Class-Action Suit Filed Against Apple

[psycho bob]

If what this lawsuit alleges is true why is it limited to the USA? Apple resellers across the globe would have cause to complain and be up in arms. I guess part of it is due to the way law works in the US, it is certainly far easier to do such things in the land of red, white and blue.
I'm confused as to why anyone would rate this thread as a positive, if true apple will lose millions and the share price will plummet and the net return; a few people will get rich very quickly. if the alleged troubles began in 1995 it has been a long time without so much as a whisper of this coming in to the news.

 

[budugu]

This happened to me and Apple didn't even want to do anything about it. I ordered a 700MHz iBook G3 and when I opened it up, it was obvious it was refurbished. But when I called them they said it was tagged as new and they wouldn't let me return it. I got really angry because I had paid full price for a used machine and eventually I was able to return it, after weeks of frustrating phone calls. In the end, however, I had the impression that it was simply an honest mistake and that a group of used iBook was somehow mislabeled. I don't think Apple did it intentially.

It is not that hard to believe when they are completely running out of production there is a huge tendency to recycle as much stuff as possible to meet the huge demand. a lot of returns which are with in the 14 day period could have that. When did you see refurbished items of the new products apple introduced? i am sure there is definitely a % of stuff that gets returned to apple.

 

[HiRez]

I know from talking to a reseller that Apple is very tight with product and very tight with parts with a lot of the mom and pops. I think the bias at Apple is that a lot of these places are leeches, and have been over the years. They just live off of Apple, and don't grow marketshare or represent the product well.

That may be, but the biggest offender in this regard has to be ChumpUSA, a place I've seen over and over again try to actively steer their customers away from Apple's section (and products). Apple should probably dump them for being terrible resellers, but the good news is that's changing now that people are going in there specifically to look at Macs, which wasn't the case a couple of years ago. I've noticed the ChumpUSA Mac section generally has a lot of people browsing and playing around lately.

 

[MacNut]

It is against US law to sell anything returned as new, Once the box is opened it has to be sold as a refurb. If Apple has been doing this for years now they may be in a world of trouble.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

To take the (arrogant) euro-view on this: USA has way too many lawyers per capita, plain and simple... the system with class actions suites are clearly lawyer driven and rarely makes anyone but the lawfims any good...

 

[shawnce]

To take the (arrogant) euro-view on this: USA has way too many lawyers per capita, plain and simple... the system with class actions suites are clearly lawyer driven and rarely makes anyone but the lawfims any good...

To take the (arrogant) usa-view on this: You are right!

 

[GadgetDon]

Quoting from my post in my weblog earlier today:

According to an article in Forbes, Apple is being sued in a class action lawsuit. There are claims about misdealings with their third-party resellers that may have some validity. Then, there is a claim about how they have dealt with their customers. They claim that Apple failed to fully honor service contracts and warranties and sold used computer equipment as new.

"It seeks to include in the consumer class any person in the U.S. who purchased Apple products or repair services since Jan. 1, 1995, except for someone affiliated with Apple or the lawsuit."

Your honor, I object. I have purchased several Macs since January 1, 1995, and have needed repair services during that time. All of my warranties were fully honored, even in a few circumstances that I expected them to be disallowed. All of my equipment was new.

Apple has not harmed me, I object to having Apple sued on my behalf, and I object to being represented by the two shysters of Franklin and Schack who made their name by suing wireless service providers, making millions while the clients they supposedly support got pennies.

Where do I go to fire these lawyers?

 

[phonic pol]

Hmmm, I think I'll forgo that apple care purchase I was thinking about!

 

[ryanyogan]

This is just the begining of a new era for Apple. With there bigger customer base, slowly growing market share, and "popularity" they are gaining as well as profits; comes lawsuits from idiots trying to take a bit of there profit. Much like everyone suing Microsoft for the same ****. Regardless of how Microsoft runs there business, it is there OS and they make it so if they want to include some cool features and make it better then real player, and don't want to include Java why should they have to?!?! Apple is soon going to feel the heat for not only this stuff in the past but the iLife apps and dashboard. Dashboard is funny if you think about it though, I mean it is konflabulator smashed right into the OS, as if they didn't even try to make it look different lol

 

[absolut_mac]

Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Class Action Suit Filed Against Apple.
Posted on MacBytes.com

Approved by Mudbug

I have no idea whether this law suit has any merit or not, but it does seem like Apple is now starting to experience a little bit of self inflicted bad karma.

Having said that though, I would be very surprised if Apple didn't honor their warranty contracts, especially concerning Apple's California customers. Apple knows that consumers rule here on left coast

And it obviously pays big dividends, because most companies make good money off spendthrift California consumers.

