I keep second guessing myself. When I use my (Windows) laptop I realize how completely comfortable I am with Windows. I can't help but wonder why I'm even considering buying a Mac computer. Yet... the curiosity is getting the best of me. Tough choice -- for me, anyway.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Considering the "Dark Side"...Please Help Me Decide...
- Thread starter JoelBC
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Short but sweet.
I'll say, I've owned Macs and PC's for years, quite a long time, ( First PC I bought was a used 486 for 700 bux in middle school, and an iMacG3 I picked up cheap in high school. )
Mac's aren't any more productive or easier to use than a Windows machine from my perspective, they both do pretty much the same thing. Its just different, thats all.
OSX and Windows can accomplish the same goals, it's really just which one you perfer to use.
From what it sounds like, all your software and hardware works pretty well on Windows, and everything you need to be supported it also supported on Windows, and it also appears Windows is something your well versed in and don't mind using.
Now, that's not to say you shouldn't switch. But it does appear you'll have to make some compromises if you do switch, it's going to cost a pretty big chunk of money.
And before you do switch, you do need to Realize that Apple does not support its hardware for very long, nor its software. Which is fine if you freqently upgrade, but an issue if you don't.
If you really want to get a feel for Mac, buy an old iMac or Macbook and give it a shot.
If you REALLY want to save money, I suppose you could get an old PPC Mac Running 10.5, it'll still give you a good idea of what OSX Is like, and you can just resell it.
I'll say, I've owned Macs and PC's for years, quite a long time, ( First PC I bought was a used 486 for 700 bux in middle school, and an iMacG3 I picked up cheap in high school. )
Mac's aren't any more productive or easier to use than a Windows machine from my perspective, they both do pretty much the same thing. Its just different, thats all.
OSX and Windows can accomplish the same goals, it's really just which one you perfer to use.
From what it sounds like, all your software and hardware works pretty well on Windows, and everything you need to be supported it also supported on Windows, and it also appears Windows is something your well versed in and don't mind using.
Now, that's not to say you shouldn't switch. But it does appear you'll have to make some compromises if you do switch, it's going to cost a pretty big chunk of money.
And before you do switch, you do need to Realize that Apple does not support its hardware for very long, nor its software. Which is fine if you freqently upgrade, but an issue if you don't.
If you really want to get a feel for Mac, buy an old iMac or Macbook and give it a shot.
If you REALLY want to save money, I suppose you could get an old PPC Mac Running 10.5, it'll still give you a good idea of what OSX Is like, and you can just resell it.
Hi Joel
A lot of positive information in response to your query. As many others will of said it does come down to personal choice. I have just bought an iMac several months ago having used windows at home and work. Now I am retired i quite fancied the challenge.
I have bought the most junior model and wow what a machine. I have learnt how to put VirtualBox on it and Windows 7 runs very smoothly. Like you I had some programmes I wanted to keep using.
I did upgrade the memory to 12G to allow me to give half of it over to the virtual environment.
I did try Bootcamp at first but within a few weeks I was 90% Mac spent very little time in windows.
I also bought a 2TB backup drive and I am letting time machine and the WD drive enjoy their relationship.
Would I go back to PC.. No I am enjoying the Mac to much and the track pad is a must. There is a nice little free programme that allows you to resize the window for a side to side comparison. ( just like Windows 7)
So no techy info for you, simply a report on my experiences with the change over.
Good luck making yp your mind
----------
Hi Joel
A lot of positive information in response to your query. As many others will of said it does come down to personal choice. I have just bought an iMac several months ago having used windows at home and work. Now I am retired i quite fancied the challenge.
I have bought the most junior model and wow what a machine. I have learnt how to put VirtualBox on it and Windows 7 runs very smoothly. Like you I had some programmes I wanted to keep using.
I did upgrade the memory to 12G to allow me to give half of it over to the virtual environment.
I did try Bootcamp at first but within a few weeks I was 90% Mac spent very little time in windows.
I also bought a 2TB backup drive and I am letting time machine and the WD drive enjoy their relationship.
Would I go back to PC.. No I am enjoying the Mac to much and the track pad is a must. There is a nice little free programme that allows you to resize the window for a side to side comparison. ( just like Windows 7)
So no techy info for you, simply a report on my experiences with the change over.
Good luck making your your mind
A lot of positive information in response to your query. As many others will of said it does come down to personal choice. I have just bought an iMac several months ago having used windows at home and work. Now I am retired i quite fancied the challenge.
I have bought the most junior model and wow what a machine. I have learnt how to put VirtualBox on it and Windows 7 runs very smoothly. Like you I had some programmes I wanted to keep using.
I did upgrade the memory to 12G to allow me to give half of it over to the virtual environment.
I did try Bootcamp at first but within a few weeks I was 90% Mac spent very little time in windows.
I also bought a 2TB backup drive and I am letting time machine and the WD drive enjoy their relationship.
Would I go back to PC.. No I am enjoying the Mac to much and the track pad is a must. There is a nice little free programme that allows you to resize the window for a side to side comparison. ( just like Windows 7)
So no techy info for you, simply a report on my experiences with the change over.
Good luck making yp your mind
----------
Hi Joel
A lot of positive information in response to your query. As many others will of said it does come down to personal choice. I have just bought an iMac several months ago having used windows at home and work. Now I am retired i quite fancied the challenge.
I have bought the most junior model and wow what a machine. I have learnt how to put VirtualBox on it and Windows 7 runs very smoothly. Like you I had some programmes I wanted to keep using.
I did upgrade the memory to 12G to allow me to give half of it over to the virtual environment.
I did try Bootcamp at first but within a few weeks I was 90% Mac spent very little time in windows.
I also bought a 2TB backup drive and I am letting time machine and the WD drive enjoy their relationship.
Would I go back to PC.. No I am enjoying the Mac to much and the track pad is a must. There is a nice little free programme that allows you to resize the window for a side to side comparison. ( just like Windows 7)
So no techy info for you, simply a report on my experiences with the change over.
Good luck making your your mind
It's not the Dark Side
"When You Are in the Middle"
Considering the "Dark Side"... Please Help Me Decide...
Hey Joel, this is a great subject I went back and forth on the VM or Bootcamp for Windows 7 on OSX/Mac Hardware.
I also purchased my first PC (Macintosh II) in 1987 Used several different mainframe systems at work for the Mfg. of Airborne Radar Systems (Very High-Tech Computer Systems for Mil/Com Aircraft Weapons Guidance, Mission Control, All-Weather Forward/Side/Back Looking Radar, IR Systems ) and several different Mac/Win PC's. I have personally owned twenty-plus systems, of Desktops, WorkStations, Laptops, Tablets running MS DOS, Windows 95, 2000, XP Pro, XP MCE, Vista/7 Pro, 7 Ultimate x64 Mac OS II, OS 9, OSX 10.6, 10.7 depending on what use or end product I or We needed to create or achieve.
Realizing you said you do not want to use a Dual Boot System but one thing to think about is if done this way you can still use Windows as you do now same Speed/Customization, and also get all the benefits of OSX Speed/Customization, and ALL of the System Resources, on the best hardware made (Both All-In-One Machine)! I too run some App's that use WINDOWS ONLY! Some are very high dollars, four digits just to purchase, on top of the ($150Mo) Server Addressed or Update Based Every Time, just to open and use the software you have already purchased. I personally run OSX Lion / Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit on bootcamp 512GB SSD split 50/50 OS's/App's only on each Boot Drive Partition on the Windows side it gives better performance/speed numbers (7.4/7.5 out of 7.9) than my last two desktops did running RAID 0 on HDD's. The 2011/2012 MBP's use better CPU, Graphics, Storage, RAM, and Upgrade Options than MBA's! The New Quad-Core i7 CPU's are the real work horses. The GPU's are much better than the intel 3000/4000 versions. Todays 3Gbs/6Gbs SSD's are so fast (they are Not affected by sudden impact like HDD's) and prices are getting much better, using a SSD for your Boot Drive and a Master/Storage Drive (SSD or HDD) in the optical bay of a MBP (Not the MBPr) and an external optical drive is a great way to setup a very nimble and efficient system. As well as using 16GB RAM also greatly improves performance all of this setup is not cheap but you will have a great running machine that will not be out dated for quite awhile (the only Bad is you won't have USB3, (TB adaptor to USB3 soon maybe?) or No Ret Display, The Good is a myriad of Upgrades Available for the 2011/2012 MBP's).
Using BootCamp it generates drivers for the TrackPad, Keyboard, etc your Printer/Scanner Mfgr WS should have drivers for OSX (Canon, HP, Epson ? / I have downloaded them for several different Printers/Scanners).
The terminology of OSX (Activity Monitor/Preferences) vs Windows (Task Manager/Control Panel) is just semantic differences. In Lion you need to Add "Save As" to the "Application Shortcuts" in the Keyboard Preferences, and Use "Symbolic Links" to "Save In/To" (or Save In/To C: / D: / E: in Windows). Get used to the "Red, Yellow, Green Radial Buttons" for the min/max of window sizes, and using "Quit App" instead of clicking the Red Radial Button to close App's. But the OSX keyboard has Special Character Viewer built-in just hold down the key and choose the Special Character you need. The TrackPad is much better than any other one I have ever used but you have to get used to it and there are a lot of Special Gestures for the TrackPad and Magic Mouse, Logitech Mice, Wacom Graphics Tablets which can be set in preferences, and they all run great!
There are a lot of great third party app's that are Free or only a Few Dollars to purchase if needed. Alfred (Free) + the PowerPack (Paid)(get it from the Dev/WS as the MAS does not include the PowerPack) is a great addition/option to/for Spotlight, and Much More you can search this PC, launch app's, google search, create extensions or apple scripts, create symbolic link, toggle hidden files, flush the DNS, open different browsers for each use/kind of need, and a myriad more options (I have more than 100 Scripts/Apple Scripts/Filters for Alfred PowerPack). BetterTouchTool/MagicPrefs are great third party app's as well, for tract pad improvements. I use Apple Magic Mouse (OSX) and Logitech VX/MX mice (Windows 7). Growl and HardwareGrowler are also very useful for notifications and such check them out. HyperDock gives you the Image of the open windows over the icon in the dock like Windows 7 does. Spectacle, iSnap,and Moom give you the snap to feature. CheatSheet (hold down command 3 seconds) will show all the KB shortcuts for that App. Inbox Classic is similar to OutLook. Fantastical works with iCal. Growly Notes is similar to OneNote. 1Password or DataVault are great for Browser Site PW's/Credit Card info and such. Evernote, Wunderlist, Notes Tab Pro, Quick Note Pro, To-Do Lists, are self explained. Some App's are better to get from the MAS and others are better to get from the Dev WS, the advantage of the MAS is you can always re-download it or install on all your Mac's if you purchased it there. TwoDollarTuesday is a great site for fantastic deals on App's and they have different specials each week. If you like I can name more later or provide links if you can't find them, and I am always looking for better App's myself, and I am Not affiliated with or sell any one of these items!
AppCleaner/AppDelete are uninstallers that work great and are only a few to ten dollars, and very simple to use (I have had some app's that don't completely uninstall if not done in the proper order on Windows as well as OSX and can never be completely removed if not done in that order! (Printer Software Extras/Browsers ) These get everything done!).
OSX Lion has a lot of things I would like to see in Windows Like up to 16 Desktops in Mission Control for a lot of space to work on a laptop (Control 1-0 (DT 1>10), or Control+Option 1-6 (DT 11>16) to jump from one desktop to another quickly Set different Desktop (Wallpaper) to Each DT to know which DT your On), or assign an App to a certain DT instead of Min/Maxing a window in Windows 7. Also the clutter free desktop other than SSD/HDD/Flash/Optical Drive's mounted on the system. Widgets/Dashboard can be a Separate Space or Overlay on top of other windows as a floating display instead of Show/Hide Sidebar (Win, Vista or 7) HotCorners can be assigned for whatever you like. One, Two, Three, Four Finger Swipes/Gestures for the TrackPad/Magic Mouse do different things for each Application or OSX Lion.
** Quick Note (I do not use shortcuts on my DT as it can use a lot of RAM that can be saved for system usage not a shortcut that I can launch with a quick KB command in Alfred (OSX) or Start (Win7), it can load and be running on a SSD faster than a mouse to shortcut move not to mention it looks like ($#*&) to have a bunch cluttered stuff on the DT). **
Simple things like iTunes runs much better on OSX than it does on Windows. My iTunes (Music only) is 768GB+ Apps, Movies, TV Shows, Podcasts, iTunes U, are at least that or much more! Windows it is sluggish at best with that size iTunes library :-/ I run a very tidy computer everything in folders with alpha/numeric names and in its own place!
