Could we please get an iPhone Legacy sub forum?

[turbineseaplane]

With the X imminent and the widening of the iPhone range, could we possibly get an iPhone Legacy sub forum that's meant for iPhone SE and older/smaller users perhaps?

Much like the MacBook Air forum is now relative to rMB and MBP forums, it feels like SE lovers have totally different sensibilities and usage cases/interests vs those buying the latest 4.7" and up (and X for sure).

It'd be really wonderful to have a dedicated spot for our questions and discussions to thrive and not get buried so much.

Thank you in advance!

 

[rafark]

You're right. iPhone 8 users need their place.

 

[dstew201]

Eeeew. Legacy!!!

 

[maflynn]

Much like the MacBook Air forum is now relative to rMB and MBP forums,

MacBook Air forums are at the same level as MBP and MacBooks, they are not a subforum of MacBooks.

It'd be really wonderful to have a dedicated spot for our questions and discussions to thrive and not get buried so much.

Personally I don't see the need, yes the iPhone X chatter will most likely be most robust for the next few weeks but things will get settle down. For instance, once Apple rolls out an SE in the spring (hopefully) the same thing will happen, SE discussions will overtake most other types.

At that point, things will get very murky, because many SE discussions will be in a legacy forum and new SE discussions will in the iPhone forum.

Also what is legacy, Apple is still selling the SE, iPhone 7, do they qualify for legacy status, when they're still being sold?

 

[turbineseaplane]

MacBook Air forums are at the same level as MBP and MacBooks, they are not a subforum of MacBooks.

Sorry I wasn't more clear - Obviously they are not sub of MBP/MB, but sub of Laptops (figured people would understand what I meant)

It just seems like the laptop lines are like the phone lines now. They do mostly all the same things conceptually, but are segregated by size and some amount of power but they run the same OS.

I guess I don't really see how it's different between phones & laptops at this point?

Laptops: MPB/MB/MBA
iPhones: X/5.5"/4.7"/4" or Next Gen (X/+/NormalSize)/Legacy (4" and Smaller)


I just feel like the people that gravitate towards the SE (or whatever the current 4" is at the time) are wildly different users than those constantly front running for the latest 7/7+/8/8+/X.

It could be really productive and perhaps better organized to have us segregated out as other not frequently updated lineup members, Mac Mini (from other desktops) & MBA style (from other laptops), so we can discuss things unique to our devices, longer upgrade cycles, practicality, what we love and how we use them, etc.

I feel like it's hard to even have a chat about the SE without some level of users just insisting on coming and commenting on "too small" - "could never go back" - "old tech -pointless!" -"can't even imagine using that tiny crummy old thing!", on and on.

Anyhow - sounds like it's not in the cards.

Just know that there could be more users like me that are hesitant to participate on the forums very much due to that effect and everything related to our phones being totally swarmed and buried all the time.

Frustrating

 

[turbineseaplane]

Just another thought around this..

At the minimum, it feels like maybe the X is the one that should be the delinieater and off in it's own forum (along with future models built around the same tech).

There will be so many threads cropping up and will be endless around FaceID and no Home Button and the very very different interaction model of the new X vs everything else in the line.

So perhaps it should be iPhone X (and newer) in a different forum from all others?

I just think that when the devices get different enough, it's really cluttered to have everything "iPhone" in one area. Makes the same amount of sense as just having "all MacBooks/MacbookPro's" in one forum (which we don't have for good reason)

Perhaps something to think about?

 

[ericgtr12]

MacBook Air forums are at the same level as MBP and MacBooks, they are not a subforum of MacBooks.


Personally I don't see the need, yes the iPhone X chatter will most likely be most robust for the next few weeks but things will get settle down. For instance, once Apple rolls out an SE in the spring (hopefully) the same thing will happen, SE discussions will overtake most other types.

At that point, things will get very murky, because many SE discussions will be in a legacy forum and new SE discussions will in the iPhone forum.

Also what is legacy, Apple is still selling the SE, iPhone 7, do they qualify for legacy status, when they're still being sold?

