Common misconceptions about the Reality Pro and why it'll probably be successful

[negazina]

Hello! I thought I'd write this post after browsing Reddit and seeing history repeating itself. I'm sure some of us remember the skepticism of why iPhone, iPad, iPod, Watch would "fail" before their respective releases and the exact opposite happening to all of them.

I have been following the Apple Reality Pro headset like a hawk for almost 10 years now. Seeing it finally assumingly being unveiled this spring is really exciting despite the speculation of it being worth 3000 USD for the first generation model.

Firstly, I noticed a lot of people are very skeptical of "use-cases" for VR and understandably so. VR has been in niche "early-adoption" phase for a good 8 years now. In fact, the only killer apps we have gotten are mostly arcade rhythm games, which is unsettling. AR has yet to have a killer app due to the limitations of AR. Pokemon Go doesn't probably count as no one uses the AR features anyway.

I honestly believe people are looking at VR and AR use-cases the wrong way, and a reason why my Quest 2 was collecting dust for so long, Since Facebook's stance change to Meta and their focus on the "metaverse", their stocks have tanked, trust is being lost and employees are being laid off en-masse. What the adopters and Zuckerberg have envisioned for VR/AR is cool, but not enough for mass adoption.

Reading the rumours and news on the Apple Reality and the future of VR, I feel the future is bright if we don't focus on gaming and virtual experiences exclusively

Virtual and Augmented Reality is not only about gaming. Which is honestly where people are not seeing interest. The latter especially. I've seen comparisons to Google Glass which was 10 years ago mind you. Computing has moved colossally. about as much as the Glass was a failure.

Tim Cook has said multiple times that AR is where the world is heading, not VR and it shows. A use case example is talking to your friends in-person virtually. Being able to have a screen anywhere, of any size. Need For Speed-like arrows pointing where you need to go via GPS. Art installations.

VR is still going to exist, the Quest Pro, rumoured Valve Deckard and Apple Reality are supposed to do both after all. It's just limited what you can do with VR practically as opposed to AR. The metaverse, gaming and immersive experiences are VR's forte, which could be great when combined with AR.

The price is ridiculous but so was the Macbook Air first gen. This is merely a developer SDK, with the second, more affordable generation coming in 2025

 

[NEPOBABY]

Tim Cook has said multiple times that AR is where the world is heading, not VR and it shows.

Yes but don’t expect it to be an iPhone replacement. Phones are easy to use and don’t get in the way.

Every device will exist for years and nothing will be replaced. Everyone will buy whatever suits their need for whatever reason they have.

Besides that, gadget addiction is a hot button issue and will always be.

 

[stevemiller]

What the adopters and Zuckerberg have envisioned for VR/AR is cool

ehhhhhh. vr board meetings doesn't excite me a ton.

I've been involved with VR for the last decade, and while there's some neat stuff you can do with it, more often than not, I find myself preferring use cases that are specific and short. I know some of that will improve with newer tech/ergonomics, but I can't shake the feeling that something stuck to your face is just a little too invasive in this already gadget-saturated world. But I guess it'll be interesting at least to see what Apple pitches in this space.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Tim Cook has said multiple times that AR is where the world is heading, not VR and it shows. A use case example is talking to your friends in-person virtually.

Shoving a giant Visor (as in their purported headset) in my face and obscuring my eyes doesn't make the experience of talking to friends more intimate or "in-person". It does the opposite.

Need For Speed-like arrows pointing where you need to go via GPS

Can't you that get that with a quick glance at your Apple watch?
With less danger of running or driving into oncoming traffic and injure yourself and others?

Then again, Apple watches haven't been a big hit as navigational tools either.

 

[negazina]

Shoving a giant Visor (as in their purported headset) in my face and obscuring my eyes doesn't make the experience of talking to friends more intimate or "in-person". It does the opposite.

i mean, what you need to realise is we thought exactly the same thing before iPhone. "no physical keyboard is gonna flop", "no one pulled a Smart Phone off so Apple's will flop".