 

[PlaceofDis]

This happened to me and Apple didn't even want to do anything about it. I ordered a 700MHz iBook G3 and when I opened it up, it was obvious it was refurbished. But when I called them they said it was tagged as new and they wouldn't let me return it. I got really angry because I had paid full price for a used machine and eventually I was able to return it, after weeks of frustrating phone calls. In the end, however, I had the impression that it was simply an honest mistake and that a group of used iBook was somehow mislabeled. I don't think Apple did it intentially.

but at least in the end they took care of the situation for you, which apple probably more often than not does. accidents such as this do happen, things can get mixed up, there are careless workers, but does that mean that apple itself is trying to do this stuff intentionally to hurt resellers and customers, i doubt it

but i guess we will have to wait and see how this turns out, interesting nonetheless though, makes you think a bit

 

[AngusB]

Google Ads...

Also, has anyone noticed the terrible Google ads showing up at the bottom of the thread.

As if we were pro class action and needed to get in on some Vioxx lawsuits...

Makes it pretty clear why Congress passed the new law.

Angus

 

[elo]

Class action suits are not intended primarily for reimbusement, though they can be used that way. They are intended to create a mechanism for wronged individuals who wouldn't have a large enough claim to bother asserting it to take action collectively. The idea is that individuals (and law firms) are better watchdogs than the government would be. Moreover, we don't want the government scrutinizing everything that companies do.

With actions like this, there usually isn't much to worry about, as there is a difficult hurdle to getting class certification (and that preceeds any suit on the merits). True, some companies settle before that point, but most will wait and see what happens with the class certification. Certainly, Apple will, given the competence of their legal team.

Although I haven't read the complaint, the class action device seems like the wrong choice for the allegations made by these people. I don't see it going anywhere. Usually, the result in situations like this ends up showing how well the system works. Unfortunately, the reporting doesn't work as well.

 

[Rod Rod]

I'm confused as to why anyone would rate this thread as a positive, if true apple will lose millions and the share price will plummet and the net return; a few people will get rich very quickly. if the alleged troubles began in 1995 it has been a long time without so much as a whisper of this coming in to the news.

A lot of scandals are either well-hidden or go unnoticed for a long time before they're exposed.

This thread got positive ratings because accountability is good in the long run.

To take the (arrogant) euro-view on this: USA has way too many lawyers per capita, plain and simple... the system with class actions suites are clearly lawyer driven and rarely makes anyone but the lawfims any good...

The legislative and executive branches of government are ill-equipped to put a check on this sort of (alleged) corporate misbehavior. The judicial branch picks up the slack. It's a good system.

Your honor, I object. I have purchased several Macs since January 1, 1995, and have needed repair services during that time. All of my warranties were fully honored, even in a few circumstances that I expected them to be disallowed. All of my equipment was new.

Apple has not harmed me, I object to having Apple sued on my behalf, and I object to being represented by the two shysters of Franklin and Schack who made their name by suing wireless service providers, making millions while the clients they supposedly support got pennies.

Where do I go to fire these lawyers?

You are clearly not in the class which these lawyers are representing. They are not working for you. "Your" lawyers are working for Apple, not for the class.

 

[intlplby]

i just don't agree with class action suits in general.... they are almost invariably filed by some lawyer who sees a case to make millions upon millions of dollars..... in the end each person listed gets like $10 or some coupon or voucher...

it's hardly justice and just drains money from a company that could be used for R&D


as far as taking information from resellers i think it is hardly the case since anyone who buys an apple more than likely is also going to fill out the registration screen on their new comp and apple will have that users demographics anyway....


the only thing listed that seems shady on apple's part is the reselling of refurbished equipment as new

 

[guez]

Let me try to explain it to you...

Class action suits have their problems, but they are important because they make it possible for consumers (or other individuals) to have their interests defended by competent legal council. Even if the injured parties don't get that much money, it keeps corporations on their toes. Otherwise, they may figure that can rip off millions of individual consumers, each of whom won't bother to sue (because the legal costs dwarf the damages). Let's say, hypothetically, that one in five Apple computers solds as new has been refurbished. That would amount to millions of computers and hundreds of millions of dollars, but it would hardly be worth it for individuals to sue.

The only other solution is to have government regulators take care of this kind of thing by imposing stiff fines. This probably wouldn't work in the US, and would do little to remedy the harm already done to private parties.

I'm no fan of lawyers, but I don't like multinational corporations either.

i just don't agree with class action suits in general.... they are almost invariably filed by some lawyer who sees a case to make millions upon millions of dollars..... in the end each person listed gets like $10 or some coupon or voucher...

it's hardly justice and just drains money from a company that could be used for R&D


as far as taking information from resellers i think it is hardly the case since anyone who buys an apple more than likely is also going to fill out the registration screen on their new comp and apple will have that users demographics anyway....


the only thing listed that seems shady on apple's part is the reselling of refurbished equipment as new

 

[fatfish]

I am sure apple have done all the things they are accused of at some time. I have a construction business and from time to time, we have driven a nail through someones water pipe or not taken away all the waste at the end of the job. That doesn't make us bad builders, accidents occur.

The defining issue I am sure is on what scale these offences were commited and whether they were mistakes or policy. I'm sure Apple have given thier resellers a hard time, but have they intentionally set out to destroy them through malpractice........I don't think so.

Truth is most resellers arn't good enough and can't compete with Apples Applestores and they are narked about it.

I'm in the UK, I have no Apple store for 250 miles, but one of my friends who was an Apple reseller just simply couldn't provide the service that the online service could provide. Needless to say he's gone bankrupt, he should have adjusted because there was no way he was ever going to compete with Apple. I have no sympathy for him. If you run a music store, you can't rely on selling vinyl just because you always have done. Now he installs networks and sets up video conferencing, perhaps he should have adjusted before now.

I'm not that sure that resellers are all that good for Apple anymore. I have another friend who sells ipods but knows nothing about them. When a customer brings one back, she phones me up, if I'm not available she takes it back and sends it back to Apple, in most cases there is nothing wrong with it, but it still costs Apple.

My opinion on all this: A whole bunch of Apple resellers who don't perform as well as the Applestores do and will do anything to save thier business.

 

[dejo]

My refurb was clearly different

I ordered a G4 iMac a while back that was refurbished and I could tell as soon as I received it there wasn't going to be any confusion between it and a brand new iMac because it came in a plain brown box! New iMacs come in white boxes with lots of pictures and writing on them. If Apple went through the effort to change the box, they clearly are making an effort to differentiate new vs. refurb. I don't see this being a widespread problem.

 

[Invizzible]

A friend of mine recently bought a "new" emac. She says she was online filling out some form, and Safari's auto fill feature put someone elses name in the blank after she typed in the first letter of her name. At the time she told me, I thought it was very strange. Now I'm wondering if she was sold a used computer. BTW, her 1.25 GHZ emac with 512 MB ram is noticeably slower at everything, including loading web pages and opening applications, than my 5 year old 1.4 Ghz (upgraded) single processor 100 Mhz bus powermac G4. Anyone know what would make a "new" emac perform like a tired dog?

 

[broken_keyboard]

i just don't agree with class action suits in general.... they are almost invariably filed by some lawyer who sees a case to make millions upon millions of dollars.....

I agree. If an indiviual feels wronged, they have every right to seek redress. That is an important part of the system. But class action law suits are just a lawyers game.

 

[Doctor Q]

A friend of mine recently bought a "new" emac. She says she was online filling out some form, and Safari's auto fill feature put someone elses name in the blank after she typed in the first letter of her name. At the time she told me, I thought it was very strange. Now I'm wondering if she was sold a used computer. BTW, her 1.25 GHZ emac with 512 MB ram is noticeably slower at everything, including loading web pages and opening applications, than my 5 year old 1.4 Ghz (upgraded) single processor 100 Mhz bus powermac G4. Anyone know what would make a "new" emac perform like a tired dog?

Do Apple Stores sell the floor models after a while? Do they call them new?

 

[Mac2004]

If Apple doesn't fix the bugs in Mac OSX 10.3.8 they will have another class action lawsuit by all Apple G5 users!!!!!

 

[mrwalker]

About time.... see www.tellonapple.org

They've been at this for a while now, the resellers in my area are all closing down because of Apple's shoddy business practice. Would be nice to see some viable alternatives to the Apple store still surviving.

Actually I think we heard the real story told in another tread recently, from actual users of some of those stores.

AppleInsider will never be visited by me again.

 

[d.perel]

I wonder if this will help anyone?
Mac users will win $.02
Mac resellers will win $.75
Lawyers will get $$$
If the class action suit wins some amount due to the customers of Apple computer, maybe they could give us a discount on a Tiger Upgrade...that would be helpful

 

[ASP272]

Since 1995, I've spent a lot of money on Apple products for myself. Since that time I've worked with over 50 different Macs as a Mac Systems Administrator and Graphic Designer. In all that time I never had a problem with AppleCare honoring warranties, but I have had problems with them finding my AppleCare agreements in their system. Each time that was the case, though, they found or got my AppleCare information in the system and proceeded to handle my issue. 99% of my calls to AppleCare were for parts replacements or warranty repairs for items such as hard drives, Super drives, and even motherboards. Apple never seemed like they did not want to honor the warranty. Also, everything I've ever bought has looked new, been packaged new, and honored in warranty as new. I just don't buy this lawsuit, especially with it's timing just before the new law takes effect. It just sounds like the resellers and greedy lawyers want to make Apple pay - resellers for Apple Stores and stocking issues - and lawyers just for plain greed. This country is so lawsuit happy it makes me sick. Apple has probably done some shady dealing just like any other major computer company trying to make a buck, but I've never seen it, and I've always been satisfied with products, warranties, and service. My votes is for Apple to win this one, or settle at a small price to satisfy the resellers.