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Core Image Compatabilty
- Thread starter TheWitePony
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I think you can test if you're GPU can handle CoreImage (as it is in the 8A162 build), by adding a Gadget in Dashboard:
If the water-ripple effect takes place, it is compatible. If not, well.. it doesn't.
Me thinks.
If the water-ripple effect takes place, it is compatible. If not, well.. it doesn't.
Me thinks.
MacsRgr8 said:
Not necessarily true. I said it before but no one reads apparently. Core Image can use the CPU as a fallback if you have an incompatble video card. I don't know if the dashboard effect or whatever will take place if your GPU is unsuported, but core image things can work without a fall back.
Please note: My PowerBook has a supported video card, but its BARELY supported, and the effects still work like crap.
Chaszmyr said:
It is a simple test if the GPU as Apple has stated is supported.
I have read the fact that the CPU can be used as fallback, but letting the CPU handle effects like the "ripple effect" will slow-down the general user experience.
So only supported grfx cards get the "ripple effetcs" to work.
Like I said, it is merely a test to see if your GPU is CoreImage supported.
Not that I would necessarily do this, obviously I'd wait till I got Tiger and see how it is, but if I found that CoreImage was slow (I have a 1 GHz iMac with a GeForce 4 MX with 64 MB of DDR RAM), is there any way to upgrade the video card in an iMac? Assuming it's not too expensive, can a user access that part of the machine at all, or is it too un-upgradable for that? Just curious.
As far as I'm aware (being an iMac owner myself), all the iMacs have the video card soldered to the motherboard - i.e. not in a slot, and therefore not replacable/upgradable.FredAkbar said:
Core dumps
So basically, everyone with a pre-G5 machine gets ripped, UNLESS..
- You buy a fast CPU upgrade
- You buy a hulkamaniac card for your AGP G4 (and the only choice you have is the 9800 Mac Edition, the card that wants to be hooked directly to your power supply because it sucks soooo much power)
- You give the entire Mac world the finger and switch to Windoze where graphics cards and CPU upgrades sell for the price of expensive hamburgers and you can get Oxygen / workstation cards that make even the Radeon / nVidias on the Mac look like Lite Brite kits in comparison
Also, what good do you think Core Image will do for the nearly godly triumvrate of PhotoShop / Illustrator / Quark? Jack **** unless PhotoShop CS gets one major SDK upgrade, or Apple decides to make an iPhotoShop of their own.. (iPaint?!)
So basically, everyone with a pre-G5 machine gets ripped, UNLESS..
- You buy a fast CPU upgrade
- You buy a hulkamaniac card for your AGP G4 (and the only choice you have is the 9800 Mac Edition, the card that wants to be hooked directly to your power supply because it sucks soooo much power)
- You give the entire Mac world the finger and switch to Windoze where graphics cards and CPU upgrades sell for the price of expensive hamburgers and you can get Oxygen / workstation cards that make even the Radeon / nVidias on the Mac look like Lite Brite kits in comparison
Also, what good do you think Core Image will do for the nearly godly triumvrate of PhotoShop / Illustrator / Quark? Jack **** unless PhotoShop CS gets one major SDK upgrade, or Apple decides to make an iPhotoShop of their own.. (iPaint?!)
Ok, just tried out Tiger on my powerbook. No pretty ripple effect at all in Dashboard. I have the last revision of the Titanium, 1 Ghz, 64 MB vid card (ATI 9000 Mobility I believe).
Well, I don't see myself using Dashboard that much anyways which really isn't a loss as I see it. Plus there are other nice things about Tiger that make it worth while, being noticeably faster being one of them. Tiger will mature nicely I believe by the time its ready for release and I will defiantly be picking up a copy even though I won't get the snazzy Core Image Effects.
Well, I don't see myself using Dashboard that much anyways which really isn't a loss as I see it. Plus there are other nice things about Tiger that make it worth while, being noticeably faster being one of them. Tiger will mature nicely I believe by the time its ready for release and I will defiantly be picking up a copy even though I won't get the snazzy Core Image Effects.
will Core Image work with Radeon 9200 that's in the G4 iBooks?
so what are we missing without core image? no pretty ripple effect and 'maybe' a much faster system later on?
so what are we missing without core image? no pretty ripple effect and 'maybe' a much faster system later on?
Yes, that is what you would miss out on, because I'm confident that Apple will improve Core Image/Video, both in updates to 10.4 and in 10.5 and later.Ryan1524 said:
I'm just using the Tiger release as an excuse to buy a new PowerBook. When is Tiger being released anyway?
lasuther
lasuther
Chaszmyr said:
It's annoying isn't it?! All it takes is a read through of the thread, and not only are the majority of questions answered but you learn something new aswell.
Can I remind everyone you're judging performance on a first beta (maybe considered alpha) of Tiger. Yes that's what you're doing.
