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Convince me to get a PowerBook
- Thread starter gingi0
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djbahdow01
macrumors 6502a
gingi0 said:
You forgot A few minor things on the Dell, its not too important but PB's come with bluetooth built in, and on the Dell there was no wireless card. Only integrated 10/100 ethernet. Also with the P4 it will suck the battery life up quick. One thing Intel did well was the Pentium M chips, but even then it still runs WinXP. I am so glad i moved over to the Mac, I hardly use my Dell Inspiron 8000 any more.
Also just did a price comparison of the Apple 15in with 1.5GHz and 1GB Ram vs the Dell 600m 14.1in with 2.0 M and 1 GB, Apple $2899 vs Dell $3094, on sale for $2630. That would probably be the best comparison for the Apple and Dell.
You seem to need no convincing! I hope everything goes down well with the wife 🙂
I thought you might like some insights from someone else who has owned a Dell Inspiron and also moved to a 15"PB:
My Inspiron started to 'fall to bits' too. Really. The build quality on those things is pretty poor. It hasn't improved with the newer ones (2 people at work have similar ones to the Dell you're comparing with - they lust after my PB).
The Inspiron (8000 series) I had was loud. The new ones are worse. The one you're looking at, with the desktop processor in it, will be as bad as a desktop (possibly worse as the fan is smaller and running faster!). The PB fan rarely turns on. Even then it's pretty quiet. No big deal you might say, but if you're like me and use your laptop in bed your wife will certainly notice the difference. Also something that's making a huge difference in my life is the PB's backlit keyboard. I really thought it was a gimmick, but it is really great to work while sitting in bed and my girlfriend is watching TV.
The PB is pretty damn tough. I have stood on mine (accidentally - it was open on the floor, I put my heel down over the DVD drive). Gave me the shock of my life, but it has no damage what-so-ever.
Sleep mode on Mac's works like a dream. I use photoshop/etc all the time. I can just close the PB's lid when I want and then open it back up the next day - everything is there ready to go again immediately.
I'm not much of a Linux/Unix geek, but I've been getting into it. The best thing about OSX in this regard is that you've got a full shell integrated with a GUI. You can copy and paste to and from the shell to the GUI. Postfix/Apache/vim/emacs/etc all come with the system. Fink allows you to grab any other package you might want. A great thing about the BSD base is also the amount of scientific software available - you don't say what kind of scientist your wife is, but maybe she should have a browse on Apple's web-site under the software section. And if you do any kind of coding then the killer Mac app is BBEdit - it just can't be beat.
Also - part of that extra expense for the Mac is for the iLife programs that come with it - and they are actually pretty good. Also the PowerBooks come with quite a bit of other software aimed at 'artists' but can be quite useful if you're making GUI's for your Java stuff. Hmm, I also forgot about XCode and the other developer kit - which might interest you.
When you see a Powerbook, it's pretty obvious that some of the extra expense is due to much better engineering/design. So in a lot of ways it is quite difficult to compare an Apple to a Dell. Things like the case - full anodised aluminium. Like the bezel (tiny! - the one around the new Inspiron's is huge). The size (the PB is 1" thick - the Inspiron feels like a brick in comparison). The slot loading DVD drive. The *really* bright screen. The beautiful feeling and well laid out keyboard. DVI and FW800, and proper powered FW400 ports. The really small powerbrick with built-in cable arms, and both a wall socket and a cord! If you compare a Powerbook to an IBM Thinkpad - which is much higher quality than the Dell Inspiron - the Apple prices don't look so bad after all.
I haven't even begun to mention the benefits of OSX - but really, like others here have said, the best thing to do is just go down to an Apple store and touch one. I swear they lace the keyboards with coke or something 😉
I thought you might like some insights from someone else who has owned a Dell Inspiron and also moved to a 15"PB:
My Inspiron started to 'fall to bits' too. Really. The build quality on those things is pretty poor. It hasn't improved with the newer ones (2 people at work have similar ones to the Dell you're comparing with - they lust after my PB).
The Inspiron (8000 series) I had was loud. The new ones are worse. The one you're looking at, with the desktop processor in it, will be as bad as a desktop (possibly worse as the fan is smaller and running faster!). The PB fan rarely turns on. Even then it's pretty quiet. No big deal you might say, but if you're like me and use your laptop in bed your wife will certainly notice the difference. Also something that's making a huge difference in my life is the PB's backlit keyboard. I really thought it was a gimmick, but it is really great to work while sitting in bed and my girlfriend is watching TV.