It was mentioned in another post above, that spoke about a partition formatted in FAT32 to move files between OSX & Windows 7 I do the same thing just a little different, using a MBP 17" it has an ExpressCard 34 Slot which I have several ExpressCard - 48GB, 64GB, 128GB (Wintec) SSD's formatted in FAT32 to transfer (At up-to 3Gbs SATA II Speeds) anything moving things between OSX and Windows on the ExpressCard SSD's. You can also get an external Echo ExpressCard Reader/Writer (Sonnet) to run on TB port to do the same thing, plus eSATA, SD/MMC/MS Cards to run on an ExpressCard 34 Slot. My setup is very Customized for my needs/uses and I do this to save more space for OS/App's on my Boot Drives (FYI - "Do Not DeFrag a SSD" let the garbage collection do that for you) and Utilize the Master/Storage Drive for everything else and External Storage Drives as well as ExpressCard SSD's.
I use OSX when I need too and Windows 7U x64 when I need too Depends mostly on the purpose because no one OS does it ALL, or has all of the options for every need! I personally did not feel that Win7U x64 ran as well in VM mode as it does in a Dual Boot Option. Go for the Mac Hardware and try a Dual Boot System if you feel that a VM/Parallels mode would be a better fit for you after a while it is a lot easier to convert to it, than the other way around. Use the x64bit it runs faster, it utilizes larger disk volumes 2~4TB and 96GB OSX/128GB Windows RAM sizes, 32bit is limited to using 3GB of RAM even if 4GB RAM is installed and total volumes sizes have limitations due file sys formatting as well.
I can Boot or Restart or Shut-Down in 15 Seconds and/or ReBoot from OSX to Windows 7 or back in considerably less than one minute on a SSD, most times less than 30 Seconds! Launch any App in 1 Second, I can have 20 windows open in Safari with 15~25 Tabs open in each window running ~ 6-8GB Ram just for Safari, plus iTunes with Amarra running, AOL, iCal, Quick Note Pro, MAS, Activity Monitor, System Preferences, System Info and still have ~ 5-6 GB RAM left over to run Aperture, LogicStudio, Adobe CS5.5 MasterCollection I do not have as many restarts or crashes on Windows as my Best Sony VAIO/HP/Dell's Desktop/Laptops still do. Mostly all of the do's & dont's are not that hard to learn! The learning curve is quick and easy, plus there are a lot of ScreenCastOnline Tudor Video's and many more like it from other tech sites to pickup many shortcuts, keyboard commands, terminal commands if feel daring, and great customization techniques to make you an "Awesome Highly Skilled Trained Professional" on both OSX / Windows 7!
Running Dual/Multiple OS's is an asset or attribute for You that's something a lot of other users do not want to learn or even use. Like learning a second language is a Major Attribute, or a second Major Skill Set for tough times, "No Job Lasts Forever". Plus it is fun to learn New Ways or More Options to get the same end result "A Job Well Done"!
Some of the App's I run
Mac OS X Lion:
Adobe CS5.5 Creative Suite, FinalCut X, Aperture 3, Roxio Toast 11 Titanium for BD, LogicStudio, Ableton 8, SonicStudios SoundBlade HD, Amarra 2.4/iTunes 10, Final Draft 8, Scrivener, Keynote, Numbers, Pages, Inbox Classic, and all the app's listed above (P2) and many more. Browsers: AOL Desktop, FireFox, Google Chrome, Opera, Safari.
Windows 7 Ultimate64:
MS Office 2007 (Enterprise Version Access, Accounting 2009, Excel, Groove, InfoPath, OneNote, OutLook, PowerPoint, Project, Publisher, Visio, Word), AutoCAD, Rivit, 3ds Max, Chief Architect, Xactimate, ProTools, CyberLink PowerSuite for BDXL, and many more. Browsers: AOL 9.5, FireFox, Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, Opera, Safari.
** It's not the Dark Side "When You Are in the Middle" it is always better lighting in the Middle of Two Bright Lights! **
** "Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee **
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U64)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win7U64) + Four 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
** It would be really nice to see a MBP 17 with a retina display with 2560x1600+ (or 3840X2400) LED, HD-R GPU 4GB GDDR5, (2) Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM Ivy bridge or better Quad/Six Core CPU's, 16/32/48GB 1600/2000 MHz DDR3 RAM, (2) 500-1TB 6Gbs SSDs (for RAID 0 or OS-App's/Separate Storage), TB/USB 3.0/FW/eSATA/ExpressCard 34/54 to run whatever, external BDXL/DVD/CD Drive optical disc usage (Pioneer BDR-XD04 ext. slim/Pioneer BDR-206MBK desktop 5.25 in an ext. enclosure), up to 100-125GB on one BRXL-SL/DL/TL/QL Optical Disc for BD-3D or an extra archive for the back-up to multiple TB's of Storage HDDs. **
Considering the "Dark Side"... Please Help Me Decide...
Hey Joel, this is a great subject I went back and forth on the VM or Bootcamp for Windows 7 on OSX/Mac Hardware.
I also purchased my first PC (Macintosh II) in 1987 Used several different mainframe systems at work for the Mfg. of Airborne Radar Systems (Very High-Tech Computer Systems for Mil/Com Aircraft Weapons Guidance, Mission Control, All-Weather Forward/Side/Back Looking Radar, IR Systems ) and several different Mac/Win PC's. I have personally owned twenty-plus systems, of Desktops, WorkStations, Laptops, Tablets running MS DOS, Windows 95, 2000, XP Pro, XP MCE, Vista/7 Pro, 7 Ultimate x64 Mac OS II, OS 9, OSX 10.6, 10.7 depending on what use or end product I or We needed to create or achieve.
Realizing you said you do not want to use a Dual Boot System but one thing to think about is if done this way you can still use Windows as you do now same Speed/Customization, and also get all the benefits of OSX Speed/Customization, and ALL of the System Resources, on the best hardware made (Both All-In-One Machine)! I too run some App's that use WINDOWS ONLY! Some are very high dollars, four digits just to purchase, on top of the ($150Mo) Server Addressed or Update Based Every Time, just to open and use the software you have already purchased. I personally run OSX Lion / Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit on bootcamp 512GB SSD split 50/50 OS's/App's only on each Boot Drive Partition on the Windows side it gives better performance/speed numbers (7.4/7.5 out of 7.9) than my last two desktops did running RAID 0 on HDD's. The 2011/2012 MBP's use better CPU, Graphics, Storage, RAM, and Upgrade Options than MBA's! The New Quad-Core i7 CPU's are the real work horses. The GPU's are much better than the intel 3000/4000 versions. Todays 3Gbs/6Gbs SSD's are so fast (they are Not affected by sudden impact like HDD's) and prices are getting much better, using a SSD for your Boot Drive and a Master/Storage Drive (SSD or HDD) in the optical bay of a MBP (Not the MBPr) and an external optical drive is a great way to setup a very nimble and efficient system. As well as using 16GB RAM also greatly improves performance all of this setup is not cheap but you will have a great running machine that will not be out dated for quite awhile (the only Bad is you won't have USB3, (TB adaptor to USB3 soon maybe?) or No Ret Display, The Good is a myriad of Upgrades Available for the 2011/2012 MBP's).
Using BootCamp it generates drivers for the TrackPad, Keyboard, etc your Printer/Scanner Mfgr WS should have drivers for OSX (Canon, HP, Epson ? / I have downloaded them for several different Printers/Scanners).
The terminology of OSX (Activity Monitor/Preferences) vs Windows (Task Manager/Control Panel) is just semantic differences. In Lion you need to Add "Save As" to the "Application Shortcuts" in the Keyboard Preferences, and Use "Symbolic Links" to "Save In/To" (or Save In/To C: / D: / E: in Windows). Get used to the "Red, Yellow, Green Radial Buttons" for the min/max of window sizes, and using "Quit App" instead of clicking the Red Radial Button to close App's. But the OSX keyboard has Special Character Viewer built-in just hold down the key and choose the Special Character you need. The TrackPad is much better than any other one I have ever used but you have to get used to it and there are a lot of Special Gestures for the TrackPad and Magic Mouse, Logitech Mice, Wacom Graphics Tablets which can be set in preferences, and they all run great!
There are a lot of great third party app's that are Free or only a Few Dollars to purchase if needed. Alfred (Free) + the PowerPack (Paid)(get it from the Dev/WS as the MAS does not include the PowerPack) is a great addition/option to/for Spotlight, and Much More you can search this PC, launch app's, google search, create extensions or apple scripts, create symbolic link, toggle hidden files, flush the DNS, open different browsers for each use/kind of need, and a myriad more options (I have more than 100 Scripts/Apple Scripts/Filters for Alfred PowerPack). BetterTouchTool/MagicPrefs are great third party app's as well, for tract pad improvements. I use Apple Magic Mouse (OSX) and Logitech VX/MX mice (Windows 7). Growl and HardwareGrowler are also very useful for notifications and such check them out. HyperDock gives you the Image of the open windows over the icon in the dock like Windows 7 does. Spectacle, iSnap,and Moom give you the snap to feature. CheatSheet (hold down command 3 seconds) will show all the KB shortcuts for that App. Inbox Classic is similar to OutLook. Fantastical works with iCal. Growly Notes is similar to OneNote. 1Password or DataVault are great for Browser Site PW's/Credit Card info and such. Evernote, Wunderlist, Notes Tab Pro, Quick Note Pro, To-Do Lists, are self explained. Some App's are better to get from the MAS and others are better to get from the Dev WS, the advantage of the MAS is you can always re-download it or install on all your Mac's if you purchased it there. TwoDollarTuesday is a great site for fantastic deals on App's and they have different specials each week. If you like I can name more later or provide links if you can't find them, and I am always looking for better App's myself, and I am Not affiliated with or sell any one of these items!
AppCleaner/AppDelete are uninstallers that work great and are only a few to ten dollars, and very simple to use (I have had some app's that don't completely uninstall if not done in the proper order on Windows as well as OSX and can never be completely removed if not done in that order! (Printer Software Extras/Browsers ) These get everything done!).
OSX Lion has a lot of things I would like to see in Windows Like up to 16 Desktops in Mission Control for a lot of space to work on a laptop (Control 1-0 (DT 1>10), or Control+Option 1-6 (DT 11>16) to jump from one desktop to another quickly Set different Desktop (Wallpaper) to Each DT to know which DT your On), or assign an App to a certain DT instead of Min/Maxing a window in Windows 7. Also the clutter free desktop other than SSD/HDD/Flash/Optical Drive's mounted on the system. Widgets/Dashboard can be a Separate Space or Overlay on top of other windows as a floating display instead of Show/Hide Sidebar (Win, Vista or 7) HotCorners can be assigned for whatever you like. One, Two, Three, Four Finger Swipes/Gestures for the TrackPad/Magic Mouse do different things for each Application or OSX Lion.
** Quick Note (I do not use shortcuts on my DT as it can use a lot of RAM that can be saved for system usage not a shortcut that I can launch with a quick KB command in Alfred (OSX) or Start (Win7), it can load and be running on a SSD faster than a mouse to shortcut move not to mention it looks like ($#*&) to have a bunch cluttered stuff on the DT). **
Simple things like iTunes runs much better on OSX than it does on Windows. My iTunes (Music only) is 768GB+ Apps, Movies, TV Shows, Podcasts, iTunes U, are at least that or much more! Windows it is sluggish at best with that size iTunes library :-/ I run a very tidy computer everything in folders with alpha/numeric names and in its own place!
It was mentioned in another post above, that spoke about a partition formatted in FAT32 to move files between OSX & Windows 7 I do the same thing just a little different, using a MBP 17" it has an ExpressCard 34 Slot which I have several ExpressCard - 48GB, 64GB, 128GB (Wintec) SSD's formatted in FAT32 to transfer (At up-to 3Gbs SATA II Speeds) anything moving things between OSX and Windows on the ExpressCard SSD's. You can also get an external Echo ExpressCard Reader/Writer (Sonnet) to run on TB port to do the same thing, plus eSATA, SD/MMC/MS Cards to run on an ExpressCard 34 Slot. My setup is very Customized for my needs/uses and I do this to save more space for OS/App's on my Boot Drives (FYI - "Do Not DeFrag a SSD" let the garbage collection do that for you) and Utilize the Master/Storage Drive for everything else and External Storage Drives as well as ExpressCard SSD's.
I use OSX when I need too and Windows 7U x64 when I need too Depends mostly on the purpose because no one OS does it ALL, or has all of the options for every need! I personally did not feel that Win7U x64 ran as well in VM mode as it does in a Dual Boot Option. Go for the Mac Hardware and try a Dual Boot System if you feel that a VM/Parallels mode would be a better fit for you after a while it is a lot easier to convert to it, than the other way around. Use the x64bit it runs faster, it utilizes larger disk volumes 2~4TB and 96GB OSX/128GB Windows RAM sizes, 32bit is limited to using 3GB of RAM even if 4GB RAM is installed and total volumes sizes have limitations due file sys formatting as well.
