Copyright infringement debate

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by matruski, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. matruski macrumors newbie

    May 20, 2007
    Hello all,

    I'm using Clearplay to watch DVDs and am trying to use a DVD recorder to record what I am watching. These are movies that I own, but want edited versions of. For this reason, I can't just simply use Mac the Ripper or something to copy the movie and then burn it disc.

    However, when I am trying to record from the player, I get an error saying it can't record this material. Obviously this is due to some copyright protection put on the DVD, but does anyone know a way around this? The input jacks are RCA, so I can't change that part of it. Is there some kind of box that I can put between the player and recorder that wil remove the copyright info? I've even tried starting the movie with the cables unplugged and then plugging them in to hopefully avoid having the recorder get the message, but needless to say, that didn't work.

  2. MisterMe macrumors G4


    Jul 17, 2002
    Um-m-m-m, no. You own the right to view recordings of the movies on DVD. You do not own the movies themselves. You most certainly do not own the right to distribute edited copies of the movies. This is movie piracy and cannot be discussed here.
  3. matruski thread starter macrumors newbie

    May 20, 2007
    Are you joking?

    Please tell me your not serious and that people can't have other intentions for editing movies than to distribute them. Did I say anything about distributing? Please don't inject your pathetic and cynical understanding of human nature into what can be a useful, beneficial discussion about a practice which will ultimately benefit studios and owners of the distribution rights since, thanks to products like Clearplay, their potential audience has been broadened. When you have a twelve year old and want to watch a movie but can't because it's filled with superfluous violence, foul language, and nudity, then maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from if you don't already.

    But, as long as we're discussing what I can only assume to be what you would refer to as "copyright violations" or something of that ilk, how is what I'm referring to different than anyone pausing, muting, skipping or otherwise "modifying" a movie from its intended viewing experience? It seems a little duplicitous to me.

    Feel free to respond to either my initial or follow up question. And by the way, I believe the moderator would be the one to determine if my post is inappropriate. Thanks.
  4. matruski thread starter macrumors newbie

    May 20, 2007

    Perhaps this is what you should have brought up, MisterMe:

    106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works
    Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

    (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords

    Here's the link, it's in Chapter 1:

    This is from the Millenium act. So does this imply that copying and burning cds or mixes is illegal? And if that is the case, how does Apple get around it with iTunes? Has the owner of the copyright given Apple permission to give permission?
  5. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000


    Jul 1, 2004
    Yes, that's why there is a 10-burn limit on all DRM'd songs purchased from iTunes. That is a limitation set by the record co's.

    And it IS different than "pausing, muting, skipping or otherwise 'modifying' a movie" because you are duplicating the movie.
  6. Lebowski macrumors 6502

    Oct 10, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    if a movie has too much violence, profanity, nudity... whatever for a child, THEN MAYBE THAT CHILD, OR SHOULD I SAY THEIR PARENTS NOT ALLOW THEM TO WATCH IT REGARDLESS. these editing houses that "clean up" movies make me sick. Please. Go rent Veggie Tales if real movies are too much for your delicate eyes.
  7. aloofman macrumors 68020


    Dec 17, 2002
    Thanks to congressional intervention, you can indeed use Clearplay for playback, but NOT for recording and keeping your own edited version of a work whose copyright you don't own and haven't received permission to modify. As mentioned by someone else above, buying the DVD doesn't give you permission to do whatever you want with the movie, regardless of how inappropriate you as a parent might find that. And if the moderators deem this subject to be forbidden, then I support them.

    However, that doesn't mean that, for example, editing a DVD that you DO own the copyright to can't be modified. You can, in fact, rip that DVD to your hard drive, convert it to, say, a DV stream using another piece of software, then burn that to DVD again. IF you own the copyright or have permission to modify it, then it can be done. There would be a two-generation loss in quality, but you could do it.
  8. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Suggested reading should also include Audio Home Recording Act and the 'Betamax case.'
    Circumventing, disabling, and/or tampering w/copyright protection hardware/software is a violation of the piece-of-sh*t DMCA so, yes, technically what you are asking us to do is help you break the law. Discussing the validity of the law and/or the odds of getting caught and prosecuted is a different matter entirely.

