Climate change sending the Earth back in time..

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Mr. Anderson, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Nov 1, 2001

    Interesting article - but I think the title is a bit sensational, invoking images of swamps and dinosaurs. Still a scary thought.

    This bit I don't get - is it 10 or 99 percent? That's a huge range and doesn't seem to make sense.

  2. Foxglove9 macrumors 68000


    Jan 14, 2006
    New York City
  3. 2nyRiggz macrumors 603


    Aug 20, 2005
    Thank you Jah...I'm so Blessed
    Yeah....what did agent smith said in the matrix movie..."we humans are like a virus...we infect an area kill the resources and moved to another...we stink"

  4. skunk macrumors G4


    Jun 29, 2002
    Republic of Ukistan
    Presumably the percentage depends on how bad it gets.
    Warmish: 10%
    Quite Hot, Really: 30%
    Sticky: 60%
    right up to
    Awfully Bloody Hot: 99%
  5. Cloud9 macrumors regular

    Aug 10, 2005
    between flesh and thought
    Why am do I feel like the only one who sometimes loses sleep over this. I live in a liberal community and the liberal ones just figure this is one part of the armageddon thats coming, but feel non chalantly about it. How do we have this lethargy of consciousness to push this idea out of our minds and continue functioning as if nothing is happening. Every news report I hear about this makes me feel like an idiot for all the planing for the future i am doing. If I where smart I would go to school for climate restructering so that when the .1% of the population gets put in a biodome up north in 50 years I get a lotto ticket. Do I really think its gonna happen? I dont know, but if you've ever paid attention to the creatures in life who are less fortunate then yourself, human and animal, you'll definitly see that nature is not a discriminating force. Our government (US) is not gonna save us thats for sure.
  6. GeeYouEye macrumors 68000


    Dec 9, 2001
    State of Denial
    ^Your mistake is in assuming you need a savior.

    For crying out loud, I am sick and tired of people whining and running to hide behind mommy government's skirts. If you want to affect climate change (assuming you believe in anthropogenic climate change at all), simply stop buying products from companies who you believe are responsible for it, and get others to stop buying from them (without the use of fraud or force).
  7. mcarnes macrumors 68000


    Mar 14, 2004
    USA! USA!
    There is a 25% chance this could be 80% correct. On the other hand, there is a 75% chance that this could be only 20% correct.
  8. Kingsly macrumors 68040



    The truth is, we as a species are relatively new to this whole climatology thing. All the evidence I've seen for or against global warming only succeeds in convincing me that scientists have no Idea what they are talking about.
  9. bearbo macrumors 68000


    Jul 20, 2006
    where did you get these numbers?

    25% chance that this is 80% correct does NOT mean 75% chance that this is 20% correct...

    25% chance this is 80% correct means 75% that this is not 80% correct, but not 80% correct is not same as 80% incorrect, it could be 60% correct...

    okay, i know i know, i'm just rambling... :p
  10. Cloud9 macrumors regular

    Aug 10, 2005
    between flesh and thought
    Hold on there buddy, I do! And I have been for awhile. And I even made it my job for a year once.
    And people that care do make those changes and encourage others to do so. But we are spiraling into disaster. You've really got to be fooling yourself that with out proper mass organized change that any vital impact is going to happen at this point.
  11. jsalzer macrumors 6502a


    Jan 18, 2004
    Historical Perspective?

    If they say they're going to put it into a historical perspective, why don't they actually do so? The truth is, the last 10,000 years in which we've enjoyed a relatively stable average global temperature is *extremely* odd. Throughout most of the history of the planet, the temperature has bounced around quite a bit. *That* is the natural state of things.

    So, we warm 10 degrees, then cool back down, then warm back up, then cool back down. The human race has survived such things before. We simply didn't form civilizations until we had a long enough period of constant warm temperatures in which to do it.

    And species have to move and change all the time. Even within the current "holocene" period, it wasn't too long ago that the Sahara was a lush grassland. And all it would take for a slow-down or a reversal of the flow direction of the Atlantic for Europe to be worthless frozen land.

    In other words, don't lose sleep. Climate changes happen - we've just been spoiled with the Holocene period.

    Just be happy you got to experience Macs while it was warm and just right.