AppleMatt
All we know at this point is that it will come in the first half of 2005, whenever Apple's ready to release itlasuther said:
compatibility issue
just testing tiger on my new 15'' powerbook G4 1.5 atimobilityradeon 9700 and coreimage doesn't work for me...
no effects at all..
does anyone has a suggestion/explanation??
thanks
just testing tiger on my new 15'' powerbook G4 1.5 atimobilityradeon 9700 and coreimage doesn't work for me...
no effects at all..
does anyone has a suggestion/explanation??
thanks
Radeon 9700 was listed as supported hardware for Tiger. i ahve the same Powerbok, and would like to know too.
only suggestion i have is that it is still in beta form and that apple dev might still be working in the kinks to get it to activate when it senses your card.nounoursbleu said:
I have the current top of the line 15 inch PB (the one on the apple store now...just bought it).
Will the cool core image effects be fully supported by my PB's radeon 9700? Its not on the lower end of the list, so I would figure that it would work fine.
anyway, just wondering... peace
Will the cool core image effects be fully supported by my PB's radeon 9700? Its not on the lower end of the list, so I would figure that it would work fine.
anyway, just wondering... peace
The way it sounds from the "officially compatible" video cards list, is that CoreImage and CoreVideo will make use of the features of "DirectX 9" compatible cards (as they're known in the WinWorld). "DirectX 8" cards like the Radeon 9000/9200, 8500 and GeForce4Ti simply don't have all the features that CoreImage and CoreVideo will use to work their magic. If Tiger allows the CPU to act as a fallback when one of these older generation video cards is present, then that's a good thing -- at least it will work on such systems, it just might make everything else a bit sluggish.
What I wonder is, for those of us with a dual G4 PowerMac and a Radeon 9000, how will CoreImage/CoreVideo likely affect our overall system performance when Tiger realizes we a) don't have a "compatible" video card and b) we do have two CPUs it can use.
And yes I fully understand we're talking about an early developer build of Tiger at this point. It's something I'll be very interested to know, though, as the Time Of Tiger approaches. $350 is kind of steep for a video card upgrade (Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition) and I'm not planning to sell my new $2000 G4 PowerMac to buy a $2200 G5.
What I wonder is, for those of us with a dual G4 PowerMac and a Radeon 9000, how will CoreImage/CoreVideo likely affect our overall system performance when Tiger realizes we a) don't have a "compatible" video card and b) we do have two CPUs it can use.
And yes I fully understand we're talking about an early developer build of Tiger at this point. It's something I'll be very interested to know, though, as the Time Of Tiger approaches. $350 is kind of steep for a video card upgrade (Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition) and I'm not planning to sell my new $2000 G4 PowerMac to buy a $2200 G5.
Core Image/Video is fully supported on even the 5200fx from Nvidia. The only reason for you purchasing a $300+ card would be if you wanted to run Motion Apple's new Motion Graphics app or if you wanted to run the latest games. If your card doesn't support Core Image/Video then it will gracefully fall back using the CPU. No worries
hmm does this mean my rev a 2x1.8GHz G5 with the GeForce FX 5200 won't be able to take advantage of this? ..I mean, it doesn't have the "GO" on the name now does it
i sure am gonna be pissed if my less than two years old (when Tiger comes out) high end (?) machine doesn't run this technology. can anyone give me a straight answer to this?
EDIT: OOOPS! Didn't check the page 2 before posting (don't kick my ass, i'm having fever).. well, my question got the answer pretty fast I guess.
i sure am gonna be pissed if my less than two years old (when Tiger comes out) high end (?) machine doesn't run this technology. can anyone give me a straight answer to this?
EDIT: OOOPS! Didn't check the page 2 before posting (don't kick my ass, i'm having fever).. well, my question got the answer pretty fast I guess.
Hi.
You all say that in order to use Core Image, that we`d need a video card capabile of rendering with pixel/vertex shading effects.
And that the G4 iBooks wernt compatible.
News flash everyone, the 9200s used in the G4 iBooks are basically Radeon 8500s that are clocked slower and have 1 of their normal 2 texture mapping units taken out. In other words, a 4x1 pipeline/TMU based graphics processor. You might also be interested to hear that the 8500/9200 are pixel/vertex shader capible. Upto the spec of 1.4.
Info on parts of GPU specific to Core image (imo)
Heres more news, the 9200s, like the 8500s, being shader 1.4 GPUs, do actually have a basic capabilty for branching & shader looping. Which means that with a little work on Apple part, the Core Image aspects could be made to run on 9200 chipsets, just with shorter shaders, and more of them, rarther than one longer shader instruction. Which would take up more video memory, but with 32Mb there, its more than possible.
Also, the card supports Fullstream, which while it is a PC centered feature, is easyily adapted to macs. As its another shader effect that can apply post filter effects to images & videos, and clean them up, removing pixelation/blockyness, which according to the Apple website, is another feature of core image.
So it seems to me, with what information we have, that if Apple actually bothered, we could have the full feature set of core image running smoothly on our G4 iBooks. If they make the effort. Which i cant see them doing to be honest.
Oh, and to the person complaining about 9800s and power consumtion on them, get over it. PC users have had cards that have external power connections on them for 2 years now. You think 9800s are bad? You wait till you get 6800Ultras, dual 6800Ultras on Apple systems. Then you can start complaining.
For reference, the 9800s use about 60W of power. Drawing 25W of it from the AGP slot. And seeing as Mac based 9800s also have AGP Pro support, add another 25W to that from the slot alone. So an extra 10W would be drawn from your Macs PSU. Now look at the 6800Ultras. 100W. Each. 2 of them, 200W. Now comment.
You all say that in order to use Core Image, that we`d need a video card capabile of rendering with pixel/vertex shading effects.
And that the G4 iBooks wernt compatible.
News flash everyone, the 9200s used in the G4 iBooks are basically Radeon 8500s that are clocked slower and have 1 of their normal 2 texture mapping units taken out. In other words, a 4x1 pipeline/TMU based graphics processor. You might also be interested to hear that the 8500/9200 are pixel/vertex shader capible. Upto the spec of 1.4.
Info on parts of GPU specific to Core image (imo)
It appears that the compatible cards on Apples list are either Pixel/Vertex shader v2.0 or 3.0 compatible. Which would leave me to belive that the Core Image setup needs some sort of shader branching and loop support.
Heres more news, the 9200s, like the 8500s, being shader 1.4 GPUs, do actually have a basic capabilty for branching & shader looping. Which means that with a little work on Apple part, the Core Image aspects could be made to run on 9200 chipsets, just with shorter shaders, and more of them, rarther than one longer shader instruction. Which would take up more video memory, but with 32Mb there, its more than possible.
Also, the card supports Fullstream, which while it is a PC centered feature, is easyily adapted to macs. As its another shader effect that can apply post filter effects to images & videos, and clean them up, removing pixelation/blockyness, which according to the Apple website, is another feature of core image.
So it seems to me, with what information we have, that if Apple actually bothered, we could have the full feature set of core image running smoothly on our G4 iBooks. If they make the effort. Which i cant see them doing to be honest.
Oh, and to the person complaining about 9800s and power consumtion on them, get over it. PC users have had cards that have external power connections on them for 2 years now. You think 9800s are bad? You wait till you get 6800Ultras, dual 6800Ultras on Apple systems. Then you can start complaining.
For reference, the 9800s use about 60W of power. Drawing 25W of it from the AGP slot. And seeing as Mac based 9800s also have AGP Pro support, add another 25W to that from the slot alone. So an extra 10W would be drawn from your Macs PSU. Now look at the 6800Ultras. 100W. Each. 2 of them, 200W. Now comment.
Core Image, according to the sources I've been able to look at, Core Image is a robust framework in Tiger for ultra-fast, high-precision image processing. Using the power of the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit), developers can now use filters, transitions, and effects in their applications. All of these effects are rendered on the fly, and they only require the developers to add a little bit of code. The beauty of it all is that this lifts some processing work off of your CPU (Central Processing Unit), the main brain of the Mac. GPUs are really powerful now, and all of the rendering will be shifted to them instead of the CPU.
In short, developers can add cool effects while the user sees these effects instantly. If the user doesn't have a GPU that's fast enough to render the effects, the effects don't show or they are processed in the GPU.
-Chase
In short, developers can add cool effects while the user sees these effects instantly. If the user doesn't have a GPU that's fast enough to render the effects, the effects don't show or they are processed in the GPU.
-Chase
But by the time Tiger releases, all of us with 8500's, 9000's, and 9200's will have been able to upgrade our video cards. ATI should give us a new low end video card hopefully early next year, the x300 possibly, that does have support for Pixel/Vertex Shader 2.0+.Then we all won't have to worry about it anymore. I feel sorry for those of you with systems that are unable to update your video cards. I would never buy a system that is not upgradeable, towers only for me .
.Reinstalled Tiger and Lost Core Image
Due to hard drive failure I reinstalled Tiger on my G4 PowerPC 733Mhz with a Radeon 9000 promac 64 MB video card (I have heard it isn't core image compatible). The problem is that I used to have animation and great video playback and now that is gone, Quicktime 7 has choppy video, youtube is choppy.
What could be the problem with the re install that could affect the video playback? Has anybody else had this problem with a reinstall?
I don't want to upgrade the video card because this one used to work perferctly.
Profiler data:
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro:
Chipset Model: ATY,RV250
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4966
Revision ID: 0x0001
ROM Revision: 113-99702-130
Displays:
Apple Cinema Display:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected
Due to hard drive failure I reinstalled Tiger on my G4 PowerPC 733Mhz with a Radeon 9000 promac 64 MB video card (I have heard it isn't core image compatible). The problem is that I used to have animation and great video playback and now that is gone, Quicktime 7 has choppy video, youtube is choppy.
What could be the problem with the re install that could affect the video playback? Has anybody else had this problem with a reinstall?
I don't want to upgrade the video card because this one used to work perferctly.
Profiler data:
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro:
Chipset Model: ATY,RV250
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4966
Revision ID: 0x0001
ROM Revision: 113-99702-130
Displays:
Apple Cinema Display:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected