Concerns on the newly acquired 17 inch macbook pro 2011

[howareyoukk]

I think one thing to note is that dGPU problems are not as slowly degrading as you seem to allude towards. It's more of a switch. On =working. Off =broken. Just because it's working now doesn't mean it cant break any second.

The threshold to when then GPUs breaks, if it does, it might not, is very slight and quick. You could run a defective GPU to 99% of its death threshold and it could run forever. That one time for whatever reason it hits 100% its toast.

Also You can watch with a heat monitor internal temperatures, but what happens if you are GPU encode something or rendering something In the GPU. As soon as you see the heat jump up your gonna shut your computer down? Harder with a laptop cause of the battery. But doesn't that seem impossible? If the GPU hit that 100% braking point it's toast before you can do anything to to stop it.

I think my point is you can't say a GPU is healthy just because it's never been fried before.

I think. If you wanted to get serious. I Would see if Apple replaced the 17" close to the serial numbers you want to buy.

noted ! 🙂 thanks for replying back. 🙂 and i think i should allow myself to be optimistic for 2 seconds: what if the machine indeeds perform ok for years and here i am worrying if i should return it straight away. I guess i am tired of making assumptions after all these days.

 

[Queen6]

Thanks for the detailed input again. I use my mac with an external monitor a lot so I guess i need to monitor the temperature more closely. Your testimony of a fully functional 2011 macbook pro 15 inch is quite encouraging to a new user of the 2011 mac such as myself, one last question if you dont mind: at this point if your newly ordered 2011 17 inch is on the way and it is known for dgpu fault, will you still keep it and try your best to maintain it or return it straightaway (p.s. the seller claims testing was done and no problems were found) thanks 🙂

Frankly there is no way to test with absolute certainty, as you can stress test the dGPU, and or have Apple check it out. All passing with flying colours, only for the dGPU to fail shortly after, nor is it entirely predictable. Unfortunately it`s the nature of the the failure mechanism. I would hate to tell you that your MPB is not an issue, as I am simply not in a position too assure of the same, nor is anyone else. It`s a 5 year old consumer device, with a checked history...

As for the keeping or returning I can only best put it like this; You clearly very much want a 17" MBP:

• Can you deal with the repair cost of replacing the Logic Board; note replacement Logic Boards are likely to refurbished?
• Are you willing to have repairs undertaken outside of Apple`s domain?
• Can you write off the $1500 and it not be a significant issue?
• Not all sellers are fully upfront on their usage of such hardware.

If you really want a 17" and can deal with the above, then why not, as it`s what you want and your not going in "eyes closed". Far as I know the majority of the failures have been related to the 15" as it simply runs hotter, so the 17" is a safer bet in that respect. Some study here on MR might green some more insight on the 15" versus 17".

In all honesty for $1500 I believe that you would be far better served by a 15" Retina, you can always have a professional apply a matte protector to the display and display size is mitigated by the use of an external. If your 17" was much cheaper it might be a different story. Just for perspective, I just recent bought a new i7 Surface Book for just over $1900. Nor does this answer bring any joy, as clearly you heart & mind is set on the 17" MBP 🙁 Simply put it`s a risk, nor is it quantifiable...

Q-6

 

[howareyoukk]

Frankly there is no way to test with absolute certainty, as you can stress test the dGPU, and or have Apple check it out. All passing with flying colours, only for the dGPU to fail shortly after, nor is it entirely predictable. Unfortunately it`s the nature of the the failure mechanism. I would hate to tell you that your MPB is not an issue, as I am simply not in a position too assure of the same, nor is anyone else. It`s a 5 year old consumer device, with a checked history...

As for the keeping or returning I can only best put it like this; You clearly very much want a 17" MBP:

• Can you deal with the repair cost of replacing the Logic Board; note replacement Logic Boards are likely to refurbished?
• Are you willing to have repairs undertaken outside of Apple`s domain?
• Can you write off the $1500 and it not be a significant issue?
• Not all sellers are fully upfront on their usage of such hardware.

If you really want a 17" and can deal with the above, then why not, as it`s what you want and your not going in "eyes closed". Far as I know the majority of the failures have been related to the 15" as it simply runs hotter, so the 17" is a safer bet in that respect. Some study here on MR might green some more insight on the 15" versus 17".

In all honesty for $1500 I believe that you would be far better served by a 15" Retina, you can always have a professional apply a matte protector to the display and display size is mitigated by the use of an external. If your 17" was much cheaper it might be a different story. Just for perspective, I just recent bought a new i7 Surface Book for just over $1900. Nor does this answer bring any joy, as clearly you heart & mind is set on the 17" MBP 🙁 Simply put it`s a risk, nor is it quantifiable...

