Confusion about wifi functionality of the Apple Watch

[fischersd]

pakyook probably meant the phone, not the watch.

Additionally I don't know if we YET know if the watch actually has WIFI SSID DISCOVERY..

The phone is required to join a wifi network and the phone and watch must at least first be paired with bluetooth. The phone MAY simply be telling the watch, "I'm currently connected to this network here is the SSID and PW go connect" and the watch goes and connects without actually trying to discover "networks"

unknown.

We haven't seen any type of discovery screen on the watch yet, we HAVE seem some screens that show what the wifi connection is currently (I think it was a user with some developer access) but I don't think it was also able to show OTHER networks.

We know the phone transfers all of its saved networks to the watch, including credentials. The problem comes with all of the 5GHz SSID's and that the watch doesn't have a 5GHz radio. Need to ensure any network you want to use the watch's wifi on, you have the phone configured for the 2.4GHz network, so the information is sent to the watch.

 

[pakyooh]

Yes, my bad. Was typing that at 1am.

Oddly though I tried just using the 5GHz wifi and now I'm not connecting.

pakyook probably meant the phone, not the watch.

Additionally I don't know if we YET know if the watch actually has WIFI SSID DISCOVERY..

The phone is required to join a wifi network and the phone and watch must at least first be paired with bluetooth. The phone MAY simply be telling the watch, "I'm currently connected to this network here is the SSID and PW go connect" and the watch goes and connects without actually trying to discover "networks"

unknown.

We haven't seen any type of discovery screen on the watch yet, we HAVE seem some screens that show what the wifi connection is currently (I think it was a user with some developer access) but I don't think it was also able to show OTHER networks.

 

[tivoboy]

We know the phone transfers all of its saved networks to the watch, including credentials. The problem comes with all of the 5GHz SSID's and that the watch doesn't have a 5GHz radio. Need to ensure any network you want to use the watch's wifi on, you have the phone configured for the 2.4GHz network, so the information is sent to the watch.

do we know it transfers them all at once at setup, or only when the phone is connecting to a network. Surely there must be some dynamic element to sending this for when either a new setup gets done on the phone or when a password say changes on the network that the phone is connecting to.

I just don't think that the phone and watch SEE the networks separately and decide to connect separately. I think once the phone connects the watch then may connect, with either stored credentials or confirmed credentials from phone?

If Bluetooth is off, when the two devices come back into the LAN area, they will NOT both reconnect. The phone will, but the watch will not

 

[AlliFlowers]

It's a shame. It works great at home where I have total control of my network, but not at work (where I am all day long), where I have no control over anything. I have to install a profile on my phone and Mac to use the network, so it's unlikely it will work with the Watch any time soon.

 

[fischersd]

do we know it transfers them all at once at setup, or only when the phone is connecting to a network. Surely there must be some dynamic element to sending this for when either a new setup gets done on the phone or when a password say changes on the network that the phone is connecting to.

I just don't think that the phone and watch SEE the networks separately and decide to connect separately. I think once the phone connects the watch then may connect, with either stored credentials or confirmed credentials from phone?

If Bluetooth is off, when the two devices come back into the LAN area, they will NOT both reconnect. The phone will, but the watch will not

I think the configuration capabilities on the watch were limited for two reasons:
1) Typing everything in on that very tiny screen would be massively annoying
2) It wasn't deemed to be a significant enough feature to make launch

They each have their own wifi client. Don't believe me? Use messages with the phone off.

btw - if you have your bluetooth off on the phone and you're not in wifi coverage, you've lost the secure connection between the watch and phone. The security handshake is done over bluetooth (so, calling and any application which have a component on the phone will not work).

----------

It's a shame. It works great at home where I have total control of my network, but not at work (where I am all day long), where I have no control over anything. I have to install a profile on my phone and Mac to use the network, so it's unlikely it will work with the Watch any time soon.

Hmm. Many people have had great success using their watches at work. If you know anyone in IT, you should ask if they're using 2.4GHz or 5GHz. If there's any way that they can segment your iPhone to only use the 2.4GHz SSID's, then your watch may be able to connect. (provided they're not also filtering mac addresses - if they are, they need to add the mac address of the watch).

 

[rhsmd1]

hmm.
my watch works on wifi in the office,with BT off, but not at home. home has a better network i think.

 

[tivoboy]

They each have their own wifi client. Don't believe me? Use messages with the phone off.

