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Class-action Suit Filed Against Apple and 5 Book Publishers Over E-book Pricing
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+ 10^9.
Has anybody that disagrees with this suit even looked at eBook pricing? Books used to be cheaper than movies!
Personally, I was very excited by the eBook age. Now I'm starting to realise that those distribution and materials costs are just not getting passed down. eBooks typically (iBooks is by far the worst, BTW) are as expensive or even more so than actual books, and even in many cases the movie version from iTunes; and you can't buy a 2nd hand copy or resell yours (digital goods do not deteriorate, so there's no disincentive to buy used).
Apple aren't going to do anything about it. What we need is more robust consumer protection legislation that sees no (or little) distinction between online and offline sales. I want a legally protected right to a refund of digital goods, as well as protections to transfer licenses (perhaps there could be a limit to the number of allowed transfers to other people, lowering resale value and providing the disincentive needed for used sales).
So is anyone...
I haven't seen anything but is anyone suing Sams Club? If it is good enough and "okay" legally with them why not Apple?
Profit is not illegal and if we keep drilling it into today's Gen. that it is we will have London riots everywhere... Pay for what you buy or buy a Physical copy from AMAZON EBAY or ANY OTHER ONLINE store.
And they should be. There is no where NEAR the same overhead needed for an ebook as is needed to produce and distribute a physical book. Reminds me of Costco vs. Sams -- Costco does business on the notion that there's no reason for 'windfall' profits: if the price to produce goes down, the price of the product goes down too. Period. Sams just eats the created margin. The same is true here. Rather than attempting to push market growth and encourage adaptation, we're being hamstrung by higher prices for pure greed. Make no mistake, the production cost on e-books already were already lower and are only going down. We're being price gouged.
I haven't seen anything but is anyone suing Sams Club? If it is good enough and "okay" legally with them why not Apple?
Profit is not illegal and if we keep drilling it into today's Gen. that it is we will have London riots everywhere... Pay for what you buy or buy a Physical copy from AMAZON EBAY or ANY OTHER ONLINE store.
Yawnsss
Price of Electricity to run data center, price of computers (servers in data center), Price of the IT staff to run said servers, Price of the internet line to get books to users, price of R&D into the (any of the) ebook stores, price of the design staff to layout different titles for their different needs, price of the data entry staff entering these books into the database.
Seems that the cost of production just shifted from printing staff and "analog" to a digital production team. Not saying it is the same price (cost) but it is there and we will pay for it that's capitalism. Deal with it or move to a socialist country.
Price of Electricity to run data center, price of computers (servers in data center), Price of the IT staff to run said servers, Price of the internet line to get books to users, price of R&D into the (any of the) ebook stores, price of the design staff to layout different titles for their different needs, price of the data entry staff entering these books into the database.
Seems that the cost of production just shifted from printing staff and "analog" to a digital production team. Not saying it is the same price (cost) but it is there and we will pay for it that's capitalism. Deal with it or move to a socialist country.
Please see my Digital cost analysis
which you so conveniently left out of your comparison
which you so conveniently left out of your comparison
Interesting.
I haven't purchased an ebook for the Kindle in awhile, but after reading the posts and realizing the prices have gone up, it reminds me of something a coworker said.
Borders is going away. A couple local branches closed down. Barnes & Noble is next right?
Anyway, the coworker suggested that it is ridiculous how everything (shows, songs, books, games) is going digital now. And with books becoming digital and people transitioning to them, he suggested that one day it will be the privileged that will be able to go to school and be educated. Why? Because only people with the money to afford such electronic devices + internet will have access to that sort of media.
I haven't purchased an ebook for the Kindle in awhile, but after reading the posts and realizing the prices have gone up, it reminds me of something a coworker said.
Borders is going away. A couple local branches closed down. Barnes & Noble is next right?
Anyway, the coworker suggested that it is ridiculous how everything (shows, songs, books, games) is going digital now. And with books becoming digital and people transitioning to them, he suggested that one day it will be the privileged that will be able to go to school and be educated. Why? Because only people with the money to afford such electronic devices + internet will have access to that sort of media.
agreed. Evil is a bit strong, but it was clearly a targeted move to try and neutralise Amazon's advantage in the marketplace as Apple launched ibooks. Effectively forcing an agency model on the entire e-books industry means nobody can compete on pricing anymore
I don't see how it isn't anti-competitive. I thought SRPs were not legally enforceable? for ebooks you now have a situation where basically the publisher sets the prices to the end consumer (as the retailer is simply adding a fixed percentage on top). If that was applied to all retail consumer goods there would be an uproar (although it might be good to help keep smaller local stores open as Walmart etc wouldn't be able to user their size to squash them on pricing)
I don't think anyone is saying there isn't any cost. The main problem is that for physical books (and all other physical goods I think), there is a wholesale price which the retailer buys the goods at - that covers all distribution etc for the manufacturer and includes their profit. Then the retailer decides on the retail price, and they factor in their local costs- retail staff, premises, power etc.