Q-6

Queen is the winner for today thanks for replying again. I will let u go this time lol 😉 but i will update the status of my machine once i have received it. I am leaving everything in god's hand now 🙂

 

[Queen6]

Queen is the winner for today thanks for replying again. I will let u go this time lol 😉 but i will update the status of my machine once i have received it. I am leaving anything in god's hand now 🙂

Good, keep us informed, may very well turn out be a long & interesting journey. Ultimately do what makes you happy, as that is what really counts 🙂

Q-6

 

[Tycho24]

this is disgusting. the guy wrote about the reliability of the gpu and all he's getting in response is a rant about the cost of the unit. so he paid too much. so what? he wanted a 17" with a matte screen which aren't being made anymore. why doesn't someone try to help him out?

There is no "help" to be had.
You are the one that either didn't read or didn't understand the issue.
The only question was yes/no. (regarding: if there is hardware failure; would he have to pay to fix it).
The only way someone could "help" him would be if they had a tip of how to keep the logic board from ever failing, or a way to get Apple to provide pro bono hardware replacement for an out of warranty older model Mac, at least twice removed from the original owner.
Since neither of those are feasible, it is a charity to emphatically try to dissuade the op from the purchase.
Nobody is saying that he shouldn't get that notebook.... just that he shouldn't overpay for it by a factor of 2.
I admit the $200 comment seemed snarky & rude; but the Swappa post showing them for $750 was the MOST helpful post here!
(yours was the least, btw)
Besides reiterating that if op is going this route, seeking a reasonable deal is a good idea, to offset the possible costs of any repair; I'd add that unless the 17" matte MUST be mobile, it may be a better idea to but a later model w/ no known issues & pair it with a larger external monitor.

 

[iizmoo]

hi thanks for the input and no i am not trolling. I was thinking about returning it and getting refund but then i realised my current mac (macbook pro 2012 non retina, bought it in 2013) has already developed display problem 1 year ago, and the 2012 non retina version is not known of any major defects. Besides, the seller is recommended by a facebook friend and he said he has done thorough testing on the machine (i am guessing the stress tests and etc.). So at this point, with my love towards the 17 inch macbook pro, i will wait for it to arrive and test it under normal usage. If it fails in 3-4 years, i will still fix it by replacing it with a new logic board. Anyways, I rather take a 2010 or 2011 17 inch macbook pro than the newly released 15 inch model with the touchbar design. thanks and goodday.

You seem to really really likes the screen, so anothing thing that might factor in here is portability. Do you really intend to backpack around the 17" monster for the next 3-4 years? I remember those, and they were monsters. If your love is really about the matted screen and you don't need the mobility, there are other options of getting a proper non glossy screen and just plug it in. At $1500, you're at the same price for a 2016 13" MBP base, for 5 years old technologies.

As others have said, failures is like rolling a dice every single second the computer is on, there's just no knowing when it'll quit on you, even with the thermal control methods mentioned, the most that can do is decrease the chance of failure, not assured life extension. 3-4 years is a really really long time, you're looking at a machine that lifed into the 8-9 years range.

You've mentioned stress testing, sometimes that helps. A lot of failures are not necessarily testable. There was case with RAM in the 90s where certain more radioactive isotope were contaminating the manufacturing process. They all tested 100%, and were working fine, but there were a degradation at the atomic level that was abnormal. Ended up with significant failures rate after something like 2-3 years when the contaminant started eating into the components. A lot of failures are just those kind of degradations. It's not that the component aren't fine right now, you can stress test everything at 100% for a month, and they might work. 3 or 6 months from now, something might alter those conditions.

 

[howareyoukk]

You seem to really really likes the screen, so anothing thing that might factor in here is portability. Do you really intend to backpack around the 17" monster for the next 3-4 years? I remember those, and they were monsters. If your love is really about the matted screen and you don't need the mobility, there are other options of getting a proper non glossy screen and just plug it in. At $1500, you're at the same price for a 2016 13" MBP base, for 5 years old technologies.

As others have said, failures is like rolling a dice every single second the computer is on, there's just no knowing when it'll quit on you, even with the thermal control methods mentioned, the most that can do is decrease the chance of failure, not assured life extension. 3-4 years is a really really long time, you're looking at a machine that lifed into the 8-9 years range.

