China Mobile to Subsidize iPhone

[idannyb]

Blocked sites and Timing for iPhone in China

I've worked there for 2 years, that I have to say the internet is not banned except some illegal porno websites, I never experienced any problems with the websites I visited . it's just some malicious rumors say that china ban internet recently. it would be great if china mobile would brings in iphone

The Great Firewall is real 30,000 are employed full-time to monitor the Net in China ... many, many website are banned in China ... including iPhonAsia ... http://idannyb.wordpress.com/

I dared to write a post or two that were critical of TD-SCDMA and "boom" ... blocked in China.

FWIW here is a post I added on another site this a.m. related to a TD iPhone 3G in China
There have been a few understandable laments over timing of an “official” iPhone in China. A deal announcement could come anytime although distribution most likely won’t happen until early 2009.

As Rich stated earlier … this deal (albeit still just a rumor) is huge and should not be underestimated. It will have the support of China (nation/state) as it will help bolster their “indigenous” technology. As the Olympics demonstrated, when China gets behind something, the scale can be massive. Even for doubters out there (cough Wall Street), a minimum multi-million unit pre-sale to China Mobile (for inventory) is a likely and logical part of this deal.

FWIW … here are a few thoughts about the timing (why 2009):

1) Apple waited for the “right deal.”
2) HonHai needs to keep up with current model iPhone 3G production to meet huge world-wide demand.
3) Logistics - design/dev/test - necessary to deliver a TD-SCDMA Phone 3G for PRC and possibly South Korea. Apple will be twice cautious about test phase and will not rush out a “TD” iPhone 3G.

A bit more background …
Apple carefully surveyed the telecom landscape in China and IMHO smartly and rightly did not capitulate to China Mobile’s initial demands. The initial phase of China’s telecom industry restructuring has now been completed and the landscape has changed considerably. China's Ministry of Information Industry Technology (MIIT) has a new "hard-line" (bad cop) Director, Li Yizhong, who is enforcing the top down "indigenous technology" mandate, and apparently with particular vigor. China Mobile CEO, Wang Jianzhou, was called into an emergency meeting a couple of months back and was strongly rebuked for not paying enough attention to TD-SCDMA. China Mobile must make TD-SCDMA a rousing success. China Mobile had several strategies in place (limp along with TD-SCDMA until TD-LTE 4G is ready and obtain a W-CMDA 3G license), most of which have been shot down by China’s Ministries until they make serious headway with TD-SCDMA. MIIT has given China Mobile a bogey of one-hundred million (100,000,000 subscribers) all of whom will need a TD-SCDMA handset (China Mobile had only 52,000 by the end of July albeit they reported higher numbers). All TD-SCDMA handsets in China are being subsidized by China Mobile's parent CMCC (majority state owned). In other words TD-SCDMA is being subsidized by China.

Apple smartly saw these developments and waited. Now the leverage is with Apple. IMHO a “deal in principle” was concluded circa April and contracted sometime just before WWDC. The deal is to deliver a TD iPhone 3G to assist China and China Mobile with their mandate to make TD-SCDMA a success.

Here is an except from an August 5th iPhonAsia post re “timing” ….
Timing for a TD iPhone 3G? No sooner than Sept/Oct 2008 … More likely early 2009
The earliest possible distribution of an TD iPhone 3G would be late September or early October 2008. This timeline presumes a deal between Apple and China Mobile was agreed to in principle in Spring (circa April) and contracted soon thereafter.