  12. JRM PowerPod macrumors 6502

    Mar 7, 2005
    Outback Australia
    Cool, going back in time, there were a couple of things i regret doing, hopefully i'll get to fix them up. I see this as good news
  13. jdechko macrumors 68040

    Jul 1, 2004
    Oh come on. It's a well-known fact that 72% of all statistics are made up on the spot. :p

    I'm one of those nonchalant people. I recycle the obvious: car batteries, cans, glass & plastic bottles, and newspapers but at the same time, I definitely don't go out of my way to help conserve.
  14. relimw macrumors 6502a

    May 6, 2004
    I just wish people would quit killing all those plastic trees, I mean really, it's not like they're a renewable resource. :eek:
  15. jwp1964 macrumors regular

    Mar 16, 2004
    Enterprise, KS

    Dude, shut off the computer, get off the couch, set aside all the sky is falling crap...take a peak outside...maybe talk to some's not that bad...:confused:
  16. Abstract macrumors Penryn


    Dec 27, 2002
    Location Location Location
    I'm a "scientist", but regardless of whether the proof is there or not, this is one of those matters where it's quite easy to see that what we're doing to the Earth can not possibly be good, and that after industrialization, humans began ruining this planet in ways that no other animal has ruined it. Maybe the nay-sayers are absolutely correct. Maybe the chemicals in the water DON'T contribute to Alzheimers, and maybe the air quality has no effect on the warming of the Earth. However, is the air quality getting worse? Is water pollution getting worse? Can this pollution possibly be good for us? I don't need absolute, irrefutable scientific proof. I just have to taste the water and smell the air outside. It's just a matter of sense, really.
  17. jwp1964 macrumors regular

    Mar 16, 2004
    Enterprise, KS
    Your version of science seems to sound an awful lot like religion...I have blind faith that it is the way I say it is...interesting coming from a "scientist".
  18. crackpip macrumors regular

    Jul 23, 2002
    That's not the "truth". There is significant evidence to contradict this. Just last week, Dr. Eric Wolff released a press statement to the effect that current CO2 levels are higher than they've been in 800,000 years, and that the rate of increase is unprecedented in the known climate record.

    There are non-linear feedback loops in the atmosphere. There are two kinds stabilizing and run-away. An example of the stabilizing effect would be with increasing CO2 levels, the Earth warms. This increases CO2 using plant life and also increases water vapor in the atmosphere, which absorbs CO2. The increase in ocean surface also leads to CO2 deposition. This brings the CO2 level down, cooling the Earth. An example of the run-away process, would be increasing temperatures decreasing the amount of highly reflective surface ice. More sunlight is absorbed making the temperature increase more rapidly.

    The main problem is the atmosphere is non-linear, which basically means we have little idea how these feedback loops will react under different conditions. There will be a certain level of human CO2 production that will overwhelm the deposition methods I mentioned above. That would be a serious problem.

    To maybe restate Abstract's statement. The scientific evidence on climate change will never be proven-- that is not the way science works when dealing with very complex systems. But, there is an ever growing body of evidence, that is currently pretty large, that the climate is changing, and that human activities are likely the largest contributor to current state. There are no silver bullets, though. For many people this is reasonable enough evidence to motivate change in our consumption patterns. For others it will take more, and there will always be people who will deny even if the thermometer was reading 700F.

    The second facet of Abstract's post is also important. Even if you don't believe in anthropogenic climate forcing, solutions to the CO2 and other environmental problems will also greatly impact other issues such as air and water quality, dependence on foreign oil, local environmental change (desertification, salinization, etc).

  19. Abstract macrumors Penryn


    Dec 27, 2002
    Location Location Location
    It's not blind faith. It's common sense.

    Just look at what we have to do to our water just to make it drinkable. Surely you know we're messing up our waters and just cleaning it to make it drinkable, no?

    My point is that it's not blind faith to believe that the pollution and smog we're creating is not good for us. We may not have absolutely irrefutable proof that this pollution and CO2 levels are responsible for killing us/humans and lots of other species on Earth, but I can safely say that pollution and high CO2 emissions is not good for us (ie: it's not beneficial for us), and that we're better off living in a world with less pollution.

    What part of this is even arguable, proof or no proof?
  20. Seventy5 macrumors newbie

    Sep 7, 2006
    Dundee, Scotland
    I am no scientist, but here goes.

    You all talk about climate change, water purity, air quality etc in a way that makes it sound important that we should act on improving each. Who is that important to? Humans.

    If we change the air, water, temperature etc who is that to benefit? Humans.

    Can you drink water straight from a stagnant pool in the middle of Africa? Yes, but you wil be ill or may die. Can you drink water from a stream on a mountainside in Scotland, Canada, New Zealand? Yes and you will probably be fine (as long as there are no dead animals de-composing upstream). Can you survive Arctic temperatures without pulling on a big suit? No. Can you survive Equatorial temperatures without stripping off? No. There are many variations on this theme, but hopefully you see where I'm going.

    The point being that we are only a master race/important/valuable in our own minds. There are animals with far more diversity out there who could answer yes to many of the above questions. We only look to improve things for our own benefit. Nature has cycles and just because we have never recorded certain temperatures, or whatever, doesn't mean they have never existed on the planet. We can only measure with human instruments on human defined scales.

    Maybe time to think outside the box for once and realise that we are nothing special in the great scheme of things, and the great scheme of things will move how it wants. We may help, or hinder it, but we can not control it to any degree.