You've mentioned stress testing, sometimes that helps. A lot of failures are not necessarily testable. There was case with RAM in the 90s where certain more radioactive isotope were contaminating the manufacturing process. They all tested 100%, and were working fine, but there were a degradation at the atomic level that was abnormal. Ended up with significant failures rate after something like 2-3 years when the contaminant started eating into the components. A lot of failures are just those kind of degradations. It's not that the component aren't fine right now, you can stress test everything at 100% for a month, and they might work. 3 or 6 months from now, something might alter those conditions.

Thanks for replying and you are right 🙂 I love the form factor as well as the matte screen a lot and in the meantime i need an apple desktop replacement that allows me to stay mobile several times in a month or so. Anyways I guess I have already made the choice when i purchased the laptop (despite the fact that i didnt know about the widespread gpu problem that the 2011 macs have). I will wait for the machine to arrive and test/use it under normal usage and keep you guys updated 🙂 thanks again for the input.
[doublepost=1479069137][/doublepost]

There is no "help" to be had.
You are the one that either didn't read or didn't understand the issue.
The only question was yes/no. (regarding: if there is hardware failure; would he have to pay to fix it).
The only way someone could "help" him would be if they had a tip of how to keep the logic board from ever failing, or a way to get Apple to provide pro bono hardware replacement for an out of warranty older model Mac, at least twice removed from the original owner.
Since neither of those are feasible, it is a charity to emphatically try to dissuade the op from the purchase.
Nobody is saying that he shouldn't get that notebook.... just that he shouldn't overpay for it by a factor of 2.
I admit the $200 comment seemed snarky & rude; but the Swappa post showing them for $750 was the MOST helpful post here!
(yours was the least, btw)
Besides reiterating that if op is going this route, seeking a reasonable deal is a good idea, to offset the possible costs of any repair; I'd add that unless the 17" matte MUST be mobile, it may be a better idea to but a later model w/ no known issues & pair it with a larger external monitor.

thanks for replying. When I first checked the price of the 17 inch macbook on ebay, the ones with upgraded spec (ram ,SSD and hi res display) and are in fairly clean /lightly used condition are around 1000+, especially for the 2011. At that time i didnt know the 2011 models have the gpu problem so i went with the last 17 inch model that apple designed.

 

[jackoatmon]

I'm just going to chime in here and note that:

a) All top spec Mac lines in 2011 had GPU issues (including a full recall on the top spec 27" iMac [source: i had to take mine back three times]). Reason: it was the first year Apple ever really put any semi-serious GPUs in anything other than their Pro towers. They just hadn't quite gotten the hang of it yet in those integrated devices, the way they did by the 2012 models.

b) As a result of the gaffes, they're very, very helpful about fixing said issues at no charge. I don't know if this holds true for the laptop, but if you have an iMac from that year with a failed GPU, they'll replace the whole motherboard no questions asked.

 

[MBPro17]

Hello, I am on my third MBP 17. Bought them all new. By chance I caught the last one, a late 2011.

I ordered it with every option except the matte display, so the processor upgrade to 2.5 GHz, the 512 GB SSD, and the 8 GB RAM. I have since upgraded the RAM to 16 GB. I paid close to $5,000 with tax. As I type this it is in the service center getting a new battery and a new top case (A section of keyboard letters were failing and they said they had to replace the entire top case).

I have had to replace the logic board twice. The first time I was out of warranty and because of where I was living I had to fly to London and replace it at my expense. They were kind enough to do it the same day for about 650 pounds.

The second time was about a year ago and it was covered by Apple. They also reimbursed me for the earlier London replacement as part of their program.

Unless it is extended the program ends in December, 2016. In another year the machine will be classified as "vintage" and Apple will not support it at all, even at one's own expense. I will be bringing it in in December to test the board so if there is any issue I can get a third one under the replacement program. If it is still good I will replace it at my own expense, regardless of condition right before it goes to "Vintage."

I mainly use my machine for surfing the net, Excel, Skype, and Parallels for a couple of applications I need for work. I did used to leave it on all night. I also use a Thunderbolt monitor, sometimes for work, sometimes to watch streaming videos. (A lot of Flash I think.)

After the first replacement I installed the fan control and try and keep an eye on the temperature. I run the fans at 4000 rpm when it is plugged into a power source and don't hesitate to manually put them on maximum if I see the temperature going up.

As I understand it, from reading the class action documents against Apple on this matter, the problem is in the sodder. They used a lead-free sodder to attach the graphics card to the logic board. It is this sodder connection that fails and causes all of the problems.