The PB is pretty damn tough. I have stood on mine (accidentally - it was open on the floor, I put my heel down over the DVD drive). Gave me the shock of my life, but it has no damage what-so-ever.
Sleep mode on Mac's works like a dream. I use photoshop/etc all the time. I can just close the PB's lid when I want and then open it back up the next day - everything is there ready to go again immediately.
I'm not much of a Linux/Unix geek, but I've been getting into it. The best thing about OSX in this regard is that you've got a full shell integrated with a GUI. You can copy and paste to and from the shell to the GUI. Postfix/Apache/vim/emacs/etc all come with the system. Fink allows you to grab any other package you might want. A great thing about the BSD base is also the amount of scientific software available - you don't say what kind of scientist your wife is, but maybe she should have a browse on Apple's web-site under the software section. And if you do any kind of coding then the killer Mac app is BBEdit - it just can't be beat.
Also - part of that extra expense for the Mac is for the iLife programs that come with it - and they are actually pretty good. Also the PowerBooks come with quite a bit of other software aimed at 'artists' but can be quite useful if you're making GUI's for your Java stuff. Hmm, I also forgot about XCode and the other developer kit - which might interest you.
When you see a Powerbook, it's pretty obvious that some of the extra expense is due to much better engineering/design. So in a lot of ways it is quite difficult to compare an Apple to a Dell. Things like the case - full anodised aluminium. Like the bezel (tiny! - the one around the new Inspiron's is huge). The size (the PB is 1" thick - the Inspiron feels like a brick in comparison). The slot loading DVD drive. The *really* bright screen. The beautiful feeling and well laid out keyboard. DVI and FW800, and proper powered FW400 ports. The really small powerbrick with built-in cable arms, and both a wall socket and a cord! If you compare a Powerbook to an IBM Thinkpad - which is much higher quality than the Dell Inspiron - the Apple prices don't look so bad after all.
I haven't even begun to mention the benefits of OSX - but really, like others here have said, the best thing to do is just go down to an Apple store and touch one. I swear they lace the keyboards with coke or something 😉
Another Thought
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I had another idea too. You *could* get a new iMac *and* an iBook for close to the the price of a powerbook. With airport you could use the iBook to ssh into the iMac and offload processor heavy work for compilation etc. Some things could even be automated with a bit of Apple Script magic (kind of like REXX, but much cooler).
Errr - just thought though...Java no need compiling. Whoops. Oh well. Anyway, does anybody out there do anything like this?
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I had another idea too. You *could* get a new iMac *and* an iBook for close to the the price of a powerbook. With airport you could use the iBook to ssh into the iMac and offload processor heavy work for compilation etc. Some things could even be automated with a bit of Apple Script magic (kind of like REXX, but much cooler).
Errr - just thought though...Java no need compiling. Whoops. Oh well. Anyway, does anybody out there do anything like this?
Keep in mind that it's not just the battery life that's the problem with desktop processors in laptops . . . it's the HEAT. Putting a desktop processor in a laptop effectively makes it a desktop, since it'll burn you if you put it on your lap. I'm surprised Dell hasn't had any of MacDonalds' troubles in that regard 😉 Also, if you really get down to it, it's not even so much the discomfort as the longevity and dependability. I've had almost every single Dell with a desktop processor I've ever seen down at ResNet go back to Dell because it was overheating and shutting off. Celeron, Pentium . . . doesn't matter. Desktop chips are called that for a reason.
Note that this is not just with Dells . . . Compaq, HP, Toshiba, Sony. They all do it, and they're all just as bad. If you HAVE to get a PC laptop, get a mobile processor or a Pentium M. The Mobile Athlons (not the 64) have a TDP of 35W, which is a lot more than the Pentium M and G4, but I think it's less than a mobile P4 . . . I could be wrong, though . . . The overclock like stink, though 😀 (see sig and add 300MHz for the top end . . .)
The only thing I can say about buying a laptop at the end of the day, though, is just to make sure you need what you're buying. I regret the amount I paid for my PowerBook. I love it, but I want the money back. Had they been making the G4 iBook at the time, I'd have gotten that. But if you're looking at similarly priced PC laptops, there's not much of an issue . . . But for me, as a college student, I figured I needed a laptop. I think I'd have been much better served with a good desktop and a cheap Pismo or something.
Z
Note that this is not just with Dells . . . Compaq, HP, Toshiba, Sony. They all do it, and they're all just as bad. If you HAVE to get a PC laptop, get a mobile processor or a Pentium M. The Mobile Athlons (not the 64) have a TDP of 35W, which is a lot more than the Pentium M and G4, but I think it's less than a mobile P4 . . . I could be wrong, though . . . The overclock like stink, though 😀 (see sig and add 300MHz for the top end . . .)