    We are easily the most self involved, narcissistic animals on this planet and we suffer greatly for it.

    Discuss ;-)
  21. crackpip macrumors regular

    Jul 23, 2002
    I really don't mean for it to be a personal attack, but your post seems to be pseudo-philosophical and a bit oversimplified. I am also not a climate scientist. My Ph.D. will be in designing and implementing high-resolution, localized weather models (assuming everything goes well at my defense next month). I am debating about moving into larger scale (regional and global scale) climate modeling for my postdoctoral work.

    Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post. But, I don't understand why we shouldn't improve air quality etc, we're the ones who are reducing it. There are aerosol detectors in California that are picking up increasing amounts of pollutants coming from China. There are recommendations that you shouldn't eat big ocean fish more than once a week due to mercury levels. The U.S. puts out the most CO2 of any country on the planet. As far as I can tell, human production of CO2 is significantly higher than any other natural production method, including volcanoes (with current eruption frequencies and including large ones like Pinatubo). When it comes to oil pollution in the ocean, standard tanker operating procedure dumps significantly more oil into the ocean than accidents like the Exxon-Valdez. Most ocean pollution (i.e. not just oil) is due to urban and agricultural run-off. Why shouldn't we push to clean up the messes we have made?

    Unless the powerplant upstream accidentally dumps a huge amount of Benzene into the river (like in China). Then you're screwed unless you can fly in the Evian Water Plant.

    There are other things that most people don't understand. Look up Persistant Organic Pollutants (POP's). This is a broad class of chemicals. Some, for example, are chemicals released by manufacturing processes that were once believed to disperse into the atmosphere. The atmosphere is big, so the concentrations of these toxic chemicals shouldn't hurt anything. Except that they don't work that way. They tend to be transported towards the poles where the concentrations increase significantly. And, they are persistant, they remain active for very long periods of time.

    I agree that we are not significant in the grand scheme of things. We could turn this planet into Venus, with its huge greenhouse effect and it's 700K surface temperature (higher than the maximum surface temperature of Mercury). The universe would still go on, although life on Earth would cease.

    I also agree with this; however, I think that the biggest problem comes from those people who believe we cannot possibly have much of an effect on our planet. People that believe they couldn't possibly be doing anything wrong when they fire up their SUV and drive two blocks to get a soda and some cigarettes. These are the same type of people who run companies and feel that a high profit margin outweighs their social responsibility. Companies that allow their plants to release toxic chemicals poisoning the workers, as well as everything around it.

  22. jréh macrumors newbie

    Sep 22, 2006
    melbourne, australia
    75% of all statistics are made up on the spot. seriously people we need to do our bit to stop this rather than talking about lowering pollution acctually catch the bus or do somthing else. good on macrumors
  23. Dagless macrumors Core


    Jan 18, 2005
    Fighting to stay in the EU
    **** it I'm going to the moon. AND YOU'RE NOT WELCOME.
  24. swanny macrumors regular


    Nov 12, 2004
    October 12, 2006

    Global Warming Update

    Well while some still dispute the "fact of" global warming,
    my research indicates that there are none the less many factors contributing to said warming.
    While research suggests a certain % is due to the accumulation of green house gases from human activity, new studies indicate that perhaps 20 to 30 % is attributed to increase solar activity and input and another "significant" portion may be attributeable to a 1 to 2 million reoccuring cycle set off by the wobble of the earth itself. This study seems to indicate that this is a major cause for the mass extinction of mammalian rodents.

    While the disputed cause and facts of warming remain contested I though feel it is more important to concern ourselves with the "consequences" for the planet as a result of changing global conditions. "Planets change" or cycle perhaps is the lesson here and if as a planetary species, humanity desires to sustain and continue itself, we must act in response to these normal, natural or selfimposed or caused changes.

    The greatest concern perhaps then of planet warming may be water. Water resources may change over time and ensuring adequate supplies of clean and healthy water may become an increasing issue or concern. Thus regardless of the facts of change or not, we are seeing significant changes in weather patterns and we will have to monitor such closely to ensure adequate supplies of water for ourselves, our crops and other species of earthen life. We will thus have to become "water stewards", if we, humanity wish to continue as a viable earthen species.

    Wobble Study Link =

    A. Jonas
  25. iAlan macrumors 65816


    Dec 11, 2002
    Location: Location:
    If climate change is in fact sending the Earth back in time then my fashion will once again be in style!

    Sorry, to be a little more serious, if climate change is in fact sending the Earth back in time then won't we all be getting younger?

    Now I will stop kidding around, if climate change is in fact sending the Earth back in time will I have to run System 7.5?

    Ok, Ok, I will stop with the tom foolery, if climate change is in fact sending the Earth back in time then I think I will buy Apple stock when it was at it's lowest!

    Sorry I jest, to put a final nail in the coffin if climate change is in fact sending the Earth back in time I won't actually need a coffin!

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