I can Boot or Restart or Shut-Down in 15 Seconds and/or ReBoot from OSX to Windows 7 or back in considerably less than one minute on a SSD, most times less than 30 Seconds! Launch any App in 1 Second, I can have 20 windows open in Safari with 15~25 Tabs open in each window running ~ 6-8GB Ram just for Safari, plus iTunes with Amarra running, AOL, iCal, Quick Note Pro, MAS, Activity Monitor, System Preferences, System Info and still have ~ 5-6 GB RAM left over to run Aperture, LogicStudio, Adobe CS5.5 MasterCollection I do not have as many restarts or crashes on Windows as my Best Sony VAIO/HP/Dell's Desktop/Laptops still do. Mostly all of the do's & dont's are not that hard to learn! The learning curve is quick and easy, plus there are a lot of ScreenCastOnline Tudor Video's and many more like it from other tech sites to pickup many shortcuts, keyboard commands, terminal commands if feel daring, and great customization techniques to make you an "Awesome Highly Skilled Trained Professional" on both OSX / Windows 7!
Running Dual/Multiple OS's is an asset or attribute for You that's something a lot of other users do not want to learn or even use. Like learning a second language is a Major Attribute, or a second Major Skill Set for tough times, "No Job Lasts Forever". Plus it is fun to learn New Ways or More Options to get the same end result "A Job Well Done"!
Some of the App's I run
Mac OS X Lion:
Adobe CS5.5 Creative Suite, FinalCut X, Aperture 3, Roxio Toast 11 Titanium for BD, LogicStudio, Ableton 8, SonicStudios SoundBlade HD, Amarra 2.4/iTunes 10, Final Draft 8, Scrivener, Keynote, Numbers, Pages, Inbox Classic, and all the app's listed above (P2) and many more. Browsers: AOL Desktop, FireFox, Google Chrome, Opera, Safari.
Windows 7 Ultimate64:
MS Office 2007 (Enterprise Version Access, Accounting 2009, Excel, Groove, InfoPath, OneNote, OutLook, PowerPoint, Project, Publisher, Visio, Word), AutoCAD, Rivit, 3ds Max, Chief Architect, Xactimate, ProTools, CyberLink PowerSuite for BDXL, and many more. Browsers: AOL 9.5, FireFox, Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, Opera, Safari.
** It's not the Dark Side "When You Are in the Middle" it is always better lighting in the Middle of Two Bright Lights! **
** "Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee ** Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U64)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win7U64) + Four 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
** It would be really nice to see a MBP 17 with a retina display with 2560x1600+ (or 3840X2400) LED, HD-R GPU 4GB GDDR5, (2) Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM Ivy bridge or better Quad/Six Core CPU's, 16/32/48GB 1600/2000 MHz DDR3 RAM, (2) 500-1TB 6Gbs SSDs (for RAID 0 or OS-App's/Separate Storage), TB/USB 3.0/FW/eSATA/ExpressCard 34/54 to run whatever, external BDXL/DVD/CD Drive optical disc usage (Pioneer BDR-XD04 ext. slim/Pioneer BDR-206MBK desktop 5.25 in an ext. enclosure), up to 100-125GB on one BRXL-SL/DL/TL/QL Optical Disc for BD-3D or an extra archive for the back-up to multiple TB's of Storage HDDs. **
Agreed...
Agreed... the consideration for change is based on curiosity to see "what it is all about"...
I am a bit of a power user though that may change...I now use one laptop for both work and home and it is on 18+ hours a day...yes, I do have long work hours...
Exactly what I am trying to do, just have not found the perfect unit yet...
----------
Thanks for the response...
We are in the same boat only that I am not retired, though I wish I were...
I would like to try the same...only difference, I need/ want a powerful laptop..
Thank-you for the user perspective response...I do hope to give it a go in the near future, the main impediment being time and (possibly) waiting for a 13" MBP with retina dispaly...the 15" is too big for my liking while the MBA does not have enough RAM for VM purposes...
DF9, appreciate the detailed response and note the following:
Thanks...
Agree that dual booting is the best in terms of raw performance but I am looking for a blend of convenience and performance...
It seems that you are a devotee of BootCamp and dual booting...how long does this take...is it possible to install Parallels over Bootcamp so that in the event one wants to revert to BootCamp usage one can?
None of the above should be a problem as I am somewhat technical minded
and have no problem pouring through manuals...heck, I picked up an iPad for the first time this weekend and configured to the nth degree though, I must admit, iTunes is not a reliable application and is subject to freezing on a Windows machine, not fun...
The one thing I will note is that after years of using a trackpad I went back to a mouse as it is much more "wrist friendly"...I would get an Apple mouse though I will loose some of the gesture functionality...
Extremely helpful and appreciated...the one obvious point is that one needs assistance to be pointed in the right direction to get was is easily found in Windows...with that, I will take you up on your offer...
Again, appreciated and useful...
Hmmm, sound familiar...are you sure you are not me!
Good advice, I will go with the 64-bit version...to be clear as you suggesting that I try the dual boot or the vm version first...
I read manuals and books, not a problem...
That is the point...the challenge and the fun..
Again, thanks for the informative and helpful post...
Thanks...
Agree that dual booting is the best in terms of raw performance but I am looking for a blend of convenience and performance...
It seems that you are a devotee of BootCamp and dual booting...how long does this take...is it possible to install Parallels over Bootcamp so that in the event one wants to revert to BootCamp usage one can?
None of the above should be a problem as I am somewhat technical minded
and have no problem pouring through manuals...heck, I picked up an iPad for the first time this weekend and configured to the nth degree though, I must admit, iTunes is not a reliable application and is subject to freezing on a Windows machine, not fun...
The one thing I will note is that after years of using a trackpad I went back to a mouse as it is much more "wrist friendly"...I would get an Apple mouse though I will loose some of the gesture functionality...
Extremely helpful and appreciated...the one obvious point is that one needs assistance to be pointed in the right direction to get was is easily found in Windows...with that, I will take you up on your offer...
Again, appreciated and useful...
Hmmm, sound familiar...are you sure you are not me!
Good advice, I will go with the 64-bit version...to be clear as you suggesting that I try the dual boot or the vm version first...
I read manuals and books, not a problem...
That is the point...the challenge and the fun..
Again, thanks for the informative and helpful post...
Last edited:
Yes, so its something to think about, weather to stay with Windows or go Mac, keep in mind Microsoft will be offering a Windows 8 upgrade for 40 dollars for anyone with XP/Vista/7.
Indeed, though I've owned Macs and PC's since I was 16 lol ( 27 now ), Macs are just well " different ". Nice machines though. It feels different, kinda makes you happy for whatever reason.
Well " power user " can mean a couple different things, I make simulations in some pretty intensive software as my career. I regularly go up to 120gb of Ram on my workstation ( only has 128 gb, its getting upgraded soon ). If you need performance. A Mac may not be the best choice.
Of course, if your going to pick up an old 6+ year old PowerPC Mac, please do Stay away from the iMac G5.
I hear you on the simulations as my company is very heavily into stochastic modeling and the like...I never said that my usage did not involve such applications or work...
No, I am looking for a 1 or 2 year old MBP or MBA which will support Mountain Lion when released...any leads on one, particularly with lots of RAM...
Joel
Two follow ups to keep this thread going...
1. Is it possible to install Parallels over Bootcamp so that in the event one wants to revert to BootCamp usage one can?
2. I might have found a laptop to play / test on...I have a line on the following machine...a MBP with an i7 chip, 16GB of RAM, a 500GB 7200 rpm hard drive (no SSD
), 2 years of Apple care remaining, a key pad protector, a protective case and a carrying case.
I am curious as to what you -- the Mac experts -- think is a reasonable price for this machine as well as what you think the maximum resolution is.
Thanks in advance,
Joel
1. Is it possible to install Parallels over Bootcamp so that in the event one wants to revert to BootCamp usage one can?
2. I might have found a laptop to play / test on...I have a line on the following machine...a MBP with an i7 chip, 16GB of RAM, a 500GB 7200 rpm hard drive (no SSD
), 2 years of Apple care remaining, a key pad protector, a protective case and a carrying case.I am curious as to what you -- the Mac experts -- think is a reasonable price for this machine as well as what you think the maximum resolution is.
Thanks in advance,
Joel
1) http://download.parallels.com/desktop/v6/docs/en/Parallels_Desktop_Users_Guide/23112.htm
2) I would be incredibly suspicious of a 17" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM, if it is not a 2011 model or later.
Apple only started manufacturing MacBook Pros that support (unofficially) 16GB of RAM in 2011; Before that, 8GB was the maximum recognized.
If this particular MacBook Pro is real, is it likely a 2011 model, which means I would say it is worth about $2000, maybe more. With all of those accessories and the upgraded i7 processor, not to mention the sheer amount of RAM memory included, the value would be near that of a newer model.
2) I would be incredibly suspicious of a 17" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM, if it is not a 2011 model or later.
Apple only started manufacturing MacBook Pros that support (unofficially) 16GB of RAM in 2011; Before that, 8GB was the maximum recognized.
If this particular MacBook Pro is real, is it likely a 2011 model, which means I would say it is worth about $2000, maybe more. With all of those accessories and the upgraded i7 processor, not to mention the sheer amount of RAM memory included, the value would be near that of a newer model.
Thanks, appreciate the link...
I must have missed something...why 17"?
Hmmm, for that price I might as well buy a new one...
Oops. I was thinking at first that it was only the 2012 series that supported 16GB of RAM, and the 2012 series doesn't include a 17" model. But then I confirmed that the 16GB upgrade became possible with 2011 models but forgot to remove the "17" portion of my post.
Just keep in mind that a new Mac around that price point will likely only have 8GB of RAM memory and no accessories.
It's not the Dark Side
"When You Are in the Middle"
Hey Joel,
Are you looking to do the upgrades your self? If so the MBP 13" use Dual-Core i5 / i7's, Not the Quad-Core versions, as well as the graphics are the Intel 3000/4000, Not the AMD-ATI (2011) / NIVIDA (2012) version like the MBP 15 / 17's do! This is a note to self… the Intel 3K/4K use shared RAM with the System RAM or less RAM for rendering High-Usage GPU App's. The 15"/17" at first seemed huge to me also… as I was using a Sony VAIO 13' Z CTO maxed-out config.
The upgradeability of the 15/17's seemed like a better fit as an all around work-horse. The MBP 15" has the Quad-Core CPU, ATI/NVIDIA GPU 1GB GDDR5, 1440x900, with the option of HD Display 1680x1050, the MBP 17" has 1920x1200 HD Display. The RAM can go up to 16GB of 1333 MHz DDR3/1600 MHz DDR3L, you can install 2 (SSD/HDD) drives up to 1TB, one in each bay, for each of the two machines, and use the optical drive in an external enclosure. Which allows for multiple options in system configurability… One OS on each drive, or Dual Boot/VM-Parallels on one drive or partitioned for two OS's, and the second for storage, or RAID 0 for Striping of the two drives for faster performance, or RAID 1 for Mirroring of the one of two drives/redundancy or failure protection, or RAID 10 for Striping and Mirroring across both drives. Not sure if the VM/Parallels SW runs well on RAID configured Systems would have to search to learn more!
SSD's vs HDD's the new 3Gbs / 6Gbs (SATA II / SATA III) SSD's are super fast for Read/Write and to Boot Speeds… App's launch, run, save and close much faster than HDD's even in RAID Arrays! (RAID is Great for Storage Systems) Although very expensive to purchase SSD's, once you get used to their performance is almost impossible to go back to a HDD as a Boot/OS Drive if you have used one for any length of time (Way Too Slow!) (It is my personal opinion that SSD's are the better way to go but that is just my opinion!) There are some that would argue that point but, not that many years ago floppies were the storage medium and OS's ran on small DataDisc file format… Big overall size (Dimensions) 7¼" FloppyDisk's… and such!
You can upgrade SSD/HDD's, RAM, Optical Drives (Blu-ray Disc-BDXL / HD-DVD / DVDAudio / DVD / SACD / CD vs DVD / CD only), But you cannot upgrade the CPU, GPU, or Display on a Laptop so purchase the best of those three and upgrade the rest as you can afford the better SSD-HDD(BootDrive)/RAM/Optical Drives/SSD-HDD Storage options…
I personally went with the 17" MBP for several reasons…
1) The 1920x1200 Display… it is Not a Retina Display but that is better than 1920x1080P HDTV, and on a 17" MBP 1920x1200 Display most things Look Great! Much better than the 15" 1680x1050/1440x900 (Low Res stuff not so much, but as with any display garbage in garbage out!)…
2) The 3 USB2 Slots, as my VAIO (only had 2 USB2 slots Not Enough most times!) and the, (the MBP 15" uses a SD Flashcard Slot) as my VAIO also had one for SD/MS slot.
3) The ExpressCard Slot as my VAIO had one, I already had many options for that ExpressCard interface, which uses SATA II Read/Write speeds, for data/file transfer-rates, such as… eSATA ExpressCards, 48-128GB SSD ExpressCards, Flash Card Reader/Writer ExpressCards, USB3 ExpressCards…
4) The larger overall size is actually a great attribute as it has more aluminum in the enclosure to help aid in cooling of the laptop systems heat dissipation (One of the Biggest Failure Rate Causes of any Laptop/Desktop is Heat Dissipation)!
At first it seemed quite large, but the extra screen real estate is great, and the more options for customization of it's upgrades is hard to discount… just for the extra in X & Y dimensions as the Z dimension is still less than 1 inch thick! (Remember I used a Sony VAIO 13" Z CTO and it is only 1" thick and 3 lbs of Carbon Fiber Ultra Notebook… and at 1920x1200 on a 13" Display it is crisp/sharp but a whole lot smaller/harder to view things on its Display)… The MBP 17" is not that much more in weight as compared to older laptops or general overall size!
Someone mentioned above about running App's that are estimating databases and such… Xactimate (Windows Only) is an estimating SW used by Insurance Company's, Builders-Developers, Contractors, Restoration (Storm/Flood/Fire/Smoke Damage) Company's, AutoCAD, Revit, 3ds Max, Chief Architect, FinalCut (All Video SW Packages Win or OSX), LogicStudio, Protools… all push the limits of the system and Very Large (10-50GB) or Extremely Large (50-75GB+) files can absolutely KILL a Laptop (I have personally toasted three very well equipped ones!) and it really sucks to have to replace one in the middle of a deadline pushed project!
It is much better for a Power-User to have a machine that can do more than the average desktop can… and almost what a workstation can (maybe not the super-workstation can, but that is not very portable ether!) My MBP17" fits in a backpack along with all the extras (Optical Drives, USB/eSATA External HDD's, ExpressCards, USB Flash Drives, Blank BD/DVD/CD's) even a Kleenex Box size Printer if need be. Sometimes the MBP goes in a waterproof hard briefcase for travel but not always.
Granted it will not replace My Mac Pro or High-End Windows Workstation but with two or three external monitors at up to 2860x1600 that MBP 17' with all of it's upgrades is a Bad-Ass System that is totally portable and/or almost as capable as a machine that will cost at least three to ten times as much to purchase, and take up a whole lot more space on your table or desk or …? At the office or at home the external displays totally rock its performance enhancement options!
** Oh yeah and it all can go anywhere... You Go!!! **
AppleStore.com has refurbished 15/17 MBP's (Late 2011 / Early 2012) available, as well as MacMall.com (Authorized Mac Reseller/New or Used) depending on where your located the Actual Retail Stores of each also have units available… the other option is OWC.com or MacSales.com (It's the same Company) it is a Company that sells a lot of Consumer and Enterprise Options with Tons of Upgrades for Mac Hardware/Software! Maybe they can help you on the Used side of the Hardware search, They are very helpful with HW Solutions and the Tech Support is Great! CTO…
FYI - Some of the comments on this thread speak about PowerPC Mac's to my knowledge I have not seen anyone use a hack to run Windows XP/Vista/7 on PPC processors I do not think it will run to well or at all, only Intel/AMD processors… I maybe Wrong But CIO before going with any PPC Mac's… Also there are a lot of postings about what are commonly called Hacintosh's or Multi-Boot or Multi-OS on Windows Based PC's…
As I have more time in the next day or two, I will add more on details of Multiple OS's on Mac Hardware… and I am not totally just Dual-Boot Systems it just runs better for my needs… I have seen a lot of people use VM/Parallels, and they Love It! It's just that you have to allocate a certain amount of HD/RAM to run the system that way! As OS's keep growing in size to do more so does the amount of RAM needed just to run the system at an Idol. I can MAX out 16GB without trying very hard and use App's like FreeMemory Pro… ALL time to recover that Inactive Memory that seems to grow really fast on some of the more advanced App's or Browsers that are real RAM Hogs! I have not seen any more than 16GB DDR3 RAM sticks in SO-SDRAM when they put out 32GB to 48GB or more I might try a VM System…
Another issue with a VM/Parallels system is virus protection which is a whole other critter to keep it up and running at top speed and max performance, with out bogging down the overall load on the system!
— "Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee —
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U64)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win7U64) + Four 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
** It would be really nice to see a MBP 17” with a retina display with 2560x1600+ (or 3840X2400) LED, HD-R GPU 4GB GDDR5, (2) Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM Ivy bridge or better… Quad/Six Core CPU's, 16/32/48GB 1600/2000 MHz DDR3 RAM, (2) 500-1TB 6Gbs SSD’s (for RAID 0 or OS-App's/Separate Storage), TB/USB 3.0/FW/eSATA/ExpressCard 34/54 to run whatever, external BDXL/DVD/CD Drive optical disc usage (Pioneer BDR-XD04 ext. slim/Pioneer BDR-206MBK desktop 5.25” in an ext. enclosure), up to 100-125GB on one BRXL-SL/DL/TL/QL Optical Disc for BD-3D or an extra archive for the back-up to multiple TB's of Storage HDD’s. **
Hey Joel,
Are you looking to do the upgrades your self? If so the MBP 13" use Dual-Core i5 / i7's, Not the Quad-Core versions, as well as the graphics are the Intel 3000/4000, Not the AMD-ATI (2011) / NIVIDA (2012) version like the MBP 15 / 17's do! This is a note to self… the Intel 3K/4K use shared RAM with the System RAM or less RAM for rendering High-Usage GPU App's. The 15"/17" at first seemed huge to me also… as I was using a Sony VAIO 13' Z CTO maxed-out config.
The upgradeability of the 15/17's seemed like a better fit as an all around work-horse. The MBP 15" has the Quad-Core CPU, ATI/NVIDIA GPU 1GB GDDR5, 1440x900, with the option of HD Display 1680x1050, the MBP 17" has 1920x1200 HD Display. The RAM can go up to 16GB of 1333 MHz DDR3/1600 MHz DDR3L, you can install 2 (SSD/HDD) drives up to 1TB, one in each bay, for each of the two machines, and use the optical drive in an external enclosure. Which allows for multiple options in system configurability… One OS on each drive, or Dual Boot/VM-Parallels on one drive or partitioned for two OS's, and the second for storage, or RAID 0 for Striping of the two drives for faster performance, or RAID 1 for Mirroring of the one of two drives/redundancy or failure protection, or RAID 10 for Striping and Mirroring across both drives. Not sure if the VM/Parallels SW runs well on RAID configured Systems would have to search to learn more!
SSD's vs HDD's the new 3Gbs / 6Gbs (SATA II / SATA III) SSD's are super fast for Read/Write and to Boot Speeds… App's launch, run, save and close much faster than HDD's even in RAID Arrays! (RAID is Great for Storage Systems) Although very expensive to purchase SSD's, once you get used to their performance is almost impossible to go back to a HDD as a Boot/OS Drive if you have used one for any length of time (Way Too Slow!) (It is my personal opinion that SSD's are the better way to go but that is just my opinion!) There are some that would argue that point but, not that many years ago floppies were the storage medium and OS's ran on small DataDisc file format… Big overall size (Dimensions) 7¼" FloppyDisk's… and such!
You can upgrade SSD/HDD's, RAM, Optical Drives (Blu-ray Disc-BDXL / HD-DVD / DVDAudio / DVD / SACD / CD vs DVD / CD only), But you cannot upgrade the CPU, GPU, or Display on a Laptop so purchase the best of those three and upgrade the rest as you can afford the better SSD-HDD(BootDrive)/RAM/Optical Drives/SSD-HDD Storage options…
I personally went with the 17" MBP for several reasons…
1) The 1920x1200 Display… it is Not a Retina Display but that is better than 1920x1080P HDTV, and on a 17" MBP 1920x1200 Display most things Look Great! Much better than the 15" 1680x1050/1440x900 (Low Res stuff not so much, but as with any display garbage in garbage out!)…
2) The 3 USB2 Slots, as my VAIO (only had 2 USB2 slots Not Enough most times!) and the, (the MBP 15" uses a SD Flashcard Slot) as my VAIO also had one for SD/MS slot.
3) The ExpressCard Slot as my VAIO had one, I already had many options for that ExpressCard interface, which uses SATA II Read/Write speeds, for data/file transfer-rates, such as… eSATA ExpressCards, 48-128GB SSD ExpressCards, Flash Card Reader/Writer ExpressCards, USB3 ExpressCards…
4) The larger overall size is actually a great attribute as it has more aluminum in the enclosure to help aid in cooling of the laptop systems heat dissipation (One of the Biggest Failure Rate Causes of any Laptop/Desktop is Heat Dissipation)!
At first it seemed quite large, but the extra screen real estate is great, and the more options for customization of it's upgrades is hard to discount… just for the extra in X & Y dimensions as the Z dimension is still less than 1 inch thick! (Remember I used a Sony VAIO 13" Z CTO and it is only 1" thick and 3 lbs of Carbon Fiber Ultra Notebook… and at 1920x1200 on a 13" Display it is crisp/sharp but a whole lot smaller/harder to view things on its Display)… The MBP 17" is not that much more in weight as compared to older laptops or general overall size!
Someone mentioned above about running App's that are estimating databases and such… Xactimate (Windows Only) is an estimating SW used by Insurance Company's, Builders-Developers, Contractors, Restoration (Storm/Flood/Fire/Smoke Damage) Company's, AutoCAD, Revit, 3ds Max, Chief Architect, FinalCut (All Video SW Packages Win or OSX), LogicStudio, Protools… all push the limits of the system and Very Large (10-50GB) or Extremely Large (50-75GB+) files can absolutely KILL a Laptop (I have personally toasted three very well equipped ones!) and it really sucks to have to replace one in the middle of a deadline pushed project!
It is much better for a Power-User to have a machine that can do more than the average desktop can… and almost what a workstation can (maybe not the super-workstation can, but that is not very portable ether!) My MBP17" fits in a backpack along with all the extras (Optical Drives, USB/eSATA External HDD's, ExpressCards, USB Flash Drives, Blank BD/DVD/CD's) even a Kleenex Box size Printer if need be. Sometimes the MBP goes in a waterproof hard briefcase for travel but not always.
Granted it will not replace My Mac Pro or High-End Windows Workstation but with two or three external monitors at up to 2860x1600 that MBP 17' with all of it's upgrades is a Bad-Ass System that is totally portable and/or almost as capable as a machine that will cost at least three to ten times as much to purchase, and take up a whole lot more space on your table or desk or …? At the office or at home the external displays totally rock its performance enhancement options!
** Oh yeah and it all can go anywhere... You Go!!! **
AppleStore.com has refurbished 15/17 MBP's (Late 2011 / Early 2012) available, as well as MacMall.com (Authorized Mac Reseller/New or Used) depending on where your located the Actual Retail Stores of each also have units available… the other option is OWC.com or MacSales.com (It's the same Company) it is a Company that sells a lot of Consumer and Enterprise Options with Tons of Upgrades for Mac Hardware/Software! Maybe they can help you on the Used side of the Hardware search, They are very helpful with HW Solutions and the Tech Support is Great! CTO…
FYI - Some of the comments on this thread speak about PowerPC Mac's to my knowledge I have not seen anyone use a hack to run Windows XP/Vista/7 on PPC processors I do not think it will run to well or at all, only Intel/AMD processors… I maybe Wrong But CIO before going with any PPC Mac's… Also there are a lot of postings about what are commonly called Hacintosh's or Multi-Boot or Multi-OS on Windows Based PC's…
As I have more time in the next day or two, I will add more on details of Multiple OS's on Mac Hardware… and I am not totally just Dual-Boot Systems it just runs better for my needs… I have seen a lot of people use VM/Parallels, and they Love It! It's just that you have to allocate a certain amount of HD/RAM to run the system that way! As OS's keep growing in size to do more so does the amount of RAM needed just to run the system at an Idol. I can MAX out 16GB without trying very hard and use App's like FreeMemory Pro… ALL time to recover that Inactive Memory that seems to grow really fast on some of the more advanced App's or Browsers that are real RAM Hogs! I have not seen any more than 16GB DDR3 RAM sticks in SO-SDRAM when they put out 32GB to 48GB or more I might try a VM System…
Another issue with a VM/Parallels system is virus protection which is a whole other critter to keep it up and running at top speed and max performance, with out bogging down the overall load on the system!
