I know how you feel. I had a work-issue MBP 13 and it was nice to use in a pinch (I used it for personal stuff and I used my two personal 15s for work) but it was always nice to grab a 15 for the bigger screen. It's nice to have both. I only have the 15s now. I would really like a 17.3 4k and Apple's never going to make those.
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Considering Windows laptops during Arm transition
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I know how you feel. I had a work-issue MBP 13 and it was nice to use in a pinch (I used it for personal stuff and I used my two personal 15s for work) but it was always nice to grab a 15 for the bigger screen. It's nice to have both. I only have the 15s now. I would really like a 17.3 4k and Apple's never going to make those.
I should mention that I have an iPhone, iPad Pro, and Apple TV, so definitely keeping my toes in the Apple gear. And I'll never say I'll never buy a Mac again, but these days it feels like it's not the best time.
It isn't. And Apple's moves to a more closed hardware environment is a problem. I am seriously hoping that things improve on hardware pricing or flexibility with AS.
LeeW
macrumors 601
To begin with yes, Apple will want to convince people to get in on ARM so the early machines will be priced in the "OMG, is that all for a Macbook?" I say that based on the overall package of the device vs what you get today. Not that they will be 30-50% cheaper than now.
But before you know it the A17X Super Chip will have increased the price to mean you are back on the 'Apple is overpriced' point. At which point, too late, you're so committed and locked into an even more walled garden.
If Apple does with AS, what they've done with iPhones, then I should be fine. I'm using an iPhone 7+ and it takes care of my needs with great performance. They have the iPhone SE, the iPad Mini and lower priced options that don't compromise computing power. I am moving CPU, GPU and Storage intensive applications to Windows and running office, email, web browsing, and media consumption on macOS. So my future macOS usage will be less power-intensive than it has been in the past.
If Apple does provide great performance at a good price, then I would consider moving back. But I don't expect that much from Apple.
ctjack
macrumors 68000
That was not the case for Apple anytime. This gap is certainly bigger as of now, but this gap was there all the time. So the only question was: how good you feel about paying certain price for lower hardware.
This is all related to Macs.
filu_
macrumors regular
Thank you for your response. In my case, I will choose desktop. I don't need a laptop, I prefer a large screen, keyboard and mouse.
For the MBA price, I will build a quite powerful desktop, maybe I will a dualboot or a virtual machine (Linux / Windows). I guess I couldn't get over the money spent on MBP or even MBA 😉 I was curious about your motivation.
For the MBA price, I will build a quite powerful desktop, maybe I will a dualboot or a virtual machine (Linux / Windows). I guess I couldn't get over the money spent on MBP or even MBA 😉 I was curious about your motivation.
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I bought a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 in 2018 for $1,100 and I'm typing on it right now. I expect it to be my main laptop for the foreseeable future. It could very well do the job until 2025. We'll see what AS offers in terms of performance and value.
ctjack
macrumors 68000
Nice setup and purchase timing. Congrats! Hope our gear will last till normal AS.
I am typing this from a Retina 2012 13", bought for $200 in 2016.
If Apple makes AS broadly affordable and it has a significant price/performance advantages and they price it right, then they could get marketshare numbers like the iPhone and iPad.
filu_
macrumors regular
Ah, this mythical Apple Silicone😉
However, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I like my Linux for the fact that it has endless configuration options (by the way - how fun "Show Your Desktop" threads are on the Mac forum😉).
On the other hand, the same is bothering me on my Android phone where chaos reigns in my opinion.
I am looking for the minimum usability in the phone, such as communication, e-mail, car navigation, camera (but for emergencies). I had Nokia E50, Nokia E72, Blackberry Z10.
Now I choose an iPhone from the lower shelf, because it meets these requirements best (although I have many objections to both the phone and Apple).
However, I would be afraid of too far-reaching interference of Apple with my computer or my resources. I also do not need many services for which they optimize their equipment. I don't want Apple Music, I want to freely transfer my music from my CDs that I once bought to my phone.