We know the watch can connect and do all the things without the phone being connected via bluetooth (i've done them all), but I don't think we know enough about the nature of the wifi client on the watch. And we know the phone and the watch must be connected via bluetooth at least initially when coming into a wifi area, or else the watch won't connect to the wifi - even if it has before.

it could be a dumb client that always has to be told what to do, or a client that IF were given access via keyboard or easier entry, would be able to connect on it's own.

We don't yet know if it is a full blown wifi client, but with clearly limited access or entry functionality

edit: and I don't think any of that works when the phone is off, but the watch is on the wifi network..when the phones BLUETOOTH is off, it will do all those things, and not be directly connected to the phone, but when the phone is off completely, all it reports is fails and then ultimately a disconnected shows up.

 

[NavySEAL6]

So, here's the deal: your iPhone has never connected to the 2.4 band of your router before, so the watch has no reference to that (and doesn't see the 5ghz).

Connect your iPhone to the 2.4, then you can connect back to the 5ghz from your phone. The difference is that now your watch knows and has the information to access the 2.4 band. It gets convoluted depending on your router set up, though, that that's a basic expiation and fix, if that's right at all. See CobraPA above.

I tried that but the iPhone already has the password stored.

I my set up is modem -> Verizon router -> hard wired to time capsule(2.4) and Verizon Router (same) -> hard wired to newer airport express (5)

They're technically the same network so they have the same SSID and password and there is a 2.4 signal and a 5 signal

 

[Mascots]

I tried that but the iPhone already has the password stored.

I my set up is modem -> Verizon router -> hard wired to time capsule(2.4) and Verizon Router (same) -> hard wired to newer airport express (5)

They're technically the same network so they have the same SSID and password and there is a 2.4 signal and a 5 signal

Alas, I do not have a solution then sorry. I'm stuck on a 2.4 band right now so I haven't been able to test it out.

 

[friedmud]

Wrong. The watch is given all of the saved networks on your iPhone, including the keys.

I really wish people would search before starting new threads...there's gotta be 4 or 5 wifi threads already.

The watch only has a 2.4GHz radio. It only does 802.11b/g/n, so make sure you aren't using 802.11AC. Make sure your 2.4GHZ and 5GHz each have a unique (different!) SSID. Make sure the 5GHz SSID is NOT on the iPhone, so both are connecting to the 2.4GHz SSID. Someone already mentioned the forget/readd trick to get the watch to pick up the SSID (seem a bit of a bug).

Oh...and one more thing. The security handshake between watch and iPhone is done over bluetooth, so if you go completely out of bluetooth and wifi coverage, you will need to get back into bluetooth range before complete functionality (e.g. phone) is restored.

I wish people like you wouldn't post things as facts that really aren't.

1. Everyone needs to realize that there are a bunch of different routers out there... with slightly different implementations of the standards. What is "true" in one case is not true everywhere. We need to quit YELLING at each other on this forum and start to have a real conversation about what works and what doesn't.

2. You state as a fact that that the 2.4GHz network and 5GHz network must have different SSIDs. This is not true in all cases. For me (and others) , everything works fine with a "normal" setup with my router having one SSID and both 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks operating.

Here is a picture from my router showing my phone (Dereks-iPhoneqz) and my watch (DereksApleWatch) both connected to my router (on one SSID) at different frequencies (5GHz and 2.4GHz respectively)... and everything works fine (I have bluetooth off on my phone right at this moment and I can still launch Apps on my watch and make phone calls and everything.

What we need to do is start cataloging what routers we have. For me, I'm using the newest Verizon Fios router: FiOS-G1100

3. You state some incorrect "facts" about the security handshake that are not true. Even with my phone off... and if I power cycle my Watch it still reconnects to my wifi and can send/receive messages and receive email, etc. (Note: you can't launch 3rd party apps without *some* kind of connection (BT or Wifi) with your phone).

There have been numerous reports of people leaving their phones behind and their watch still connects to their office wifi or to wifi at a friend's house. It's pretty clear that the Watch gains all of the Wifi connection info from your iPhone when you pair them... and then uses that as much as it can.

Anyway. Let's quit yelling at each other this and start to have a discussion. One thing we really need is to catalogue the routers... and what worked or didn't work with each router type...

 

[friedmud]

Forgot the image!

 

[friedmud]

We know the phone transfers all of its saved networks to the watch, including credentials. The problem comes with all of the 5GHz SSID's and that the watch doesn't have a 5GHz radio. Need to ensure any network you want to use the watch's wifi on, you have the phone configured for the 2.4GHz network, so the information is sent to the watch.

See my post just above that the phone and Watch definitely can be on two different frequencies on the same SSID and still work.

It probably depends on your router. I know that my older router would only allow you to use either 5GHz _or_ 2.4GHz... not both at the same time. That would obviously cause problems if you had it on 5GHz because then the watch couldn't connect.

