Colloquy iOS 4 and 10 minute limit?

[BobHail]

"Colloquy: Updated for iOS 4 as it keeps your IRC session open in the background and has 10 minute task completion timer, and when it runs out it disconnects. Also has fast-app switching."

Source: http://www.technobuffalo.com/prigby67/2010/06/21/the-best-ios4-supported-apps/

I noticed that Colloquy IRC client can now run in the background, which I was very happy about...

...BUT then, here´s the catch. It has 10 minute limit running in the background, that is if you don´t do anything. It will give every ten minutes a push notification that it will disconnect you, if you don´t do anything. So every 10 minutes I have to take the iPhone out of my pocket and open the app just to stay connected.

I mean how freaking stupid is that?!?!?!

Finally a great thing with IRC, but with a stupid catch!

Is this really it, or can you adjust the limit from somewhere? Like for 24 hours to 3 days or something, like with Beejive. I looked trough the settings though and couldn´t find anything...

 

[Luke Redpath]

There is a simple reason for this; iOS4 only provides three distinct active "background" modes: audio, VOIP and location. There isn't a general "keep a network connection open" background mode.

What Colloquy is doing is being a bit sneaky and taking advantage of the task-completion API that is designed to let apps complete a long running task (such as downloading a large file) when the user exits the app. There is no way to control the timeout.

So every 10 minutes I have to take the iPhone out of my pocket and open the app just to stay connected.

Why; what's the point? More importantly, what's the point of having an IRC app running in the background. You aren't using it, so why does it need to stay connected? A waste of resources.

It seems the main motivation for what Colloquy has done is to enable you to switch between Colloquy and another app without having to reconnect each time (say, when you want to check your mail). This makes total sense, keeping it permanently connected does not.

 

[BobHail]

There is a simple reason for this; iOS4 only provides three distinct active "background" modes: audio, VOIP and location. There isn't a general "keep a network connection open" background mode.

What Colloquy is doing is being a bit sneaky and taking advantage of the task-completion API that is designed to let apps complete a long running task (such as downloading a large file) when the user exits the app. There is no way to control the timeout.

Okey, well that sucks!

I guess it´s Apple to blame then!!!

I wish it would be at least an hour. Pretty much useless app with this 10 minute limit.

 

[Luke Redpath]

I still fail to see how its useless...what can you do with the app when its in your pocket? Nothing, so why leave it connected?

What do you think would happen to the battery if you had a ton of apps using the network for up to an hour whenever they were suspended?

 

[BobHail]

Why; what's the point? More importantly, what's the point of having an IRC app running in the background. You aren't using it, so why does it need to stay connected? A waste of resources.

Well tell me how can I read what my friends have written while I was disconnected?

I always keep my IRC open on my Mac. I would like to have that with iPhone too, when I´m on the move.

But I don´t want to hear push notification every freaking 10 minutes and have to then pick up the iPhone from my pocket and open the stinking app just to stay connected!

 

[Luke Redpath]

Well tell me how can I read what my friends have written while I was disconnected?

All that really does is highlight a limitation of IRC. I use Campfire to communicate with colleagues (campfirenow.com) and its great because you can always access chat transcripts; I've used it for so long that I forget that once you disconnect from IRC you can't easily scroll back through what you missed.

I always keep my IRC open on my Mac. I would like to have that with iPhone too, when I´m on the move.

But I don´t want to hear push notification every freaking 10 minutes and have to then pick up the iPhone from my pocket and open the stinking app just to stay connected!

I guess you'll just have to live with it

 

[BobHail]

All that really does is highlight a limitation of IRC.

No. It´s a limitation MADE BY APPLE!

Curse them!!!

 

[TodVader]

Oh well, as soon as I rejailbreak, I'll run this app like it should, in the background. I knew Apple backgrounding would suck.

And to the dude who says this :

" This makes total sense, keeping it permanently connected does not."

Who are you to say this? I get very important stuff from IRC all day long. Maybe that's your case but not everyones...

 

[RafaelT]

No. It´s a limitation MADE BY APPLE!

Curse them!!!

He was referring to the fact that you can't log on and read the messages from while you were gone. That is a short coming with IRC.

