JSRinUK
macrumors 6502a
Thanks. I'll weigh up both options and make a decision on that. Thanks for your help.
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Considering Apple TV 4K for the first time
- Thread starter The-Real-Deal82
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Juicy Box
macrumors 604
Yeah, it should work, but for the price of the adapter, you can get a current FireStick or Fire TV and replace your old one.
JSRinUK
macrumors 6502a
Juicy Box
macrumors 604
I am not sure of what your TV situation is, but you could also look into getting a new smart TV. The priced has really dropped on TVs, and depending on the size, you could probably get a new smart TV with Roku or some other OS with the Apple TV app for around the price of a new ATV4k.
I prefer the ATV4k, but at its price, I could understand why people are looking at alternatives.
Yeah, I see people confuse the three all the time. I think many people called this as soon as Apple announced their streaming service's name.
Although, I think @JSRinUK was confusing two of them (or using the same name for two different things) in the same sentence, which I have not seen before. I had to read the post a few times to make sense of it.
JSRinUK
macrumors 6502a
A new smart TV isn't an option. Buying the iPhone SE was an excessive push on my budget that will take some time to bounce back from. No more big purchases for me for the time being. 😃 I am looking into the possibility of Roku or replacing my Fire TV stick, though.
In my head, I recognised that there was a streaming service (for which I'd get a year free) as well as a hardware device (which I'd need to buy if I wanted to watch the streaming service on my TV). Getting the (free) streaming service onto my TV without the expense of the hardware device was my quandary, which I perhaps didn't explain clearly enough.
Now, thanks to replies here, I'm looking at ways of doing that using alternative hardware devices.
throAU
macrumors G4
I've had 3 ATVs, including 2x 4k models (different rooms) so obviously I'm a fan
What I like:
What I like:
- airplay
- the exclusive content
- fairly high quality streaming, Siri integration with HomeKit, etc.
- I can stream stuff to it from my Plex box using the Plex app
- integration with Apple Music subscription, Apple Arcade subscription, etc.
- the UI is pretty trash (seriously Apple? this is your best shot at a 10 foot interface?)
- the remote is absolutely freaking awful (download the iOS remote app, its way better. the OLD appleTV remote was way better on the ATV 2 as well. physical buttons work! they're tactile! you can feel for them in the dark!). It falls down the edge of cushions, the trackpad on it is garbage, its difficult to feel which way up it is in the dark or low light, etc. Use the remote app or if you're lucky (like me) the remote for your TV may work with the ATV as well.
I have two Apple TVs and a Roku. Apple TV4K and the previous non-4K version. The Roku is in the basement. They all do what they are suppossed to do and as others have said if you are in the Apple ecosystem it makes sense to go with Apple.
The Apple boxes seem to be higher quality in terms of build and even though the GUI could use some more work, I've gotten used to it and like it.
Yes, they are more expensive, but they really won't break most people's banks.
The Apple boxes seem to be higher quality in terms of build and even though the GUI could use some more work, I've gotten used to it and like it.
Yes, they are more expensive, but they really won't break most people's banks.
For the OP, with so many Apple devices already in the mix, the Apple TV makes total sense to me. I love the 4th gen, although I can’t wait for Apple to release the next box.
On that next box, it’ll be interesting to see what they do with the remote. Personally, I love it. It’s interesting how polarizing that device is.
On that next box, it’ll be interesting to see what they do with the remote. Personally, I love it. It’s interesting how polarizing that device is.
For those who say the Apple TV UI is trash, I'm wondering what you're comparing it to. Certainly can't be the Roku or Fire TV because both of those are much, much worse.
With Roku, you've got half the screen filled non-apps. Either a giant menu on the left side, or wasted space with....something (looks like a blank movie theater screen) on the right. Only three apps per row, and the selected app is always on the top, so as you're scrolling up you don't know what app you're going to be on until you're on it. It makes for a poor experience.
And with Fire TV it's even worse. The home screen has a single row with all of my apps (unless I click into the "See All"). Then an ad on the home screen. Then a bunch of stuff Amazon wants to suggest to me. And more suggestions and more suggestions.
Neither Roku nor Apple TV let me put apps into Folders. So I can't group my sports apps, or kids stuff, together. It's just all one big messy list.
With Apple TV's home screen I get so many more apps showing all at once. I can group them into logical folders, and I easily sort them and it's much easier to actually find what I'm looking for in fewer clicks (or swipes, as the case may be).
With Roku, you've got half the screen filled non-apps. Either a giant menu on the left side, or wasted space with....something (looks like a blank movie theater screen) on the right. Only three apps per row, and the selected app is always on the top, so as you're scrolling up you don't know what app you're going to be on until you're on it. It makes for a poor experience.
And with Fire TV it's even worse. The home screen has a single row with all of my apps (unless I click into the "See All"). Then an ad on the home screen. Then a bunch of stuff Amazon wants to suggest to me. And more suggestions and more suggestions.
Neither Roku nor Apple TV let me put apps into Folders. So I can't group my sports apps, or kids stuff, together. It's just all one big messy list.