— "Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee —
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U64)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win7U64) + Four 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
** It would be really nice to see a MBP 17” with a retina display with 2560x1600+ (or 3840X2400) LED, HD-R GPU 4GB GDDR5, (2) Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM Ivy bridge or better… Quad/Six Core CPU's, 16/32/48GB 1600/2000 MHz DDR3 RAM, (2) 500-1TB 6Gbs SSD’s (for RAID 0 or OS-App's/Separate Storage), TB/USB 3.0/FW/eSATA/ExpressCard 34/54 to run whatever, external BDXL/DVD/CD Drive optical disc usage (Pioneer BDR-XD04 ext. slim/Pioneer BDR-206MBK desktop 5.25” in an ext. enclosure), up to 100-125GB on one BRXL-SL/DL/TL/QL Optical Disc for BD-3D or an extra archive for the back-up to multiple TB's of Storage HDD’s. **
Last edited:
Being a windows user for that time period your probably going to want to stay there, you will surely miss all the quick customizable options available for the software side and hardware side. I'm in the process of building my own pc as I want full control, and choice in what parts I get with and the confidence of knowing that I don't have to buy a new computer every time I need a new graphics card like you would in an iMac or macbook.
I might suggest a Mac Pro if its within your price limit? But again it won't be as customizable as most PC cases that are for custom builds today.
I have 2 iMacs in the house, I got them because they are fluid, high quality and look great. Not only that they perform great also but for the graphic intense work I'm now undergoing I'm switching over to a dual monitor windows setup that as I stated above I am 'currently' building
Choose as you wish.
I might suggest a Mac Pro if its within your price limit? But again it won't be as customizable as most PC cases that are for custom builds today.
I have 2 iMacs in the house, I got them because they are fluid, high quality and look great. Not only that they perform great also but for the graphic intense work I'm now undergoing I'm switching over to a dual monitor windows setup that as I stated above I am 'currently' building
Choose as you wish.
I've been using both windows and mac for years, since bootcamp I can now run them conveniently on my Mac. DF9 sums it up far better and longer than I could!
The best of both worlds I say, since windows 7 has at last got microsoft to parity between the two operating systems. To get the best out of windows on the mac via bootcamp though you have to tweak 7 to enable AHCI support for an SSD.
You mentioned the laserjet 3390 though - i own one. You get basic driver support with win 7 64 bit but the enhanced 64 bit hp driver is coded for Vista and is buggy and glitchy to put it mildly! If you really want it you must install it in Vista compatibility mode.
Lion support is limited to print only officially but worked on snow leopard but I got my scanner working by performing solution 5 in this link:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00274694&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en#N8005
The best of both worlds I say, since windows 7 has at last got microsoft to parity between the two operating systems. To get the best out of windows on the mac via bootcamp though you have to tweak 7 to enable AHCI support for an SSD.
You mentioned the laserjet 3390 though - i own one. You get basic driver support with win 7 64 bit but the enhanced 64 bit hp driver is coded for Vista and is buggy and glitchy to put it mildly! If you really want it you must install it in Vista compatibility mode.
Lion support is limited to print only officially but worked on snow leopard but I got my scanner working by performing solution 5 in this link:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00274694&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en#N8005
Okay, serious question ahead: If Windows 7 has at last got Microsoft to parity between the two operating systems, why would/should someone use a Mac if they're already very comfortable with Windows?
Hey Joel,
Are you looking to do the upgrades your self? If so the MBP 13" use Dual-Core i5 / i7's, Not the Quad-Core versions, as well as the graphics are the Intel 3000/4000, Not the AMD-ATI (2011) / NIVIDA (2012) version like the MBP 15 / 17's do! This is a note to self the Intel 3K/4K use shared RAM with the System RAM or less RAM for rendering High-Usage GPU App's. The 15"/17" at first seemed huge to me also as I was using a Sony VAIO 13' Z CTO maxed-out config.
The upgradeability of the 15/17's seemed like a better fit as an all around work-horse. The MBP 15" has the Quad-Core CPU, ATI/NVIDIA GPU 1GB GDDR5, 1440x900, with the option of HD Display 1680x1050, the MBP 17" has 1920x1200 HD Display. The RAM can go up to 16GB of 1333 MHz DDR3/1600 MHz DDR3L, you can install 2 (SSD/HDD) drives up to 1TB, one in each bay, for each of the two machines, and use the optical drive in an external enclosure. Which allows for multiple options in system configurability One OS on each drive, or Dual Boot/VM-Parallels on one drive or partitioned for two OS's, and the second for storage, or RAID 0 for Striping of the two drives for faster performance, or RAID 1 for Mirroring of the one of two drives/redundancy or failure protection, or RAID 10 for Striping and Mirroring across both drives. Not sure if the VM/Parallels SW runs well on RAID configured Systems would have to search to learn more!
SSD's vs HDD's the new 3Gbs / 6Gbs (SATA II / SATA III) SSD's are super fast for Read/Write and to Boot Speeds App's launch, run, save and close much faster than HDD's even in RAID Arrays! (RAID is Great for Storage Systems) Although very expensive to purchase SSD's, once you get used to their performance is almost impossible to go back to a HDD as a Boot/OS Drive if you have used one for any length of time (Way Too Slow!) (It is my personal opinion that SSD's are the better way to go but that is just my opinion!) There are some that would argue that point but, not that many years ago floppies were the storage medium and OS's ran on small DataDisc file format Big overall size (Dimensions) 7¼" FloppyDisk's and such!
You can upgrade SSD/HDD's, RAM, Optical Drives (Blu-ray Disc-BDXL / HD-DVD / DVDAudio / DVD / SACD / CD vs DVD / CD only), But you cannot upgrade the CPU, GPU, or Display on a Laptop so purchase the best of those three and upgrade the rest as you can afford the better SSD-HDD(BootDrive)/RAM/Optical Drives/SSD-HDD Storage options
I personally went with the 17" MBP for several reasons
1) The 1920x1200 Display it is Not a Retina Display but that is better than 1920x1080P HDTV, and on a 17" MBP 1920x1200 Display most things Look Great! Much better than the 15" 1680x1050/1440x900 (Low Res stuff not so much, but as with any display garbage in garbage out!)
2) The 3 USB2 Slots, as my VAIO (only had 2 USB2 slots Not Enough most times!) and the, (the MBP 15" uses a SD Flashcard Slot) as my VAIO also had one for SD/MS slot.
3) The ExpressCard Slot as my VAIO had one, I already had many options for that ExpressCard interface, which uses SATA II Read/Write speeds, for data/file transfer-rates, such as eSATA ExpressCards, 48-128GB SSD ExpressCards, Flash Card Reader/Writer ExpressCards, USB3 ExpressCards
4) The larger overall size is actually a great attribute as it has more aluminum in the enclosure to help aid in cooling of the laptop systems heat dissipation (One of the Biggest Failure Rate Causes of any Laptop/Desktop is Heat Dissipation)!
At first it seemed quite large, but the extra screen real estate is great, and the more options for customization of it's upgrades is hard to discount just for the extra in X & Y dimensions as the Z dimension is still less than 1 inch thick! (Remember I used a Sony VAIO 13" Z CTO and it is only 1" thick and 3 lbs of Carbon Fiber Ultra Notebook and at 1920x1200 on a 13" Display it is crisp/sharp but a whole lot smaller/harder to view things on its Display) The MBP 17" is not that much more in weight as compared to older laptops or general overall size!
Someone mentioned above about running App's that are estimating databases and such Xactimate (Windows Only) is an estimating SW used by Insurance Company's, Builders-Developers, Contractors, Restoration (Storm/Flood/Fire/Smoke Damage) Company's, AutoCAD, Revit, 3ds Max, Chief Architect, FinalCut (All Video SW Packages Win or OSX), LogicStudio, Protools all push the limits of the system and Very Large (10-50GB) or Extremely Large (50-75GB+) files can absolutely KILL a Laptop (I have personally toasted three very well equipped ones!) and it really sucks to have to replace one in the middle of a deadline pushed project!
It is much better for a Power-User to have a machine that can do more than the average desktop can and almost what a workstation can (maybe not the super-workstation can, but that is not very portable ether!) My MBP17" fits in a backpack along with all the extras (Optical Drives, USB/eSATA External HDD's, ExpressCards, USB Flash Drives, Blank BD/DVD/CD's) even a Kleenex Box size Printer if need be. Sometimes the MBP goes in a waterproof hard briefcase for travel but not always.
Granted it will not replace My Mac Pro or High-End Windows Workstation but with two or three external monitors at up to 2860x1600 that MBP 17' with all of it's upgrades is a Bad-Ass System that is totally portable and/or almost as capable as a machine that will cost at least three to ten times as much to purchase, and take up a whole lot more space on your table or desk or ? At the office or at home the external displays totally rock its performance enhancement options!
** Oh yeah and it all can go anywhere... You Go!!! **
AppleStore.com has refurbished 15/17 MBP's (Late 2011 / Early 2012) available, as well as MacMall.com (Authorized Mac Reseller/New or Used) depending on where your located the Actual Retail Stores of each also have units available the other option is OWC.com or MacSales.com (It's the same Company) it is a Company that sells a lot of Consumer and Enterprise Options with Tons of Upgrades for Mac Hardware/Software! Maybe they can help you on the Used side of the Hardware search, They are very helpful with HW Solutions and the Tech Support is Great! CTO
FYI - Some of the comments on this thread speak about PowerPC Mac's to my knowledge I have not seen anyone use a hack to run Windows XP/Vista/7 on PPC processors I do not think it will run to well or at all, only Intel/AMD processors I maybe Wrong But CIO before going with any PPC Mac's Also there are a lot of postings about what are commonly called Hacintosh's or Multi-Boot or Multi-OS on Windows Based PC's
As I have more time in the next day or two, I will add more on details of Multiple OS's on Mac Hardware and I am not totally just Dual-Boot Systems it just runs better for my needs I have seen a lot of people use VM/Parallels, and they Love It! It's just that you have to allocate a certain amount of HD/RAM to run the system that way! As OS's keep growing in size to do more so does the amount of RAM needed just to run the system at an Idol. I can MAX out 16GB without trying very hard and use App's like FreeMemory Pro ALL time to recover that Inactive Memory that seems to grow really fast on some of the more advanced App's or Browsers that are real RAM Hogs! I have not seen any more than 16GB DDR3 RAM sticks in SO-SDRAM when they put out 32GB to 48GB or more I might try a VM System
Another issue with a VM/Parallels system is virus protection which is a whole other critter to keep it up and running at top speed and max performance, with out bogging down the overall load on the system!
DF9:
Appreciate the information and look froward to additional feedback.
As far as size is concerned I am more interested in a 13" unit -- my preference -- as it is what I am use to and what will fit in my briefcase...as far as constraints of this unit are concerned:
1. The 13" size, of course, leads to a conversation where resolution is critical to make up for the smaller screen size and, on this point, I am disappointed that the 13" MBP has a maximum resolution of 1280 x800 which is too limited for my liking.
2. The HDD versus SSD and in this regard I greatly prefer a SSD for the reasons you note.
The point being that I do not think that the current iteration of a 13" MBP is the device for me...the next might be of interest but at what cost.
With that, I will wait for further information from you.
Joel
Regarding your question about the Cisco VPN connection - Cisco's IPSec client will not work in x64 mode, which is what Lion and Mountain Lion use. You can force Lion to x86 and it will work, but it was not designed to be used that way.
The built-in Cisco IPSec client in Snow Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion will connect to Cisco ASA Security Appliances, but NOT Cisco routers or PIXs. If you are connecting to a Cisco router, you will need to use AnyConnect. If you are connecting to a PIX, you really have no option.
I have used OS X since 10.4 (when Apple first moved to Intel processors) and have been using it on and off since then. I will add my experiences-
As a technology enthusiest, I enjoy pretty much anything computer related. I think OS X is nice because it is something different to use than what I use at work. My job pretty much requires Windows. Like some have stated - I can do my job in OS X, but I am not nearly as efficient. Microsoft Office for OS X does not perform nearly as well, and if you are used to Office 2010 for Windows, you will find that about the only thing it shares with Office 2011 is the name. I am not a graphic artist/designer - I work more in the technical field. I find myself much more efficient using Windows for this. Most applications simply are more resposive - from Microsoft Word, to Outlook, to applications like QuickBooks, etc.
With that said, I do enjoy using OS X for home computing tasks, such as managing photos, videos, music, and web browsing, etc. OS X is very stable and works well. There are a few things that get in the way, however.
If you are used to working in Windows, you are used to using the right-click. Apples implementation of this works okay, but 1 out of 10 attempts sometimes results in a left click, unless you are using a two button mouse.
Scrolling works wonderful in OS X, but if you are using Boot Camp or VMware Fusion to run Windows, scrolling does not work the best.
Support for OS X is in question (for me). It seems that Apple is going to commit to a yearly release cycle. If they do, and stick to their previous support lifecycle, it will mean that two previous versions back will be out of date. OS X 10.5 is not really supported any longer, and many applications will not run on 10.5. 10.6 will be the new 10.5 when Mountain Lion is released later this month and support will end very soon for it. Unless you intend on updating every year, which will probably mean updating your applicaitons as well, the system will become fragmented quickly IMO. If you stick with your old OS that is meeting your needs and running your applications, you will all of a sudden not be able to run anything new. If you upgrade the OS to run something new, your old application may no longer run. Microsoft offeres a 10 year support lifecycle for their Windows products, which is much more attractive IMO.
I use a Macintosh as a secondary system. I do enjoy using it very much, but I would not want one as my primary business system - particularly the new non-upgradable retina MacBook.
The built-in Cisco IPSec client in Snow Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion will connect to Cisco ASA Security Appliances, but NOT Cisco routers or PIXs. If you are connecting to a Cisco router, you will need to use AnyConnect. If you are connecting to a PIX, you really have no option.
I have used OS X since 10.4 (when Apple first moved to Intel processors) and have been using it on and off since then. I will add my experiences-
As a technology enthusiest, I enjoy pretty much anything computer related. I think OS X is nice because it is something different to use than what I use at work. My job pretty much requires Windows. Like some have stated - I can do my job in OS X, but I am not nearly as efficient. Microsoft Office for OS X does not perform nearly as well, and if you are used to Office 2010 for Windows, you will find that about the only thing it shares with Office 2011 is the name. I am not a graphic artist/designer - I work more in the technical field. I find myself much more efficient using Windows for this. Most applications simply are more resposive - from Microsoft Word, to Outlook, to applications like QuickBooks, etc.
With that said, I do enjoy using OS X for home computing tasks, such as managing photos, videos, music, and web browsing, etc. OS X is very stable and works well. There are a few things that get in the way, however.
If you are used to working in Windows, you are used to using the right-click. Apples implementation of this works okay, but 1 out of 10 attempts sometimes results in a left click, unless you are using a two button mouse.
Scrolling works wonderful in OS X, but if you are using Boot Camp or VMware Fusion to run Windows, scrolling does not work the best.
Support for OS X is in question (for me). It seems that Apple is going to commit to a yearly release cycle. If they do, and stick to their previous support lifecycle, it will mean that two previous versions back will be out of date. OS X 10.5 is not really supported any longer, and many applications will not run on 10.5. 10.6 will be the new 10.5 when Mountain Lion is released later this month and support will end very soon for it. Unless you intend on updating every year, which will probably mean updating your applicaitons as well, the system will become fragmented quickly IMO. If you stick with your old OS that is meeting your needs and running your applications, you will all of a sudden not be able to run anything new. If you upgrade the OS to run something new, your old application may no longer run. Microsoft offeres a 10 year support lifecycle for their Windows products, which is much more attractive IMO.
I use a Macintosh as a secondary system. I do enjoy using it very much, but I would not want one as my primary business system - particularly the new non-upgradable retina MacBook.
Being a windows user for that time period your probably going to want to stay there, you will surely miss all the quick customizable options available for the software side and hardware side. I'm in the process of building my own pc as I want full control, and choice in what parts I get with and the confidence of knowing that I don't have to buy a new computer every time I need a new graphics card like you would in an iMac or macbook.
I might suggest a Mac Pro if its within your price limit? But again it won't be as customizable as most PC cases that are for custom builds today.
I have 2 iMacs in the house, I got them because they are fluid, high quality and look great. Not only that they perform great also but for the graphic intense work I'm now undergoing I'm switching over to a dual monitor windows setup that as I stated above I am 'currently' building
Choose as you wish.
Appreciate the response and your perspective.
I am not concerned over hardware issues as I tend to kill laptops within 18 months of getting them -- just ask our IT guys. I am however concerned about the ability to customize the desktop, etc. to my liking.
I think you may be right that Windows is the better option for me but I truly want to try a Mac before coming to that conclusion...hopefully work will slow down a little -- not too much -- and I will find the time to give OS X a try.
The other point is that I would to build / learn OS X while having a Windows machine in parallel as this will take off the pressure...that is, I can fully learn OS X before moving to it.
Joel
----------
Interesting...you are, I believe, the first to view OS X and Windows 7 as being on par...
Though I would have to think about this some more were I to have a machine at hand today I would likely install Windows on bootcamp and then parallels on top of this...
Thanks, much appreciated...the scanner is a must for me...
----------
Excellent point!
----------
Appreciate the response but will need to re-read it tomorrow when I am less tired and will comment on it then...
This would apply directly to me as I have very similar use needs and this -- as you note -- begs the question, why move...
I have zero interest / need -- at least at present -- on managing photos, watching videos (music or otherwise), etc...
Problem...I will get a two button mouse...
Hmmmmm....
There is a good reason to stick with Windows...that said, will this change when Windows starts selling their new OS for $50.00?
Really appreciate the time and the informative post...a lot of things to consider...
----------
Help me decide....
I have a friend who is selling his 1 year old MBP...the specs are as follows:
1. 13" i7 MBP...this will not have my ideal resolution.
2. 4 GB of RAM which has since been upgraded to 8 GB
3. 750 GB 7200 RPM HDD...would prefer a SSD
4. Extras include a carry case, protective case and key pad protector
4. Apple Care until until February 2014.
Should I go for this machine and, if yes, what would a fair price be?
Thanks,
Joel
I don't expect it to. I don't think that Microsoft will start a yearly update - that is way to often for corporations to work around. I think they are doing the $39 upgrade to try to get their foot in the door to challenge the iPad with Windows 8 tablets. They are trying to sell as many copies as they can and get developers on board. It will be about the only way I think a company will make a dent in iPad sales. Android sure has nothing to offer there.
You can see the Windows lifecycle policy here:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
----------
That would be a nice machine.
As you stated, the resolution is a little low on the 13" (I still have no idea why they don't offer the MacBook Air screen in the Pro model), but other than that, it has the needed 8GB of RAM (Lion is very slow on the 13" with an HDD and 4GB). Not sure on the value. What is he asking?
Considering the "Dark Side"... Continued!!!
Hey Joel,
Totally agree with the MBP13" if that fits your needs best… as there is a multitude of great upgrades for that unit! I am sure you will be very happy with that unit… as I have several friends and colleagues that use them very hard daily and love them! They would tell you that it is the best laptop they ever used as a portable workhorse.
The Sony VAIO 13" SZ (1200x800) that I used, before the VAIO 13" Z CTO (1980x1200), (both 3lb. carbon fiber units) the two units I used before my current MBP 17" and they were real work horses. The only thing I can say was that I wish that the GPU's did not get COOKED and destroy those laptops logic board ($1200 just for New MB), as they were a very good machines! That 1200x800 display does look very good for everything that you have mentioned as the App's you use most, and the 13" MBP's display "Looks Much Much Better" than my VAIO 13" SZ ever did! If you are ever using any App that requires a higher resolution display you can hook-up an external display up to 2560x1600 to enhanse that machine… i.e. the Apple 27" Thunderbolt (expensive… check out sites like macmall.com or…? for good prices) of which you can run through the TB connection on the 13" MBP.
Not sure if it is an early 2011 or late 2011 MBP 13"… if you can look at the machine before it is wiped clean or what ever you and him decide to do with its current situation is… (Why is he selling it?)… Although to be sure you can call AppleCare Tech Support and/or make an appointment to see a tech at an "Apple Genius Bar" inside one of their retail stores or MacMall retail stores also are "Apple Certified Repair Centers" (there are other Apple Certified Repair Centers as well, just look for the ACRS's to see what is the closest to you) and they can run a diagnostic evaluation on that machine if you need better verification about the long term stability of that unit! If all looks good and you trust that person and if something goes wrong it won't ruin a good friend or work place relationship then "You Are Good To Go"!
A few things to look at yourself…
In the upper left corner of the toolbar there is a logo… click on it and go to "About This Mac" a window will open telling you info about that unit…
Mac OS X Ver. 10.?.?
Processor ? GHz Intel Core i7
Memory ? GB 1333 GHz DDR3
Startup Disk Macintosh or (if renamed)
If you click on the "More Info" tab it will give more info… the "About This Mac" window has six tabs in the grey bar on the top of that next window…
Overview...
MacBook Pro
-13-inch, Early 2011 or Late 2011
-Processor ? GHz Intel Core i5 or i7
-Memory ? GB 1333 MHz DDR3
-Graphics Intel 3000 ? Mb
-Serial Number ?……….
-Software Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Lion 10.?.? (?????)
Displays…
Built-in Color LCD Display
-13-inch (1200 x 800)
-Intel 3000 ?Mb Graphics
(If you connect an external display or two it/they will show-up here along with the built-in monitor of the laptop)
Storage…
-Macintosh ? Gb SATA Disk
-Optical Drive
Memory…
? GB Installed
- "Your Mac contains 2 memory slots, each of which accepts a 1333 MHz DDR3 memory module."
- ? GB / ? GB
Support… Self Explained!
Service… Self Explained!
While on the "Overview Tab"… If you click on "System Report" tab a window will open displaying all of the System Hardware, Network, Software… or System Resources in/on that Mac… for a more detailed version you can review all the different info about that machines profile there. Also you can see all of the App's installed on it so if you want to add or delete some you can. The next one to the right "Check for Updates" (Needs Internet Access) tab click it to see if the machine has all of the current updates for that unit.
Then look for the "System Preferences" (Control Panel in Windows)(in the Dock or Launch Pad) you can see and make most of your changes and customizing there. Next look for Activity Monitor (Task Manager in Windows)(in the Dock or Launch Pad) open it and this is all of the open App's and Processes running on that Mac System.
Not sure if the 8 GB RAM upgrade is "Apple Memory Sticks" or 3rd party just make sure that they are "Apple Certified Units" to ensure reliability of OSX… Not all of the SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM Memory Sticks sold are a great fit for Mac Hardware! Main thing to look for is… ** Meets and/or Exceeds Apple/Intel Specifications **
These the specs are from a pair of OWC 16GB 1333GHz DDR3 (2 x 8GB) the 8GB (2 x4GB) should be the same the Density is the only difference! (OWC RAM modules all have a Lifetime Warranty, I personally run them in my MBP)
Technology: DDR3 SO-DIMM
Density: 8GB (8192MB)
RoHS: Yes
Pin Count: 204-pin
Op. Temp.: 0C to +85C
Data Rate: DDR3-1333
Speed: PC3-10600
CL: CAS 9-9-9-24
Cycle Time: 1.875ns
Voltage: 1.5V
ECC: Non ECC
Module Ranks: Dual Rank
Register: Non Parity
Low Noise 8-Layer PCB
Meets and/or Exceeds Apple/Intel Specifications
Fully Compliant with JEDEC specifications
RoHS Certified
Free Installation Videos & Manuals
Warranty Safe Upgrade.
Lifetime Advance Replacement Warranty
Why do I need more RAM?
These the specs are from a pair of OWC 8GB 1333GHz DDR3, the 8GB (2 x4GB) should be the same, the Density is the only difference!
Technology: DDR3 SO-DIMM
Density: 4GB (4096MB) per module
RoHS: Yes
Comp. Count: 16
Depth: 256Mb
Width: x64
Pin Count: 204-pin
Op. Temp.: 0C to +85C
Data Rate: DDR3-1333
Speed: PC3-10600
CL: CAS 9-9-9-24
Cycle Time: 1.875ns
Voltage: 1.5V
Comp. Config: 256Meg x 8
ECC: Non ECC
Module Ranks: Dual Rank
Register: Non Parity
Low Noise 8-Layer PCB
Meets and/or Exceeds Apple/Intel Specifications
Fully Compliant with JEDEC specifications
RoHS Certified
Free Installation Videos & Manuals
Warranty Safe Upgrade.
Lifetime Advance Replacement Warranty
Why do I need more RAM?
Some of the best SSD's are the OWC 3Gbs/6Gbs SandForce Controlled Units… their 16GB 1333 MHz DDR3 RAM is also top of the line… again not cheap but you get what you pay for… especially when purchasing SSD's and 16GB sticks to run on a Mac (not all are HW parts are created equal when you are running them on a Mac) you will want get the best that you can afford or wait a little longer, until you can get the higher quality parts… thats why you are doing this search anyway… isn't it?
Regarding Bootcamp vs VM/Parallels…
Bootcamp creates a partition on the SSD/HDD to install another OS to Boot Into… meaning say if want to allocate 50% of that drive for each OS (or ?%/?% Space) when you first run Bootcamp to install that partition you are prompted/asked how much you space you want to use. So once you decide that, then Bootcamp will generate the "Drivers for Windows" to run on that machine… (Display, Keyboard, TrackPad, Sound Card,… and all of rest of System Drivers) and you save them to a flash drive or CD or DVD for later use after the Windows OS is installed! (Windows will only install from an Internal Optical Drive (No External Drive-MS Controlled) so if using a second or dual drive system can be very challenging at times too!) Then you install "Windows Install Disk" Once it has installed the OS you add the drivers you created earlier and you are good to go and do your customizing of your Windows Desktop at that point!
VMware/Parallels allows OSX to run Windows on the Desktop as an App just like Photoshop, Adobe CS5/6 Master Collection, FinalCut 7, etc… would, except that it is on a Virtual Machine as an open window within OSX! The drivers needed to run Windows within that App are generated while installing VM/Parallels SW… and Windows is installed in the VM/Parallels SW installed Virtual Machine!