  9. matruski thread starter macrumors newbie

    May 20, 2007
    Thanks for the responses

    I don't want to do anything illegal, and I don't want to discuss the odds of getting caught. I guess I'd like to just focus on the legality of copying DVDs for personal use for the time being. I can see your points about duplication and how that is fundamentally different than pausing, skipping, etc. That's a good distinction BigBossBomb. But if I'm understanding LethalWolfe's references correctly, the Betamax case and AHRA seem to support the individual's ability to make a copy of copyrighted material, if it is for personal use. Is that right? If so, than does that not extend to DVDs? What about CDs that I buy from Best Buy? Am I allowed to make copies of those? Can it seriously be illegal to use those songs on a mix CD or rip them to my computer? I guess the point that I'm driving at is that there seems to be some very two faced activity going on between record companies and film studios. If I understand posts here and elsewhere correctly, I can make copies of movies using my Betamax (or VHS), I can make mix tapes and digital copies of music by importing them in to iTunes, but can't make a copy of a DVD I bought? Doesn't that strike anyone else as extremely odd, and that it wouldn't stand up in court based on the simple fact that precedents established by other industries and by mediums within the film industry itself contradict the argument that an individual can't make a copy for personal use?

    Regarding Lebowski's comment... First, let me congratulate you on a fantastically original name. I think I'll change my name to "Country for Old Men." Also, thanks for a fantastically immature response to my post. If you decide to respond, please try to contribute rather than insult me by suggesting I have delicate eyes or lecturing me on what movies I should or shouldn't show my kids. Maybe you and MisterMe should start a thread called "Substance and relevance not allowed".
  10. CanadaRAM macrumors G5


    Oct 11, 2004
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    You can't make copies of DVDs because the US Govt has permitted the copyright owners to install copy protection, (and force DVD hardware manufacturers to include chips to prevent) and then has made circumvention of that copy protection illegal (DMCA) .

    Your quote
    is accurate. The fundamental point of copyright law is that it is not legal to make duplicate copies of any copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright owner. You can watch or listen to the original, but you can't make copies. Copyright is the Right of the owner of the material to control under what terms their work can be Copied.

    Then there are modifications to that which tend to support the making of copies for personal use only, and the conversion to other devices for playback (and certain limited cases like education, news reporting, etc.). Technology as usual has outpaced law making.

    The cracking of DVD's encryption however is covered by a different law about breaking of encryption, so effectively it prevents digital copies.

    You;ve been a member for a while, you should know
    Whether your motives are pure (and how would we know anyway?) asking and answering how to break copyright is not permitted on MR -- because it would give instructions to the public who can't be relied on to use it honorably, and puts MR and its owners at risk.

    I'm sorry if you don't like the answer, however I suggest not biting the heads off people who point this out to you -- especially as the original post was vague on the intent, but specific on the desire to break copyright.
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    The courts have so far ruled in favor of the DMCA and against the precedent set the Betamax case and the AHRA only pertains to audio recording devices, AFAIK.

    CDs have no copy protection to circumvent so ripping them doesn't violate the DMCA.

    Yes, the whole thing is a convoluted mess that stems from good intentions but quickly spirals down into a confusing hell.

    That won't work unless you have an extremely old VCR that doesn't recognize Macrovision and all consumer (and some prosumer) devices such as capture cards/converter boxes do recognize Macrovision and will not allow the video signal to be captured, AFAIK.

  12. matruski thread starter macrumors newbie

    May 20, 2007

    Sounds like I'll just need to develop picture perfect memory for my kids and I. Sounds like the only solution.

    Thanks everyone.
  13. NSNick macrumors regular

    Jun 27, 2008
    Washington D.C.
    Video rental stores in Utah were successfully sued for editing out foul scenes even though they held the rights to view and rent the dvds.
  14. Scarlet Fever macrumors 68040

    Scarlet Fever

    Jul 22, 2005
    Whats wrong with just keeping the discs and a DVD player? Why do you need to edit them?
  15. NeoMayhem macrumors 6502a

    Aug 22, 2003
    You have two options to do this:

    1. Make a copy of the disk with mac the ripper or something, and then use clearplay to feed the unprotected copy into your dvd recorder. MTR will remove the macrovision protection from the video, this will let you make copies with standalone dvd recorders.

    2. Get a macrovision descrambler and put it between clearplay and your recorder. This will also let you make all of the copies you want.
  16. l2pdrums macrumors newbie

    Sep 25, 2007

    DVD2One is a great product.

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