With Apple TV's home screen I get so many more apps showing all at once. I can group them into logical folders, and I easily sort them and it's much easier to actually find what I'm looking for in fewer clicks (or swipes, as the case may be).
Juicy Box
macrumors 604
I don't remember seeing many posts of people that prefer Roku's or Fire TV's UI over the tvOS, but I agree with what you said comparing the differences.
I have a few Fire devices and my main TV has Roku built in, and the UI for both seem really, really dated. A little dated aesthetically, but really dated functionally.
I honestly think the UI on the 1st gen ATV is much more simple but functionally better.
While I guess most of the time is spent inside of the apps, I have to say that for the most part, tvOS is a joy to use.
Roku and Fire is, at best, usable.
Once in the apps though, there is little difference between them, and depending on the app, I sometimes prefer Roku and/or Fire TV over the tvOS version.
Thanks for all your replies people 
.
I’ve continued doing all the research I can on this and listening to the feedback here. My wife wants to try the Amazon Cube and to be honest it makes a lot of sense. She can get a deal knocking £30 off it as I mentioned a few days ago. Although we are a very Apple household we’ve also bought into the Amazon system with 4 Echo’s around the home and an unlimited Amazon Music subscription along with a few other devices linked. We bought into this a couple of years back and considered HomePod at the time. We ended up going with Amazon due to the better voice recognition and the fact an Echo was only £80 each as opposed to £249 for the HomePod. This meant we could have multiple devices around the home and not just a single. Apple arrived late and was unfortunately uncompetitive on price in this department IMO. I think perhaps the Cube will integrate a little better into this system we have and they seem to do much the same thing.
It may be that we try the Amazon for a year and if Apple overcomes it’s shortcomings and releases the next generation that blows everything else away, we might switch. I was a little more reassured that there is an app for iPhone on the Cube too. As long as we can get Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV and YouTube 4K, I think it’ll suit us for now. 🙂
.I’ve continued doing all the research I can on this and listening to the feedback here. My wife wants to try the Amazon Cube and to be honest it makes a lot of sense. She can get a deal knocking £30 off it as I mentioned a few days ago. Although we are a very Apple household we’ve also bought into the Amazon system with 4 Echo’s around the home and an unlimited Amazon Music subscription along with a few other devices linked. We bought into this a couple of years back and considered HomePod at the time. We ended up going with Amazon due to the better voice recognition and the fact an Echo was only £80 each as opposed to £249 for the HomePod. This meant we could have multiple devices around the home and not just a single. Apple arrived late and was unfortunately uncompetitive on price in this department IMO. I think perhaps the Cube will integrate a little better into this system we have and they seem to do much the same thing.
It may be that we try the Amazon for a year and if Apple overcomes it’s shortcomings and releases the next generation that blows everything else away, we might switch. I was a little more reassured that there is an app for iPhone on the Cube too. As long as we can get Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV and YouTube 4K, I think it’ll suit us for now. 🙂
Buy the A12X 'kick az' powered ATV when it arrives.
It must be relatively imminent.
The no 4k YouTube is a bit of a 'thing' but it's not a deal breaker. There's places other than YouTube too. The remote isn't the best but it's mediocre with class.
Apple mirroring is good. Access to Apple Arcade is a huge plus and the incoming A12X will have power to delight at the current ATV price point.
I'd hold your horses until Apple make their announcement. Most likely at WWDC? Imminent.
Azrael.
Ordered the Cube for £62 in the end with additional discounts, will get it Sunday and give an update. For that price it was worth getting it sooner to test out. The Apple Arcade feature doesn’t really appeal to be honest as I don’t play computer games and my kids aren’t interested either. We are about to sell a Nintendo Switch which has been turned on twice since we bought it.
Well the Cube arrived yesterday and was really easy to set up. For £62 I think I can’t go wrong. Just subscribed to Apple TV too, so now have that to add to Prime and Netflix all in one place.
It’s got me wondering if the next generation Apple 4K box will be a bit cheaper? I was happy to pay £179 originally but when the competition are available for half that price and more, I’m questioning the reason to be honest. I know we pay for the exclusivity of iOS with our iPhones etc, but these boxes offer a similar product bar a few exclusive features. Someone mentioned Apple Arcade so I suppose it boils down to what you want the box for. Impressed so far though and will be watching the development of these devices going forward
It’s got me wondering if the next generation Apple 4K box will be a bit cheaper? I was happy to pay £179 originally but when the competition are available for half that price and more, I’m questioning the reason to be honest. I know we pay for the exclusivity of iOS with our iPhones etc, but these boxes offer a similar product bar a few exclusive features. Someone mentioned Apple Arcade so I suppose it boils down to what you want the box for. Impressed so far though and will be watching the development of these devices going forward
If all you're using it as is a tv 'box' it should be fine. £62 won't break the bank and allows you to sub to digital/streaming channels eg Neflix etc. I like the fact that it's a black cube. A design I would have liked for the Mac Mini. 😉
We'll see how the Apple offering compares. ATV isn't cheap. And it should offer more bang for buck at that price. £179 is a lot of money for a streaming tv box and light casual gaming.
