Concerned about forced shutdowns

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Hello,

I've purchased a Macbook Pro Retina 13" last month and I've been pleased with the performance so far.

However, I've experienced some unexpected freezes that worry me a lot. The first one, strangely enough, occurred during the installation of the OS -- the very first use of the computer. I had to force the shutdown and the issue has never come back ever since… until today when there popped up a window saying that the "computer memory is too low" and continuing the current actions could "damage the computer." It looked like the standard alt + cmd + esc window, except there was a "Continue" button.

Therefore I have tried to free up the memory with 'Memory Clean', but the whole machine froze down in the middle of the process and I had to force the shutdown. The whole incident occurred when I was viewing Safari and Numbers (nothing special). After I launched the OS again, the whole thing repeated and I had to shut it down yet again.

I'm quite concerned as I'd have expected better from this computer.

Do you recommend using programs such as Memory Clean? Should I use maintenance tools such as Onyx or is that not necessary (some users claim it's useful, others say the opposite)? Could these forced shutdowns harm my computer / damage it?

A clarification would be appreciated, thanks.

Regards,
Jakob
 

Bruno09

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2013
2,202
146
Far from here
Hello,

first, use Disk Utility : select "Macintosh HD" on the left, click "Verify the disk".

Then, click "Repair the permissions".

Restart the computer, do some tests, lets us know how it works.

You should NOT need to use "Memory Clean" on this machine...

(please add some infos : which Mac, RAM, which OS ?)
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Thanks for your prompt answer, Bruno09!

I've performed the scans as you said.

Disk verification showed these two green messages (rough translation):
"The volume 6A49CFCB-28DC-4883-9A04-D0DBE8E91805 appears to be okay."
"The volume Macintosh HD appears to be fine."

This was a great result, however the Permission reparation was a little less optimistic. :confused:

The list of permissions that had to be repaired is this long:


Please let me know if this is normal or not, and what I should do. Thank you.

PS: Then I'm uninstalling Memory Clean.
 

Bruno09

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2013
2,202
146
Far from here
The most important is getting "green" messages when verifying the disk.

The long permissions repair list in not a problem : do the repair if not already done, then restart and test the machine.

(please add some infos : which Mac, RAM, which OS ?)
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
I've just restarted the machine. Super quick shutdown and boot up.

Starting Safari seemed a little slower to me, same goes for opening new tabs (marginal difference). Opening new Finder window or Skype took a little longer too, but Photoshop and Settings launched just fine.

System info:
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
This is quite interesting because when I click the Macintosh HD at the top, it says:
Total: 120,47 GB
Available: 16,8 MB
Used: 120,46 GB

… but when I choose the Macintosh HD below, it says:
Total: 120,14 GB
Available: 86,59 GB
Used: 33,55 GB

This is the menu:
 

Bruno09

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2013
2,202
146
Far from here
That is normal :

Macintosh HD on the top is the (physical) disk itself.

It holds your "Macintosh HD" (logical) partition.

Since you only have one partition, it uses the whole space : ~100%

Your Macintosh HD partition is 120.14 GB in size, with only 33.54 GB used (OS + Apps + data).

----> all is ok.

Test the machine, then come back to us if you still have problems.
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Thanks for your clarification.

I'll do some test and let you know if something unexpected happens.

I'm asking out of curiosity -- can forced shutdowns have a negative impact on the machine's performance? Or do they simply affect the hard disk only?
 

Bruno09

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2013
2,202
146
Far from here
I am not skilled enough to answer this question.

I believe it only affects the disk.

You should never need to force shutdown.
So should the problem come again, please explain why and when you need to do so (is it one app that freezes, or the whole computer, do you have to force quit certain applications, what does read the Activity Monitor/Processor tab when the machine freezes, etc...)

If you think that something's wrong with your system, you may download an run the 10.9.4 Combo Update.

And remember : backup
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Last time it happened the whole computer froze. The spinning wheel kept spinning for 30 minutes, mouse could not be moved. The system was not reacting to any keyboard commands. Very frightening.

Which practices do you suggest in order to maintain the performance level of my Mac at the highest level possible? Are there any special things I should do, or does the system take care of itself?
 

Bruno09

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2013
2,202
146
Far from here
The system does take care of itself : it runs maintenance scripts automatically.
You don't need to do anything, excepted verifying the Disk when something strange (freezes) happens, and repairing the permissions from time to time.