That allows for competition in pricing - if you have a more efficient store, or lower running costs, or are willing to take a lower margin.
with ebooks, all that flexibility is gone.
Google is free to do so...
Hence FREE MARKET let the buyers decide... If buyers want cheap books get a Kindle. If buyers want the versatility of the device buy iPads, but if buyers want iPads and cheap books... wah wah wah based on Apple's let the publishers set pricing not going to happen. Sounds like you have two choices. No one is forcing you to buy an iPad or pay for the iBook (ebook) you want. So... I do not see the problem and I do not think the courts will either unless the Judge is one of the whiny posters I see in here..
Let the platform sink or swim on its own CAPITALISM FREE MARKET ECON 101
What I see now is whiny book readers squabbling over 9.99 vs 12.99 is the new best seller not worth $3 if not DO NOT BUY IT
Hence FREE MARKET let the buyers decide... If buyers want cheap books get a Kindle. If buyers want the versatility of the device buy iPads, but if buyers want iPads and cheap books... wah wah wah based on Apple's let the publishers set pricing not going to happen. Sounds like you have two choices. No one is forcing you to buy an iPad or pay for the iBook (ebook) you want. So... I do not see the problem and I do not think the courts will either unless the Judge is one of the whiny posters I see in here..
Let the platform sink or swim on its own CAPITALISM FREE MARKET ECON 101
What I see now is whiny book readers squabbling over 9.99 vs 12.99 is the new best seller not worth $3 if not DO NOT BUY IT
No the Govt will buy iPads or Kindles
for each student @ bulk discounts instead of a book per subject per student.. I see it as being cheaper as the same iPad/Kindle can stay with the student through each grade level instead of needing to RESPEND on the same student 12months later... Even with repair costs on damaged eDevices I see a HUGE COST savings potential.
for each student @ bulk discounts instead of a book per subject per student.. I see it as being cheaper as the same iPad/Kindle can stay with the student through each grade level instead of needing to RESPEND on the same student 12months later... Even with repair costs on damaged eDevices I see a HUGE COST savings potential.
And you still have that.
Last I checked my Aunts iPad had a Kindle App and Amazon also have the Kindle devices, Sony has their devices and ebook store. So if the Retailer wants to take their 30% and make it 25 or 20% lower the cost of the book in your eBook store.
Am I missing something?
Last I checked my Aunts iPad had a Kindle App and Amazon also have the Kindle devices, Sony has their devices and ebook store. So if the Retailer wants to take their 30% and make it 25 or 20% lower the cost of the book in your eBook store.
Am I missing something?
Absurd
This lawsuit is so ridiculous, there is sometimes this assumption that publishers are awash with money, nothing could be farther from the truth. They are made out to be the bully and in fact they operate on very thin profits. The whole field is not very profitable.
This lawsuit is so ridiculous, there is sometimes this assumption that publishers are awash with money, nothing could be farther from the truth. They are made out to be the bully and in fact they operate on very thin profits. The whole field is not very profitable.
yes, the publisher doesn't set the wholesale price as far as I understand it - they set the retail price. So there is no price flexibility available under the agency model.
Valid Complaint
Don't forget that publishers in the UK are under investigation by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) due to complaints of price-fixing after they moved to the agency model.
Put simply - Before the agency model, Amazon etc bought eBooks wholesale similar to how they would physical books. What they chose to charge for them was their own business, governed by the free market (again, the same as they do with real books). They could choose to sell them at a loss to drive their own business (as most supermarkets do with various products, eg. Tesco sell a lot of beer at cost or below-cost in order to increase footfall in their stores). Again, this is a free market economy and competitors can respond accordingly.
With the Agency model, the publisher has withdrawn the ability to buy eBooks from them wholesale, so if Amazon, Apple etc wish to sell their books they must accept the new terms and only sell the book at the agreed price in exchange for a cut of the sale. If this isn't price-fixing, I don't know what is.
The outcome is a restricted market and one in which the publishers control the price, sellers such as Amazon, Apple etc are not able to compete because they cannot sell the book below the agreed price.
You just have to look for books on Amazon which state 'This price has been set by the publisher' in order to identify which ones are sold under the Agency model.
As far as I am aware, Apple was instrumental in pushing this new model as they probably worked out they would find it hard to compete with Amazon (or didn't WANT to compete) as they were entering a new market which Amazon was already the market leader. It was a great strategy as it took away the main tool Amazon had to attract customers, lower prices. What is there to differentiate iBooks and Amazon Kindle now? Prices are the same, it's just the interface that's different.
Ultimately I think publishers will lose this battle, particularly in the UK where European law is very much in favour of free market competition. Agency pricing is anti-competitive, anti-consumer and governments will (eventually) rule against it.
Don't forget that publishers in the UK are under investigation by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) due to complaints of price-fixing after they moved to the agency model.
