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MP 1,1-5,1 Classic Mac Pro 5.1 Mojave Firewire not s Digital Tape Camcorder

M

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 5, 2012
1,130
337
Brighton_Melbourne_Victoria_Australia
Hi guys,

I am trying to import digital videos from a video camera (two actually). My brother in law's videos. I did mine years ago. The firewire connection works with a firewire drive, but not with a camera (digital 8 and mini DV cameras - both digitally record via moving magnetic tape).

Computer - 5,1 original with an RX 580 Sapphire GPU
OS X Mojave
Connection - Firewire 400 in camera =>800 in 5,1 (tested a 400 hard drive via an adapter for the 400 cable and the drive works and is seen)
Adapter used from 400 to 800 inlet port - but checked with a Firewire 400 drive, which worked perfectly.
Software tried:
- Final Cut Pro 10.3.4;
- Quicktime Player (has seen the camera and recognised the model but fails to import;
- iMovie 10
- iMovie 9.09
- iMovie 6.5
iMovie 6.5 looks for the camera, but cannot see it.

Checking the System Report, the Firewire window is blank with the camera connected and turned on in video play back mode - the mode where software should control the camera, or at least, import the digital stream.

When the camera is not on, the system reports the Firewire 800 bus, etc.
One App did recognise the camera, I think FCP, stating its name (an NV-GS120). But it failed to do anything.

I presume that either the GPU (being metal) or the OS (being Mojave) is too recent to work??

I doubt going back in OS would help me due to the metal RX 580.

I have a 2011 Macbook Pro with a corrupt drive - I am considering installing an earlier OS onto that as a means of getting the videos. But I will take a long time to get an operational OS on that old girl. Which is a surprisingly fully equipped notebook (even has gigabit ethernet, mag power, SD card, etc etc). But its drive is sick!!

I told my brother in law getting good quality raw video would be easy. It isn't when I try to!!

I would prefer to use the Mac Pro 5,1 to do this job.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Thanks for the check Bigwaff, but those Youtube explanatory videos are for digital videos which are saved in the video camera to an internal SD card inside the camera.

The cameras I am trying to get video from, have digital video which is stored on moving tape. In order to save the digital files to the Mac, the video app, or even Quicktime viewer - on the Mac needs to be able to see the video camera, via its Firewire port. Currently it cannot properly see the camera, and also, Firewire hangs when the camera is connected. I know this because when I do a System Report from About this Mac, the Firewire report is blank. Without the camera attached, the Firewire bus is reported - hence Firewire is not working with a camera.

If I cannot do it on a mac, I may have to do it in Windows. Windows can do it easily. It seems its not easy for a Mac Pro that has been upgraded in OS to only Mojave but also has a metal GPU in it, which I think is likely stopping things working. I may be wrong - I hope I am.

If I put the original GPU in the Mac, I would have to remove my raid card, or worse, remove the RX 580 GPU. It is difficult to move from the original GPU to new one, as swapping drives etc.

Its probably easier to resurrect an old Macbook Pro 2011, but unfortunately I dug one out but its SSD is corrupted and I could not recover it. So I have to do a full reinstall, which will take me time as I have forgotten those steps and even which OS is best to use on the old Macbook.
 
Bigwaff,

You emailed me. With a link to this thread. I repeat - that links to Panasonic usage does not cover the earlier Panasonic digital video camera I have successfully use previously. Also I have a Sony camera, with Firewire, and it cannot be seen either. Its a Firewire recognising the camera issue I think, and probably related to changing to a metal GPU instead of the original GPU. Even FCP doesn't successfully see the camera or control it. And those links all concerned digital storage card storage inside video cameras. These were later technologies.
 
Melbourne Park said:
I am trying to import digital videos
Click to expand...
I’ll try on my 5,1 in a day or so and report back. I have a few DV cams that use FireWire. I would suggest that you try a different cable FW400->FW400 (no adapters). Just use the rear FW400 ports on the back. I do seem to recall an issue years ago with one of my DV cams not working with a particular adapter I had.

I did eventually replace the adapter with an appearently good 400->800 cable and it worked well.
 
crjackson2134 said:
I’ll try on my 5,1 in a day or so and report back. I have a few DV cams that use FireWire. I would suggest that you try a different cable FW400->FW400 (no adapters). Just use the rear FW400 ports on the back. I do seem to recall an issue years ago with one of my DV cams not working with a particular adapter I had.