In theory you could install Windows on a Bootcamp Partition and on the OSX Virtual Machine (VM/Parallels) but it would require Two Copies or Two Licenses of Windows… One for each the Bootcamp Partition and Another One for the VM installation! Even though it is really only one actual PC machine, OS wise it is two or three PC's depending on how you count them (OSX / WindowsBC / WindowsVM)!!!
I personally have not seen anyone get MS to let it them use the same License Number be Installed on more than one machine at a time… unless it is an Enterprise Version of Windows with Multiple User Licensing on that version!
Just to be clear all the things that I have mentioned (Sometimes way to Long!) are all things or issues that I had to research or find answers for myself to go to a MacBook Pro with OSX/Windows running on one machine! Anyway this is getting really long again :/ … I will add more later as you ask more! Hope this is useful and not too detailed!
Oh one more thing I use OSX and Windows for different things… the "Right Tool for the Job" so if you want more on that one let me know… My MBP is very or just as customized on OSX as it is on Windows… more on that if you want!
— "Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee —
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win 7U 64bit) + (4) 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet Echo ExpressCard Thunderbolt Adaptor / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Sonnet CF/CFP/SDXC/SD/MMC/XD/Sony SxS… Multi-Card Memory Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
Macbook Pro Retina 15'' 9,1 (Mid 2012) − Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM / 2880x1800 R-LED / NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 768GB Flash Storage (OS X/Win7U)
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
Hey Joel,
Totally agree with the MBP13" if that fits your needs best… as there is a multitude of great upgrades for that unit! I am sure you will be very happy with that unit… as I have several friends and colleagues that use them very hard daily and love them! They would tell you that it is the best laptop they ever used as a portable workhorse.
The Sony VAIO 13" SZ (1200x800) that I used, before the VAIO 13" Z CTO (1980x1200), (both 3lb. carbon fiber units) the two units I used before my current MBP 17" and they were real work horses. The only thing I can say was that I wish that the GPU's did not get COOKED and destroy those laptops logic board ($1200 just for New MB), as they were a very good machines! That 1200x800 display does look very good for everything that you have mentioned as the App's you use most, and the 13" MBP's display "Looks Much Much Better" than my VAIO 13" SZ ever did! If you are ever using any App that requires a higher resolution display you can hook-up an external display up to 2560x1600 to enhanse that machine… i.e. the Apple 27" Thunderbolt (expensive… check out sites like macmall.com or…? for good prices) of which you can run through the TB connection on the 13" MBP.
Not sure if it is an early 2011 or late 2011 MBP 13"… if you can look at the machine before it is wiped clean or what ever you and him decide to do with its current situation is… (Why is he selling it?)… Although to be sure you can call AppleCare Tech Support and/or make an appointment to see a tech at an "Apple Genius Bar" inside one of their retail stores or MacMall retail stores also are "Apple Certified Repair Centers" (there are other Apple Certified Repair Centers as well, just look for the ACRS's to see what is the closest to you) and they can run a diagnostic evaluation on that machine if you need better verification about the long term stability of that unit! If all looks good and you trust that person and if something goes wrong it won't ruin a good friend or work place relationship then "You Are Good To Go"!
A few things to look at yourself…
In the upper left corner of the toolbar there is a logo… click on it and go to "About This Mac" a window will open telling you info about that unit…
Mac OS X Ver. 10.?.?
Processor ? GHz Intel Core i7
Memory ? GB 1333 GHz DDR3
Startup Disk Macintosh or (if renamed)
If you click on the "More Info" tab it will give more info… the "About This Mac" window has six tabs in the grey bar on the top of that next window…
Overview...
MacBook Pro
-13-inch, Early 2011 or Late 2011
-Processor ? GHz Intel Core i5 or i7
-Memory ? GB 1333 MHz DDR3
-Graphics Intel 3000 ? Mb
-Serial Number ?……….
-Software Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Lion 10.?.? (?????)
Displays…
Built-in Color LCD Display
-13-inch (1200 x 800)
-Intel 3000 ?Mb Graphics
(If you connect an external display or two it/they will show-up here along with the built-in monitor of the laptop)
Storage…
-Macintosh ? Gb SATA Disk
-Optical Drive
Memory…
? GB Installed
- "Your Mac contains 2 memory slots, each of which accepts a 1333 MHz DDR3 memory module."
- ? GB / ? GB
Support… Self Explained!
Service… Self Explained!
While on the "Overview Tab"… If you click on "System Report" tab a window will open displaying all of the System Hardware, Network, Software… or System Resources in/on that Mac… for a more detailed version you can review all the different info about that machines profile there. Also you can see all of the App's installed on it so if you want to add or delete some you can. The next one to the right "Check for Updates" (Needs Internet Access) tab click it to see if the machine has all of the current updates for that unit.
Then look for the "System Preferences" (Control Panel in Windows)(in the Dock or Launch Pad) you can see and make most of your changes and customizing there. Next look for Activity Monitor (Task Manager in Windows)(in the Dock or Launch Pad) open it and this is all of the open App's and Processes running on that Mac System.
Not sure if the 8 GB RAM upgrade is "Apple Memory Sticks" or 3rd party just make sure that they are "Apple Certified Units" to ensure reliability of OSX… Not all of the SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM Memory Sticks sold are a great fit for Mac Hardware! Main thing to look for is… ** Meets and/or Exceeds Apple/Intel Specifications **
These the specs are from a pair of OWC 16GB 1333GHz DDR3 (2 x 8GB) the 8GB (2 x4GB) should be the same the Density is the only difference! (OWC RAM modules all have a Lifetime Warranty, I personally run them in my MBP)
Technology: DDR3 SO-DIMM
Density: 8GB (8192MB)
RoHS: Yes
Pin Count: 204-pin
Op. Temp.: 0C to +85C
Data Rate: DDR3-1333
Speed: PC3-10600
CL: CAS 9-9-9-24
Cycle Time: 1.875ns
Voltage: 1.5V
ECC: Non ECC
Module Ranks: Dual Rank
Register: Non Parity
Low Noise 8-Layer PCB
Meets and/or Exceeds Apple/Intel Specifications
Fully Compliant with JEDEC specifications
RoHS Certified
Free Installation Videos & Manuals
Warranty Safe Upgrade.
Lifetime Advance Replacement Warranty
Why do I need more RAM?
These the specs are from a pair of OWC 8GB 1333GHz DDR3, the 8GB (2 x4GB) should be the same, the Density is the only difference!
Technology: DDR3 SO-DIMM
Density: 4GB (4096MB) per module
RoHS: Yes
Comp. Count: 16
Depth: 256Mb
Width: x64
Pin Count: 204-pin
Op. Temp.: 0C to +85C
Data Rate: DDR3-1333
Speed: PC3-10600
CL: CAS 9-9-9-24
Cycle Time: 1.875ns
Voltage: 1.5V
Comp. Config: 256Meg x 8
ECC: Non ECC
Module Ranks: Dual Rank
Register: Non Parity
Low Noise 8-Layer PCB
Meets and/or Exceeds Apple/Intel Specifications
Fully Compliant with JEDEC specifications
RoHS Certified
Free Installation Videos & Manuals
Warranty Safe Upgrade.
Lifetime Advance Replacement Warranty
Why do I need more RAM?
Some of the best SSD's are the OWC 3Gbs/6Gbs SandForce Controlled Units… their 16GB 1333 MHz DDR3 RAM is also top of the line… again not cheap but you get what you pay for… especially when purchasing SSD's and 16GB sticks to run on a Mac (not all are HW parts are created equal when you are running them on a Mac) you will want get the best that you can afford or wait a little longer, until you can get the higher quality parts… thats why you are doing this search anyway… isn't it?
Regarding Bootcamp vs VM/Parallels…
Bootcamp creates a partition on the SSD/HDD to install another OS to Boot Into… meaning say if want to allocate 50% of that drive for each OS (or ?%/?% Space) when you first run Bootcamp to install that partition you are prompted/asked how much you space you want to use. So once you decide that, then Bootcamp will generate the "Drivers for Windows" to run on that machine… (Display, Keyboard, TrackPad, Sound Card,… and all of rest of System Drivers) and you save them to a flash drive or CD or DVD for later use after the Windows OS is installed! (Windows will only install from an Internal Optical Drive (No External Drive-MS Controlled) so if using a second or dual drive system can be very challenging at times too!) Then you install "Windows Install Disk" Once it has installed the OS you add the drivers you created earlier and you are good to go and do your customizing of your Windows Desktop at that point!
VMware/Parallels allows OSX to run Windows on the Desktop as an App just like Photoshop, Adobe CS5/6 Master Collection, FinalCut 7, etc… would, except that it is on a Virtual Machine as an open window within OSX! The drivers needed to run Windows within that App are generated while installing VM/Parallels SW… and Windows is installed in the VM/Parallels SW installed Virtual Machine!
In theory you could install Windows on a Bootcamp Partition and on the OSX Virtual Machine (VM/Parallels) but it would require Two Copies or Two Licenses of Windows… One for each the Bootcamp Partition and Another One for the VM installation! Even though it is really only one actual PC machine, OS wise it is two or three PC's depending on how you count them (OSX / WindowsBC / WindowsVM)!!!
I personally have not seen anyone get MS to let it them use the same License Number be Installed on more than one machine at a time… unless it is an Enterprise Version of Windows with Multiple User Licensing on that version!
Just to be clear all the things that I have mentioned (Sometimes way to Long!) are all things or issues that I had to research or find answers for myself to go to a MacBook Pro with OSX/Windows running on one machine! Anyway this is getting really long again :/ … I will add more later as you ask more! Hope this is useful and not too detailed!
Oh one more thing I use OSX and Windows for different things… the "Right Tool for the Job" so if you want more on that one let me know… My MBP is very or just as customized on OSX as it is on Windows… more on that if you want!
— "Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee —
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win 7U 64bit) + (4) 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet Echo ExpressCard Thunderbolt Adaptor / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Sonnet CF/CFP/SDXC/SD/MMC/XD/Sony SxS… Multi-Card Memory Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
Macbook Pro Retina 15'' 9,1 (Mid 2012) − Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM / 2880x1800 R-LED / NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 768GB Flash Storage (OS X/Win7U)
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
Last edited:
Considering the "Dark Side"... Continued!!!
Hey Joel,
For the most part you Can Customize OSX to your liking just like in Windows (maybe a little differently but it can be done), you just need to learn how it might be with-in OSX its self or with 3rd Party App's that enhance or add features to the OSX features most of those are free or very inexpensive to purchase.
Usually OSX is a bit easier to use as it is designed to be like that the "user" ease of use has and will always be the Mac Way! Some things do seem somewhat remedial, or not as many options, or clutter free to some, or the "ease to learn and to use", and that is the Mac Way again! That is not a dig to either of the two OS's, the things that you do use for each are just different. I personally love using Adobe CS5/6 MC, FinalCut, FinalDraft, Scrivener, LogicStudio, iTunes, etc as well as others on OSX. Moreover I personally love using Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Project, Visio, (Outlook however has a few things I don't like too much :/ but you can't always have your cake and eat it too!) AutoCAD, Revit, 3ds Max, ProTools, etc as well as others on Windows.
My point is the "Die-Hard Pro Single/Only or The OS" or to say that one is the better than the other is plain silly they were never intended to do exactly the same thing it is like using a flathead screwdriver on a philips head screw or a pipe wrench when you really need a box wrench or a socket set So the "MS Windows / MS Office Suite" is the "Industry Standard" for its purpose... just like "Mac OSX" is the "Industry Standard" for its purpose if I want to create great Résumés, Business Proposals, BID's, RFI, RFP, Spread Sheets-Gantt Charts, Project Control, PP Presentations etc you use MS Office Suite in Windows (not a big fan of MS Office for Mac too stripped down and sluggish), or use AutoCad, Revit, 3ds Max, SolidWorks, RISA, Xactimate they all are drafting/building or drafting/estimating software packages that run best or only on Windows if you want to create great Video/Sound Editing, Script/Novel Writing, Music Editing, Music Storage and Playback, Graphic Arts/Digital Photography and any of the Adobe Creative Suite App's, you would use OSX! But to make one or the other do everything at all times can be challenging at best!
Simply put you really need the... "The Right Tool for the Job" and "Where there is a Will, there is a Way"!
The Apple Magic Mouse works almost like the TrackPad does in the use of gestures, one, two, three finger swipes, pinch zoom, single-double tap, single click, double click, right click, (Yes you can get the Right Click) etc and are set to your liking in the "System Preferences" under the "Mouse Settings" as well as the "TractPad" under "TrackPad Settings" same as you would in Windows Control Panel! The 3rd Party App's like BetterTouchTool, MagicPrefs, and TinkerTool allow more fine adjustment of those settings (I use all three of them) you just need to try them to see what works you you will want to play with them as some of adjustments (gestures, etc ) are better than others and can be assigned to each App same as in Windows!
