Apple REALY needs to add recovery and load metrics natively in the app. They have the information.
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Cmon Apple
- Thread starter Indianwin2001
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It’s certainly a missed opportunity, but they’ll need to take more heart rate and heart rate variability samples to make the data worthwhile.
Agreed but they can take more samples of both. If you set it up for a fib, it takes a lot of samples. Some Apps use this now to get better sampling and data.
I really doubt Apple will ever natively report anything like that.
Advertising aside, Apple doesn’t intend this for elite athletes — just weekend warriors at most. And all that a weekend warrior needs to know is that, if they’re tired after a workout or not feeling like they’re at the top of their game before one, they should take it easy. Or, if they’re feeling great and motivated, do a bit extra. Which most everybody will naturally do anyway.
Just look at the Sleep app for comparison. Most third-party apps give you scores of some sort, which has driven enough people to orthosomnia for it to be reported on enough that I know the word without having to look it up. In stark contrast, Apple focusses on the top-line number of hours asleep and oh-by-the-way gives you a pretty-colored (but otherwise useless) chart showing you which phase you were in when. Unless you have a sleep disorder and are working with a medical professional, the Apple app is perfect; it tells you everything you actually need to know while giving you just enough transparency into the next layer to trust the top-line results.
Same with activity tracking. Unless you’re an elite athlete working with professionals, all you need to do is close your rings. The next layer — lap times, heart and calorie rate graphs, that sort of thing — is interesting but not particularly useful without expert knowledge.
None of this is to dismiss your own interest in the metrics; that’s for you and your coaches to worry about. But Apple would do a disservice to its users by confusing them with that sort of thing. Overwhelmingly, the problem is getting people to just do something, anything — not to push to the very edge of the cliff but not over. Tell the average person to take it easy, and they’ll skip the workout altogether; tell them today’s a good day to push themselves and they’ll ignore it in favor of whatever they already had planned. (Not to mention that, at the amateur level, these things are no more significant than biorhythms, as useful as a tachometer in a CVT automatic — but that’s another story.)
b&
Advertising aside, Apple doesn’t intend this for elite athletes — just weekend warriors at most. And all that a weekend warrior needs to know is that, if they’re tired after a workout or not feeling like they’re at the top of their game before one, they should take it easy. Or, if they’re feeling great and motivated, do a bit extra. Which most everybody will naturally do anyway.
Just look at the Sleep app for comparison. Most third-party apps give you scores of some sort, which has driven enough people to orthosomnia for it to be reported on enough that I know the word without having to look it up. In stark contrast, Apple focusses on the top-line number of hours asleep and oh-by-the-way gives you a pretty-colored (but otherwise useless) chart showing you which phase you were in when. Unless you have a sleep disorder and are working with a medical professional, the Apple app is perfect; it tells you everything you actually need to know while giving you just enough transparency into the next layer to trust the top-line results.
Same with activity tracking. Unless you’re an elite athlete working with professionals, all you need to do is close your rings. The next layer — lap times, heart and calorie rate graphs, that sort of thing — is interesting but not particularly useful without expert knowledge.
None of this is to dismiss your own interest in the metrics; that’s for you and your coaches to worry about. But Apple would do a disservice to its users by confusing them with that sort of thing. Overwhelmingly, the problem is getting people to just do something, anything — not to push to the very edge of the cliff but not over. Tell the average person to take it easy, and they’ll skip the workout altogether; tell them today’s a good day to push themselves and they’ll ignore it in favor of whatever they already had planned. (Not to mention that, at the amateur level, these things are no more significant than biorhythms, as useful as a tachometer in a CVT automatic — but that’s another story.)
b&
So obsessing over closing your rings is healthy? People even cheat by lowering their goals for the rings just to keep a “streak” going. There is also a thing where rest is good for you, so you can recover and become better. You just don’t train day after day after day it’s not healthy, but that’s what apple is trying to do with the ring obsession that people have.
Imagine all the complaints Apple would have to handle if they had stock ability to hand load and recovery. Those metrics can be useful at times although they would still be subjective for the masses. The other aspect is there are third party apps that already do an excellent job in this area. Maybe Apple will release a fitness focused ultra watch one day that will have said metrics and more for analysis by the wearer. As it is, I think what you are seeking is very niche and not something that Apple is publicly focusing on.
No, they kind of don’t. My HRV went from 143 to 29 in an hour. It’s not a good process. It’s kind of the same with the other stuff, it’s accurate but not actionable. They need a lot of work.
I’m also not sure I’m convinced by the other stuff either. Garmin kind of felt right, but I never made any training decisions off of it either. I’d like to see but I think we’re still at the self-driving car stage of it, potential, someday, but not yet.
I don't think so, generally (i.e., gross generalization coming) that Apple is trying to make people obsess over rings. I think there are some people that are "athletes", and some that are not. The more athletic crowd would surely understand the need for rest days and not be so hung up on streaks as they don't need the simplistic motivation. But there is a crowd of non-"athletes" who buy fitness trackers and may find streaks motivating (and incredibly helpful if you're simply trying to use it to increase your base activity rate.)
I don't hit my targets every day, it's not a struggle, but it's not a triviality for me to hit mine. For that reason my streaks are (to me) meaningless. A rest day and I won't hit my targets. Even a day that's not a rest day and is just a slow day and I might miss them.
Then yes, there are those who simply do what the watch tells them to do (must close rings), but short of a tailored fitness experience (Fitness+? or external party) Apple has to make assumptions and let users choose how they use the watch. And for those who really don't understand whether they need a rest day or not, Apple does have Fitness+, which I assume has resources to help with that sort of stuff. I could be wrong.
I think you nailed it when said "...the ring obsession people have". Yeah, some people do. I don't think you can blame Apple for that; and Apple still provides a mechanism to hit those goals (5 min minimum aside) for those that really want to.
I'm not saying it couldn't be better. It could, and I hope it gets better. I'm glad that Apple has that as a motivational feature though. It's probably good for the vast majority, and those who are "above" that probably know it. Like you obviously do.
(When I say "athlete" I'm talking about someone who is genuinely looking to make athletic improvements, regardless of current prowess).
Judging by your first sentence I don’t think you understand how HRV works. The whole point if HRV is that it is definitely NOT a static number like your HR is. Jumping from a low to a very high number is not abnormal.
To be honest, I‘m not convinced by it.
A few years ago I read an article about why steps were tracked in every wearable. Was it because it was a meaningful metric? Nope, it was because it was easy to track so they used it. Yet, it‘s useful, because I figured if I got 6,000 steps in at work, I also burnt about 300 extra calories.
I kind of feel the same way about HRV. There is evidence pointing to a higher HRV being beneficial, I think, because I read about it, but never have actually read it. It’s a logical concept, but when you dig in you started seeing a lot of word like “associated with”, “may be”, etc.
Fitness is so rife with BS that even when something isn’t BS, and obviously it’s a real number, it can be twisted and warped into something that we don’t actually know. Maybe it means something in a bigger picture, but we’re trying to dial in whether to go on a run today and it’s innate variability makes it almost useless for that except as a marketing device.
I don’t want to pick an HRV fight, I’m not even prepared to do that, I’m just making a point, I guess.
👍. I actually totally agree with you in 2017 steps for the big thing and now they are meaningless I mean I could cycle for 10 miles which is much more beneficial than 10,000 steps. I understand HRV is not a science. Going by feel is the best way but it’s fun to look at the data. I do think your load matters when you work out though and I feel strongly about that.
I'd be fine if my Garmin just added LTE, a better music experience, and the ability to respond to messages 😂
I just returned my Epix, pro 51 I loved it except I just can’t trust Garmin software. I’ve tried over and over with and there’s too many problems with the software maybe it’s just not for me, but I always have a problem with either a higher heart rate or battery battery, not being correct. I love the load and recovery metrics but if the hr and body battery are wrong everything else is wrong.BTW Spotify worked flawlessly on the Epix
My 965 (and 955 before that) seem to be working fine. I don't pay attention to body battery, just Training Readiness and Suggested Workouts.
Spotify and Amazon Music have been ok when I've tried them with Garmin, but I prefer the Apple Music integration on the Apple Watch.
I don't think there is a standard way to measure recovery metrics (nor load metrics for that matter) so Apple may have decided it doesn't want to use a particular formula at this moment and so doesn't offer load or workout metrics.
A lot of this type of information provided by Garmin and others is rather questionable to me.
Agree. Every company has their own algorithm for load. and recovery. Even the two apps I use on Apple have different algorithms.