Spinning wheel for 30 minutes is obviously not normal : it could be a hardware or a software problem.

I suggest you run an Apple Hardware Test : http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1509?viewlocale=no_NO&locale=en_US
 

556fmjoe

macrumors 68000
Apr 19, 2014
1,611
915
Thanks for your clarification.

I'll do some test and let you know if something unexpected happens.

I'm asking out of curiosity -- can forced shutdowns have a negative impact on the machine's performance? Or do they simply affect the hard disk only?
First it's important to understand how filesystems work. At first glance, it may seem that when you write to a disk it simply gets written directly to the hardware, and when you read from a disk, it gets read off of it. However, this would be very slow; even a solid state drive has slower read and write times than RAM.

Most filesystems do not write to or read from the raw storage device in this way due to performance issues. Instead, they use a buffer cache in RAM or attached to the disk to hold the blocks of data, then write from the buffer cache to the raw disk. You can think of the difference between a raw transfer and a buffered transfer like so. Imagine you have a box of cereal and an empty container. You want to get the cereal into the empty container. If you take each individual grain of cereal and drop it directly into the empty container one at a time, you are conducting a raw transfer. If you take many grains of cereal and collect them in your other hand, then drop that handful into the container, you are conducting a buffered transfer.

On most (likely all) Unix systems, if you open a terminal and run ls on the /dev directory that contains all of your devices, you'll see that some of the storage devices listed there have an "r" in front of them. For example, the machine I'm typing this from has a /dev/sd0a and a /dev/rsd0a. The difference is that the "r" indicates that all transfers to or from this device are raw transfers; they do not use a buffer. In contrast, if I was to write to /dev/sd0a, I would be conducting a buffered transfer. However, both methods would be accessing the same device; it's just that the methods used would be different.

This has implications when you cut power. A normal shutdown will stop all processes that are running, flush the buffer cache by finishing writing anything in it to the disk, and then unmount the filesystem before killing the power. A hard shutdown where you just kill the power immediately via the power button leaves data in those buffers. Sometimes that data is important metadata about where things are on the hard disk and other low level information. It simply gets lost and the result is that upon reboot, the filesystem doesn't know where things are on that device.

This is often called an "unclean" shutdown. On many Unix systems, a tool called fsck is run automatically after an unclean shutdown to find and fix these issues. Depending on the operating system, you cannot even mount a filesystem with R/W permissions if it has been marked unclean. You would need to run fsck on it first to fix it and then mark the filesystem clean.
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Thanks for your comprehensive answer. Now I have a better understanding of the OS.

Should I run the fsck check manually now?

Unfortunately, I've been experiencing a series of very annoying freezes again, 20-30 seconds when I can't do anything else but move the cursor. Today it's happened 4-5 times already. Clicking or hovering over objects in the dock leads to no reaction. Opening applications, especially Safari, is not as lightening quick as for 2-3 days ago.

Do you have a suggestion what I should do? As said before, I'd expect better from a computer that cost me over $1500, so I hope this issue can be easily fixed.
 

Bruno09

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2013
2,202
146
Far from here
Hello,

as previously said :

- run an Apple hardware test

- when the machine freezes, open Activity Monitor, processor tab, do a screenshot and post it here.

If your system has been damaged by your forced shutdowns, you will have to re-install the OS (without erasing the disk, without losing anything such as applications or data).
 

556fmjoe

macrumors 68000
Apr 19, 2014
1,611
915
Thanks for your comprehensive answer. Now I have a better understanding of the OS.

Should I run the fsck check manually now?

Unfortunately, I've been experiencing a series of very annoying freezes again, 20-30 seconds when I can't do anything else but move the cursor. Today it's happened 4-5 times already. Clicking or hovering over objects in the dock leads to no reaction. Opening applications, especially Safari, is not as lightening quick as for 2-3 days ago.

Do you have a suggestion what I should do? As said before, I'd expect better from a computer that cost me over $1500, so I hope this issue can be easily fixed.
You can certainly run fsck manually, but I don't think the freezes are a product of filesystem problems.

It sounds more like a process is running amok, which forces you to perform an unclean shutdown, which then creates filesystem errors as the buffers are not properly flushed. I'd take a look at the activity monitor and see if something is eating up your CPU and/or RAM.

edit: If you do run fsck manually, it's a good idea to backup your data first. It's possible that it could cause data loss, though it probably won't.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
29,178
8,826
California
Thanks for your clarification.

I'll do some test and let you know if something unexpected happens.

I'm asking out of curiosity -- can forced shutdowns have a negative impact on the machine's performance? Or do they simply affect the hard disk only?
Forced shutdowns can corrupt the filesystem, but won't do any permanent hardware damage. The thing is you have Filevault encryption turned on and that makes forced shutdowns far more prone to causing file corruption because the encrypted core storage volume used by Filevault is not properly closed and dismounted.

Try running this utility that shows an overview of your system and post the results up here for us to look at. The Etrecheck output will look like this post.
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Thanks everyone for answers, appreciated.

Small freezes happen very often now -- I can barely type continuously without any interruptions. The same goes for web scrolling.

Results below:

EtreCheck version: 1.9.12 (48)
Report generated 28. juli 2014 17:59:25 CEST

Hardware Information:
MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) (Verified)
MacBook Pro - model: MacBookPro11,1
1 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5 CPU: 2 cores
4 GB RAM

Video Information:
Intel Iris - VRAM: (null)
Color LCD 2560 x 1600

System Software:
OS X 10.9.4 (13E28) - Uptime: 0 days 8:18:22

Disk Information:
APPLE SSD SD0128F disk0 : (121,33 GB)
EFI (disk0s1) <not mounted>: 209,7 MB
disk0s2 (disk0s2) <not mounted>: 120,47 GB
Recovery HD (disk0s3) <not mounted>: 650 MB

USB Information:
Apple Internal Memory Card Reader
Apple Inc. Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad
Apple Inc. BRCM20702 Hub
Apple Inc. Bluetooth USB Host Controller

Thunderbolt Information:
Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus

Gatekeeper:
Mac App Store and identified developers

Kernel Extensions:
[not loaded] foo.tap (1.0) Support
[not loaded] foo.tun (1.0) Support

Problem System Launch Daemons:
[failed] com.apple.AOSNotificationOSX.plist
[failed] com.apple.wdhelper.plist

Launch Daemons:
[loaded] com.adobe.fpsaud.plist Support
[loaded] com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool.plist Support
[loaded] com.oracle.java.JavaUpdateHelper.plist Support
[not loaded] com.teamviewer.teamviewer_service.plist Support
[running] vyprvpnservice.plist Support

Launch Agents:
[not loaded] com.adobe.AAM.Updater-1.0.plist Support
[loaded] com.oracle.java.Java-Updater.plist Support
[not loaded] com.teamviewer.teamviewer.plist Support
[not loaded] com.teamviewer.teamviewer_desktop.plist Support

User Launch Agents:
[loaded] com.adobe.AAM.Updater-1.0.plist Support
[loaded] com.google.keystone.agent.plist Support
[running] com.spotify.webhelper.plist Support

User Login Items:
iTunesHelper
Dropbox
Caffeine

Internet Plug-ins:
Silverlight: Version: 5.1.30514.0 - SDK 10.6 Support
FlashPlayer-10.6: Version: 14.0.0.145 - SDK 10.6 Support
Flash Player: Version: 14.0.0.145 - SDK 10.6 Support
QuickTime Plugin: Version: 7.7.3
JavaAppletPlugin: Version: Java 7 Update 65 Check version
Default Browser: Version: 537 - SDK 10.9

Safari Extensions:
AdBlock: Version: 2.7.8

Audio Plug-ins:
BluetoothAudioPlugIn: Version: 1.0 - SDK 10.9
AirPlay: Version: 2.0 - SDK 10.9
AppleAVBAudio: Version: 203.2 - SDK 10.9
iSightAudio: Version: 7.7.3 - SDK 10.9

iTunes Plug-ins:
Quartz Composer Visualizer: Version: 1.4 - SDK 10.9

3rd Party Preference Panes:
Flash Player Support
Java Support

Time Machine:
Time Machine not configured!

Top Processes by CPU:
29% syncdefaultsd
6% com.apple.internetaccounts
3% WindowServer
2% com.apple.CodeSigningHelper
2% Skype

Top Processes by Memory:
119 MB Safari
57 MB Skype
45 MB Mail
33 MB WindowServer
25 MB oDesk Team

Virtual Memory Information:
109 MB Free RAM
480 MB Active RAM
461 MB Inactive RAM
866 MB Wired RAM
3.87 GB Page-ins
166 MB Page-outs
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
29,178
8,826
California
Thanks everyone for answers, appreciated.