 

[xraydoc]

I have an Apple Time Capsule (tall 802.11ac model) and an Apple AirPort Extreme (also tall 802.11ac model) in my home.

Both connected to my FIOS router (with the router wifi disabled). Both base stations are required for full coverage in my home. Both are configured for same SSID and each 2.4GHz & 5GHz networks have the same SSID. So, two wifi bases times two frequencies each equals 4 separate wifi signals, all with same network name.

My watch will connect to the 2.4GHz segment while my phone connects to the 5GHz 802.11ac segment (tested via speed test which proves it's not on a 2.4GHz 802.11b/g network).

I can confirm -- at least with Apple wifi bases -- the SSID names do not have to be unique for the phone and watch to communicate.

Even with my phone connected to one base station and the watch on the other (by location in the home AND by verifying MAC addresses in the Airport logs), the watch is fully functional well outside Bluetooth range.

I can leave my phone on the charger upstairs and be in the basement at the other end of the house and my watch will receive all notifications and calls, and apps like Weather, Dark Sky and Hue work perfectly (though definitely no faster, lol).

**This situation, unfortunately, does not occur at work on their wifi, almost certainly because of how tight and restrictive their firewalls and port blocks are. Almost nothing works there, save but for a few "approved" network functions.

 

[Gav2k]

I have an Apple Time Capsule (tall 802.11ac model) and an Apple AirPort Extreme (also tall 802.11ac model) in my home.

Both connected to my FIOS router (with the router wifi disabled). Both base stations are required for full coverage in my home. Both are configured for same SSID and each 2.4GHz & 5GHz networks have the same SSID.

My watch will connect to the 2.4GHz segment while my phone connects to the 5GHz 802.11ac segment (tested via speed test which proves it's not on a 2.4GHz 802.11b/g network).

I can confirm -- at least with Apple wifi bases -- the SSID names do not have to be unique for the phone and watch to communicate.

Even with my phone connected to one base station and the watch on the other (by location in the home AND by verifying MAC addresses in the Airport logs), the watch is fully functional well outside Bluetooth range.

I can leave my phone on the charger upstairs and be in the basement at the other end of the house and my watch will receive all notifications and calls, and apps like Weather, Dark Sky and Hue work perfectly (though definitely no faster, lol).

I can confirm this too works fine

 

[friedmud]

I also just tested wifi reconnection by the Watch with my iPhone completely off. I can confirm two things:

1. Even with your iPhone completely off... if you turn your Apple Watch completely off and back on... it will reconnect to wifi all on its own and be able to send and receive iMessages (and do the other things the Watch can do on its own without an iPhone).

2. With the iPhone completely off I walked down the street until I was WELL out of Wifi range. I couldn't send iMessages anymore with my Watch. However, upon returning to my house the Watch reconnected to Wifi and my messages went through immediately.

This is all with the Verizon G1100 router using both 5GHz and 2.4GHz on the same SSID.

So... the Watch definitely stores credentials for wifi networks... and can reconnect itself to wifi... even in complete absence of an iPhone.

 

[friedmud]

Here's an interesting tidbit. After having my phone off... and having my Watch reconnect to wifi on its own. I then turned my phone on. Bluetooth was still off on my phone (from an earlier trial)... and even though my phone connected to Wifi... the Watch still shows as "not connected" to my phone (but the Watch was still working independently using wifi).

I then turned bluetooth on on my phone... and the Watch immediately saw the phone.

Next... I turned bluetooth off on my phone... and everything keeps working like normal (even third party apps).

So... things I've petsonally tested:

1. The Watch can connect to wifi independently (as I showed above - your phone can be completely off)

2. The iPhone can connect to wifi independently (obviously)

3. The Watch and iPhone can be on different frequencies on the same SSID (on mine they are on 2.4GHz and 5GHz respectively and still working)

4. If the Watch connects independently to wifi... then it will not "find" your iPhone on the network. They have to chat over bluetooth first.

5. Once they've found each other on bluetooth you can then turn bluetooth off and everything will stay working over wifi (even third party apps, etc.)

 

[iRebound]

I got my watch to connect to my 2.4GHz wifi.

What I did was connect my iPhone to the 2.4GHz wifi and then turnoff bluetooth. It takes a few seconds for the watch to recognize that bluetooth is off and it will switch to wifi. I was able to make calls and use all apps. After everything is working, I switched from 2.4GHz on my iPhone to the 5GHz network.

