Confused about HDMI-CEC and the Apple TV

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by bunger, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. bunger macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    #1
    Here is the setup:

    ATV 4k HDR connects to Denon AVR-E300 receiver. The receiver acts as the "hub" for various devices and then it's "monitor output" is to a Samsung tv. Because the Denon handles the device switching, the tv always stays on HDMI 1.

    Both the Denon and the Samsung support HDMI-CEC.

    After reading up on the topic, it seems that clicking a button on the remote should power on the Denon and the TV... but I can't seem to get it to work.

    If I leave both the Denon and the TV set to HDMI control on ( CEC ), the tv with go black. If it turn HDMI control on the TV off, but leave it enabled on the Denon, the Apple doesn't turn anything on... but it controls the volume on the denon.

    At this point, I am just confused and am hoping someone can enlighten me on how it should all work.
     
  2. westrock2000 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    #2
    I have a Denon X-3400H and it's kinda weird. The volume control always works, even when the Apple TV 4K isn't the active source.

    However, when it comes to turning on, it seems that the Apple TV has to turn off the receiver through the sleep function in settings or the receiver has to power off due to inactivity (like after the ATV turns off and the reciever is idle for a while). If either of those happen, the receiver will power back on when the ATV comes on. But if I just walk up and turn off the receiver, then the user has to turn it back on.

    There may be better options in the menu, but with the idle power off, I don't bother with the turning off the receiver that much.
     
  3. techwarrior macrumors 6502a

    techwarrior

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Location:
    Colorado
    #3
    Sorry, can't help other than to provide a vision of how it is supposed to work (mostly).

    My setup is ATV4 <> Sony AV <> Toshiba TV. CEC is enabled on all, and had to tweak a few settings on the Sony AV to get things to work properly, more than just turn on CEC.

    I can turn on, sleep, control Sony volume via Siri remote 99% of the time. Occasionally, the Toshiba TV turns to TV sound instead of receiver. When this happens, have to use the TV remote to change the audio output back to Sony.
     
  4. Michelasso macrumors 6502

    Michelasso

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Location:
    Treviso, Italy
    #4
    I am not exactly sure how it works, but what I have done in my ATV 4K <-> Yamaha AVR <-> Sony Bravia TV setup has been to turn on HDMI-CEC and HDMI ARC in all devices. The only thing not always working is powering the ATV off when powering the TV off. The AVR instead always powers off.
     
  5. priitv8, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018

    priitv8 macrumors 68030

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    Jan 13, 2011
    Location:
    Estonia
    #5
    Sad truth about HDMI-CEC is, that the interoperability seems to be not guaranteed at all.
    In my setup the Sony devices behave the best between themselves, appleTV and Arris IPTV set-top-box have all sorts of weird things happening, randomly. I am unable to register any patterns.
    Lately I even think half of the problem lies in the Android TV itself.
     
  6. techwarrior macrumors 6502a

    techwarrior

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Location:
    Colorado
    #6
    CEC seems to be a loose standard. Not only do manufacturers confuse things by labeling their implementation as a special feature with a name that confuses folks, but they seem to implement with way that promote their own devices as the center of the universe.

    The intent was to create a standard that simply allows control of power, volume control, etc at low level over the data channel on HDMI interfaces.

    bunger Make sure your HDMI cables are up to the task. To be safe, cables that support 4K should take care of it (many cable manufacturers shy away form specifying the HDMi version, perhaps fearing confusion). The cables themselves have apparently not changed since earlier releases, as long as they support High Speed with Ethernet, they should support the latest HDMI standards. But if your cables are standard speed or without Ethernet, you my be missing some of the CE feature compatibility.
     
  7. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #7
    Make sure all devices in the HDMI chain have HDMI CEC enabled. Everyone uses different names, and in some cases multiple names.
    • In the Apple TV it is Control TVs and Receivers
    • In the Samsung TV it is AnyNet+ (HDMI CEC)
    • In the Denon AVR it is HDMI Control
    Some types of power-saving, green features, ECO modes, etc., will set the device to such a low power state that it's not watching for CEC commands. Also, some HDMI switches/splitters might not pass through HDMI CEC. So while troubleshooting, turn off anything related to power saving, and wire up your devices without any HDMI switches/splitters (the Denon AVR itself is okay).

    These are the correct settings so if it still doesn't work, it might be a crappy cable that isn't passing through CEC commands. If you can eliminate that as the cause by replacing all the cables with different brand/models, then you are simply out of luck and you've fallen victim to a loose standard that is well-known to have a multitude problems even when configured correctly.