This ^ when I first started coming around here I recall the same for every new version of the iPhone, felt like everyone was glossing over the ones that still existed but alas, in a couple of weeks things always normalize as soon as people stop geeking out over it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

This ^ when I first started coming around here I recall the same for every new version of the iPhone, felt like everyone was glossing over the ones that still existed but alas, in a couple of weeks things always normalize as soon as people stop geeking out over it.

See my post above yours…
I think that is the most compelling argument for separating out certain iPhones.

With the X, for the first time ever, we have iPhones with a completely different way to interact than before which will definitely lead to lots of threads related just to those things

 

[ericgtr12]

See my post above yours…
I think that is the most compelling argument for separating out certain iPhones.

With the X, for the first time ever, we have iPhones with a completely different way to interact than before which will definitely lead to lots of threads related just to those things

Meh, FaceID, OLED and a couple of camera tweaks aren't really that different. It's essentially the same as the 8 in every other way.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Meh, FaceID, OLED and a couple of camera tweaks aren't really that different. It's essentially the same as the 8 in every other way.

FaceID instead of TouchID and much more importantly, no home button and the way that changes app layout and interaction with the device are pretty substantive changes.

Just ask App developers who are having to rethink all the nav positions, layouts and interactions on their apps and work around the home swipe up, etc.

It's perhaps the largest change in iOS apps/interaction since inception honestly.

 

[C DM]

Meh, FaceID, OLED and a couple of camera tweaks aren't really that different. It's essentially the same as the 8 in every other way.

Except there are noticeable and meaningful differences as far as how the interaction with the device goes without the home button being available, and how various elements of the OS UI look, work, and respond. A fair bit off from every other way.

 

[ericgtr12]

Except there are noticeable and meaningful differences as far as how the interaction with the device goes without the home button being available, and how various elements of the OS UI look, work, and respond. A fair bit off from every other way.

Well, the same can be said when we went from slide to unlock to fingerprint ID and I don't recall separate forums for that either. It's probably a question for moderators here but I agree that once the buzz subsides a single forum is all that's needed. Just my .02.

 

[turbineseaplane]

a single forum is all that's needed. Just my .02.

I guess my question for you would be:

Why do we have separate MacBook/MacBook Air/MacBook Pro forums then?

They all have the same types of components, run the exact same OS and have identical interaction models. If anything, the new X has more differences between it and other iPhones than all of those MacBooks have differences among them.

I'll give my best answer to my own question for you up front.

I think the reason we have different forums for those laptops (and why we should at this time have different iPhone ones) is that the usage cases and types of users are fragmented and thus the types of discussions, issues and relevant conversations points are different.

 

[Pascal325]

Seems topics are getting flooded between the X now and 8 and when I am looking for an accessory for my 8 plus, it's all about X's now. I think it maybe time to split it up?

 

[OllyW]

It's the same every year, it will soon settle down.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's the same every year, it will soon settle down.

Even if it does settle down as before, I really think you guys are missing how big of a change the X is.
It's very much a different experience with different software and hardware talking points that will always be that way, well beyond initial settling down of the rush.

The X really should be segregated for the benefit of all.
I have no idea what the benefit is to having it all jammed into one huge mess.
:-(

 

[Pascal325]

Even if it does settle down as before, I really think you guys are missing how big of a change the X is.
It's very much a different experience with different software and hardware talking points that will always be that way, well beyond initial settling down of the rush.

The X really should be segregated for the benefit of all.
I have no idea what the benefit is to having it all jammed into one huge mess.
:-(

Agreed. It isn't the same phone or device. It needs it's own forum.

 

[annk]

I think it's a bit too early to tell. We always see a jump in the number of threads about new devices, and there are always requests right away for new subforums or new divisions. The first thing to do is wait a bit to see how things play out.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think it's a bit too early to tell. We always see a jump in the number of threads about new devices, and there are always requests right away for new subforums or new divisions. The first thing to do is wait a bit to see how things play out.

I'm so frustrated - It feels like people aren't reading what's posted here..

This is not really about the number of threads but more the types of threads.
It is the discussion points and very different interaction model of the X vs all other iPhones that makes a separate area such a smart idea.

The X is the future of iPhones and it's a big change and the discussions around all that will now and forever be on different points and increasingly feature different users as we move forward.

