I had a fully loaded Lexus ES350 for almost 10 years and it still runs great. In retrospect, the car is slightly too big and not as agile as I would like it to be but I do like level of comfort and quiet ride. I was thinking about new car but wanted it to have upgraded computing abilities. I hoped Apple's car project would materialize sooner rather than later but this seems to be still at least several years away. I was watching Tesla 3 and felt that it may have been rushed to marked but I do like idea of instant torque, quiet ride without ICE and especially having an autopilot a lot. I believe that within next couple years electric vehicles will become more mature as established automakers enter the market, hopefully with more polished and robust self driving solutions. I can lease an electric car and see where technology is in 3 years, but does electric car usually make financial sense for leasing?
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Considering next vehicle, should I get an electric car?
- Thread starter radiologyman
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Yes you should. I own a Volt but at my work 6 people have picked up plug-ins over the last couple years. It's a good community of plug-in owners who help each other out. The guy who works next to me bought a Model S a few years ago and then recently bought the Model 3. He loves the autopilot + all the tech on the Model 3. Also their charging network is good.
Obviously it has to meet your transportation needs. I went PHEV because I often have long 300+ mile trips. In my opinion, PHEV is the "best of all worlds" because 95% of my driving is electric but I've still got the reserve just in case.
Personally, I like being able to "wake up" with a "full tank" of electrons every morning. I never realized how much I hated getting gas because I do it so infrequently now.
Jaguar I-Pace is also getting good reviews. But with these newer BEVs from the major manufacturers that still make ICE cars, I would look very closely at the dealer network and make sure they're educated and have the tech support to work out teething pains. GM had issues (now worked out) with having enough "Volt-certified" techs to work on their cars and sometimes parts was an issue early on. Unsure if the other manufacturers jumping in would have the same problems or would be better prepared.
With that said, I would go for it. It will completely transform your driving experience.
Obviously it has to meet your transportation needs. I went PHEV because I often have long 300+ mile trips. In my opinion, PHEV is the "best of all worlds" because 95% of my driving is electric but I've still got the reserve just in case.
Personally, I like being able to "wake up" with a "full tank" of electrons every morning. I never realized how much I hated getting gas because I do it so infrequently now.
Jaguar I-Pace is also getting good reviews. But with these newer BEVs from the major manufacturers that still make ICE cars, I would look very closely at the dealer network and make sure they're educated and have the tech support to work out teething pains. GM had issues (now worked out) with having enough "Volt-certified" techs to work on their cars and sometimes parts was an issue early on. Unsure if the other manufacturers jumping in would have the same problems or would be better prepared.
With that said, I would go for it. It will completely transform your driving experience.
for leasing, yes.
battery tech is currently in a transition phase.
so choosing not to own, for another 4 or 5 years, is the smart choice.
solid state batteries coming to Toyota including Lexus branded cars in a few years time.
Good point, although sometimes the other "cabin tech" gets more appealing on new cars than just faster charging/more EV miles (e.g. CarPlay, self-driving, night vision, etc.). Also, some EVs still have the $7,500 tax credit (which you only get directly via purchase, although indirectly you can negotiate it on a lease because the dealer gets the money--which should be passed on to you in savings). This might make a difference in your calculations.
Either way, before you choose lease vs. buy check the rules of your state on battery warranties, some CARB states have 10/yr 150K mile battery warranties and 8 years on all other battery-related tech.
On maintenance, you'll still have the standard shocks, struts, tires, etc. but you'll probably never replace brakes due to regen and pure BEVs have few moving parts, no need for oil changes, etc.
Hybrid vehicles work really well and are a perfected technology. That's where I'm at until EVs go mainstream at more reasonable prices. The EV charging network and range also needs improvement.
Around here, we pay an extra fee ($75/year currently) for hybrid or EV registration. This is because revenues from gasoline taxes are down. They figure drivers of said vehicles "owe" them for making road repairs.
One thing to consider is that right now everyone is charging fairly large premiums for electric vehicles.
However, starting in 2020, VW committed to releasing their "ID" line of fully electric vehicles which are expected to match the price of their ICE counterparts. For example there will be a Tiguan-sized fully electric SUV, priced very close to the normal Tiguan. Other models to follow in the next 2-3 years with "same as ICE" pricing... a hatchback, sedan, and I think a wagon.
I think this will put a lot of market pressure on everyone else who still wants to charge several thousand dollars extra for electric. So...
- If you are literally going to buy today, I'd lease in anticipation of big price drops.
- If you don't have to buy today, maybe you can wait another year or two. At that time you can consider VW's models--or if you don't like VW, see what happens with your preferred brands, who may have to lower prices in order to compete.
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Yea I would maybe try one if there were more than like three places to charge. Problem is both sides will say the same thing. Charger manufacturers won't build because no one buys EV, but would we buy one if the charging network blows?
This is why I still think PHEV with gas range extender gives you best of both. Problem is manufacturers are abandoning them because it’s expensive to carry both gas engine + decent sized battery. BMW tried it with i3 but its range extender was limited. GM had the best compromise with the Volt but abandoned most sedans, with Volt as casualty. Honda Clarity is ok if you like (and can find) the car. Still can find some decent ones with Volvo + coming Ford Escape plug-in. But still limited market.
I don't think enough attention is given to Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. It's electric, an SUV, and has an average price. It can use the gas network for long trips. It has powerful AC outlets so you can use the battery to run things instead of bringing along a generator. It has an app for cooling or heating the cabin before entry.
I don't like the plug in hybrids because the EV range is too limited. The battery is only good for the first 25-50 miles and then the extra depleted battery weight is a disadvantage. If I have to go to the trouble of charging, it's going to be a pure EV with decent range.
Person at work bought this last year and LOVES it. Newer model has bigger battery. Awesome size, doesn't look like a weirdmobile, and still has all luxuries. Their commute is only 20 miles round trip so basically all-electric commuting and gas for any long trips.
I hear ya, always hungry for a few more miles--definite "range anxiety" with a small battery, but also adds to the fun of "how many miles can I get today?" Admittedly a compromise, though, and smaller batteries can only deliver "fun" off-the-line torque but not the same sustained Tesla-level performance.
VW initially looked into PHEV for their entire lineup, but they came to the same conclusion as you. They felt PHEV was an interim generational step which they are just going to skip with a lineup of dedicated EVs and dedicated ICE cars.
But I also admit that it depends on the use case. The target market for PHEV is someone with (1) a daily commute and errands within EV range, but (2) wants to occasionally go camping or road trip or visit family and wants the gas infrastructure, without the hassle of renting a car every month to do so. You get a car that covers both purposes...an all-electric EV for daily use, and a gas car for distance, but you compromise by having to always haul around TWO systems of propulsion and energy storage.
Personally I want an all-electric EV. But I think PHEVs are a necessary step to comfort people with range anxiety, and it does make sense in certain circumstances.
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Everyone not driving an EV are paying for road repairs too but I bet at the 32.9 cents per gallon gas tax rate in your state, they're paying a lot more than 75 bucks per year.
Yeah, if they use more than 4-3/8 gallons a week, it's more than $75 per year.
The Federal credit for alternative fuel/electric cars expired in 2019. It was not renewed. It could eventually get renewed, but it would be risky to expect it will.
Batteries are chemical reactions that eventually deteriorate. I saw some statistics on Telsa (can't quote the source), but was surprised to see the capacity of the "worst car" they tested was in the 80%. It was either 88 or 83% (my recollection is foggy.) I was shocked it was that good.
A good friend has a Civic Hybrid that has exhausted its batteries. Budget issues have prevented replacement, so they are driving in a 1.3l car that's over 500lbs heavier than standard.
That's a lot of words to say I think leasing of a battery powered/hybrid car makes more sense to me (others may disagree, and that's ok) than buying one if you're so inclined.
Would love to hear your experience either way.
Batteries are chemical reactions that eventually deteriorate. I saw some statistics on Telsa (can't quote the source), but was surprised to see the capacity of the "worst car" they tested was in the 80%. It was either 88 or 83% (my recollection is foggy.) I was shocked it was that good.
A good friend has a Civic Hybrid that has exhausted its batteries. Budget issues have prevented replacement, so they are driving in a 1.3l car that's over 500lbs heavier than standard.
That's a lot of words to say I think leasing of a battery powered/hybrid car makes more sense to me (others may disagree, and that's ok) than buying one if you're so inclined.
Would love to hear your experience either way.
I hadn't heard that, as I thought it only expired for certain manufacturers. Energy.gov still claims the tax credit is available, along with fueleconomy.gov, and even lists helpful incentives by state and which manufacturers (e.g. Tesla) no longer have the tax credit and what amounts are available. Let us know where you got that information as that would be very important to know.
Isn’t the point of thread to consider an electric vehicle? I think everyone in this thread realizes the tangible difference(s) between internal combustion versus electric.
Your logic is dated and one-dimensional. And just to make a further point, I’ve owned plenty of muscle cars over the years, most recently a 5.0 Mustang GT and 6.4L Charger Scat-Pack [I even have the new C8 on my radar.] But my point is, there are plenty of vehicles on the market that are smaller-fuel-efficient engines coupled with plenty of power that doesn’t have to be a V-8 to be considered ‘a car’.
Oh, I also think it’s worth mentioning that the V8 has been a dying breed of an engine for years now, your options are extremely limited unless you’re looking at primarily the German sector.
I just bought a 2109 Kia niro PHEV. I love the car and if your a looking for a plug in hybrid that’s not too big I’d seriously consider that car.
But I wish I had taken a longer look at all electric. You do not get the best of all worlds with a PHEV. The ramped up torque is missing from most hybrids, you’ve got two systems to maintain, and have to charge every more frequently even when using around town. Longer trips are where PHEVS excel. It’s a joy to drive to SF to Tahoe and back without thinking about charging or refueling. I get over 85mpg on these longer road trips. But unless you take frequent such long trips, an EV could be the way to go.
But I wish I had taken a longer look at all electric. You do not get the best of all worlds with a PHEV. The ramped up torque is missing from most hybrids, you’ve got two systems to maintain, and have to charge every more frequently even when using around town. Longer trips are where PHEVS excel. It’s a joy to drive to SF to Tahoe and back without thinking about charging or refueling. I get over 85mpg on these longer road trips. But unless you take frequent such long trips, an EV could be the way to go.
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I was seriously considering an EV when I got my Prius Prime (plus-in Prius), what stopped me was that I make several 400 mile one way drives a year, and while quick-charging is good, charging opportunities are still scarce, even in CA. Plus, it would turn a 6.5 hr trip into an at least 8hr trip ...
I have had Toyota hybrids for 10+ yrs, they're extremely reliable, my Prime is quoted by Toyota as 25 miles EV range, I have gotten as many as 40+, in SoCal of course. Over now 45k miles I site at 82mpg average. I know there are hesitations but I love my plug-in, plus, I get to drive HOV lanes
I have had Toyota hybrids for 10+ yrs, they're extremely reliable, my Prime is quoted by Toyota as 25 miles EV range, I have gotten as many as 40+, in SoCal of course. Over now 45k miles I site at 82mpg average. I know there are hesitations but I love my plug-in, plus, I get to drive HOV lanes
No, that is not how it works. Federal credits are for the first 200,000 EVs that a mfr makes.
Everyone keeps saying the credits expired in 2019, which is not true. Credits expired for Tesla in 2019 because they ran out. Tesla only, not all EVs.
GM's credits are phasing out and expected to fully expire by March 2020. As far as I know, all the other mfr's still have plenty of credits left.
If you are interested in a particular PHEV or EV, you can see what Federal credits are remaining here:
Tax Incentives
Find out how you can save money through Federal tax incentives on your purchase of a new plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle!
www.fueleconomy.gov
If you want a Tesla, too late for credit. If you want a GM, you better hurry. Anything else is fine.
No, that is not how it works. Federal credits are for the first 200,000 EVs that a mfr makes.
Everyone keeps saying the credits expired in 2019, which is not true. Credits expired for Tesla in 2019 because they ran out. Tesla only, not all EVs.
GM's credits are phasing out and expected to fully expire by March 2020. As far as I know, all the other mfr's still have plenty of credits left.
If you are interested in a particular PHEV or EV, you can see what Federal credits are remaining here:
Tax Incentives
Find out how you can save money through Federal tax incentives on your purchase of a new plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle!
If you want a Tesla, too late for credit. If you want a GM, you better hurry. Anything else is fine.
I agree with the 200k level in prior to 2019 years. The 2020 Budget (soon to be presented to congress does away with this.)