    At that point, if your goal is to avoid using multiple remotes, then as a workaround consider a SideClick:

    upload_2018-2-26_16-17-45.png
     
  8. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Location:
    Cascadia
    #8
    Sorry to threadjack, do you mind sharing what Sony AV and Toshiba TV you have, and what settings you have? I also have a Sony AV and Toshiba TV, and CEC works with the Sony AV, but not the Toshiba TV - I always have to manually turn on or off the TV. (Advantage: It never tries to change the TV's volume.)
     
  9. priitv8, Feb 26, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018

    priitv8 macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Location:
    Estonia
    #9
    In the CEC network, TV is the hub (device #0). So the basic idea is to use TV remote to control all other devices.
    Does it work for you this way?
     
  10. techwarrior macrumors 6502a

    techwarrior

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Location:
    Colorado
    #10
    Sony STRDH770. Toshiba 55L310U.

    On the TV, Menu > Options> HDMI CEC Control Setup > Enabled (on), TV Auto Power (on), Auto Standby (on), Amp Control (on), Initial Speaker (Receiver).

    This last setting reverts to TV at times, the best I can determine is some sort of race condition, if I use Siri Remote to adjust volume as the ATV display shows on screen, it seems to be OK, but if I don't immediately adjust volume, it reverts to TV. So, it must be waiting for an audio signal during initialization and sending a Volume UP\DOWN signal seems to trick it into recognizing the receiver as the audio device.

    On the Sony, AMP MENU > HDMI > CTRL HDMI > CTRL ON. Also, ...HDMI STBY LINK > ON.

    I think that is it. Without the STBY LINK enabled, waking was slow or intermittent as I recall (did this a year or more back).

    My connections are: ATV4 <> SONY <> TOSHIBA. The TV has ARC, as does the SONY, so it should also work with ATV <> TV <> SONY. I have been meaning to try this to see if the Initial Speaker thing works better with SONY Downstream instead of Upstream.
     
  11. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Location:
    Cascadia
    #11
    Thanks for the info! It appears that my Toshiba TV is too old, doesn't have HDMI CEC in the menu. Shoot. Didn't have to do anything on the Sony receiver, it just worked. (It is funny, for a couple other devices I have connected to the receiver, I would try to use the AppleTV remote to change the volume, and *oops* it would switch inputs to the AppleTV.

    Guess I'll have to keep that receiver remote handy, after all...
     
  12. HobeSoundDarryl, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #12
    OR bypass CEC by using a learning universal remote with macros and punch-through:
    • universal to work with all of your AV stuff
    • learning so that it can "learn" commands from remotes that come with any new stuff you buy (future proofing)
    • macros so you can push a single button and have it execute multiple commands
    • punch-through so that you can assign certain buttons- like volume & mute- to a single device
    Then, leverage these 4 features to basically replicate the desired CEC functionality with CEC turned off on the devices. Most desired use of CEC is relatively simple:
    • turn everything on or off- a sequence of commands via macros assigned to the "on" and "off" buttons can do this (right)
    • use the right input for any given piece of AV equipment. I use a universal remote with an LCD screen so I can assign names to a few buttons. One nearly dedicated button is always "setup." Put the universal remote into whatever mode I want (whatever AV device I'm wanting to watch) and then click "setup" to execute a macro to activate the right (HDMI) input for that device. Training the fam to choose the right mode and then click "setup" is very easy and that will get even a complicated system working for anyone (without having to utilize other, dedicated remotes and home IT department troubleshooting calls).
    • adjust volume- the punch-through option assigns volume up & down and mute to the receiver, regardless of which device connected to that receiver is being used.
    What happens here is that you are basically taking over for sometimes dumb and/or incompatible CEC code in- or not in- various devices, by replicating what you are hoping it will do in another way. A good universal remote will do this very effectively, and one that can "learn" and use "macros" will readily grow with the system as it evolves. It doesn't care about old or new AV tech, as it leans on a fundamental (stable) standard to control everything that is not in flux: infrared and sometimes RF too. And it will deliver another commonly-desired benefit: "one remote to rule them all."

    Personally, I'm a big fan of Universal Remote Control, Inc remotes but there is good competition in this space from entities like Harmony and others too. Key is paying up for the big 4 features: universal, learning, macros and punch-through. A great universal, learning, macro-capable remote with punch-through is not going to cost $10 or $25 (in short: don't be a cheapskate with this tool if you want a good, whole solution). Do the work to find the best one for your situation, then spend the money (one time) and enjoy "one remote to rule them all" for the next decade+.
     
  13. scottlitch macrumors member

    scottlitch

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    #13
    Apple TV seems to have CEC issues with a lot of set ups from speaking with different people. I have a Sony Bravia TV, a Bose Lifestyle Surround system, and Apple TV 4K. The Apple TV instantly wakes the receiver after sleeping. Then, the Bose receiver wakes the TV back up. I have to grab the TV remote and press power to get the TV and receiver off. It's a nuisance.
     

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