I personally use an Apple Magic Mouse and a couple of Logitech Mice (or what ever you prefer) they are for different App's AMM is for general use in OSX or Windows as it works mostly like the TrackPad does, the LM are for the App's like Photoshop, Lightroom, AutoCAD, SketchBook Pro, SketchUp, App's that require a more precision or App Specific Optioned curser movement! Just like a Wacom Tablet does for the aforementioned App's it also has lots of settings!
If you are looking for the "Aero Themed" windows or "Start" window or Specific Wallpaper Animation (you can DL a lot of WP's of the OSX Desktop) I have not see any hacks or App's for that! But I have seen hacks to make "Windows Look Like OSX"... if you can articulate what type of customizing you are looking for it might be easier to recommend some ideas for you check-out!
Guess what I am trying to articulate is that if you use each OS for what is designed for you will be two steps ahead of the pack who say one OS is better than the other! Have to say that a lot manufacturers do need to put better engineering into the hardware they are producing some of the best ideas, come the passion for the need of a product to evolve!
"Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win 7U 64bit) + (4) 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet Echo ExpressCard Thunderbolt Adaptor / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Sonnet CF/CFP/SDXC/SD/MMC/XD/Sony SxS Multi-Card Memory Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
Macbook Pro Retina 15'' 9,1 (Mid 2012) − Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM / 2880x1800 R-LED / NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 768GB Flash Storage (OS X/Win7U)
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
Hey Joel,
For the most part you Can Customize OSX to your liking just like in Windows (maybe a little differently but it can be done), you just need to learn how it might be with-in OSX its self or with 3rd Party App's that enhance or add features to the OSX features most of those are free or very inexpensive to purchase.
Usually OSX is a bit easier to use as it is designed to be like that the "user" ease of use has and will always be the Mac Way! Some things do seem somewhat remedial, or not as many options, or clutter free to some, or the "ease to learn and to use", and that is the Mac Way again! That is not a dig to either of the two OS's, the things that you do use for each are just different. I personally love using Adobe CS5/6 MC, FinalCut, FinalDraft, Scrivener, LogicStudio, iTunes, etc as well as others on OSX. Moreover I personally love using Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Project, Visio, (Outlook however has a few things I don't like too much :/ but you can't always have your cake and eat it too!) AutoCAD, Revit, 3ds Max, ProTools, etc as well as others on Windows.
My point is the "Die-Hard Pro Single/Only or The OS" or to say that one is the better than the other is plain silly they were never intended to do exactly the same thing it is like using a flathead screwdriver on a philips head screw or a pipe wrench when you really need a box wrench or a socket set So the "MS Windows / MS Office Suite" is the "Industry Standard" for its purpose... just like "Mac OSX" is the "Industry Standard" for its purpose if I want to create great Résumés, Business Proposals, BID's, RFI, RFP, Spread Sheets-Gantt Charts, Project Control, PP Presentations etc you use MS Office Suite in Windows (not a big fan of MS Office for Mac too stripped down and sluggish), or use AutoCad, Revit, 3ds Max, SolidWorks, RISA, Xactimate they all are drafting/building or drafting/estimating software packages that run best or only on Windows if you want to create great Video/Sound Editing, Script/Novel Writing, Music Editing, Music Storage and Playback, Graphic Arts/Digital Photography and any of the Adobe Creative Suite App's, you would use OSX! But to make one or the other do everything at all times can be challenging at best!
Simply put you really need the... "The Right Tool for the Job" and "Where there is a Will, there is a Way"!
The Apple Magic Mouse works almost like the TrackPad does in the use of gestures, one, two, three finger swipes, pinch zoom, single-double tap, single click, double click, right click, (Yes you can get the Right Click) etc and are set to your liking in the "System Preferences" under the "Mouse Settings" as well as the "TractPad" under "TrackPad Settings" same as you would in Windows Control Panel! The 3rd Party App's like BetterTouchTool, MagicPrefs, and TinkerTool allow more fine adjustment of those settings (I use all three of them) you just need to try them to see what works you you will want to play with them as some of adjustments (gestures, etc ) are better than others and can be assigned to each App same as in Windows!
I personally use an Apple Magic Mouse and a couple of Logitech Mice (or what ever you prefer) they are for different App's AMM is for general use in OSX or Windows as it works mostly like the TrackPad does, the LM are for the App's like Photoshop, Lightroom, AutoCAD, SketchBook Pro, SketchUp, App's that require a more precision or App Specific Optioned curser movement! Just like a Wacom Tablet does for the aforementioned App's it also has lots of settings!
If you are looking for the "Aero Themed" windows or "Start" window or Specific Wallpaper Animation (you can DL a lot of WP's of the OSX Desktop) I have not see any hacks or App's for that! But I have seen hacks to make "Windows Look Like OSX"... if you can articulate what type of customizing you are looking for it might be easier to recommend some ideas for you check-out!
Guess what I am trying to articulate is that if you use each OS for what is designed for you will be two steps ahead of the pack who say one OS is better than the other! Have to say that a lot manufacturers do need to put better engineering into the hardware they are producing some of the best ideas, come the passion for the need of a product to evolve!
"Absorb what's useful, discard the superfluous" Bruce Lee
Macbook Pro 17'' 8,3 (Late 2011) − Intel 2.5 GHz i7-2860QM / 1920x1200 LED / AMD Radeon HD 6770M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 480GB SSD (OS X/Win7U)(Bay1) + 960GB SSD (Master/Storage)(Optical/Bay2) / Mac SuperDrive in an External Enclosure + Pioneer BDR-XD04 BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Multi-Card Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Thunderbolt Displays
Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid 2010) − (2) Intel 2.93 GHz Xeon X5670 / (2) NVIDIA Quatro 4GB GDDR5 / 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 / 960GB PCI Express SSD (OS X/Win 7U 64bit) + (4) 3TB Enterprise HDD's (Bay1-4) + 300TB External RAID Storage / Mac SuperDrive + Pioneer BDR-206MBK BDXL-RW BD Drive / Wintec 48GB SSD, 64GB SSD, & 128GB SSD ExpressCards / Sonnet Echo ExpressCard Thunderbolt Adaptor / Sonnet & OWC eSATA ExpressCards & Sonnet CF/CFP/SDXC/SD/MMC/XD/Sony SxS Multi-Card Memory Reader-Writer ExpressCards
(3) 27" Cinema Displays
Macbook Pro Retina 15'' 9,1 (Mid 2012) − Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM / 2880x1800 R-LED / NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024MB GDDR5 / 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3L / 768GB Flash Storage (OS X/Win7U)
iPhone 4S 64GB iPhone 4 32GB iPhone 3 16GB (2) iPad 3 64GB (New iPad) iPad 2 64GB
** Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit always runs Best on Mac Hardware **
Agreed, with the other possibility being that they will simply focus on the business market where the iPad is lacking...trust me, I have tried and have given up..
He is asking $1,200 though I may be able to get it for a little less...I am looking for advice as to whether or not I should take the plunge as I know little about Mac pricing, especially used units..
Great to know that others have had a good experience with them...that said, I am NOT too keen on doing upgrades -- at least not at this point -- as I feel that I will have enough to do just to learn and setup the laptop...
Perhaps I need to put all my frequent flyer points to use and fly out to see you for a day or two of training...
The resolution is lacking only when I am working on spreadsheets or the proprietary stochastic modelling application I run...for these I like at least 1400x900 but can make it work at 1200x800...
Not an option...I like / need a clean desktop so no external monitor for me...
I have the receipt...it is an early 2011. February 2011 to be exact...interesting, I do not see Apple Care on the receipt but rather one-to-one which has expired...
He tells me that he uses his iPad when in the field -- he is a saleman -- and wants to cash out on the MBP to get a MacPro...
I have known the seller for years though we live a few 100 miles apart...I would have him take it to his local Apple store, have them run the diagnosis and then send me the machine...
Thanks, very helpful indeed...that said, other than confirming the config I do not what I would do with the information...
Thanks, again, very helpful indeed particularly since he upgraded the RAM as his receipt says 2x2GB...
Agreed, though I am a liitle out of my depth here when it comes to technical specs that you have listed...again, I will need to come and pay you a visit...
Your explanation is clear and very helpful...I have read the Parallels manual and it is possible to i) install Windows on Bootcamp and ii) install Parallesl in OS X and have it access the Boootcamp partition thereby needing only 1 Windows license...
yes, as my Windows machine is extremely customized in terms of its setup...drives the IT guys crazy when they need to get me a new laptop as I ask to get it back as they received it yet they marvel at the efficiency of my setup...
Again, much thanks...
----------
Like everything in life...
Hmmmm, will need to get a list of those apps...
Hmmmm, most of the apps that I use are in your Windows list...the other point of interest is that some say that Macs treat you as though you are a 6 year old and limit what you can do and where you can go in customizing a machine...
Agree...
Good to know...I have a Logitech PerformanceMX mouse and think it is great...
I know the paradigm that I use in Windows but want to be open minded about what paradigm I would us in a Mac world...
I think that the best approach would be to get a Mac and do nothing more than install the OS and learn its ins and outs before settling on a paradigm...I want to know how it drives before deciding how to best to drive it, like my car...
Again, much thanks...
Last edited:
Considering the "Dark Side"... Continued!!!
If you check out the computer as well as the receipt to verify the 8GB (2x4GB) maybe a typo on the 2x2GB…. Also ask where he purchased that SO-DIMM RAM that is installed, and who installed it!
Check to verify the "Apple Care" is indeed active for said period of time as it $349 to purchase and it has to be activated with-in the first year from of the original date of purchase! (No Later) if you look on Craigslist.org, eBay, etc… sites most of the listings show MBP's reselling for about 60% to 80% of the original purchase price, usually closer to the high side! Also check with Apple Care to make sure that is indeed transferable for the rest of the term and put the computer and AC in/under your name!
With the AppleCare, Extra Cases-Covers it does sound like a good deal,… I think I would still try to get the best price possible, and definitely have it checked out by the Apple Genius Bar or ACPC just to make sure both parties are happy!
Hey about that Parallels accessing into Bootcamp info… if that is correct… that is fantastic! That is the first time that I have heard that one… although I have not really asked that exact question before. Well, worth using it that way if it is stable.
There is also Paragon Software Group which is company that makes two SW packages (and others)… 1) HFS+ for Windows,… 2) NTFS for Mac OSX, which will allow you to access all the files on both of system file formats (OSX-HFS+ / Windows-NTFS) they are about $19.99 ea. have not tried yet but looking into it! The biggest problem is the way the system file format/disk format used are doing the read/write by the two different OS's! :/ …. CTO at…
— This link talks a little about that subject: http://blog.paragon-software.com/?p=466
— This the link for HFS+ for Windows: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/
— This the link for NTFS for Mac OSX: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/
Yes, I would really like to see how your system looks and performs… always looking for that next new trick to be more efficient and save time never enough of that stuff! (too little time)
Can definitely give all the App's I use and some i am still going to purchase, and some that really stink!
Not sure of your location but I am in the LA/OC area… let me know… maybe?
If you check out the computer as well as the receipt to verify the 8GB (2x4GB) maybe a typo on the 2x2GB…. Also ask where he purchased that SO-DIMM RAM that is installed, and who installed it!
Check to verify the "Apple Care" is indeed active for said period of time as it $349 to purchase and it has to be activated with-in the first year from of the original date of purchase! (No Later) if you look on Craigslist.org, eBay, etc… sites most of the listings show MBP's reselling for about 60% to 80% of the original purchase price, usually closer to the high side! Also check with Apple Care to make sure that is indeed transferable for the rest of the term and put the computer and AC in/under your name!
With the AppleCare, Extra Cases-Covers it does sound like a good deal,… I think I would still try to get the best price possible, and definitely have it checked out by the Apple Genius Bar or ACPC just to make sure both parties are happy!
Hey about that Parallels accessing into Bootcamp info… if that is correct… that is fantastic! That is the first time that I have heard that one… although I have not really asked that exact question before. Well, worth using it that way if it is stable.
There is also Paragon Software Group which is company that makes two SW packages (and others)… 1) HFS+ for Windows,… 2) NTFS for Mac OSX, which will allow you to access all the files on both of system file formats (OSX-HFS+ / Windows-NTFS) they are about $19.99 ea. have not tried yet but looking into it! The biggest problem is the way the system file format/disk format used are doing the read/write by the two different OS's! :/ …. CTO at…
— This link talks a little about that subject: http://blog.paragon-software.com/?p=466
— This the link for HFS+ for Windows: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/
— This the link for NTFS for Mac OSX: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/
Yes, I would really like to see how your system looks and performs… always looking for that next new trick to be more efficient and save time never enough of that stuff! (too little time)
Can definitely give all the App's I use and some i am still going to purchase, and some that really stink!
Not sure of your location but I am in the LA/OC area… let me know… maybe?
Last edited: