Could HP have cracked it?

[R-41157]

Right, I am not yet a true mac convert as I still have not bought a mac, so I am kind of on the fence still. But I wonder if HP might have cracked it and designed a better looking laptop than Apple.

Now, i am no expert and this may even be posted in the wrong section but the new HP Voodoo 133 is fricking gorgeous! And considering all this talk of macbook and MBP redesigns that just are not appearing I would have to say the 133 is a better looking notebook, than even the Air in my opinion.

Im not refering particularily to quality, operatings systems and specs (even though it seems, other than the mac OS the 133 is packing just as much punch as at least the air). It is just a shame HP couldnt have held off until Montevina and managed to get a 2.4ghz in there.

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions!

 

[zap2]

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the desing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions!

Well I think PC makers are getting "it" People want nice looking hardware, as well as good working. Apple should(and will) update its laptop line soon, I'd imagine, but as Dell and HP pour cash into the R&D side of computers, the gap on looks will be smaller. Thats when OS X kicks.

 

[R-41157]

Yeah i agree, I have had some experience with a very old apple OS and non of OS X but I can imagine it is awesome compared to vista, which is basically CRAP!!

 

[neiltc13]

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

 

[cwheatley]

I've experienced the complete opposite on two OEM installations.

 

[Digital Skunk]

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions!

Yes. The HP Blackbird, also by Voodoo and much better looking than their onyx or whatever is an amazing machine inside and out, and what I would like to see in the next Mac Pro. Not the large footprint, just the innards.

The 133 is nice, but what gets me is the esata connection and simple design. I hope the rest of their line follows suite, and I hope Windows makes an OS worthy to switch back so I can once again enjoy the various flavors of PC hardware.

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

Sorry, but that's just your experience. I don't think Vista is as horrible as other make it out to be having used it quite a bit much, but personal experiences only go so far, especially on the web.

Leopard hasn't given me any trouble after the 5.2 release.

 

[skye12]

In my experience, Windows Vista is far more stable than Leopard.

Oh really. I have NEVER had one crash using Leopard. To insinuate
any Microsoft OS is stable is unfathomable.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Oh really. I have NEVER had one crash using Leopard. To insinuate
any Microsoft OS is stable is unfathomable.

And I haven't had a crash with Vista.. Honestly, I think OS X is better, but Vista is nowhere near as bad as its reputation would lead you to believe.

 

[jonswan]

I can't imagine a time when I'd go back to Windows, so the beauty of HP or whatever else is completely irrelevant. I don't choose Macs just because they're beautiful - it's the way I interact with them that counts (OSX, apps). Still, I'm glad to see companies making better hardware.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I can't imagine a time when I'd go back to Windows, so the beauty of HP or whatever else is completely irrelevant. I don't choose Macs just because they're beautiful - it's the way I interact with them that counts (OSX, apps). Still, I'm glad to see companies making better hardware.

I agree, but I hope that Windows does get that level of interaction. Unfortunately, they haven't been doing too good a job.

 

[localoid]

...
But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???
...

Eh, competition is good. It keeps all the players working harder... Meanwhile, back on Reality Street, Apple's Mac sales numbers are good. Mac Unit Sales Grew 50% In May.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I'm not a big fan of Windows, but I do have to say that HP's new line up of Voodoo PCs are very impressive. Spec and design they are very good and as Windows product I think they will make a very good impact, however I don't really think they will compete with Apple.

IMHO these Voodoo PCs will sell very well however Apple does cover a different market so I can't really see any direct competition. Anyway the deal breaker for me would be no Mac OS X, not being able to use Rapidweaver, Coda and CSS Edit would be a disadvantage for me.

 

[SchneiderMan]

hp is a good company and their notebook designs are really nice

 

[heatmiser]

That's a sweet notebook, but they've got to bring the price down.

 

[chrono1081]

You guys may want to re-think your love for HP.

I used to think no one could make a better notebook then HP and bought one back in 2005. It was amazing. I sold them a lot while working in electronics retail. Then saw customers start to return the newer ones towards the end of working in retail (I'm talking a lot of returns). I thought that it was just people didn't know how to use vista cause I never had problems with it when I missed with it in the store. So I bought my new hp laptop and thought I liked vista...

Well, my hp out of the box worked find, I installed a few programs and got the "windows startup lag" (where you can have pretty much nothing start with windows, and windows will pop up and look loaded, but about 30 seconds later it "refreshes" and closes whatever you did and your back to to the desktop). This was annoying but I could deal with it. Then all my hot key buttons and cd rom drive died. I figured I got a lemon, no biggie, I just took it back and exchanged it since it was within the 15 day exchange. I saw this kind of thing happen all the time. (Co-workers who were anit-hp were giving me the "I told you so's" and pointed to the many returned hp's we had)

Well, long story short I got the same model and kept it for 5 months and sold it. It was horrible and the reason I now own a mac. Between HP's failing hardware and vistas unusability* I had enough. I sold my $1500 laptop for $500 and ordered a mac online. This was in 2008 when I sold it so models may be better but make sure if you go buy an hp you can return it if you are unhappy. I was really dissapointed as I saw I was not the only one with these problems and I really liked HP's designs. At the time they were the only ones offering nice looking PC's.