I did eventually replace the adapter with an appearently good 400->800 cable and it worked well.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Whoops - I did not realise my 5,1 also has the old 400 ports as well.

I just checked - it has:
3 - USB type A ports
2 - Firewire 800s ports
2 Sound Inlet ports ports I think,
2 Sound Output ports I think
2 Ethernet Ports

I ordered a conversion cable - but Amazon then informed my the supplier no longer did!

I will test things on the old notebook running Mountain Lion. It has a Firewire 800 port. If that runs the video cam with the adapter, then the issue relates to something with the 5,1.

I aha some more computers with Firewire 400. Including a PowerPC Desktop tower too which would work - but I am not sure about having a suitable monitor for that "Windtunnel" very noisy desktop. A plastic fantastic and metal thing ... able to run OS 8 and OS 9 as well as many OSXs. I loved OS 9 - but for the crashes. I did learn to save files frequently though.

I also have a Titanium 15" MacBook whatever it was called. Fabulous computer for the time, until the Titanium started to flex ... they did not use enough titanium metal in its body! At that time Apple hadn't discovered that milling a blank piece of alloy makes it very strong. That titanium metal sure did fatigue - titanium is not supposed to suffer from metal fatigue. Hence Apple presumed it would not and made it too thin ... an Apple characteristic perhaps.That Titanium PowerPC had a Firewire 400 port I am pretty sure!!!
 
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Strangely Amazon delivered the 800 to 400 cable.

My old MacBook Pro early 2011 was in one the home office cupboards, stacked amidst several MacBooks of various flavours.

Issues:
Hard disk couldn't be recovered (but didn't try Macfixit software but Disk Utility couldn't recover it)
Installed from USB Mountain Lion onto the newly formatted 128 GB drive (a new 1 TB arrives tomorrow - was tempted 2 TB but ...)
4 MB RAM - 16 MB arriving tomorrow ($Au36 - I think it will work)
Cannot yet find a new battery - mine is totally dead. I fear opening up and seeing a mess in there. I need a new battery just to stop the old one expanding I reckon)
And the track pad is dead. I hit the keyboard too hard and I can see the track pad is ascrew - not a small job to replace that. If they are available. So I'm using a mouse.

Loaded iMovie 6.5 I think - plugged in the new Firewire cable - iMovie saw the camera and controlled it. And downloaded the movie.
Tried the adapter cable - same story. So the 800 to 400 cable adapter works. The old Firewire cable has magnetic isolators on it - it looks a fancy cable. But both seem just the same

So the Mac Pro 5,1 cannot do it ... I suspect its the metal GPU.

thanks everyone.
 
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Melbourne Park said:
So the Mac Pro 5,1 cannot do it ... I suspect its the metal GPU.
Click to expand...
Or perhaps Apple just removed the capability of controlling DV tape over firewire in newer OS.

Same way they removed DVD templates in iMovie.

Why don't you try copying the iMovie 6.5 app from Mountain Lion onto Mojave and see if it works.
 
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krakman said:
Or perhaps Apple just removed the capability of controlling DV tape over firewire in newer OS.

Same way they removed DVD templates in iMovie.

Why don't you try copying the iMovie 6.5 app from Mountain Lion onto Mojave and see if it works.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

I did try that, and in case I made a mistake, I just tried it again - but it fails to see the camera.

I think if this was due to the video software version, them Final Cut would see it (and it does see the camera after opening FCP most times but can never control or import data).

Also for all my tests, I tried various was of getting the data. From having the video camera already playing when I rebooted the computer, and combinations between doing that and having the software already open before then turning the video camera on.

Quicktime Player also does not see the camera. And with those various combinations of trying to get the camera's video seen. So this issue is not IMO due to the video software.

If I put my ATI Radeon 5770 original GPU in the 5,1 and removed the RX 580, I am unsure if I would get an operable monitor screen, or any screen. I have read I thought that the 5770 would still operate in Mojave, but that it would be super slow and jumpy. I have read of people leaving both cards in their 5,1s and things have worked that way for some. I don't want to re-learn going back to the old OS and then having to go forward again ... I have a RAID card too, so I would have to remove that for the 5770. Its just all a bit difficult. Shame really ...

I am hoping a new battery in the 13" MacBook Pro early 2011 will get the trackpad working. I recall the track pad playing up and I bought an Air replacement in 2015 (the Air was more portable and the Pro removed the need for notebook power back then). Having read battery reviews, its seems the reason my track pad was failing was due to battery expansion. I am afraid of what I will find when I open the case in the 2011 MacBook Pro ... I have ordered a replacement battery but won't get one for several days. So I am looking at the new RAM cards and the 1 TB SDD drive for the 2011 MacBook, and am frustrated as heck because I don't want to open the case until I have that replacement battery!!! If the 2011 Macbook's track pad runs, it'll be a real "phoenix" recovery for that old and I think still pretty very nice MacBook! I had forgotten how nice that machine really was...
 
Melbourne Park said:
Cannot yet find a new battery - mine is totally dead. I fear opening up and seeing a mess in there. I need a new battery just to stop the old one expanding I reckon)
And the track pad is dead. I hit the keyboard too hard and I can see the track pad is ascrew - not a small job to replace that. If they are available. So I'm using a mouse.
Click to expand...
A very strong indication the battery has swollen and damaged the trackpad.
 
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Edge said:
A very strong indication the battery has swollen and damaged the trackpad.
Click to expand...
Yep ... I wish I'd know back then. The factory battery must've only lasted 3 years. Replacing the track pad is I think easy, but getting one, probably not. And probably not worth the effort ... but I am pleased that its started up and is importing. Quite a surprise to me.
 
crjackson2134 said:
I’ve recently had Monterey not recognizing some inputs, as well as iMovie.

Try this just for capture. It solved the problem for me.

VideoPad Video Editor 16.47 Free Download - VideoHelp

VideoPad makes editing your video easy. This full featured video editor lets you create professional looking videos with transitions, music and narration in just minutes.
www.videohelp.com www.videohelp.com
Click to expand...
I downloaded, but no luck so far.

If Monteray can run it on a Classic Mac, then surely easier Mojave should. That software does run Firewire in Windows I believe. So far I haven't been able to get it to work on my setup.
 
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Melbourne Park said:
I downloaded, but no luck so far.

If Monteray can run it on a Classic Mac, then surely easier Mojave should. That software does run Firewire in Windows I believe. So far I haven't been able to get it to work on my setup.
Click to expand...

Well, it was worth a shot. Yeah, it runs fine on my 5,1.

Video Editing Software for Everyone. Download Free, Windows & Mac. Easy Movie Editor.

Download award-winning VideoPad Video Editing Software. Edit your videos, add effects, create a movie. Crop, trim, split, add effects & more on the fastest & easiest video editor for Windows PC & Mac.
www.nchsoftware.com

System Requirements​

 
crjackson2134 said:
Well, it was worth a shot. Yeah, it runs fine on my 5,1.

Video Editing Software for Everyone. Download Free, Windows & Mac. Easy Movie Editor.

Download award-winning VideoPad Video Editing Software. Edit your videos, add effects, create a movie. Crop, trim, split, add effects & more on the fastest & easiest video editor for Windows PC & Mac.
www.nchsoftware.com

System Requirements​

Click to expand...

Oh just to emphasise, the software works fine.

But I am not able to import video data streams from a tape based digital video stream ie a digital 8 or MiniDV digital tape based video camera. These old video cameras recorded video onto a moving tape, with a digital code. Some also converted a Hi8 linear video recording on a moving tape and streamed digital video to a Mac (or PC) via Firewire. Early on USB was too slow for digital video data. At the end of these video cameras' technology lives, some had faster USB ports and could stream the digital code to Windows software using the then latest USB of the time.

Its no longer a big deal for me as I will import the videos to the old Mac notebook. The MacBook instantly sees the camera, its camera icon goes dark, I can switch to the camera icon in iMovie, and then I can hit a record button and the camera starts moving the video tape, and the data streams into the old MacBook Pro.

I have also read that a Firewire adapter for Thunderbolt 3 may work for importing videos via FCP or Quicktime, but I have not explored which OS and which Macs that would work on. I did not want to do that on my Intel 2018 MacBook Pro, because it has little disk capacity.