A new model iPhone cannot simply be slapped together. This is a six to eighteen month process. With all of Apple’s iPhone engineering - design/dev and test teams - on a fasktrack schedule and with full cooperation of China Mobile engineers, a TD iPhone 3G might be ready six months from “go” (signed contract) date. Hence, if a deal was reached in early April, we are looking at the end of September or early October for release … at the earliest.
Based on ample public and non-public information, iPhonAsia believes that no deal with China Mobile was in place before March 2008. We are also confident that a deal with China Mobile has now been concluded - most likely in the weeks just before WWDC in mid June 2008. If a deal was not done until June and/or a more normal product development path is in progress, a more realistic timeframe for appearance of a TD iPhone 3G would be the year end 2008 or early 2009. An official “iPhone in China” announcement could of course come sooner, yet not likely more than a month or two ahead of any TD iPhone 3G formal launch as China MII would not want to shutdown current TD handset sales (largely China built OEMs).
Steve Jobs June 9, 2008 (post WWDC 2008 interview with CNBC’s Jim Goldman):
“The two big ones we just didn’t have a chance to get closed were Russia and China… and I think you’ll see those happen later this year… we have to get through the regulatory bodies in China, which we’re in the process of doing, and I think later on this year you’ll hear some announcements. Seventy (70) countries is a lot of countries and we’re launching 22 of the biggest on July 11th”
Given the overwhelming response to the next gen iPhone 3G, Apple and Foxconn, are devoting all of their resources to meeting the demand (Foxconn Building 800,000 iPhones A Week) for the current launch and forthcoming August 22nd launch. This focus will likely take precedence over any special build of a TD iPhone 3G. iPhonAsia is therefore setting our sights on an “end of year” 2008 or early 2009 for a TD iPhone 3G launch in the People’s Republic of China.
SIDEBAR: South Korea Telecom has also been working closely with China Mobile on TD-SCDMA. Apple has yet to make any announcements in the South Korea market which is largely walled off due to imposition of a WiPi protocol (Wireless Internet Platform for Interoperability), unique to SK. While iPhonAsia has no sources or insights to Apple negotiations in South Korea, it might make sense to address both the South Korea and China markets via a special production run of iPhone 3G.

 

[WindowsGuy]

there may or may not be negotiations between china mobile and apple regarding iphone, but this particular rumor is plain stupid; revenue sharing plans haven't been sticking point for apple for ages, none of the operators offering iphone 3g is sharing revenue.

second, there's no iphone 3g compatible 3g network in china to speak of and it will take a good while before there is. they're going to roll out their national 3g version (td-cdma), and that's not compatible with iphone. the 3g variant iphone requires will only be launched after td-cdma network is up and running. it's quite safe to not expect wcdma networks to launch in at least a year, and even after that it will take a good while before they are commonly available.

and third, chinese are extremely technology conscious, especially those who can afford iphone + monthly plan. for them, even if iphone would be launched next week in china, it'd lack the novelty factor.

The lack of 3G coverage with AT&T didn't stop Apple from releasing a phone in the USA and we've had no problems other than dropped calls, instable software & a complete lack of feedback from either AT&T or Apple.

 

[winterspan]

I've worked there for 2 years, that I have to say the internet is not banned except some illegal porno websites, I never experienced any problems with the websites I visited . it's just some malicious rumors say that china ban internet recently. it would be great if china mobile would brings in iphone

Haha! Are you freakin' joking? I don't know if you somehow had a different experience because of your nationality, citizen status, residence, etc but it is well known that China has the most extensive censorship of the internet in the world. This has been verified by countless thousands of individuals, journalists, reporters, state officials, etc both Chinese and foreign. Heck, the Chinese ADMIT that they have an enormous censorship network in place. topics censored in china:

- Foreign new media websites, including major newspapers, television networks, etc.

- Just about every blog service, personal website hosting service, social networking service

- Anything regarding human rights, human rights organizations, wikipedia topics, history, etc including
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
Reporters Without Borders
The Committee to Protect Journalists

- Religious material, most notoriously Falun Gong related.

- etc


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

 

[tinfai]

Haha! Are you freakin' joking? I don't know if you somehow had a different experience because of your nationality, citizen status, residence, etc but it is well known that China has the most extensive censorship of the internet in the world. This has been verified by countless thousands of individuals, journalists, reporters, state officials, etc both Chinese and foreign. Heck, the Chinese ADMIT that they have an enormous censorship network in place. topics censored in china:

- Foreign new media websites, including major newspapers, television networks, etc.

- Just about every blog service, personal website hosting service, social networking service

- Anything regarding human rights, human rights organizations, wikipedia topics, history, etc including
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
Reporters Without Borders
The Committee to Protect Journalists

- Religious material, most notoriously Falun Gong related.

- etc


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

If you're not speaking from first hand experience, your comments are mere conjecture. Except for a couple of weeks out of the year when I'm in the States, I've been in China at least a couple of days every week for the past 10 years. I've never once encountered a block on a website for material that I would normally look up were I in any other country. Mind you, I'm not looking up material on Falun Gong or Amnesty International - heck, I don't visit Amnesty's site from any country. However, I have no problems accessing the sites I'm normally interested in. For instance, this past Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I surfed all my usual news sites from my iPhone (with my China Mobile SIM card) including the Herald Tribune, the NY Times, LA Times, Reuters, Washington Post, CBS Mobile News, BBC, ESPN, Rolling Stone Mag's Wap site, MacWorld and even MacRumors Forums. All content was displayed as normal. In fact, I first read about Palin's VP candidacy from USA Today this past Sunday morning at 3am (Beijing time). The preceding weeks when I kept up with the Olympic coverage primarily through the NBC and Yahoo sites, there were occasional commentaries criticizing human right and local government issues in China. All this was available to the viewing public.

Now I'm not saying that there is no censorship -- in fact, I don't mind that they're censoring a lot of filth and crap I wouldn't want to be bothered with -- but it's not nearly as prevalent as the uninformed think it is.

NB: Oh, btw, this is my first post on this forum. While I'm not in China as I write this, interestingly, I, an occasional lurker in macrumor forum, signed up and registered while in China over the weekend.

 

[Lara F]

If you're not speaking from first hand experience, you're comments are mere conjecture. Except for a couple of weeks out of the year when I'm in the States, I've been in China at least a couple of days every week for the past 10 years. I've never once encountered a block on a website for material that I would normally look up were I in any other country. Mind you, I'm not looking up material on Falun Gong or Amnesty International - heck, I don't visit Amnesty's site from any country. However, I have no problems accessing the sites I'm normally interested in. For instance, this past Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I surfed all my usual news sites from my iPhone (with my China Mobile SIM card) including the Herald Tribune, the NY Times, LA Times, Reuters, Washington Post, CBS Mobile News, BBC, ESPN, Rolling Stone Mag's Wap site, MacWorld and even MacRumors Forums. All content was displayed as normal. In fact, I first read about Palin's VP candidacy from USA Today this past Sunday morning at 3am (Beijing time). The preceding weeks when I kept up with the Olympic coverage primarily through the NBC and Yahoo sites, there were occasional commentaries criticizing human right and local government issues in China. All this was available to the viewing public.

Now I'm not saying that there is no censorship -- in fact, I don't mind that they're censoring a lot of filth and crap I wouldn't want to be bothered with -- but it's not nearly as prevalent as the uninformed think it is.

FWIW, that's also been the experience of a non-native Chinese poster on another forum I go to (since the subject came up during the Olympics).

 

[happydude]

a product red iphone would be a whole new twist in china!!

 

[fellerchin]

Look at the fact before you claim yourself a title!!

Could you please state clearly who is the "rest of the world"? the whole population of EU plus america is 800000000, how dare you called yourself "the rest of the world"?? unless your "world" is different to anybody else!

Look at the fact, ok?

Interesting. I wonder how easy it will be to make a 3G chipset just for Td-Cdma. Will it be expensive, or just a simple change? Take note Chinese Government! : by using a different technology than the rest of the world, you are creating problems for your own people! When they are on international business (roaming), then will not be able to communicate as quickly as those they are doing business with and potential competitors. Your business people will not have a fair advantage. Heed the warning! If you are smart, you will use the same technology that THE REST OF THE WORLD is using ... remember, it is a GLOBAL economy now. Any attempts to isolate yourselves will only cause your people to be left behind. Yes, left behind.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Asouns:
"I've worked there for 2 years, that I have to say the internet is not banned except some illegal porno websites, I never experienced any problems with the websites I visited . it's just some malicious rumors say that china ban internet recently. it would be great if china mobile would brings in iphone"