 

[fischersd]

Here's an interesting tidbit. After having my phone off... and having my Watch reconnect to wifi on its own. I then turned my phone on. Bluetooth was still off on my phone (from an earlier trial)... and even though my phone connected to Wifi... the Watch still shows as "not connected" to my phone (but the Watch was still working independently using wifi).

I then turned bluetooth on on my phone... and the Watch immediately saw the phone.

Next... I turned bluetooth off on my phone... and everything keeps working like normal (even third party apps).

So... things I've petsonally tested:

1. The Watch can connect to wifi independently (as I showed above - your phone can be completely off)

2. The iPhone can connect to wifi independently (obviously)

3. The Watch and iPhone can be on different frequencies on the same SSID (on mine they are on 2.4GHz and 5GHz respectively and still working)

4. If the Watch connects independently to wifi... then it will not "find" your iPhone on the network. They have to chat over bluetooth first.

5. Once they've found each other on bluetooth you can then turn bluetooth off and everything will stay working over wifi (even third party apps, etc.)

Thanks for testing all of that, but you've proven what was already known.

 

[friedmud]

Thanks for testing all of that, but you've proven what was already known.

Well... I started testing because you posted something not universally true. You posted:

It only does 802.11b/g/n, so make sure you aren't using 802.11AC. Make sure your 2.4GHZ and 5GHz each have a unique (different!) SSID. Make sure the 5GHz SSID is NOT on the iPhone, so both are connecting to the 2.4GHz SSID. Someone already mentioned the forget/readd trick to get the watch to pick up the SSID (seem a bit of a bug).

Which is not right. They work fine with my router when the phone is on 5GHz and the watch is on 2.4GHz on the same SSID.

 

[fischersd]

Well... I started testing because you posted something not universally true. You posted:

Which is not right. They work fine with my router when the phone is on 5GHz and the watch is on 2.4GHz on the same SSID.

And we've seen lots of circumstances proving the opposite. It's possible that the watch may remember the frequency of the SSID after the fact and not get confused again, but I wouldn't advise non-technical users to do that.

 

[friedmud]

The watch doesn't "remember" a frequency at all. Neither does the phone... or your laptop... the frequency is negotiated with the router at time of connection.

I'm not even sure what you mean by "remember the frequency of the SSID after the fact and not get confused again". After what?

I agree that it is possible for some routers to have trouble negotiating to a 2.4GHz frequency with the watch. And it is definitely possible that with a problematic router you may be able to help things by separating the frequencies into two different SSIDs and force your phone/watch combo to the 2.4GHz one. I never said any absolutes.

I was merely pointing out that you smashed into this perfectly harmless thread acting like you have all of the answers with 100% certainty... and you are not right.

And if you're going to talk about things you "wouldn't advise non-technical users to do"... high atop _my_ list is asking them to log into their router and partition up their network to separate frequencies.

Last thing I'll say about the 2.4GHz vs 5GHz thing: It's obvious that Apple would not have made it a requirement to partition your network into separate frequencies. If that were the case then a large percentage of people buying Apple Watches would be experiencing trouble because most modern routers out there are serving up both 2.4GHz and 5GHz on the same SSID. Even Apple routers come that way out of the box.

The watch did not come with a pamphlet explaining how to partition your network and force the phone onto 2.4GHz... because it's unnecessary most of the time.

 

[fischersd]

The watch doesn't "remember" ... because it's unnecessary most of the time.

There have been LOTS of people on here having issues due to the 2.4/5GHz radios in their WAPs broadcasting the same SSID. I'm sure there's quite a few that call Apple support as well.

If you can have the iPhone connect to the 5GHz band after the fact and it doesn't cause the watch grief, that's great!

Switching to 2.4GHz fixed a lot of peoples issues.

 

[friedmud]

If you can have the iPhone connect to the 5GHz band after the fact and it doesn't cause the watch grief, that's great!

After *what* fact? I still don't understand what you think is happening here.

You have to remember that there is a disproportionate amount of people with issues that show up here. Apple has sold millions of these watches (maybe only a few hundred thousand delivered so far though). If there were major issues with dealing with networks that are dual frequency then Apple would need an update immediately.

 

[betabeta]

Apps work way faster over my wifi, just seconds to load apps, something has to be wrong with my iphone 6 bluetooth, takes well over a minute to start the weather app.

And wifi only worked once I added my watches wifi MAC address to my router since I forgot I set the router to mac filtering, also needed to restart both iphone and watch.

 

[zmunkz]

I have yet to see my watch remain "connected" once I've left Bluetooth range, but while staying on the same Wi-Fi network. Could this be a result of the 2.4 GHz verse 5 GHz thing?