I'm afraid AS will raise the wall around the garden even higher.
What do you think?
However, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I like my Linux for the fact that it has endless configuration options (by the way - how fun "Show Your Desktop" threads are on the Mac forum😉).
On the other hand, the same is bothering me on my Android phone where chaos reigns in my opinion.
I am looking for the minimum usability in the phone, such as communication, e-mail, car navigation, camera (but for emergencies). I had Nokia E50, Nokia E72, Blackberry Z10.
Now I choose an iPhone from the lower shelf, because it meets these requirements best (although I have many objections to both the phone and Apple).
However, I would be afraid of too far-reaching interference of Apple with my computer or my resources. I also do not need many services for which they optimize their equipment. I don't want Apple Music, I want to freely transfer my music from my CDs that I once bought to my phone.
I'm afraid AS will raise the wall around the garden even higher.
What do you think?
ctjack
macrumors 68000
Apple is heavily targeting subscription and other software, which is basically intangible and have the highest profit margins. Just like xbox and ps are selling lower than they cost, but only because games are $50-$60 - this is where all the money.
Sure thing, when everyone will be on ARM, they will raise the gates by handcuffing to the Apple Store. App store is 30% fee profits for them. So everything will be closed system.
c0ppo
macrumors 68000
Apple has already closed their garden. Try to fix anything in newer MBP for example. Impossible.
But they won't push everything and everyone on Mac App Store. Firstly, apps on that store have limits to what they can and can't do. Secondly, even Apple realises that Mac isn't iPhone, and it never will be.
That's why we can still disable gatekeeper and SIP.
But I really dislike Mac hardware. In the past 4-5 years keyboards on MBP are pure garbage, and yes, even on new MBP 16. Touch bar is a gimmick in search of a problem.
MBP 16 really gets hot when connected to external monitor, and the fans run like crazy. Everytime I have to use MBP for my projects, I really dislike the whole experience.
For example, X1E connected to unsupported LG 5K is warm, silent and behaves normally. On the other hand, MBP 16 fans spin like crazy producing significant noise. MBP also gets really HOT. And LG 5K is made for Macs.
Apple is simply producing one failure after another. I simply have lost all faith in their products.
But they won't push everything and everyone on Mac App Store. Firstly, apps on that store have limits to what they can and can't do. Secondly, even Apple realises that Mac isn't iPhone, and it never will be.
That's why we can still disable gatekeeper and SIP.
But I really dislike Mac hardware. In the past 4-5 years keyboards on MBP are pure garbage, and yes, even on new MBP 16. Touch bar is a gimmick in search of a problem.
MBP 16 really gets hot when connected to external monitor, and the fans run like crazy. Everytime I have to use MBP for my projects, I really dislike the whole experience.
For example, X1E connected to unsupported LG 5K is warm, silent and behaves normally. On the other hand, MBP 16 fans spin like crazy producing significant noise. MBP also gets really HOT. And LG 5K is made for Macs.
Apple is simply producing one failure after another. I simply have lost all faith in their products.
LeeW
macrumors 601
Agreed, although I still use the iPad, Watch and iPhone I have entirely to Windows now.
c0ppo
macrumors 68000
I wanna correct my statement. I was only referencing Macs in general. I never used Apple Watch, I've stopped using iPhone for long time now. Nothing wrong with iPhone, but it's way too locked down for me, and with that lockdown comes a really high price. I do own an iPad, works like a charm. My wife and kids use it, I almost never use it. But no issues with iPad at all.
filu_
macrumors regular
I have an iPhone 8 and an iPad Air and I'm happy with them, although I unnecessarily changed the mini 5 to Air.
However, I am bothered by the almost zero integration with the computer (Linux).
Besides, I am trying to reduce the number of devices. The size of the iP8 suits me, I thought I would replace it with SE2020 next year, but I don't know if I will end up getting rid of iDevices and switching to Android + KDE Connect ....
However, I am bothered by the almost zero integration with the computer (Linux).