*As far as vista being unusable I really think it has to deal with all the different kinds of hardware out there. I don't think vista can run good on all of it. A few people can run vista with no problem. People who do surfing and basic use will probably have no problem. If you need to do things like heavy data backup, 3d modeling, coding, hardcore use I consider vista unusable. I finally saw where customers were coming from. Data transfers would take 12 - 15 hours on vista, and often freeze compared to 2 hours on xp with no freezes. Any intensive applications would just shut down with some error every now and then. I wasn't able to do what I needed to do on a pc with vista. (XP worked fine). Not to mention my hp wasn't the only vista machine I had problems on. I have hundreds of machines I can play/test on at work on any given day.

Now, to those about to flame me for hating Vista...I just want to know one thing. If it looked exactly like Windows XP instead of being all glossy and shiny would you still prefer it over XP?

 

[QCassidy352]

it looks exactly like every other generic pc notebook out there, just smaller. What are you all talking about?

 

[thegoldenmackid]

I'm pretty sure neiltc13 was being sarcastic...

HP with Vodoo is getting better, But that powerbrick is still rather unattractive and the ports. One of the greatest things about Apple's hardware is the familiarity and consistency. Alan Mulally, CEO of Ford, formerly of Boeing when he first took the job took home a different Ford model everynight, from the Focus to the GT and he realized that on every car, the dash, console and other controls were all different. He thought this was dumb, where as on a Mac, the ports are all the same, the CD Drive is always on the right iThink (iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro). I just hope HP keeps consistency.

 

[chrono1081]

it looks exactly like every other generic pc notebook out there, just smaller. What are you all talking about?

I have to agree. After finding a picture of it I don't see anything impressive...

Not to mention Voodoo PC was always waaaay overpriced. I was always able to configure a Hypersonic model with a lot better specs for a lot less money. Now that Voodoo is part of HP this may have changed.

 

[hexonxonx]

I don't think it looks so good either.

I have been a long time owner of HP laptops and desktops, ever since the mid 90s and they have always been some of the most reliable computers. I can never say a bad thing about them.

I still have a HP laptop that works fine, a dual core 1.8 with the piano finish. That laptop looks better than the new ones discussed in this thread.

 

[surferfromuk]

Right, I am not yet a true mac convert as I still have not bought a mac, so I am kind of on the fence still. But I wonder if HP might have cracked it and designed a better looking laptop than Apple.

Now, i am no expert and this may even be posted in the wrong section but the new HP Voodoo 133 is fricking gorgeous! And considering all this talk of macbook and MBP redesigns that just are not appearing I would have to say the 133 is a better looking notebook, than even the Air in my opinion.

Im not refering particularily to quality, operatings systems and specs (even though it seems, other than the mac OS the 133 is packing just as much punch as at least the air). It is just a shame HP couldnt have held off until Montevina and managed to get a 2.4ghz in there.

But what do we think macers and converters, would anyone agree that PC notebooks are creeping up on the heels of apple in the designing stakes, and that apple may need to stop focusing so much on the damn iphone and get a couple new notebooks into the arena before they are taken over???

Opinions!

Everyone's copying Apple - that's enough to know they are the leader...

And recently this copying has become a shameless epidemic - everyone is simply JUST copying Apple almost pixel for pixel.

but this is the real point - the copy is largely just superficial - it's a surface copy - 'similar design', 'similar ad's', 'similar features'.

I wonder if this is why Apple are releasing Snow Leopard as their next OS - it's almost as if they're saying 'OK, so you can mimic what's on the top but there is no way you can engineer what we've got going on underneath'.

Now that's already the case - OS X running on 64-bit Unix, totally integrated H/W and S/W, integrated apps, integrated H/W - > Web - > OS on a variety of technological fronts. All flawlessly executed and delivering 100's of little advantages that add up to a significantly superior experience.

As for the HP design is it a great looking copy of kit but it's sadly running Vista and so you personal productive daily experience is going to be VISTA not OS X.

BTW - is it Aluminium ? Does it have the magnetic power cable, does it have the backlit keyboard, does it have a multi-touch touch pad, does it have nasty vendor specific drivers to integrate it with Vista that cause all kinds of problems, does it have it's battery in the centre so it's perfectly balanced and cools between your knees rather than on your thigh, does it have an LED screen, does it have slot loading drive or a pop out caddy, does it have FW 800, what's the video card? - I don't know the specs and It could have a couple of these points but I doubt it has them all - so again it's a superficial copy...

 

[Erasmus]

Ugh, no. How is this better looking than a black Macbook?
Funniest thing about this, is the pictures I saw of it had smudges all over it. On the trackpad (which is wierd, I wouldn't want bumps all over a trackpad!) and on the front edge on both sides of the trackpad.

