger or approved (AKA licensed where Apple gets a fee from the third-party maker), your charging speed is throttled.

It's not the EU Mafia.... It's the Apple Mafia. Don't defend crappy behavior. It's in Apple's DNA to do these things and charge insane prices that we all pay because we want the user experience.

 

[fathergll]

Is that Pong running on those Macs? BTW I had the same G4 powermac with monitor 😂

Not at all. This is when Macs actually gamed. Thats Quake 3 era back then for Mac which was available for Mac before Windows. https://web.archive.org/web/20000229083216/http://macweek.zdnet.com/1999/04/25/register.html


The ponytail guy is John Carmack who developed Doom/Quake. Carmack was a Apple fan and develop Doom/Quake on NeXT computers which is the company Steve Jobs founded after he left Apple and then Apple bought NeXT when Jobs came back. Heck they had him doing a world premiere of Doom 3 at a Apple conference which was groundbreaking stuff back in 2001 with the id Tech 4 engine. Relationship went south during iPhone development over an argument about allowing developers native access to iPhone hardware and Carmack basically got blackballed to a degree.

 

[Acep]

Pet peeve. Article (and many posts) mistakenly describe this adapter as a dongle. Its is not - it is an adapter. Dongles were (are?) items that would plug into the computer, but not attach to anything else. I remember dongles for copy protection, Bluetooth, and other things. They were called that because they dangled off the computer like a dong. Sophomoric humor. A lot of people incorrectly use 'dongle' when they refer to an adapter. (I know language is fluid -- I'm old. Get off my lawn. ;-). Anyone else remember this?

 

[surferfb]

No they were not.

Do not confuse USB-C for Thunderbolt on a mac with "moving towards USB-C" in iPads and iPhones.

The 2018 iPad Pro was the first to get it... but lightning couldn't manage video output, and it was a selling feature of the Pro model so they had no choice. A dongle for that device was not going to fly.

The 2020 Air was next, but at that time, the EU was already drafting universal standard rules they formally put out the following year and already hard at work targeting Apple. As was the US and others. When you see a company taken to court for antitrust behavior, there is usually years of pre-work behind it and it's never a secret to the company being targeted because they are being required to submit information during that process.

The 2020 Air with USB-C was Apple throwing a softball to see if they would strike out of run the base. They struck out because in September 2021 official actions were taken against them in the EU.

Do you think Apple would have fought so hard and spent so much money on lawyers initially if moving to USB-C was in their pipeline?

Finally, let's not forget that when Apple did start adopting USB-C, they deliberately created their owns cables with a chip in them. If you did not use the Apple approved (or licensed cable), your charging and data transferred speeds were slowed down by software in IOS as they continued to attempt to force proprietary cables on people. This got them a major slap down.
-Apple also did this when they added wireless charging (years and years after bargain Android phones had it) and still do. If it's not an Apple charger or approved (AKA licensed where Apple gets a fee from the third-party maker), your charging speed is throttled.

It's not the EU Mafia.... It's the Apple Mafia. Don't defend crappy behavior. It's in Apple's DNA to do these things and charge insane prices that we all pay because we want the user experience.

It was abundantly clear Apple was moving to USB-C. Just look at the features on the Pro Phone - as you point out lightning can't manage video output, which is a recent selling feature of the pro phones. Just because they didn't move fast enough for your liking doesn't change that fact.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

I’m going to bet it actually comes down to the SoC not being fast enough.

USB 2.0 is 400mbps and 1080i broadcast is 20mbps with either 720p@10mbps, or 4xSD @ 5mbps each.

USB 2.0 is 480 Megabits per second.

HDMI 1.0 is 4.95 Gigabits per second. Compression wasn't even part of the standard early on. ATSC broadcast uses compression. The HDMI cable does not.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Maybe you should rewrite the Wikipedia page then, because it holds false information.

Here is also information about Apple rejecting the use of usb type c standard:

Regulations for compatibility​

edit
Further information: Radio Equipment Directive (2022)
In 2021, the European Commission proposed the use of USB-C as a universal charger.[98][99][100] On 4 October 2022, the European Parliament voted in favor of the new law, Radio Equipment Directive 2022/2380, with 602 votes in favor, 13 against and 8 abstentions.[101] The regulation requires that all new mobile phones, tablets, cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld video game consoles, portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, and earbuds sold in the European Union and supporting wired charging, would have to be equipped with a USB-C port and charge with a standard USB-C to USB-C cable by the end of 2024. Additionally, if these devices support fast charging, they must support USB Power Delivery. These regulations will extend to laptops by early 2026.[102] To comply with these regulations, Apple Inc. replaced its proprietary Lightning connector with USB-C beginning with the iPhone 15 and AirPods Prosecond generation, released in 2023.[103][failed verification] A first modified iPhone having USB-C connector was the result of a hack by Ken Pillonel.[104]

In late December 2024, new EU regulations took effect, mandating USB-C charging ports for all small and medium-sized electronic devices sold in the EU, with laptops to follow by 2026. These rules were aimed at reducing waste and saving €250 million annually for consumers. Apple, which initially opposed the changes, had since adopted USB-C for its products. Additionally, consumers can opt not to receive a new charger with their device.[105]

Apple rejecting it on cell phones has nothing to with them "not developing it" (which they did.) They wanted USB-C for computers, not phones.

 

[Atomicow]

No they were not.

Do not confuse USB-C for Thunderbolt on a mac with "moving towards USB-C" in iPads and iPhones.

The 2018 iPad Pro was the first to get it... but lightning couldn't manage video output, and it was a selling feature of the Pro model so they had no choice. A dongle for that device was not going to fly.

The 2020 Air was next, but at that time, the EU was already drafting universal standard rules they formally put out the following year and already hard at work targeting Apple. As was the US and others. When you see a company taken to court for antitrust behavior, there is usually years of pre-work behind it and it's never a secret to the company being targeted because they are being required to submit information during that process.

The 2020 Air with USB-C was Apple throwing a softball to see if they would strike out of run the base. They struck out because in September 2021 official actions were taken against them in the EU.

Do you think Apple would have fought so hard and spent so much money on lawyers initially if moving to USB-C was in their pipeline?

Finally, let's not forget that when Apple did start adopting USB-C, they deliberately created their owns cables with a chip in them. If you did not use the Apple approved (or licensed cable), your charging and data transferred speeds were slowed down by software in IOS as they continued to attempt to force proprietary cables on people. This got them a major slap down.
-Apple also did this when they added wireless charging (years and years after bargain Android phones had it) and still do. If it's not an Apple charger or approved (AKA licensed where Apple gets a fee from the third-party maker), your charging speed is throttled.

It's not the EU Mafia.... It's the Apple Mafia. Don't defend crappy behavior. It's in Apple's DNA to do these things and charge insane prices that we all pay because we want the user experience.

The first Mac with USB-C was released in 2015, less than a year after the USB-C spec was officially released.

Also, every USB-C cable that supports power delivery has an E-marker chip. And Apple has never throttled speed or power delivery when using a non-Apple cable. If you got lower speed or power, it’s because you were using a cheap cable that did not support higher speeds or enough power.

In addition, wireless charging has never been throttled. MagSafe was designed to support higher power than the the Qi standard. If you use a Qi charger, you can only charge at the max speed that Qi supports, and that has nothing to do with Apple.