It can be a homicide, but until they charge someone with homicide there is no need to assume innocence or anything like that.
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Cincinnati Cop Beating
- Thread starter tomf87
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oh of course, my point wasn't to blame the police, just to say that for the record his death has been ruled a homicide.
a cop once told me that the law allows them to use 1 degree of force greater than that used against them.
So, if you try to hit a cop barehanded, he/she can hit you with a weapon. Thus, if you keep trying to hit a cop, he/she can keep hitting you with a weapon. Or, if you pull a gun, they are allowed to shoot you. These officers did exactly what they were supposed to do. This was a "by the book" way to deal with the situation, and the guy died. NOT THE COPS PROBLEM.
also, this guy was obviously a racist, but he'll take credit for being a caring, compassionate son/brother/father or something like it. Meanwhile, the cops will be called racists for doing there job. Our countries media blows.
So, if you try to hit a cop barehanded, he/she can hit you with a weapon. Thus, if you keep trying to hit a cop, he/she can keep hitting you with a weapon. Or, if you pull a gun, they are allowed to shoot you. These officers did exactly what they were supposed to do. This was a "by the book" way to deal with the situation, and the guy died. NOT THE COPS PROBLEM.
also, this guy was obviously a racist, but he'll take credit for being a caring, compassionate son/brother/father or something like it. Meanwhile, the cops will be called racists for doing there job. Our countries media blows.
This is a bit of an extremist view, but I say once you swing at a cop you lose the right to call brutality. That said, these cops did everything they should to subdue a man who attacked them and resisted arrest. His bad heart, his problem. I feel sorry for these officers for media BS as a result of doing their jobs and dealing with a scumbag (swinging at a cop makes you scum, no doubt about it).
I had a few run-ins with cops when i was young (all small stuff like drinking at loud parties, etc) and found that the cops were almost always decent to me if I treated them with respect. I found that some of them could be the nicest people I ever met, if I showed that I understood they had a job to do and probably didn't want the hassle of filling out paperwork if I cause trouble. This has even let me off the hook where I should have had citations (drinking under age, etc).
Conversely, I have had friends run themselves right into the ground with tickets or arrest by patronizing cops.
Again, I think nature removed an unhealthy man on drugs by causing his heart to fail during a period of high stress. This guy caused his own death.
Dan
I had a few run-ins with cops when i was young (all small stuff like drinking at loud parties, etc) and found that the cops were almost always decent to me if I treated them with respect. I found that some of them could be the nicest people I ever met, if I showed that I understood they had a job to do and probably didn't want the hassle of filling out paperwork if I cause trouble. This has even let me off the hook where I should have had citations (drinking under age, etc).
Conversely, I have had friends run themselves right into the ground with tickets or arrest by patronizing cops.
Again, I think nature removed an unhealthy man on drugs by causing his heart to fail during a period of high stress. This guy caused his own death.
Dan
Which media are you talking about. All the papers I've been reading have been balanced or pro-police in this action. Here is the lead paragraph from the Washington Post:
"A coroner issued a ruling of "homicide" today in the racially charged case of a 350-pound black man who died after a police beating outside a Cincinnati fast-food restaurant, but he cautioned that this did not necessarily mean police used excessive force against the man, who had an enlarged heart and intoxicating levels of drugs in his system. "
I don't think "racially charged" equals calling the cops racist. And pointing out the drugs and heart condition is suggesting the cops are not to blame. Or are you just assuming the media will respond as you portray it? The paper is reporting from the guys mother (I think) that he was a jolly, fat guy and harmless. But most people will recognize that as being something that mothers will say no matter what. Just as neighbors claim that serial killers are "nice, a little quiet". Anyway, just curious why you're venting on the media in this case.
He was a good old fat jolly fella on Angel Dust. That happens to make him violent. I see it as an entirely justified use of force. It may not be pretty, and it may have led to his death, but this is what happens when you:
1) Do drugs.
2) Do drugs on the street.
3) Disobey police.
4) Attack the police.
Not to mention be in poor health to begin with before you started doing drugs, attacking cops, etc.