Why did they go with lead-free? Was it supposed to be for performance? No, it was to comply with an EU environmental regulation that had not even been begun. But Apple wanted to stay ahead of the curve on the environment.

I have been told two contradicting things. I have been told that nothing has been corrected in these replacement boards, and someone else has told me that they have fixed the issue casuing the problems. The technician who told me the second claims that since they started the official replacement program they have not had any come back out of a couple of hundred that they did.

So maybe I am ok now. Maybe the board once Apple started footing the bill is actually fixed. We will see.

Having said all of this, I just want to say it is a great machine and I wish Apple would make them again with the latest retina screen and processors. Until then I plan on keeping my 17 in service as long as I can. My next move is upgrading the SSD which will hopefully give me faster read/write than the one from 2011.

In the muscle car world we say there is no substitute for cubic inches. Here there is no substitute for the extra 2 inches! Bring back the Macbook Pro 17 in '17!!!!

 

[howareyoukk]

Hello, I am on my third MBP 17. Bought them all new. By chance I caught the last one, a late 2011.

I ordered it with every option except the matte display, so the processor upgrade to 2.5 GHz, the 512 GB SSD, and the 8 GB RAM. I have since upgraded the RAM to 16 GB. I paid close to $5,000 with tax. As I type this it is in the service center getting a new battery and a new top case (A section of keyboard letters were failing and they said they had to replace the entire top case).

I have had to replace the logic board twice. The first time I was out of warranty and because of where I was living I had to fly to London and replace it at my expense. They were kind enough to do it the same day for about 650 pounds.

The second time was about a year ago and it was covered by Apple. They also reimbursed me for the earlier London replacement as part of their program.

Unless it is extended the program ends in December, 2016. In another year the machine will be classified as "vintage" and Apple will not support it at all, even at one's own expense. I will be bringing it in in December to test the board so if there is any issue I can get a third one under the replacement program. If it is still good I will replace it at my own expense, regardless of condition right before it goes to "Vintage."

I mainly use my machine for surfing the net, Excel, Skype, and Parallels for a couple of applications I need for work. I did used to leave it on all night. I also use a Thunderbolt monitor, sometimes for work, sometimes to watch streaming videos. (A lot of Flash I think.)

After the first replacement I installed the fan control and try and keep an eye on the temperature. I run the fans at 4000 rpm when it is plugged into a power source and don't hesitate to manually put them on maximum if I see the temperature going up.

As I understand it, from reading the class action documents against Apple on this matter, the problem is in the sodder. They used a lead-free sodder to attach the graphics card to the logic board. It is this sodder connection that fails and causes all of the problems.

Why did they go with lead-free? Was it supposed to be for performance? No, it was to comply with an EU environmental regulation that had not even been begun. But Apple wanted to stay ahead of the curve on the environment.

I have been told two contradicting things. I have been told that nothing has been corrected in these replacement boards, and someone else has told me that they have fixed the issue casuing the problems. The technician who told me the second claims that since they started the official replacement program they have not had any come back out of a couple of hundred that they did.

So maybe I am ok now. Maybe the board once Apple started footing the bill is actually fixed. We will see.

Having said all of this, I just want to say it is a great machine and I wish Apple would make them again with the latest retina screen and processors. Until then I plan on keeping my 17 in service as long as I can. My next move is upgrading the SSD which will hopefully give me faster read/write than the one from 2011.

In the muscle car world we say there is no substitute for cubic inches. Here there is no substitute for the extra 2 inches! Bring back the Macbook Pro 17 in '17!!!!

Hey thanks for sharing with your experience to us. i just hope when it fails apple will kind enough saying "oh we have few spare logic board around and we can fix it for you if you pay a little extra" i think i would pay for a new logic board. Anyways lets hope my 17inch laptop is a fighter 🙂 p.s. the laptop is still on the way.

 

[howareyoukk]

UPDATE:

it seems that I am this bad luck.

The laptop has arrived today and I have tested everything and they are all fine besides the laptop WONT detect an external display. I have tried everything, resetting pram, nvrm, restart, shutdown and etc (everything I have found on the internet). Both of the cable and monitor are tested to be fine as they perform perfectly with my another MacBook Pro 15 inch. The seller is nice enough to agree with a return or exchange. I will probably do so by this weekend if the problem does not "fix" itself by tomorrow. It is very likely I will just exchange for another 17 inch model they have. After only spending 1 day with what it seems to be a faulty 17 inch MacBook Pro, the larger screen with antiglare coating as well as several factors still want me to give a 17inch MacBook Pro another try.

I guess Queen6 was right --- it is probably going to be a long journey.