You are kidding right? I somehow knew you would come in and spread this FUD. Apple is using older S-IPS panels. There are better displays to be had using these newer panels from LG. They are:
20": NEC LCD20WMGX2 using the latest LG AS-IPS LM201WE2
23": Dead. LG isn't making 23" IPS panels anymore.
24": Apples own 24" iMac uses an H-IPS panel. As does the NEC LCD2490WUXi both have the LM240WU2 panel.
30": LG has two newer IPS panels with better specs than the current 30" ACD. Dell is using the LM300WQ5 in their new 3008WFP. LG also has the
LM300WQ3, which also has better specs than the current 30" ACD which is using the LM300W01.
HP is also using the LM300WQ1, a newer panel than the Apple 30" which is why it superior. You pretend as if it is some sort of feat for HP to have done it. See what happens when NEWER tech is used. Your statement about HP is proof that Apple is behind.
http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd200_j_e.jsp
I know you think you are the resident panel guru, but what you are saying is absolute bullocks. The panels in the current ACDs are very very old. As I just pointed out to you, they are very technologically out of date.
And your talk of calibrated LUTs. This is a feature you grossly overstate. When Apple starts putting in 12-bit LUTs like NEC does, we can talk. The fact of the matter is ACDs are outdated and are only good at looking pretty.
Sure pricewise they may be OK because they use IPS panels, but that is because they have been pushing the same panels for a long time. The least they can do is drop the price if they are going to give us the same panels over and over again.
Now please, tell me how my statements are incorrect. I expected more from you in regards to your knowledge, but you are clearly only good at pushing around buzz words to make yourself seem intelligent in this area. Your lack of research into newer panels suggests otherwise. And I hope people take note.
Man, I am not gonna dance with a Stat Junkie like you who obviously has little real world understanding as to how "new" technology relates to color and the management of color for Print, Video, and Web Development.
I have many years experience -- like how about 20 -- in understanding how "new" versus "old" technology affects color gamut and color consistency.
This is important when one considers what one is going to use a monitor for.
A print color gamut is far different from a web color gamut and from an NTSC color gamut. For the latter two, you then have to compare how operating systems and browsers affect color. And I am not just talking about colors your eye can see -- I am also talking about 1) Brightness, 2) Contrast, 3) Screen Cast (ie gloss/matte), 4) On-Screen Controls or lack of.
You are great at citing links to "new" IPS panels. What you do not understand, rather what you don't have the experience and depth of knowledge to discuss properly, is HOW these new panels and their "new" features affect things like gamut and calibration, for starters.
When I said Apple's displays were state-of-the-art, I meant it. I still do. An IPS panel is superior -- in an old or new iteration -- to the majority of lower cost TN, and PVA/MVA panels. You are just looking for a fight. Reread your original post, and your second post -- you yourself recommend an S-IPS panel. I merely responded that Apple's ACD's were still in vouge for SWOP work (lookup and learn what SWOP means). Period. I am not going to invest the time to teach you why ACD's are still relevant. Do your own work. It involves viewing angle, calibration, brightness, contrast ratio, and consistency, just for starters. This link will help you out.
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php
Next. You cannot have a honest discussion of monitors without talking about Lookup Tables and how they relate to colorsync and the operating system--you brushing aside my reference to this area only indicates your lack of depth in understanding how gamut, drivers, and color management and profiles work. And how VITALLY important this really is to designers. And how Apple is the leader in out-of-the box calibration (mean without using after-market calibration) among low to mid-range monitors. For example, the Color Profile on the HP LP3065 is absolutely terrible despite it being "newer."
Finally, How do you know -- that I did not know -- this HP LP3065 uses a newer panel? Wrong, of course, I did. I have three 30" displays in my studio. I purchased each one for a specific purpose. The ACD 30" is our print monitor. The Dell our base web testing monitor. The HP our broadcast monitor. AND I CLEARLY said that HP was SUPERIOR to the ACD. I did not act in Shock (how in the heck did you INFER that?) -- I was making a point about how great and SUPERIOR this monitor is with my use of caps -- that's pretty clear!
The HP has extreme brightness and contrast ratio and a very high gamut.
However, it does not nearly calibrate as well as the ACD. After calibration the NEW HP has a higher SWOP color Delta E than the ACD. New Technology is not always better. But don't take my word for it. Learn from this Anandtech article why NEWER S-IPS panels do not calibrate as well as older ones (see the the section on "calibrated results"
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2950
*Guess What?
Our ACD 23 and 30" have LOWER Delta E than the NEWER S-IPS panels you spout on about. Learn, Learn, Learn.
Here is a link form a popular photography site that talks a bit about why the S-IPS panel in the ACD (Phillps LM300201) is superior to the NEWER one used in the Samsung 305T IN THE AREAS OF PHOTOGRAPHY.
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=707602
Here is a link to the Godfather of all monitors, Karl Lang, to help you get started in learning that there is more to evaluating monitor technology that spouting off about something being "new" and then assuming "better."
This article is a few years old but the section on Gamut, Bits and LUTS is VERY valid right now, today:
http://www.outbackphoto.com/tforum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=1700
Sure NEC uses 12bit Luts, so does EIZO -- BUT I was very clear in my initial response to you that I was talking about monitors priced at or below the ACD's -- Have you priced a 12bit IPS NEC or EIZO lately? Thought so. And then there is the entire thing about the Mac OS and Photoshop having to interpolate up to those 12bit LUTs. Not all users are sophisticated enough to calibrate monitors of that complexity. I ask you, for THAT user are the 12bit NEC's really better from a highly tuned ACD 23 or 30? Not in my studio. No stat junkies allowed to achieve greatness here.
Your assumption of new IPS panels being better, begs a lot of questions that have to be answered first: Like 1) Intended Use, 2) Lighting Conditions, 3) SWOP Certification Legal Concerns for Graphic Artists, Printers and Photographers, 4) Pixel Response, 5) Scaling and Resolution, 6) HDCP needs, and more. A lot of new monitors are made for gamers, and video, Not for Print and web.
When I responded to this user's general question about ACD versus others, I was comparing the ACD's to cheaper PVA, MVA and TN panels not to related IPS panels. Next time I will be more specific. I responded to your likewise general and wrong claim that ACD's were out of date. The user was obviously looking at lower end monitors from his post.
Your response is just as guilty of being too general, as was my response, in making an uninformed claim that Apple Displays are "outdated."
I NEVER defend Apple technology on Price -- I agree with you that they have been pushing an overly focused product line: If you have REALLY been reading my posts on monitors you would know that I have been calling for Apple to FORK its display line into 1) consumer 2) Print Pro and 3) Web/Broadcast.
My response was a perfectly general and acceptable response to your general and imprecise scalding! You are looking for a fight.
Please -- spend some time in a studio -- any studio -- be it Print, Photo, Web, or Broadcast. Actually do some real work, deliverable work, to color critical clients, then come back and add to this discourse.
Repeat and Return.