The only thing I can say about buying a laptop at the end of the day, though, is just to make sure you need what you're buying. I regret the amount I paid for my PowerBook. I love it, but I want the money back. Had they been making the G4 iBook at the time, I'd have gotten that. But if you're looking at similarly priced PC laptops, there's not much of an issue . . . But for me, as a college student, I figured I needed a laptop. I think I'd have been much better served with a good desktop and a cheap Pismo or something.
Z
512ke
macrumors 6502a
These are all great arguments in favor of the PB. However, if I were you, I would throw logic to the wind here. A direct emotional appeal is best. It might be something like... honey, I know it costs $1000 more, and even if it doesn't make sense (which it does) it's just something I really badly want. It may be irrational but it's going to make me very happy. That direct/honest approach has worked for me. And I take the same approach when my wife really wants something that costs a lot more than the "value" version. Of course, then you guys have to pay for it... BUT in my experience it hurts less to pay for a PB you really wanted than a less-expensive-but-still-expensive item that you did not totally want. 🙂
Like I said earlier, the more responses I'm getting in this forum, the more I'm determined to get the PowerBook.
Many of the multimedia and software features for the PowerBook are essentially an afterthought. Computer buyers tend to think, "By spending more money to get this nifty feature (e.g. a SuperDrive with the Final Cut software) which I really don't need right now, I force myself to learn it and make it useful." I don't know how many of the features that come with the PowerBook I'll actually use (I might use BlueTooth if I were stranded in the desert with my PowerBook and a cell phone). However, that is not really up for discussion. You can't get a barebones PowerBook.
What is convincing me to go with the PowerBook is the fundamental difference that I'm observing between the philosophy of Apple, Inc. and that of other PC manufacturers toward building a solid, quality laptop. After all, by purchasing from a manufacturer, you're essentially entering a long-term relationship with that company, and you want to know that they value customer satisfaction.
For example, I haven't really considered the notion of resell value until someone mentioned it in this forum. I can't imagine that I'd be able to sell my dilapidated Dell laptop. With all the breaking plastic, it's less mobile than a desktop. If anything, I might just have to pay someone to get it off my hands. Interestingly, a Dell store rep told me recently that Dell continues to use cheap plastic with the new Inspirons, and I can expect to need a new one in three years. But if I would be able to sell my PowerBook down the road for, say, $500, then I can discount that amount during the purchase (I guess I have to take inflation into account too).
Many of the multimedia and software features for the PowerBook are essentially an afterthought. Computer buyers tend to think, "By spending more money to get this nifty feature (e.g. a SuperDrive with the Final Cut software) which I really don't need right now, I force myself to learn it and make it useful." I don't know how many of the features that come with the PowerBook I'll actually use (I might use BlueTooth if I were stranded in the desert with my PowerBook and a cell phone). However, that is not really up for discussion. You can't get a barebones PowerBook.
What is convincing me to go with the PowerBook is the fundamental difference that I'm observing between the philosophy of Apple, Inc. and that of other PC manufacturers toward building a solid, quality laptop. After all, by purchasing from a manufacturer, you're essentially entering a long-term relationship with that company, and you want to know that they value customer satisfaction.
For example, I haven't really considered the notion of resell value until someone mentioned it in this forum. I can't imagine that I'd be able to sell my dilapidated Dell laptop. With all the breaking plastic, it's less mobile than a desktop. If anything, I might just have to pay someone to get it off my hands. Interestingly, a Dell store rep told me recently that Dell continues to use cheap plastic with the new Inspirons, and I can expect to need a new one in three years. But if I would be able to sell my PowerBook down the road for, say, $500, then I can discount that amount during the purchase (I guess I have to take inflation into account too).
Manzana
macrumors 6502a
gingi0 said:
Yeah, this is what I used to think, and I "settled for the 1.33 15" PB, adn I found out that I didn't miss the Superdrive, backlit kb, larger hd, etc. This was 2000 retail and later I added cheap ram and external hd.
The way you did your comparison to the *ell, you're talking 'bout a loaded 15"
* PowerBook 1.5GHz (15.2" TFT)
* 1.5GHz PowerPC G4 with 64MB Graphics Memory
* 80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
* SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
* Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
* 1GB DDR333 SDRAM - 2x512 SO-DIMMs
* AirPort Extreme Card
I think the "low" end PB kicks that *ell in the pants!