It could stand being a bit cheaper. £99 would be a better price point whilst at the same time beefing up it's specs eg A12X.
They'll make plenty of money off Arcade and ATV streaming sub.
Azrael.
We'll see how the Apple offering compares. ATV isn't cheap. And it should offer more bang for buck at that price. £179 is a lot of money for a streaming tv box and light casual gaming.
It could stand being a bit cheaper. £99 would be a better price point whilst at the same time beefing up it's specs eg A12X.
They'll make plenty of money off Arcade and ATV streaming sub.
Azrael.
Yeah I agree. Apple sat back and let Amazon dominate the voice assistant market and invested little in making Siri more reliable. Now the streaming service seems about as good as Amazons but I’m struggling now to see what it offers for more than double the price? I think they need to consider this on the next release if the Cube is as good as I have now experienced. Just my opinion though and some will perhaps buy by the brand regardless 🙂
I'm currently using a Fire TV 4k stick and it definitely gets the job done for me. Still way better than the default OS on most TVs. I would still be interested in an Apple TV due to the cleaner, ad-free interface and better overall integration. However, I wouldn't be willing to pay 3-4x the price of the Fire TV 4k stick. So I'd like to see a <100$ Apple TV version (possibly a stick). I doubt it'll happen though. 😄
Yes. It's still early days for Arcade. It's significant that Apple has set up this service.
And that follows with?
Better hardware to push?
Even better games for?
Apple Arcade.
The 'A' list will arrive sooner or later.
Azrael.
[automerge]1589295907[/automerge]
Really should be an £99 ATV.
But a £129-£149 ATV with A12X would be too bad for the hardware offered. But the former £99 price would make it far more compelling compared to the competition. It would put it in the kick az console lite territory for casual gaming.
Azrael.
One of the eternal criticisms of Apple's culture, even under Jobs...was 'follow through.'
Eg. 'We want Apple to be the best gaming platform in the world.' Steve Jobs.
Years later gaming on the Mac didn't have GL parity with windows. Tower were upsold and over priced with each iteration, 3rd party support in terms of other suppliers eg. Nvidia eliminated. Didn't follow up the relationship with John McCarmack. Let Bungie and Marathon (global franchise) slip from their fingers.
Or the iMac Pro.
or the Mini.
or the Mac Pro.
ATV....a long time since the last update.
All ideas or desk tops that might have had good initial ideas or concepts but Apple let them sit and rot.
Great out the gate but not so good in the long term maintainence of the concept.
There are exceptions to this in terms of the OS. And in terms of eg. iPhone. But that's where the 'real' money is. So 'most' of the focus seems to be on that.
To this thread? Drop the price by near half and put an A12X in it. Price to go and make the money off the game and tv subs. Price the hardware units to go with compelling hardware. Compelling hardware with lots of units and game dev's will come. Movies and services will come. Got to get that installed base higher.
Azrael.
Yeah money wasn’t an issue and if Apple TV had been standout much much better, then I’d have tried it. The more and more I looked into it, I just couldn’t see enough to convince me it was three times as good as the Amazon Cube. I’ve been using the cube now for nearly 5 days and the quality is good, voice recognition is reliable and the interface is clean and easy to use. I can’t really complain.
I definitely think Apple need to aim to be around the £130 mark if they want to remain competitive. You only have to look at the HomePod to realise why it lost so much ground to Amazon. Sure it’s a better speaker with superior sound quality, but the Amazon Echo is good enough in most homes, and is £80 as opposed to Apples £249. Plus Alexa is so much more accurate than Siri which is one of my frustrations with the iPhone and Apple Watch. I use both voice assistants dozens of times daily.
ColdShadow
Cancelled
All I can say is that the remote is REALLY annoying to use,specially for fast forwarding/ rewinding,and inability to play YouTube 4K is a huge negative for many including me (deal breaker).
I own an Nvidia Shield and recently picked up a discounted Apple TV 4k but these 2 problems are making it far less appealing than the Shield.
Apple TV 4K is great for iTunes content and AirPlay for everything else Nvidia Shield is either better or equal.
I own an Nvidia Shield and recently picked up a discounted Apple TV 4k but these 2 problems are making it far less appealing than the Shield.
Apple TV 4K is great for iTunes content and AirPlay for everything else Nvidia Shield is either better or equal.
Actually I find fast forwarding is where it shines. Not limited to a fast forward speed, you just scroll to where you want. Same thing for rewinding, 10 second rewind, and frame by frame scroll. But it takes quite a while to learn how to use it.
You can always use another remote with the Apple TV, such as a Harmony, but you give up these features.
In regard to remote FF, I suspect some people struggle with it because they don’t pause first. After pausing you can FF or RR at light speed. Nice, when you get the hang of it.
For 10 second intervals, tapping on the far left OT right of the trackpad MOSTLY works well for me, but I do see glitches with that, mostly with YouTube.
For 10 second intervals, tapping on the far left OT right of the trackpad MOSTLY works well for me, but I do see glitches with that, mostly with YouTube.