When I asked for complaints, I was referring to links to comments made on this site, not paraphrasing something that you heard/read. If those type of complaints are as common as some claim, it should be pretty easy to find one.
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Class Action Lawsuit Accuses Apple of Crippling iPhone 4s With iOS 9 Update
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I agree with this lawsuit.
Ended up updating my iPad 2 and it now is basically unusable. I knew from reading reviews that performance would take a hit, but I updated after the last update which supposedly fixed a lot of the performance issues on the older devices.
Ended up updating my iPad 2 and it now is basically unusable. I knew from reading reviews that performance would take a hit, but I updated after the last update which supposedly fixed a lot of the performance issues on the older devices.
The post I replied to argued that an OS X upgrade that Apple doesn't recommend for an old Mac is the same as iOS 9 on the iPhone 4S even though the user has no choice of downgrading the iPhone if they don't like the update while the Mac can be downgraded to any version it ever had installed at any time. Simple as that.
I'm not saying the plaintiff was forced to upgrade. I'm saying the plaintiff was forced to STAY on iOS 9, which is different from the Mac, completely true, and not debatable.
iOS 9.2 on my iPad 2 is quite usable. There are more threads available in the iOS 9 forum.
First off, it was a joke, and a kinda cute one at that. No need to get hostile, but I guess I should expect no less these says.
But while we're in the subject of debatability, also not debatable is the fact that 4+ year old hardware probably won't run a just-released operating system well. Not exactly a military-grade secret. Neither is the fact that Apple has never supported downgrading iOS. This is stated by Apple. It's common knowledge in support forums. It's common knowledge at the water cooler. Google is your friend. And it's just common sense. These plaintiffs are watching four generations of iPhone pass them by and it never once occurs to them to look into the consequences of upgrading iOS? Please. I'll let you know when I stop crying for them.
And btw, they can buy an iPhone 4s on eBay for less than $100 if they really want to cling to outdated tech. I wonder what they feel their time, effort, and missed work (assuming they work) suing Apple are worth. And if they succeed, which they won't, they'll score an iTunes gift card and more legalese for us to read before the next iOS upgrade. Oh yes, let's not forget a huge payout for all the lawyers. Perfect.
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Again. That's not my experience. Everything is painfully slow. Does it technically 'work', yes. But it's aggravating enough that I want to look at upgrading - which is the heart of the lawsuit matter. I'm not necessarily one of the those conspiracy theorists saying Apple is doing this on purpose to drive sales, but they should have done a better job indicating the impact to the older devices (they should probably have not allowed it to install on an iPad 2 at all) - or alternatively, give users a way to reinstall the previous OS.
A joke in what way? It looked like nothing more than a challenge to what I said.
Here we go again with this myopic view from people here about what the general user expects from Apple. You want them to look more deeply into what iOS 9 might do to their phones? Without having actually ever used iOS 9, they may go do some research and see this:
Which is what the case is actually about (or it should be).
You seem to think they're just suing because the phones were slowed down, which itself wouldn't be a good reason to sue. The iPhone 4 was slowed down with iOS 7 and a lawsuit wouldn't have been warranted because there is that expectation that old phones don't handle new software as well, as you said.
The difference here is that Apple promised the opposite. They touted speed and optimization as a major feature of iOS 9 and for that to be completely untrue for iPhone 4S users (and actually all iOS 9 devices) is blatant false advertising.
I've already had people say the 4S doesn't apply because it doesn't support Metal, but Apple's page doesn't have any note that says only the 5s or later supports it. Not even their dedicated Metal page on their developer site mentions that only A7 devices take advantage of it.
I don't know why you're telling me that Apple not allowing iOS downgrades is not news as if I thought it was. You should be telling that to the guy who thinks that suing over a Mac slowing down after an update is the same situation as for an iPhone.
You also say Apple has never actually allowed iOS downgrades when the actual fact is they used to allow downgrades for the iPhones 3GS and earlier. They actually still allow those devices to downgrade to earlier versions and somehow, Earth still exists even with that being possible.
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I'm torn, because while I think users should have this choice, this scheduled phasing out of older devices (5 years after all - a long life for a smartphone!) allows developers to move forward without being mired in the past forever. The phone will become ~obsolete either way, whether or not it's running a newer version of iOS. If you force it to stay on an older version of iOS you'll be forced to use older versions of apps as well - not an ideal situation.
We all know that running e.g. A Windows 3 machine today is highly impractical (lack of web browsers, printer support, etc.) even if it's still running the exact same software that was adequate in 1992.
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While the iPad 2 is not the speed demon my 6s is, it's fine for what it is; surfing, emails, streaming, music, showing photos and videos. Then there is the integration with my 6s that surprised me, text messages from my 6s and having the iPad receive a phone call. I use the iPad 2 frequently and am glad some of the issues from iOS 8 were fixed.
Well, yep. I do this for Mac OS upgrades as well. (I also make a habit of never upgrading to version x.0 of an OS. Ever. It's an operating system, not the Notes app. Let the early adopters be the beta testers. This is due diligence.) My aging father texts me to ask if he should upgrade iOS yet. Not a stroke of genius to check out the possible consequences of upgrading old equipment. The 4s is the very oldest device on Apple's list of iOS9-compatible devices. Is it unreasonable for that to trigger caution? Myopia (near-sightedness, short view) has nothing to do with it. Fancy word fail. In fact, it's hypermetropic (far-sighted, long view) to realize you have long-outdated equipment and therefore to plan for a major system software install with a little bit of universally well-advised research.
Well, no, not completely. And no, not all iOS9 devices. The data you've selectively posted may show a performance hit with iOS. How 'bout these reports?
- iPhoneHacks: Mixed picture. iOS 9 slower startup (but not crippling) on 4s, faster on 5, 5s, & 6. iOS9 apps launch a teeny bit slower but web browsing & WiFi are faster under iOS9. Are they wrong?
- iAppleBytes: Yes, it was iOS beta 5, but the next release was the GM, so it's close. Slightly faster iOS9 boot, better Geekbench scores (single & multi core). Way off the mark?
- BGR: Mixed picture. iOS9 still the winner for browsing & WiFi, even on the 4s. iOS8 had slightly better Geekbench scores. For the 4s, "iOS 9 might not improve the overall experience very much." Didn't find iOS9 crippled them. Are they part of an Apple Conspiracy To Deceive?
And even in all these videos, the 4s isn't incapacitated, is it? Even in this thread, there are people who've upgraded older equipment to iOS9 and remained workable, exactly as the videos show.
Well, yeah, there's that graphic you really dig. This is a smoking gun? Says that iOS9 uses Metal to deliver that stuff. Still true. No false claim there. I suppose somewhere there's someone who thinks that "Metal" refers to the metal in their iPhone casing and will feel totally misled. Maybe there's someone who assumes that Metal is a feature in all iPhones (assumptions don't usually prevail in a class action). If this lawsuit results in a footnote on that "Faster and more responsive" graphic you've posted here about 4 times (twice in a one of your 30 posts in this thread - good gracious) that specifies something about devices with Metal support, I suppose we'll all be better off.Without having actually ever used iOS 9, they may go do some research and see this:
I've already had people say the 4S doesn't apply because it doesn't support Metal, but Apple's page doesn't have any note that says only the 5s or later supports it.
Look, here it is:
- Plaintiffs installed current OS on 4-generation-old equipment.
- Easy evidence that the OS can work on their equipment (see videos). Theirs doesn't, at least not well. By definition then, this is not a universal problem.
- Apple explicitly states that Metal is needed for many (but not all) iOS9 optimization features. Unknown whether or not plaintiffs knew or disregarded this. Is it the basis for legal action that they didn't also explicitly list which devices can utilize that API? I guess the courts will decide.
- Apple does not explicitly state that iOS installs aren't downgradeable once they stop signing the downgrade version. However, they also don't mislead by stating they are. This is also not novel. For years Apple has been using OS signatures to limit downgrades. Is it the basis for legal action that the plaintiffs didn't know this? I guess the courts will decide.
- Abundant evidence on Apple's support site that it can't be done. Widespread press coverage that Apple stopped signing iOS 8.4.1 on 9/30/2015.
Well, no. My joke about the iMac didn't quote you at all. Hadn't read your posts. No idea who you were. Looking back over this topic, you seem pretty ready to pounce over feeling "challenged." To quote Ricky Gervais, "Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right." Why don't we all kick back, switch to decaf, and debate something nice and vanilla like Hunter's HomeKit ceiling fans.
These folks with iPhone 4s must need to reset their phones or something. I have the latest iOS on my iPhone 4s and it works just fine. I've also noted improved battery life.
My biggest reason for looking forward to a new iPhone is for more storage myself. Naturally other features and improved speed will be nice but iOS is certainly not driving me to buy a new device. I'm looking forward to a larger screen too.
My biggest reason for looking forward to a new iPhone is for more storage myself. Naturally other features and improved speed will be nice but iOS is certainly not driving me to buy a new device. I'm looking forward to a larger screen too.
So what would your response be to Apple acknowledging the issue and offering the opportunity to downgrade?
You mean this?
Of course you need to scroll down a bit, so it is not like in your face, but it is right there!
You claim it is not written anywhere even in dev site yet i see it clearly in the chart and you do not need to be a developer to access that page!
Then there is the unofficial info on Wikipedia wich altough "unreliable" cites :
"Since June 8, 2015, Metal is available for iOS devices using the Apple A7 or later"
Has anyone around here with a 4s or iPad 2 done this?
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/06/28/odysseusota-downgrade-ipad-2-iphone-4s-ios-6-1-3/
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/06/28/odysseusota-downgrade-ipad-2-iphone-4s-ios-6-1-3/
Has to be jailbroken, which lots of folks aren't into, but cool find.
Careful, ppcebay & Dirtyharry50. Apple may call you as witnesses! Lol.
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You bolded the part where I said dedicated Metal page on the dev site and what you showed me is not from the dedicated Metal web page. It's from the general Dev library.
This is that page, which has no mention of compatibility on the page itself. The most info you'd get is that it is only for "64-bit devices" only after looking into the technical documents:
https://developer.apple.com/metal/
Either way, these are all pages that general consumers concerned with iOS 9 won't be finding. Maybe the fact that I didn't end up finding the page you linked shows that. It's a page clearly meant to only be read by app developers and not users who want to know compatibility.
And how does this change the fact that both his device and my device were rendered unusable by Apple and also by effectively stranding us on iOS 9?
The red badge on the Settings icon and automatically downloading the update in the background not even warning the user of the imminent performance decrease counts as a forced update in my book.MS is doing the same thimg with Windows 10 by shoving it in Windows 7 and 8.1 with no cancel button
And LOGIC should TELL you that Microsoft does not trap you on Windows 10.You can still downgrade to XP any time you want unlike iOS which is the main crux of the lawsuit
I agree.iPhone 6 owners ought to join in to increase the pressure on Apple.I know quite a few guys who would be willing to join in
Funny, all i had to do is type Metal iPhone compatible ....but then again i know how to use google and wikipedia.....(i must be a power user...or a pro)
General consumers concerned with iOS 9 won't have an issue with speed, it is the geek in need of super fast tech that moan about how their phone is slow....and most of them left iPhone 4s YEARS ago, the other knows about what is supported and what not, for the rest.....well there's the moaning on forums
As with every upgrade there are mixed results, which are all over the map. My specific case, I'm happy with the upgrade.
I upgraded my mother's iPAD2. iOS 9 makes it annoyingly slow. Typing lag.
I even have a 1 year old iPOD Touch running iOS9 and the typing lag also makes it feel unusable.
I have no issue with upgrades but pushing people to unwittingly upgrade is wrong. But not allowing down-grades is an insult to their users and supporters.
Just to note. I gave this story to MacRumors but it was ignored....
I made an official complaint to the UK ASA (Advertising Standards Authority), regarding Apple's marketing message indicating better performance using iOS 9.
The ASA upheld my complaint and forced Apple to change their marketing message in the UK on their website.
Here's the original message on Apple's website:
And the new one:
Aha! Note the annotation? Let's find out what Apple added...
6. Metal is supported on iPhone 5s or later, iPad Pro, iPad Air or later, iPad mini 2 or later, and iPod touch (6th generation).
Ref: http://www.apple.com/uk/ios/whats-new/
While it's not perfect, it's clear Apple have admitted to knowing iOS 9 does not offer any performance update on older iPad Mini's and I'm very glad the ASA upheld my complaint.
Apple are pushing it with this but they are screwing customers over and ultimately they should simply disallow slow performing iOS updates to older devices instead of bricking them which is what they're effectively doing.
I made an official complaint to the UK ASA (Advertising Standards Authority), regarding Apple's marketing message indicating better performance using iOS 9.
The ASA upheld my complaint and forced Apple to change their marketing message in the UK on their website.
Here's the original message on Apple's website:
And the new one:
Aha! Note the annotation? Let's find out what Apple added...
6. Metal is supported on iPhone 5s or later, iPad Pro, iPad Air or later, iPad mini 2 or later, and iPod touch (6th generation).
Ref: http://www.apple.com/uk/ios/whats-new/
While it's not perfect, it's clear Apple have admitted to knowing iOS 9 does not offer any performance update on older iPad Mini's and I'm very glad the ASA upheld my complaint.
Apple are pushing it with this but they are screwing customers over and ultimately they should simply disallow slow performing iOS updates to older devices instead of bricking them which is what they're effectively doing.
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