It's a sorry thing that he died, but no one is responsible for his death but himself.
The autopsy shows bruises on the legs from the batons. Hardly fatality causing injuries if you ask me. If they wanted to kill that guy it would have taken one hit with a baton to the back of his neck. Or hell, why not shoot the guy? Seriously all you people who think these officers used lethal force need to get your facts straight. Hittling a man behind the knees to make him fall to the ground is not a way to effectively take someone's life.
You think if it was a 400 lb white guy hitting a cop all doped up on PCP and Coke this would even be news worthy?
Of course not. This is a media stirred up frenzy. It's crap. A black guy gets beat down by a cop AFTER attacking the cop and it's police brutality. It's racism. If it was a white guy getting beat down by a black cop you'd hear the crickets chirping.
There is no organization more racist in this country that the blood sucking leeches in the media.
Of course not. This is a media stirred up frenzy. It's crap. A black guy gets beat down by a cop AFTER attacking the cop and it's police brutality. It's racism. If it was a white guy getting beat down by a black cop you'd hear the crickets chirping.
There is no organization more racist in this country that the blood sucking leeches in the media.
The fact of the matter is, the cops probably never would've responded this harshly if a politician/CEO/or other influential person took a swing at them while they were on PCP. Imagine replacing this 400lb black guy with George Bush, would the cops have done the same thing? most definitely not and that would be discriminatory action.
the man was 400 lbs of weight that couldnt feel pain and wanted to hurt someone. How can you even make such a copout and say that this is discriminatory towards the blackman.
I agree with tazo. For one you say "the cops probably never..." which indicates speculation.
I went for a couple of ride-a-longs with the Cincinnati Police in District 1 and District 5. On one of the runs in District 5, we were chasing an individual who was running because he was selling narcotics. The guy was white and he put up a fight. The officers drew their batons, and with a few blows to him, he gave up and was arrested.
No matter who it is, if you take a swing at a police officer, you expect them to respond with force. Would you take a swing at a police officer who is asking what is wrong?
Also, saying George Bush would get high on cocaine, PCP, and methanol, be out driving around by himself (no body guards), and then fight with police at a White Castle, is a little extreme, don't you think?
Now his family is saying that he was trying to give up 
I'm sorry, but unless you were actually there, you can't make that call. Its a sad state of affairs and its going to only get worse.
D
I'm sorry, but unless you were actually there, you can't make that call. Its a sad state of affairs and its going to only get worse.D
The reason it's such big news is because of all the racial unrest Cincinati has seen over the last few years. There was real fear that this could spark another round of violence in the city. I think the fact that is hasn't is testimony to the fact that most people see this as a justified use of force. The only people who are really pushing the racial issue are the ones who want some air time on TV. This incident doesn't have the same level of ambiguity that the video of that cop slamming a handcuffed teen facefirst onto the trunk of his cruiser.
This guy took a swing at a cop. On camera. All bets are off at that point.
This guy took a swing at a cop. On camera. All bets are off at that point.
It is trully a sad situation. I feel sorry for the cops that are undergoing such scrutiny. They were just doing there job. We need to stand up for the police, every day they put their life on the line for us. The media is wrong by not showing the whole tape.
i am not sure about "reports," but it sure is implied news. if you see the video clip on TV ALL THE TIME, where a black guy is on the ground and a bunch of police officers wielding batons down on him, it won't really matter what the news "reports."
add in the fact the guy died from the beatings later on and you will have a whole lot of misinformed people who will basically put this case into the mold of violent cops beating and killing unarmed black man.
the fact such a clip is shown each and every time the news is reported is unnecessary, gratuitous, sensationalism and irresponsible. they just want to get the image in your head over and over and over again for the sheer shock value. do you see them putting up a slide with the other facts about the guy, like he was on drugs (PCP and cocaine) and he attacked the police?
media has its part in spreading the paranoia and ignorance/prejudices. i will not give them the benefit of my doubt until they change some things.
I basically agree with you here. The showing of the clip is sensationalistic. I guess I feel like in this situation, while not showing a slide of the guy snorting cocaine, they have been careful to say he was on drugs, that his death, while triggered by the cops beating on him, was a pre-existing condition that meant he died from the application of less than lethal force, and that he lunged at the cops at the start.
I was responding to this from navyintel "It's crap. A black guy gets beat down by a cop AFTER attacking the cop and it's police brutality. It's racism. There is no organization more racist in this country that the blood sucking leeches in the media." and this from kuyu "Meanwhile, the cops will be called racists for doing there job. Our countries media blows."
There is no doubt that the cops actions are being viewed as racist (although that opinion seems to be subsiding as more details come out), but I differentiate between the media and the people making those claims.
hmm...
one thing that has bothered me about this country (USA) is that the word "racism" is such a strong trump card for everything. it's almost a "death" card.
it's also very loosely defined/used and the threat of being called a "racist" has prevent many intelligent (non-racist, IMO) discussions from taking place.
white cops beating up on a black man is NOT racist.
white cops beating up DIFFERENTLY (than they normally would) on a black man because he's black is racist.
white man calling black man by some offensive name is no more racially offensive than the reverse nor is it any less racially offensive than a black man calling another black man by the same name.
another example:
SAT test showing some difference in the mean scores for white students and black students DOES NOT make SAT test racist.
only when SAT test committee can be found to have manipulated the questions to make them harder for particular race can SAT be accused of being racist.
just because the end result shows some division along the race line does not make
the original intention racist...
[end little rant]
one thing that has bothered me about this country (USA) is that the word "racism" is such a strong trump card for everything. it's almost a "death" card.
it's also very loosely defined/used and the threat of being called a "racist" has prevent many intelligent (non-racist, IMO) discussions from taking place.
white cops beating up on a black man is NOT racist.
white cops beating up DIFFERENTLY (than they normally would) on a black man because he's black is racist.
white man calling black man by some offensive name is no more racially offensive than the reverse nor is it any less racially offensive than a black man calling another black man by the same name.
another example:
SAT test showing some difference in the mean scores for white students and black students DOES NOT make SAT test racist.
only when SAT test committee can be found to have manipulated the questions to make them harder for particular race can SAT be accused of being racist.
just because the end result shows some division along the race line does not make
the original intention racist...
[end little rant]
From what I saw of the video, it appeared that the cops were doing their best to avoid hitting him in the head. For that alone, I give them the benefit of the doubt.
They were trying to subdue a very dangerous and strong man. Force was necessary. There's nothing racial about it.
They were trying to subdue a very dangerous and strong man. Force was necessary. There's nothing racial about it.
To be honest, if any one person was biased in this situation, it was obviously the victim when he called the police officer "little debbie, white boy, redneck" before lunging at the officer.
I love how the family says he was not violent when he attacked an officer of the law on tape and they see it with their own eyes. People should take the consequences of their own actions. He may be a good guy in the fact that he helped others out, but video tapes do not lie (unless altered).
I love how the family says he was not violent when he attacked an officer of the law on tape and they see it with their own eyes. People should take the consequences of their own actions. He may be a good guy in the fact that he helped others out, but video tapes do not lie (unless altered).
But, most grandmothers are going to say that "he was a good boy" and "he would never hurt anybody." I think we need to disregard some of the things that grandmothers and mothers say. I can't remember, but did they interview his father. My father would've said "they shoulda hit his punk ass in the head and killed him faster, attacking cops like that". Okay, maybe not that extreme, but you get the point, right?
He may normally have very well been a good guy. We (I, anyway) don't know his history. How did he behave when he wasn't on drugs? What in his life caused him to turn to drugs? Maybe he was a very nice guy, most of the time.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending him. From what I saw, the police were entirely justified to use the force that they used. I didn't see anything that looked like they wanted to kill him, or even injure him. The simply wanted him to comply. Don't comply, here's a little pain, and another chance. Repeat until they comply, or unfortunately, die. I am 100% behind the cops, I just don't like for grannies to be critisized for doing what grannies do.