Put simply - Before the agency model, Amazon etc bought eBooks wholesale similar to how they would physical books. What they chose to charge for them was their own business, governed by the free market (again, the same as they do with real books). They could choose to sell them at a loss to drive their own business (as most supermarkets do with various products, eg. Tesco sell a lot of beer at cost or below-cost in order to increase footfall in their stores). Again, this is a free market economy and competitors can respond accordingly.
With the Agency model, the publisher has withdrawn the ability to buy eBooks from them wholesale, so if Amazon, Apple etc wish to sell their books they must accept the new terms and only sell the book at the agreed price in exchange for a cut of the sale. If this isn't price-fixing, I don't know what is.
The outcome is a restricted market and one in which the publishers control the price, sellers such as Amazon, Apple etc are not able to compete because they cannot sell the book below the agreed price.
You just have to look for books on Amazon which state 'This price has been set by the publisher' in order to identify which ones are sold under the Agency model.
As far as I am aware, Apple was instrumental in pushing this new model as they probably worked out they would find it hard to compete with Amazon (or didn't WANT to compete) as they were entering a new market which Amazon was already the market leader. It was a great strategy as it took away the main tool Amazon had to attract customers, lower prices. What is there to differentiate iBooks and Amazon Kindle now? Prices are the same, it's just the interface that's different.
Ultimately I think publishers will lose this battle, particularly in the UK where European law is very much in favour of free market competition. Agency pricing is anti-competitive, anti-consumer and governments will (eventually) rule against it.
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While that may all be true (although I've yet to see any actual, official figures linked to by anyone to back that up) it still doesn't explain why you can buy a physical book on Amazon cheaper than the equivalent ebook either on Kindle or iBooks (and that goes for many titles, whether they are new release, old, whatever). The ebook should be the same price, at the very least, given that at least $2-3 per copy (according to posts here, anyway) is being saved by the publisher/retailer on distribution. And that's not even mentioning the advantage publishers gain with ebooks in that you can't lend an ebook to your friends or sell it secondhand once you've read it...
..because with physical books amazon can lower their margin and sell closer to the wholesale price. With ebooks the publisher sets the retail price.
Is it any surprise ebooks are more expensive than physical when the content owner sets the retail price?
And they should be. There is no where NEAR the same overhead needed for an ebook as is needed to produce and distribute a physical book. Reminds me of Costco vs. Sams -- Costco does business on the notion that there's no reason for 'windfall' profits: if the price to produce goes down, the price of the product goes down too. Period. Sams just eats the created margin. The same is true here. Rather than attempting to push market growth and encourage adaptation, we're being hamstrung by higher prices for pure greed. Make no mistake, the production cost on e-books already were already lower and are only going down. We're being price gouged.
Indeed.
ooh, thats smooth.
Apple 'letting' - that sounds so open, so friendly
Amazon 'dictating' - dicating is bad right? bad amazon.
Lol
Hot Damn! As an author, I know I got not one penny more after prices were jacked up by Jobs and company. The money went into the pockets of the greedy publishers. They can make tons of money off selling new books at $9.99 because they have no printing costs, paper costs, distribution costs, warehouse storage costs or transportation costs. eBooks are extremely profitable. This was nothing more than greed running rampant among the publishers.
That's one option.
There are a few more.
All the publisher's need to do is talk to the music industry.
Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it, right?
Oh, I bet.
Hence the lawsuit.
Enjoy it while it lasts and get ready for the real market to take over.
Huh?
I think you need some better straw for your straw man argument.
Did you even read what this thread is about or just dive in when someone questioned Apple???
This is circumventing free market, "hence" the lawsuit.
I'll explain it a different way that will make it clearer.
If every grocery store in your town decided to get together and charged $15 for milk, guess what that is???
I'm not even blaming Apple too much in this.
They want the same sweet deal they get with the music they sell but one problem, they got into the game way too late.
The publishers saw a chance, using Apple's power, to try to change the game.
I might even accept it but you don't even get week one discounts and specials that dead tree books get.
Ebook and Comic Book Prices are High
I kind of agree with this. Before iBooks ebooks were "reasonable" and looked like pricing was going to go down. Now they cost the same as hard covers in many cases. What gets me is Comic Books on Comixology are FULL price - there's nothing that justifies a $3.99 or $4.99 eComic.
I kind of agree with this. Before iBooks ebooks were "reasonable" and looked like pricing was going to go down. Now they cost the same as hard covers in many cases. What gets me is Comic Books on Comixology are FULL price - there's nothing that justifies a $3.99 or $4.99 eComic.
I never disagreed with Apples stance on ebook pricing. I also have never purchased a single book from the iBookstore. I've never seen the value in it.
I do buy an obscene amount of music and apps however. So you might think that Apples 3rd media store would be taking my money as well.
Not so. I don't read novels any more, I listen to them, via audiobook. Beyond that, I don't know of any book I would buy.
I do buy an obscene amount of music and apps however. So you might think that Apples 3rd media store would be taking my money as well.
Not so. I don't read novels any more, I listen to them, via audiobook. Beyond that, I don't know of any book I would buy.