Besides, I am trying to reduce the number of devices. The size of the iP8 suits me, I thought I would replace it with SE2020 next year, but I don't know if I will end up getting rid of iDevices and switching to Android + KDE Connect ....
c0ppo
macrumors 68000
I'm using OnePlus + PopOS + GSConnect. Works like a charm. My phone is mounted via Wi-Fi to my laptop, so I can easily transfer files.
I really have no need for a tablet at all. But my family loves using one, and I see no competition to iPad at all. But I don't use it, so my linux doesn't have to work with it 🙂
LeeW
macrumors 601
Indeed, it's Mac that is my issue. Really happy with the iPad, always have been. The watch is a great device (for me) over android alternatives, only getting better (for me) with Fitness+ coming. The iPhone is nothing more than a phone to me, not saying it's bad, just that I am indifferent, if the watch worked with Android I would have a $200 phone for all I use it.
filu_
macrumors regular
In the case of a phone, the operation of several applications is important to me, e.g. banking and the convenience of logging in TouchID.
The iPad mini was more convenient for surfing the net than in the phone. I also happened to edit pictures easily and prepare blog entries.
I tried to become an iPadOnly with Air but it did not work out completely 🙂
I am glad that I did not fall into the iPadPro + keyboard to find out about it 😀
The iPad mini was more convenient for surfing the net than in the phone. I also happened to edit pictures easily and prepare blog entries.
I tried to become an iPadOnly with Air but it did not work out completely 🙂
I am glad that I did not fall into the iPadPro + keyboard to find out about it 😀
I use iTunes for music as I have a few iPhones and iPod Touch models. I use their Podcast App as well as it makes it easy to automatically fetch my subscriptions. It's nice to have a common interface on macOS and Windows too. I use VLC for videos because they make it very easy to run on a NAS.
I am building a Windows PC, i7-10700, Cougar Max Panzer case, GTX 1050 Ti, and the design is to use minimal power and to keep the system running cool for my applications that require CPU, Network and Storage. My office and casual stuff will be done on macOS. I've used Linux for the past 20 years for work and Unix going back to the 1980s. I worked on Firefox a long time ago and I recall the frustration of Linux proponents about why there was widespread adoption of Firefox but not of Linux on the desktop. Also, why the broad financial success of Firefox? Then you had the broad financial success of Apple and macOS.
Apple and Microsoft make the upgrade and maintenance easier than Linux. My company was large enough to have a Linux support staff and they took care of all of the system maintenance and other tasks so that we could just do our jobs. In smaller companies, you don't have the budget for bigger support staffs so you try to go with something that doesn't cost a lot and there are just a lot of Microsoft IT people out there - they seem to do a good job at providing a training framework and infrastructure.
I'm not sure how macOS IT people get trained and it seems to me that there aren't as many out there but you have fanatics that help out other Mac users. At my former place, when someone came to the IT person for Mac help, he often sent them to me (he did this for many Windows problems as well). I knew all of the Mac people in our building and we helped each other out because the company didn't really provide official support. We eventually adopted macOS as one of our three main desktop platforms and we brought in a few macOS people to help officially. This is the same case with Linux: we had people that used Linux on the desktop but there was no official support. I think that that is still the situation - you can ask and hope for the kindness of strangers.
At the end of the day, you want to get your stuff done with the lowest total cost of ownership and the fewest headaches and the world has gravitated to 1) Windows, 2) macOS and 3) Linux on the desktop. Could AS change that? Sure. If it is really that good. Could that happen? I don't know. Apple seems to have serious CPU design chops these days and they can certainly just buy talent that they need.
Just remember that they did it from scratch with iOS and built an entire category with massive profits.
I will continue to use multiple ecosystems though.
For fitness, I use a Garmin Watch. They are expensive, are not well-known, technically quirky but they are the biggest in the fitness fanatic space. There are others like Polar and Suunto and a number of Chinese offerings that seem to be about cloning Garmin, Suunto and Polar features but they haven't caught my interest yet.
There's Apple certification training courses: https://training.apple.com/us/en/courses
I object to those of us who have helped others in the workplace with a Mac or iOS technical issue being called "fanatics." Isn't that just what co-workers do for each other?
I object to those of us who have helped others in the workplace with a Mac or iOS technical issue being called "fanatics." Isn't that just what co-workers do for each other?
filu_
macrumors regular
Thanks, nice explanation. I don't know if I am stuck in Linux just by habit 🙂
Unfortunately, I would rather not choose a Mac - it is too expensive and too strange for me. It seems too restrictive to me. I don't understand how the Photos or Music app works. Ok, sometimes Memories made from photos via iPhone are cool, but I don't want this feature on the desktop.
If I bought a Mac, I would pay for something I don't need.
I've seen the monster you're building 😉 and I like it. I will build my own computer, with dual boot (or maybe only for Windows).
It's from a practical point of view. From the philosophical point of view - I don't need a tablet. I also have several pairs of headphones for the 3.5 jack; i have 2 nano iPods - they're really great and don't need iTunes.
We talked about watches in another thread 🙂 For the rest, I will only write that I do not need AW (I minimize the number of notifications, I do not have Facebook, Instagram, etc.).
Therefore, I guess I'm not a typical Apple customer and I don't need an ecosystem, especially since these are only private devices they will not earn for themselves.
But I am curious about the motivations of others who abandon Apple devices.
Greetings 🙂
Unfortunately, I would rather not choose a Mac - it is too expensive and too strange for me. It seems too restrictive to me. I don't understand how the Photos or Music app works. Ok, sometimes Memories made from photos via iPhone are cool, but I don't want this feature on the desktop.
If I bought a Mac, I would pay for something I don't need.
I've seen the monster you're building 😉 and I like it. I will build my own computer, with dual boot (or maybe only for Windows).
It's from a practical point of view. From the philosophical point of view - I don't need a tablet. I also have several pairs of headphones for the 3.5 jack; i have 2 nano iPods - they're really great and don't need iTunes.
We talked about watches in another thread 🙂 For the rest, I will only write that I do not need AW (I minimize the number of notifications, I do not have Facebook, Instagram, etc.).
Therefore, I guess I'm not a typical Apple customer and I don't need an ecosystem, especially since these are only private devices they will not earn for themselves.
But I am curious about the motivations of others who abandon Apple devices.
Greetings 🙂
Not in my experience. I find tech support is mostly one-way.
Our IT organization in the past was one where you could just walk into their office with your problem or question. Over time, they moved to a service business model and made it so painful to ask for tech support that the average employee far preferred to ask someone that they knew rather than filing a ticket. Once they figured out who could fix their systems or answer questions, they just went to that person. The IT manager declared success because they decreased IT support costs by so much. And, of course, satisfaction with IT was poor. But management didn't care because costs were reduced.
I used to be more Apple and am now less. macOS is a big problem. I think that Apple has pushed a lot of people out. The outside world has gotten better too.
kazmac
macrumors G4
I hope you enjoy it. Wouldn’t mind hearing more of your experiences with it.
Been so tempted by this Zephyrus, but I‘ve heard it runs super hot. I wouldn’t be gaming, but video and design stuff, yes. I know they have an Eclipse Gray model with a Ryzen 7 and 1660Ti card that is $300 cheaper than your Moonlight White model. Wondering if I should have a Windows laptop here for several reasons, the job being the least of it (They tried to force me into buying a PC, but my Mac works so much better). There’s a lot of uncertainty about AS Macs. Also, having an Apple tech confirm it’s better to have two Macs with usb-c thunderbolt available & Apple configurator 2 software in case of system failures (OS updates, etc.) so you can reboot the T2 chip in the failed Mac is, frankly, messed up.
As someone who uses the iPad for art and consumption, I’ll always have at least one iPad around, along with an iPhone.
That tech confirmation and documentation about the T2 chip has me unsure of what to do (Of course if I were to buy twos, the back up would be an MBA (On sale of course).
I keep going back and forth on this, but am no longer upset about it.