I will take in my brother in laws videos, and with an early one, I'll grab a clip and increase its resolution using Topaz's video enhancement software. But to do my old videos, I will need a faster computer. There is also free software which does the same in Windoze. Evidently Topaz enhancement is fast on M processors, but I did not test it with the M3 Max 16" which I bought then returned. In the end, I may switch to Windoze, because some CAD software that I will need is better value in Windoze and has far more features for what I want to do. Also the computers are upgradeable and for faster video enhancement Topaz works best with Nvidia GPUs, and with Windoze its easy for me to upgrade a GPU if have the need.

A great thing about Apple is that their OS is free, and their video software is a one time payment. Unfortunately they do not have an easy upgrade path anymore which makes me avoid buying a new Mac as I am uncertain what I need. And to buy over capacity with a Mac is an expensive mistake. But so is buying a Mac with not enough capacity.
 
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At least you have a way to recover the recordings (if they're not too degraded).

I powered on my Digital8 TRV240 to find it has failed while in clean-storage. So I can't test anything at the moment. There's about 20-30 micro-screws I'll have to remove to pull it apart for investigation.

Mine powers on and everything appears to work, but the video signal isn't getting to to the screen. I believe I can clean the edge connectors/ribbon-cable and it'll fix the "Known Problem" with these cams.

So ... It may be a while before I get around to testing firewire transfer. The USB option on my handy-cam presumably works fine, but FCPX won’t recognize that (I think).

To be continued ...
 
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crjackson2134 said:
At least you have a way to recover the recordings (if they're not too degraded).

I powered on my Digital8 TRV240 to find it has failed while in clean-storage. So I can't test anything at the moment. There's about 20-30 micro-screws I'll have to remove to pull it apart for investigation.

Mine powers on and everything appears to work, but the video signal isn't getting to to the screen. I believe I can clean the edge connectors/ribbon-cable and it'll fix the "Known Problem" with these cams.

So ... It may be a while before I get around to testing firewire transfer. The USB option on my handy-cam presumably works fine, but FCPX won’t recognize that (I think).

To be continued ...
Click to expand...
Good Luck!!

Its a real problem. My brother in law is meticulous, and his two old cameras are in sealed bags, and he has a couple of boxes of video tapes, some not digital. But ... these cameras for some reason have connection cable issues when not used.

It's a win/loss situation. I bought a spare but it did not work at all!! It came too with sound tape!! I got my money back but after some considerable disputes! There are still some cameras around, but its important to be ready to check if they actually work. The spare I bought the fellow turned it on, and the lens showed a picture. Then the cassette door opened and shut, so he claimed it worked fine. The bottom loading ones like your 240 are more difficult to get into too. They are more compact, lighter, but for servicing, they are more difficult.

The youtube repairers say the more they are used, the more reliable they will be. But then their capstan / pinch rollers wear. Heads can go out of alignment too, but the 240 would have adjustable heads. I saw a video on changing the head alignment which fixed a camera with stripes etc. I guess with no recording or play back it would be either a connection issue, or perhaps the heads, although I'd have thought the heads would not magically get dirty without using the camera. Its easy to clean the heads though. Youtube. There are rubber conditioners for the rollers too. Don't use alcohol on the rollers - you tubers say alcohol further hardens the roller rubber. MG Chemicals has their 408C Rubber Renue product, which works mostly for printer and scanner rubber rollers, but also works on the rollers in video cams. Although those can get worn in the middle which can cause tapes not being aligned with the heads. Also causes chewing tapes.

Evidently if one takes a camera apart and then one pulls out the cables and even just pushes the cable back back in, oxidation is removed by the sliding out and in motion. Iso alcohol can't hurt while doing that. There are electrical cleaners too. Internal switches that fail are a big issue. If the camera has a fault code that can help you know an error. Hopefully for you its just a cable, but its probably best to find out which cable controls the video heads so you know you have actually cleaned the right one!!!
 