've been involved with VR for the last decade, and while there's some neat stuff you can do with it, more often than not, I find myself preferring use cases that are specific and short.

My Quest 2 has been collecting dust to the point I sold it off. But I truly believe VR and AR together will change things enough, especially Apple making devices for everyone and not a niche crowd

Yes but don’t expect it to be an iPhone replacement. Phones are easy to use and don’t get in the way.

not for a while no.
.

 

[AppliedMicro]

i mean, what you need to realise is we thought exactly the same thing before iPhone. "no physical keyboard is gonna flop", "no one pulled a Smart Phone off so Apple's will flop".

I don’t think it’s comparable to the iPhone. The iPhone is a pocketable device - a form factor that was well-established before the iPhone. There was skepticism about its keyboard, but Apple provided a very good implementation that could replace physical keys. A similar thing can be said for eBook readers: the mimic the physical properties, size and use of books printed on paper - just thinner and lighter.

But having a wearable screen in the face? It has never been done successfully outside of niche applications. And I doubt there is or will be great demand for it - outside of entertainment applications like gaming and porn (the latter of which Apple isn’t going to allow on the platform, limiting its economic potential).

Tim Cook has said multiple times that AR is where the world is heading

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. But that doesn’t require a headset. And it doesn’t mean that headsets with screens worn over the eyes will be the primary medium through which we experience such „augmented reality“.

 

[iZac]

With 4K screens and foveated rendering, I really think Apple will push this as a monitor replacement and extension (mainly home use) for your Mac / iPhone with what will have to be an excellent pass-through camera that's active by default.

Then eventually once the tech is advanced enough they can swap the AR pass-through to actual glasses for the real market explosion.

I think all of Apples recent markets are just enhancements of things people are already used to.

iPhone / iPad / Apple Watch / Airpods
Mobile Phone / Notepad / Wrist Watch / Earphone

We all already used these things and weren't lampooned for looking 'weird' when using them. I think that's why Bluetooth headsets took SO long to normalise - with the advent of generation Airpod. Before then, talking on Bluetooth headsets just screamed douchebag because the hands-free talking was just so alien to people and made them feel conspicuously different.

I'm not necessarily saying Apple Reality will do for VR what Airpods did for Bluetooth headsets, but eventually the benefits will outweigh the drawbacks and the form factor will shrink enough to be acceptable to the average consumer.

I guess when Apple Glasses can become a fashion statement like designer spectacles are, then Apple will have a home run.

 

[negazina]

I'm not necessarily saying Apple Reality will do for VR what Airpods did for Bluetooth headsets, but eventually the benefits will outweigh the drawbacks and the form factor will shrink enough to be acceptable to the average consumer.

I guess when Apple Glasses can become a fashion statement like designer spectacles are, then Apple will have a home run.

everything you said in your post is very true. spot on in fact. i said this in the OP which you may have missed:

The price is ridiculous but so was the Macbook Air first gen. This is merely a developer SDK, with the second, more affordable generation coming in 2025

most people will probs wait until 2025. 2023's is exactly what you (and many others) said, an impractical ski-goggle expensive abomination which is Apple Reality in its infancy.

 

[iZac]

everything you said in your post is very true. spot on in fact. I said this in the OP which you may have missed:

most people will probs wait until 2025. 2023's is exactly what you (and many others) said, an impractical ski-goggle expensive abomination which is Apple Reality in its infancy.

Yeah it's definitely a market that still trying to find its footing. I may sound negative (maybe a realist) on it, but I should also say that I am personally very excited for VR/AR to go mainstream. After playing Half Life Alyx a couple of years ago it was an incredible introduction to VR and it's possibilities even just in gaming. I still appreciate what an unexpected joy it was two years later, but the path to it was a nightmare.

I actually first tried it in a 'VR room' where you rent them by the hour in a big padded cell and a ceiling tethered cable. This then encouraged me to look into it properly, but it costs a fortune and I wasn't willing to drop that kind of money on what may well end up being a novelty. So then I rented a headset for home use for a month. At the time it was a HTC Vive Pro, base stations and Valve Knuckles. I mean that whole kit would have been ~$1000 to purchase outright, a pain in the arse to set up and I still needed a decent PC to run it. What an awful introduction if any of those steps went wrong!

Eventually I err ... got my office to plunk down on an HP Reverb G2 which is also good, but those Valve Knuckles controllers are ergonomically excellent and the Vive Pro had much better contrast ratio with oled screens. Even after all this time I still get wobbly with totally free continuous movement.

So, users absolutely have to experience it beforehand and experience something great on it before they're sold. Too many people have their friends or relatives thrust a Quest 2 into their hands and new users throw it on without being introduced to it properly, I mean people don't even know what an "inter-pupillary distance" is and complain when it's blurry. The head straps are awkward and have to be adjusted to suit the individual and everything has to be fiddled with a bunch before you can even get to use it. Oh and don't get me started on the completely fractured software - with Steam, Meta and Windows Mixed Reality and soon Apple. With this nascent market each platform is trying to take a bite of a tiny cherry.

Expect Apple to set up a bunch of pods for people to vanish into and have a clandestine experience without embarrassment. They'll need to be taught how to use and adjust it before they're comfortable spending a big wad of cash on a novel new experience. Even then, these will still be used at home because no one's walking around the street wearing a pair of goggles no matter how big the Apple logo.

So yeah, I may be one of those proverbial "bluetooth headset wearing douchbags" I'm just waiting for Apple to make the 'Airpod' version of VR so everyone else can feel comfortable wearing them

Text wall, sorry!

 

[Tdude96]

I think AR is very limited use on handheld devices, and AR goggles have some powerful use cases if deployed strategically and especially if made more affordable. The focus on gaming with AR headsets isn't terribly appealing to me outside of some very edge cases. It seems like more of a side gig than where the primary focus should be. Other use scenarios seem far more valuable to bring it into the mainstream and make the technology more accessible. Hopefully Apple will be able to do that.

Improvements in form factor (making them more sleek and less heavy) would be nice, but not necessarily a deciding virtue in the success of the technology. Making it useful and enhancing to people's lives seems more important to making it an "everyday" "must have" device, almost regardless of appearance.

And that definitely includes stuff like visual directions for walking routes and enhancing visual details.

I'm thinking of other things too, like AR star maps. Right now you can hold your phone up and see constellations and information about the stars in that area of the sky, but it's not all that immersive. An AR headset could take that to a whole new level. Not practical enough? What about an air traffic controller with every aircraft in sight labeled and indicators of exactly which one is talking right now?

Imagine visiting a historical ruin and being able to unobtrusively slip on some AR glasses, look around and see reconstructions of how it may have appeared when it was whole. Visit a museum and when you view artwork, have a side overlay about the artist and view other works by that artist, or see it as it would have been displayed in its original location if it's been moved. Far more immersive and less distracting to others than having to hold your phone up for it.

Engineering & 3D modeling applications seem like an obvious use case. Being able to see and manipulate concepts prior to committing any materials seems valuable. I've seen some real life use cases of this, but uptake seems insignificant right now. Even medical applications. Presumably if a mirror and a box can help with a phantom limb, AR could do it too, and maybe better.

It could revolutionize how education is served in nearly as big of a way as the Internet did. You could sit in on classes delivered by the best experts at any lecture hall or educational laboratory in the world and experience instruction and practical demonstrations in a much more immersive way than video could ever deliver. Trying to master a difficult art or exercise? You can see it in progress, walk around and view it from all angles - without having to hold your phone up in front of your face.

And there are non-gaming playful or gimmicky uses too. I 3D scanned my sleeping cat. Now I can use my phone to place the cat anywhere I want and walk around and see from all angles - but have to hold my phone up to do so. Same thing with 3d maps of hikes I've taken or want to take. It'd be more convenient to do that with AR goggles or glasses. And for that matter, it would be an improvement on existing AR shopping technologies that are phone-based. See and walk around new furniture in your own home before buying it, for example. Or remodel your house in AR by actually walking around and making the adjustments you want as you move through it.

It's not that a focus on AR gaming doesn't have value, it's just that focusing so heavily on it really confines it to a niche audience and sidelines the wide range of other beneficial applications the technology has to a much larger population.

 

[negazina]

It's not that a focus on AR gaming doesn't have value, it's just that focusing so heavily on it really confines it to a niche audience and sidelines the wide range of other beneficial applications the technology has to a much larger population.

EXACTLY 👏
I've been trying to say exactly what your post implied to skeptics. i can see their reactions aging like milk

 

[Twelvethirtythree]

Virtual and Augmented Reality is not only about gaming. Which is honestly where people are not seeing interest.

I agree completely. Apple has never done well with games, why would they start now? Their core base are creators. The question is, how will AR/VR help you create? Will it make it easier to create videos? Will it be easier to create design? What about programming? Even writing?

The Pro line has always been built to attract this type of person, I don’t see a reason to expect that to change with Reality Pro. I’m very excited to see if they can deliver and I’m contemplating pretty hard about buying one the day they announce.

I am worried about the design, though. It looks too generic. I hope that the it looks better in person. Just a bit of a tangent, but I don’t understand they couldn’t ”think different” about the headset design. They could have enclosed all the hardware inside big circular loops around the ears and a very flat to the face ski-mask look, with it just sitting on the ears. Or something else. But at least get a little bit creative here.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

I agree that it will be a bigger launch than most are expecting. I think the market is being looked at by what is available right now, instead of what it could be. The first MP3 player in 1998 sold 50,000 units in one year. The first iPod was released in late 2001 and sold 400,000 units through 2002. By 2004, iPod unit sales were 4.4 million. Apple wasn’t first to market, but they clearly dominated when they entered.

 

[negazina]

I am worried about the design, though. It looks too generic.

thankfully its a fan concept

I agree that it will be a bigger launch than most are expecting. I think the market is being looked at by what is available right now, instead of what it could be. The first MP3 player in 1998 sold 50,000 units in one year. The first iPod was released in late 2001 and sold 400,000 units through 2002. By 2004, iPod unit sales were 4.4 million. Apple wasn’t first to market, but they clearly dominated when they entered.

yep! same as the smart phone and smart watch until Apple entered

 

[MrWayne]

I think what this going to be is an extension to your mac. Not a standalone computer like the Quest. Which is not what I want. I personally want something I can grab and work on without having my mac with me. They are going to make it limited just like the iPad Pro line. It will take at least 10 years for it to mature and still question its goal. Or they could change strategy and make it a standalone device that can work with/without your Mac.

I am impressed by the Quest Pro. I do not think apple will make a standalone headset. I do think they will perfect the camera quality of the passthrough and the multi device exprience.

 

[negazina]

I think what this going to be is an extension to your mac. Not a standalone computer like the Quest. Which is not what I want. I personally want something I can grab and work on without having my mac with me. They are going to make it limited just like the iPad Pro line. It will take at least 10 years for it to mature and still question its goal. Or they could change strategy and make it a standalone device that can work with/without your Mac.

I have tried the Quest Pro and was impressed. I do not think apple will make a standalone headset. I do think they will perfect the camera quality of the passthrough and the multi device exprience.

rumors already said it connects to iphone. so no need to worry about that bit

 

[MrWayne]

What’s strange is once you are in VR/AR all day and come back to using the iphone/iPad. The iPhone experience feels so limited and dated. It’s a very strange but strong feeling

 

[Rychiar]

I always wish i could see my Apple Watch on my wrist in my quest 2 headset so it will be nice to have that actually happen with apple

 

[mattspace]

Just curious for everyone posting on this, how many of you have used VR to do actual work in VR? Not playing around, not gaming, not trying it out, but using it as the necessary working environment for an actual task that could not be accomplished without it?

I’m a sculptor, I work in welded steel. A VR kit, even as bulky and tethered as a Vive Pro, and as large as a big tower PC, is actually much less bulk, weight and restriction than the standard respirator welding helmet, protective clothing, and welding machine 100s of thousands, if not millions of welders use for 8hours+ 5 days a week.

I’ve used that sort of VR tech to previsualise sculptures 10 metres or more tall that I then then went on to fabricate in traditional materials, and there is literally nothing about the “inconvience” attributed to current VR that even enters the picture when assessing the positives of what it brings to my workflow.

Almost everything people attribute to being things VR needs to overcome in order to be “successful” are largely irrelevant to the people who are actually using it in a “Pro” context, as people are discussing with Apple making a “Pro” headset.

 

[MrWayne]

Just curious for everyone posting on this, how many of you have used VR to do actual work in VR? Not playing around, not gaming, not trying it out, but using it as the necessary working environment for an actual task that could not be accomplished without it?

I’m a sculptor, I work in welded steel. A VR kit, even as bulky and tethered as a Vive Pro, and as large as a big tower PC, is actually much less bulk, weight and restriction than the standard respirator welding helmet, protective clothing, and welding machine 100s of thousands, if not millions of welders use for 8hours+ 5 days a week.

I’ve used that sort of VR tech to previsualise sculptures 10 metres or more tall that I then then went on to fabricate in traditional materials, and there is literally nothing about the “inconvience” attributed to current VR that even enters the picture when assessing the positives of what it brings to my workflow.

Almost everything people attribute to being things VR needs to overcome in order to be “successful” are largely irrelevant to the people who are actually using it in a “Pro” context, as people are discussing with Apple making a “Pro” headset.

I use my quest pro for nearly 10 h a day with breaks running CAD and C++ sessions or YouTube/Browsing.

It’s really good. The pass through is a better experience when you can see your surroundings.

I wonder how Apple would do it. Meta will probably counter attack quickly

 

[floral]

I am pretty optimistic about the headset too, but didn't want to show it in the initial reveal so that I wouldn't get flared up with 👎 reactions o_o;;

 

[mattspace]

I use my quest pro for nearly 10 h a day with breaks with CAD and C++ sessions and YouTube/Browsing. It’s really good. The pass through is a better experience when you can see your surroundings.

I wonder how Apple would do it. Meta will probably counter attack quickly

Is that an immersive 3D CAD drawing environment, where you're existing within, and working within the 3D structure, or is it just a big virtual 2D screen?

 

[MrWayne]

Is that an immersive 3D CAD drawing environment, where you're existing within, and working within the 3D structure, or is it just a big virtual 2D screen?

I mostly use it as a multi 2D monitor setup while on my Mac.

The standalone YouTube via the browser is also excellent. The picture is crisp and clear.

You won’t get pain from the headset after using it for a couple of days. The strap gets comfy quickly.

You will clearly want to not come back to a phone after this

 

[mattspace]

I mostly use it as a multi 2D monitor setup while on my Mac.

The standalone YouTube via the browser is also excellent. The picture is crisp and clear.

Yeah, see I think of that as missing the point of a headset, which is to produce a stereoscopically separated 3D space that the user can move about within, and work within on three dimensional objects / environments directly.

You will clearly want to not come back to a phone after this

I can't think of much that's more hellish than a 2D computing experience strapped to my face. Wearing the headset is something you tolerate because it gives you an entire proprioceptively valid three dimensional reality & environment.

The best thing about a 2D computing experience, like a cellphone, is that it's physically trapped within a device, and never occludes your real world.

 

[MrWayne]

Yeah, see I think of that as missing the point of a headset, which is to produce a stereoscopically separated 3D space that the user can move about within, and work within on three dimensional objects / environments directly.



I can't think of much that's more hellish than a 2D computing experience strapped to my face. Wearing the headset is something you tolerate because it gives you an entire proprioceptively valid three dimensional reality & environment.

The best thing about a 2D computing experience, like a cellphone, is that it's physically trapped within a device, and never occludes your real world.

You have good points! I would love to work like you described in 3D space. In meta horizon world you are able to do that. It’s not in my country yet