 

[BobHail]

He was referring to the fact that you can't log on and read the messages from while you were gone. That is a short coming with IRC.

IRC is not exactly like IM as you know. So yes that may be, but it could be easily fixed if Apple would let us have just a littlebit bit more freedom! That is Apple´s shortcoming!

I mean what´s with this "magical" 10 minute limit. Is it so hard to give us at least an hour or two? What gives Apple?!?!?!?

 

[Luke Redpath]

I mean what´s with this "magical" 10 minute limit.

Like I said in my first post, the point of the 10 minute task completion API is to do exactly that...complete long-running tasks such as downloads when the user quits the app. Its not designed for keeping arbitrary network connections open permanently in the background. For that reason alone, 10 minutes is more than enough for probably 90% of apps and the limit is designed to be a compromise between usefulness and battery savings.

Colloquy's use of it is somewhat unorthodox although as I said, quite clever as it enables you to switch between it and other apps without having to keep reconnecting.

 

[bjdraw]

I don't find the 10 min limit annoying at all. If I'm switching back and forth it stays connected and I can catch up on the conversation in a room. But if I forget and close it and go about my business I get a notification (which still suck, but that is another discussion) letting me know that it is about to time out and in addition I get notified anytime someone mentions my name.

I don't understand why you'd want to be connected 24x7, considering the draw on battery life and the need for a more expensive data plan, but at the same time appreciate that it should be your prerogative and not a limitation of the system.

 

[BobHail]

This is BS!!!

Why can´t we get a decent IRC on the iPhone? It´s suppose to be the best phone in the world right? But nooooo!

Other phones can keep the connection just fine, but the stinking iPhone can´t! All my friends are laughing at my iPhone and at Apple, ´cause I have to pull it out of my pocket every ten minutes just to stay connected! BS I say!!! It´s embarrassing!

I don't understand why you'd want to be connected 24x7, considering the draw on battery life and the need for a more expensive data plan, but at the same time appreciate that it should be your prerogative and not a limitation of the system.

Well I want to be connected, ´cause I don´t miss any discussions or news. So if I get disconnected, I´m going to miss what´s been talked about. It´s that simple.

Glad you understand though that it should be MY CHOISE, if I want to use the battery and stay connected to IRC.

 

[gloss]

Sounds like someone needs an Android phone.

 

[BobHail]

Sounds like someone needs an Android phone.

No I don´t want an crappy Android phone. It would be nice though to have IRC from the Android, I´m sure it´s fully functional.

I actually know personally many people, who has chosen other phones instead of iPhone, just because the IRC has always sucked on the iPhone.

So Apple´s loss.

They should step up their game for god´s sake!

 

[gloss]

No I don´t want an crappy Android phone. It would be nice though to have IRC from the Android, I´m sure it´s fully functional.

I actually know personally many people, who has chosen other phones instead of iPhone, just because the IRC has always sucked on the iPhone.

So Apple´s loss.

They should step up their game for god´s sake!

To be fair, they did step up their game, you simply belong to a niche group whose requirements aren't met by the solution they implemented. For the vast majority of us, Apple's system works fine, while eating less memory and burning less battery.

There's an OS 4.0 jailbreak out right now. Have at it.

 

[jclardy]

IRC is not exactly like IM as you know. So yes that may be, but it could be easily fixed if Apple would let us have just a littlebit bit more freedom! That is Apple´s shortcoming!

I mean what´s with this "magical" 10 minute limit. Is it so hard to give us at least an hour or two? What gives Apple?!?!?!?

It is ten minutes because when most people pull out their phone they use it for < 10 minutes, usually to check email, twitter, Facebook, a website, play a quick game. There are times that someone may use it longer, but the majority of time it is just a quick check.

Allowing an app to do whatever it wants in the background for 2 hours would destroy Apple's idea of not having to think about multitasking, because your random app will stay running in the background without the user knowing for 2 hours, draining battery while the user keeps it in his pocket.

Now, Apple could fix this by allowing an app to request a specific amount of time for a user to stay connected and keep the 10 minute limit for apps that don't have user consent. That way your IRC app could ask you if you want an extended period of living in the background. Apple probably wouldn't do this though, as leaving an app continuously connected to 3G is going to hurt your battery life.

 

[BobHail]

Apple's system works fine, while eating less memory and burning less battery.

There's an OS 4.0 jailbreak out right now. Have at it.

No I don´t like to jailbreak.

And of course the system works fine, did I say anything to the contrary?

I´m talking about IRC for the iPhone here, which is pretty much unusable still for the iPhone. I´ve waited for this a long time, that it could be solved. I almost thought that the day had finally come, but nooo, it was just a sad little workaround.

I´m sure the Colloquy developers are just as frustrated at Apple. They could be making lots of more money, if Apple would allow just a littlebit freedom here!

 

[mackmgg]

Well tell me how can I read what my friends have written while I was disconnected?

I always keep my IRC open on my Mac. I would like to have that with iPhone too, when I´m on the move.

But I don´t want to hear push notification every freaking 10 minutes and have to then pick up the iPhone from my pocket and open the stinking app just to stay connected!

Theres this cool thing called an IRC bouncer, just use that ZNC is a good one, or Colloquy client for mac if you want ease to setup

 

[BobHail]

It is ten minutes because when most people pull out their phone they use it for < 10 minutes, usually to check email, twitter, Facebook, a website, play a quick game. There are times that someone may use it longer, but the majority of time it is just a quick check.

No. IRC is supposed to run all the time in the background. It´s not like you can just go check what has been discussed, if you have not been connected. Facebook, email, Twitter... are TOTALLY different things.

But yes, I understand the need for other apps. Of course I don´t want them to remain running in the background when I close them.

Allowing an app to do whatever it wants in the background for 2 hours would destroy Apple's idea of not having to think about multitasking, because your random app will stay running in the background without the user knowing for 2 hours, draining battery while the user keeps it in his pocket.

Of course no one wants to have apps running in the background without them knowing about it. But there should be apps that can do this WITH the users permission.

Now, Apple could fix this by allowing an app to request a specific amount of time for a user to stay connected and keep the 10 minute limit for apps that don't have user consent. That way your IRC app could ask you if you want an extended period of living in the background. Apple probably wouldn't do this though, as leaving an app continuously connected to 3G is going to hurt your battery life.

Good idea. You should go work at Apple.

And AGAIN, it should be my choise, NOT the "big brother" Apple´s, who treats us like we are children or something. If I want to run some app in the background, like IRC, I should be allowed to do so for god´s sake. It´s 2010! Get with the times Apple!



p.s. And by the way, I did some field testing. I ran the IRC in the background for about 3 hours and it didn´t waste battery pretty much at all from the "normal". It was a PainInTheA$$ though checking every 10 minutes like a madman!

 

[BobHail]

Theres this cool thing called an IRC bouncer, just use that ZNC is a good one, or Colloquy client for mac if you want ease to setup

Yes I know this. It´s just another annoying workaround solution, because you have to leave your computer open when you go out, right?

And I´m definitely NOT going to do that!

 

[aforty]

No. It´s a limitation MADE BY APPLE!

Curse them!!!

I hear they make lovely Android phones now that don't have this limitation. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[BobHail]

I hear they make lovely Android phones now that don't have this limitation. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

See! This is exactly what happens when people are in denial.

I´m a fan of Apple products and I happen to think iPhone 4 and iOS 4 are overall great!

BUT when there´s something to criticize about, I´m gonna do so. And this is major issue that Apple still needs to seriously work on!

At least I don´t have Apple blinders on like some people.

 

[aforty]

See! This is exactly what happens when people are in denial.

I´m a fan of Apple products and I happen to think iPhone 4 and iOS 4 are overall great!

BUT when there´s something to criticize about, I´m gonna do so. And this is major issue that Apple still needs to seriously work on!

At least I don´t have Apple blinders on like some people.

I happen to like blinders, they keep the little distractions (like Android) out of my field of view.

 

[thelatinist]

I hope Beejive gets this update soon. The ability to check email or look something up in Safari without reconnecting each time is just what I've been hoping they could do with this API. 10 minutes will be plenty for me.