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Melbourne Park said:
Evidently if one takes a camera apart and then one pulls out the cables and even just pushes the cable back back in, oxidation is removed by the sliding out and in motion. Iso alcohol can't hurt while doing that. There are electrical cleaners too. Internal switches that fail are a big issue. If the camera has a fault code that can help you know an error. Hopefully for you its just a cable, but its probably best to find out which cable controls the video heads so you know you have actually cleaned the right one!!!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m 99% sure it’s the cable. The transport carrier mechanism, rollers, and head are fine. I bought this camera brand new, and used it twice. No more than 2 hours of usage on it. It’s clean, and was stored properly.

It too will show a proper camera picture in record mode, all menu settings work/display fine. Only playback image/sound are the issue. If I can’t do a simple fix, I’ll either sell for parts or toss it.

An iPhone on a tripod makes better recordings anyway (for future needs).
 
crjackson2134 said:
Yeah, I’m 99% sure it’s the cable. The transport carrier mechanism, rollers, and head are fine. I bought this camera brand new, and used it twice. No more than 2 hours of usage on it. It’s clean, and was stored properly.

It too will show a proper camera picture in record mode, all menu settings work/display fine. Only playback image/sound are the issue. If I can’t do a simple fix, I’ll either sell for parts or toss it.

An iPhone on a tripod makes better recordings anyway (for future needs).
Click to expand...
I phone is incomparably better, except for tele options. And night vision too perhaps!!! Sony got into trouble with that and disabled some of their features (fixable inside with some models).

From my time trying to fix things recently, I'd suggest:
- Check your tape first
- Get one you don't need or new tape. Digital 8 or Hi-8 video 8mm tape is required.
- Record onto the tape and then rewind and play back. If that doesn't work then it's not an external cable.
- Check any error codes on the screen. If a cable connection internally has lost a connection, then often you would be getting an error code of some type on the video camera's screen after you start up.

I had a number of tapes to back up which I had not done (brother in law's). If you've already done those, then there's no need to worry eh?!!
 
Yeah, I’ve tried several tapes, and recording / playback. Same results. No error codes. I like the night vision, it works ver well (still Does).

No errors on the screen. I’ll buy (and probably waste time/money) a new tape for testing. I had/have several sealed/unused tapes, but they too are decades old. I’m in no hurry, though. I also like the TBC in it. It will strip Macrovision signals in pass through mode, and fix any A/V sync issues.
 
On the night vision - curiosity issue: if used in the day time, it would see through clothes. Inside the older digital 8s (many in the top loading ones) there is a shutter which stops the IR sensor from working. But it's simple to disable the mechanical shutter, and then the IR feature will work with the normal functions in the day time. Sony would remove the mechanical shutter, and making it so the IR feature only worked in no or very low light. People who did this often would be able to see through people's clothes, as many clothing allows IR light waves to pass through.

Back to your camera!

I doubt a new tape will make any difference. I am surprised about how perfect the uploads from the digital 8 camera have been, including tapes from the early 1990's made in Hi8. There are some very old tapes my wife found too (not brother in law's) which were in a box with a super early digital 8 video camera of my father's. His unit would have cost a lot of money back then. I will do them soon. I hope to get lucky!

If there is a repair guy available they would be worth a try.

The repair guys I sought out did not repair - they merely offered costly upload services.

I bought a replacement off digital 8 off ebay which was a bottom loading more modern version, with high spec. But it was like yours - the lens showed contents on its screen, but it could not record or play back. Ebay handled my complaint and paid for its shipping back. The exercise cost me time and upset, and $US6.50.

I tried a local guy and I picked up the camera and tested it. It's a perfect camera and appears to be little used. It cost a bit more but was worth it. I will be able to sell it when I finish too.

There are still some specialist guy(s) via Ebay who supply good and very good ones (re-built) ones in the USA. Some not cheap but they could always be resold. One day they will disappear. Ensure if you buy a used one, that its format is the same as your recordings. For me, it's PAL. For you, it's likely NTSC. In Australia some people bought NTSC cameras from the USA because their prices were much lower than Australian prices, which I presume would have been comparable to Euro prices.

I think these cameras are now in short supply, and lower cost ones that are good are now rare. Check that they can handle digitising to a computer. Some models do not. And their model numbers are often higher than ones that do digitise to a computer. I presume a camera with an iLink or Firewire port, would be able to digitise. So if you need to upload, time is short. Good luck.
 
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