I live and work here (3 years total now) and my experiences (and therefore my surfing patterns) are different from yours. It's true that I can access 95% of what I need. Restrictions have eased recently, so high profile sites like BBC (including Chinese BBC site, kudos for that) and even Amnesty (I visited it for the first time for the novelty) have been opened, but most other sites remain blocked, same as before. dannyb wordpress site is blocked, saft for safari site is blocked, usually anything with "blog" in address is blocked. I haven't bothered to search for the other no-no sites. The internet is censored in a scattered but very real way, and thats a fact and I expect access to some sites to disappear along with Beijings blue skies after the Paralympics have finished.

Yeah, I'm also waiting waiting waiting for iPhone here, we can both agree that sucks! Bu hao!

 

[suzerain]

Winterspan, I'm curious: how many times have you been to China and how long have you stayed here?

Haha! Are you freakin' joking? I don't know if you somehow had a different experience because of your nationality, citizen status, residence, etc but it is well known that China has the most extensive censorship of the internet in the world. This has been verified by countless thousands of individuals, journalists, reporters, state officials, etc both Chinese and foreign.

Polling friends and colleagues of mine...NGO workers, aid workers and individual residents of various places I've talked to, many agree that censorship is worse or just as bad in Viet Nam, Iran, United Arab Emirates, etc. and so on; not to mention closed off societies like Burma and North Korea, which have little or no access at all. Even Australia has just passed laws designed to block porn at the ISP level.

China certainly has a firewall in place, and the guy earlier who said there is "no censorship", or that censorship is limited to pr0n, is uninformed, but China is far from the worst.

Heck, the Chinese ADMIT that they have an enormous censorship network in place. topics censored in china:

- Foreign new media websites, including major newspapers, television networks, etc.

You're right, there have at times been cases of news networks being blocked, although at the moment I can't find one major foreign news outlet that's blocked, and actually aside from the BBC and news networks that cater specifically to Taiwan I'm at a loss to come up with more examples from the past. The BBC was blocked for years, and was unblocked before the Olympics. Will it be re-blocked in the future? Perhaps. It's worth noting that in my time here (now over two years), I have never experienced a block of any American or continental European news outlet, including CNN, NBC, Fox, Le Monde, Deutsche Welle, etc.

- Just about every blog service, personal website hosting service, social networking service

Hmm...is blogspot a major blog service? It's not blocked. WordPress.com is. The blog services are the ones the government here fears the most (more so than news organizations you mention above), because they do fear them as organizational tools for people organizing against the government. But they're not on perma-block. They seem to become blocked and unblocked from time to time depending on the content coming from the domains (of course it's impossible to know the real reason).

The government tends to block things they fear will lead to their downfall, essentially, as well as some "protect the children" nonsense like porn (although that seems to not be as big a priority).

Social networking services? Hmm...facebook, myspace and friendster are all accessible. What are the major social networking services that are blocked, winterspan?

- Anything regarding human rights, human rights organizations, wikipedia topics, history, etc including
Amnesty International
Human Rights Watch
Reporters Without Borders
The Committee to Protect Journalists

Here you are right on. Wikipedia is presently unblocked, but it has been blocked in the past, and the other sites you mention have been or are blocked. Of course, it's another article entirely, but those sites are all funded by western agencies and/or governments that are fairly biased against China. (For instance, Human Rights Watch would condemn China for putting journalists in jail, but they don't condemn the Unites States as strongly for invading countries and blowing up Arabs whenever it feels like it. That's a bigger discussion, of course, but again, the Chinese government is protecting its interests.)

- Religious material, most notoriously Falun Gong related.

Calling Falun Gong a religious organization is like calling the Branch Davidians in Waco a religious organization. From what I understand, the Falun Gong leader specifically threatened to kill a provincial leader, and demonstrated his power by directing some followers to set themselves on fire and burn to death in Tiananmen Square. When he did this, he apparently crossed the line from religious organization to political one, and so it falls under the same category: threat to the government (sensing a theme?).