I know it sounds a lot like " The MBP is the pinnacle of awesome, and anything else is inferior", but it just seems like they tried to go for the simple look, copying Apple, but went too far.

And then there's this:
http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=3331&p=2
AAARGH! The reflections are EVERYWHERE!!!

Seriously, if someone wants to make a more sexy computer than a MBP, they have to do a better job than that. I want to see design when I look at it, not something that screams "I'm a Black Macbook, but shinier!". Design shouldn't be about just beating the competition, it should be about form and function, without any other goals and targets in mind. OK< I think I'm ramblng a bit now, and so I'll quit before I start sounding like an Arts student.

If I was designing the next MBP, I would have it flaunt its features. I don't think Apple should be afraid of the air intakes and exhaust, especially as bigger ones mean Apple can use bigger fans, and have them spin slower, thereby both increasing cooling, and reducing noise. Materials should never be chosen for aesthetics alone in my opinion. Carbon fibre is fine, it is very strong, and therefore gives the sense of power, but then to polish it like that just takes all that away. Clearly Apple chose Aluminium because although it does look great, it is also very highly heat conductive, quite strong, and very resistant to corrosion, and serious damage. Sure, it will dent if you hit it hard enough, but it will absorb blows. Carbon Fibre won't, and the Macbook's polycarbonate is even worse. I'd rather have a dent than a crack.

It's uncanny how good things tend to look when aesthetics are ignored, and the effort is instead expended on making it as good as possible at its intended role. Perfect example of this is any modern aircraft versus so many architect designed buildings. Of course there are plenty of counterexamples too, but in my opinion, computers definitely fit into the "design for function is sexy" category.

And I think I'd better quit rambling now before I lose all credibility as an engineer/scientist.

 

[mixmacface]

Yeah i agree, I have had some experience with a very old apple OS and non of OS X but I can imagine it is awesome compared to vista, which is basically CRAP!!

i'm sorry, but vista, as far as i'm concerned, is not crap. i've worked on several os's before, and whenever i encounter leopard, it's not as spectacular as some would lead you on to believe. if you tone down the visual for vista, it runs SO smoothly and a lot quicker. you can turn off the "alerts" that come standard, and everybody complains about. i just don't agree that vista is crap.

and the voodoo lines are alright. . nothing to write home about. and it's a little pricey.

my 2c.

 

[Hmac]

Right, I am not yet a true mac convert as I still have not bought a mac, so I am kind of on the fence still. But I wonder if HP might have cracked it and designed a better looking laptop than Apple.

LOL. We've all been hearing about "Apple killers" and "iPod killers" and "iPhone killers" starting 20 years ago. I remember the Zune (R.I.P.). Microsoft, and the bulk of the electronics press, were pretty sure THAT device was going to put Apple in its place.

Since 1977, the only company that has ever come close to "killing Apple" was Apple itself.

So, HP has developed a "MacBook killer", huh? Yawn.

 

[jodelli]

I've sort have been wondering why one or two PC manufacturers haven't had a go at embellishing some flavor of Unix for their own machines. Want compatibility? Offer a dual boot or some version of Wine. There are machine specific versions of Linux beginning to show up.
Such as a limited version of Xandros for Asus, the full version of which can run iTunes for instance.

Hey, I don't have 10.5 yet, and probably won't until purchasing a new Mac. Tiger still works for me, for now.

 

[jemeinc]

I agree, but I hope that Windows does get that level of interaction. Unfortunately, they haven't been doing too good a job.

'Windows' probably will never get the same "level of interaction" as Mac users enjoy- though 'Microsoft' might.. They've shown that they see merit in the way Apple, and specifically Steve Jobs, insist on controlling the whole user experience with the XBOX and recently the new Zune.. It just works better that way.. It has to- when you're building software that only runs with a limited # of hardware it makes everything easier.. It's a good system for todays consumer.. Unfortunately the very same thing that made Windows the huge success it became is also the major reason it will never be as good as it could be.. When you have literally thousands of hardware options things will just go awry at times..

Now, to be fair things go wrong on Macs too, but troubleshooting is so much simpler when everything is in house.. The solution is simple as well- Apple sends out an update to millions of users in one shot that corrects any software and driver issues and for the most part things are well again.. As opposed to MS who has to coordinate any updates to fix issues with the hardware companies- which can take time and lead to all kinds of unresolved issues..

Some may not like Jobs' insistence on controlling the whole user experience- but there's no denying it works.. He was just 30 years ahead of his time with the concept.. Back in the beginning of computers' first growth spurt people actually wanted cheap boxes so they could upgrade themselves and use their own hardware.. Most of the people using computers then were hardcore- they were willing to deal with any issues resulting from this "plug and play" mindset..More importantly, they knew how to deal with the issues.. Today, most consumers just want it to work smoothly- Apples business model gives them the best shot of achieving this..