Small freezes happen very often now -- I can barely type continuously without any interruptions. The same goes for web scrolling.

Results below:


Launch Daemons:
[loaded] com.adobe.fpsaud.plist Support
[loaded] com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool.plist Support
[loaded] com.oracle.java.JavaUpdateHelper.plist Support
[not loaded] com.teamviewer.teamviewer_service.plist Support
[running] vyprvpnservice.plist Support


User Launch Agents:
[loaded] com.adobe.AAM.Updater-1.0.plist Support
[loaded] com.google.keystone.agent.plist Support
[running] com.spotify.webhelper.plist Support
Ordinarily, what I would suggest is you boot into safe mode since that bypasses any login/startup items like those listed here. The problem is you cannot safe mode boot with Filevault on.

So if we want to eliminate these startup items as the problem, you have two options. You can either start uninstalling these startup items (I would start with the VPN service then maybe Spotify) in hopes one of those is the issue. Or you can turn off Filevault and wait for it to unencrypt, then do a safe mode boot and see if the problem persists in safe mode.

If the problem goes away in safe mode that proves it is one of your startup/login items causing a conflict.

When you said this happened when you first got the machine, had you already imported your data when this happened? If the Mac was new and you used the import feature during system setup that would have imported all these third party utilities like VPN etc from your previous Mac and maybe caused all this. But if you turned it on and did nothing but make a new account and never installed or imported anything at all, and you still got lockups, I would say you got a bad Mac out of the box.

You could also try running the Apple Hardware Test to see if that picks up anything.

Let us know what you come up with.
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
I didn't import anything during the initial installation, it froze down when I was about to choose a wireless network and connect to it. I'll check my options of returning the product and getting a new model.

I don't have the VPN app installed anymore, yet there are leftovers. That's strange because I used App Cleaner.

Could anyone explain to me how I remove Daemon objects?

Also, is it common that these two are failing / how do I fix it?

[failed] com.apple.AOSNotificationOSX.plist
[failed] com.apple.wdhelper.plist
 
Last edited:

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
29,178
8,826
California
I didn't import anything during the initial installation, it froze down when I was about to choose a wireless network and connect to it. I'll check my options of returning the product and getting a new model.

I don't have the VPN app installed anymore, yet there are leftovers. That's strange because I used App Cleaner.

Could anyone explain to me how I remove Daemon objects?

Also, is it common that these two are failing / how do I fix it?

[failed] com.apple.AOSNotificationOSX.plist
[failed] com.apple.wdhelper.plist
Look in these folders for that third party stuff and dump it.

/Library/Extensions/
/Library/LaunchAgents/
/Library/LaunchDaemons/

But if you were getting this with nothing but a new account and nothing installed, I think you have bigger hardware problems and should go get an exchange.

Kernel Extensions:
[not loaded] foo.tap (1.0) Support
[not loaded] foo.tun (1.0) Support
I think this is also part of the VPN.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
May 16, 2013
2,485
109
Kansas, USA
Since you're still in warranty I'd take it to your nearest Apple Store or Authorized Repair Store. If you don't have those in your area, you can send it in for repairs after contacting AppleCare in your country. A relatively new rMBP should not be acting this way. They should either cover the repairs or offer you a replacement machine.
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
Unfortunately, Apple is not represented in Norway yet.

The store told me I could get an exchange within the first 14 days, but since it's been four weeks, it can be reviewed by a technician and sent for repair if needed. I'll consider this but I'm in need of a computer in the nearest future, so I can't afford waiting weeks for my computer being evaluated.

I've been extremely pleased with the performance in the first 3 weeks, expect the crash during startup installation. The last three days have been reminding me of my old Windows XP computer :(

Either way, I've uninstalled unnecessary Launch Daemons and Startup Items and will reboot the system and see then. Thanks everyone for help, this is a great community, even though I'd be happier if I didn't have a reason to contact it (other than positive).
 

jakeng

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2014
17
0
Oslo, Norway
I'll definitely try this diagnostic tool as well.

It says:
Important: If your Mac was released after June 2013, you will use Apple Diagnostics rather than Apple Hardware Test (AHT). See Using Apple Diagnostics for instructions.
Should I then do Apple Diagnostics or do you insist on AHT?