Other, more legitimate religious material is not blocked, as far as I can tell: Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. There are a lot of religions practiced here, both officially and unofficially. The government really doesn't care unless they become political.

My point here is not to defend the Chinese government; damn sure they do lots of bad stuff (just like any government). It just gets annoying when people like winterspan go around claiming to know all these "facts" about China by citing potentially biased reports from Web sites, and little more.

The Chinese government (like any other) is concerned with primarily one goal: to protect its own power and interests. They do use censorship to accomplish this. (Much like the American government not allowing news outlets in the USA to show the coffins of dead soldiers returning from Iraq, for example.) Is it "right"? Of course not. But I think if you actually came here instead of just reading Wikipedia articles, you might be surprised that it't not nearly as repressive as the Western media make it out to be.

Furthermore, getting around the Great Firewall (the official name is the "Golden Shield", actually) is not exactly rocket science: you run a proxy. I run one when I want to read something from Human Rights Watch, for example, and guess what? The Chinese people do, too. So therefore, despite their millions of dollars, and all that effort, nothing is really blocked, anyway.

Yeah, I'm also waiting waiting waiting for iPhone here, we can both agree that sucks! Bu hao!

Just wanted to say, back on topic, that there are estimated to be already hundreds of thousands or perhaps more than a million (unlocked) iPhones in China. I see them often, and they can be bought at the electronics market near my house, so I think it's just that China Mobile figures that if they're being sold here anyway, they might as well get a cut.

 

[JoeyRamone]

The only difference will be if you go over your usage allotment, you're sent to a work camp and then a reeducation center.

And join all those Chinese Olympic athletes and their families who didn't win a gold medal...

As I write this from China I can tell you there is a hell of a lotta Internet censorship here in China - and not just xxx sites. Here in China do a search for something like Tienanmen Square and all that comes up is a historical reference as a tourist landmark.

Most proxies get blocked. When the Chinese government gets mad at a company, let's say Google all requests to Google route the user to Baidu. (Chinese search engine.) Many US Government sites are blocked - but interestingly enough www.cia.gov works just fine...

On a recent trip to the USA a person at my company asked me to bring her back as many I Phones as I could get. I disappointed her by bringing none for her. However an Australian colleague of mine got 2 when he went to Sidney. He has a contract with the company there and they allowed him to buy 2 while AT&T said had to sign a 2 year contract to get one.

Locked phone not a problem here. Lots of little stores here hook them up to a computer and unlock them quickly and for about $2...

 

[inkiboo]

I've worked there for 2 years, that I have to say the internet is not banned except some illegal porno websites, I never experienced any problems with the websites I visited . it's just some malicious rumors say that china ban internet recently. it would be great if china mobile would brings in iphone

That is simply not true; I have been out to China nine times in the last two years and only in the last 6 months coming up to the Olympics as the Internet even been remotely useable. It used to take 3 minutes to load our company webpage and VPN would never work.

Things are better now but certain sites, mainly involving Tibet and democracy, will not load.

 

[c6h6benzene]

The Great Firewall is real 30,000 are employed full-time to monitor the Net in China ... many, many website are banned in China ... including iPhonAsia ... http://idannyb.wordpress.com/

I dared to write a post or two that were critical of TD-SCDMA and "boom" ... blocked in China.

Just a note that every blog ends in wordpress.com has been blocked...or in the Chinese way of saying, harmonized.

At least none of the wordpress blog addresses posted in this thread can be loaded here...similarly, blogger.com blogs are also getting this threatment.

 

[orb]

I've worked there for 2 years, that I have to say the internet is not banned except some illegal porno websites, I never experienced any problems with the websites I visited . it's just some malicious rumors say that china ban internet recently. it would be great if china mobile would brings in iphone

I am in China right now, and I can assure you that there are many sites that I am unable to access - particularly blogs and podcasts. When I switch on the VPN, miraculously I'm able to access everything. When I cross over the border into Hong Kong, miraculously everything seems to work fine. Hmmm....