 

[annk]

I'm so frustrated - It feels like people aren't reading what's posted here..

This is not really about the number of threads but more the types of threads.
It is the discussion points and very different interaction model of the X vs all other iPhones that makes a separate area such a smart idea.

The X is the future of iPhones and it's a big change and the discussions around all that will now and forever be on different points and increasingly feature different users as we move forward.

I am reading what you post, and still believe that the wise course of action here - based on experience - is to wait. We can't know at this point if the discussions really will warrant a new section. And yes, part of the reason for creating a new section is indeed the number of threads over time.

Enthusiasm over new products always creates this urge for a new forum structure. Sometimes it turns out to be a good idea, sometimes not. So we wait and see before we act.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@annk I appreciate the response.

Can I ask, from your perspective, why do we have MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro subforums?

[doublepost=1510428679][/doublepost]

And yes, part of the reason for creating a new section is indeed the number of threads over time.

I guess that's my point. I think the interaction models alone make for a need for separating out the X, but if we go by number of threads over time, please consider this:

The iPhone forum has over 156,000 threads in it.
The entire Apple notebook forum, which encompasses the MB, MBA and MBP's only has 183,000 threads, which covers three product lines all of which are older than the history of the iPhone .

If the argument is number of threads dictates separating out products, it's way past time for the iPhone section to get some subdivisions into older/newer or by screen size, or something.

 

[annk]

@annk I appreciate the response.

Can I ask, from your perspective, why do we have MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro subforums?

My perspective has to do with any subset of any forum section.

Decisions to add sections or alter forum structure are almost always made over time, in a process that takes the following into consideration: forum bloat, mirroring of current structure, number of threads beyond the first few weeks after a release, time elapsed since a new product or product version was released, possibility to use prefixes instead of adding sections, etc. We also consider points such as the one @maflynn made about how changes in structure can have effects down the road, so that those effects don't catch us by surprise.

We watch the development in number and type of discussions after things die down the first few weeks after a release, and we take the time to discuss. On such a huge site with so many users it's important to make the changes that really are needed but not make more changes than truly are needed. I see from one of your posts that you think we're missing out on how big of a change this product is, and my answer to that is we always pay attention to how new products affect forum use and how structural changes might facilitate that.

My experience is the same as that of @maflynn and @OllyW, who have already posted in this thread: Things will very likely die down. This is not the first time we've seen this. So we wait and see.

If the argument is number of threads dictates separating out products, it's way past time for the iPhone section to get some subdivisions into older/newer or by screen size, or something.

The argument is not the number of threads. The number of threads is one aspect of a big picture that evolves over time.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@annk

So just to be succinct, forget iPhones completely, why do we have different MacBook sub forums?

I'm re-reading what you just typed several times and it doesn't feel like it it answers that question very clearly, or perhaps I'm just not understanding.

Or if you do want to relate it to iPhones, what is it about the different MacBooks and the differences between each line that necessitates different forums for each that does not apply to the iPhones?

Thanks again
I appreciate all the attention you're paying this

 

[annk]

@annk

So just to be succinct, forget iPhones completely, why do we have different MacBook sub forums?

I'm re-reading what you just typed several times and it doesn't feel like it it answers that question very clearly, or perhaps I'm just not understanding.

Or if you do want to relate it to iPhones, what is it about the different MacBooks and the differences between each line that necessitates different forums for each that does not apply to the iPhones?

Thanks again
I appreciate all the attention you're paying this

We always have discussions about forum structure when a new product is launched, so I've put this response together from a combination of points raised and discussed by several moderators and administrators.

Specific to your question:

With iOS most people update to the latest version (if their device permits it), while with macOS many people stay on older versions. And that may be because people tend to replace phones more frequently than they replace desktops and laptops, so they get stuck on older macOS versions. This means less stratification of models and features in the iPhone section than in the macOS sections, where we still see people on 2008 models with Lion 10.7.x asking questions.

When moderators post in order to help people with laptop problems and they see questions such as "can I do xxx"... or "why is xxx happening", their answers will often be very different depending on the macOS version involved. That's why it helps to have the separate sub-forums. Otherwise they first need to ask which macOS version they're on.

For iPhones their answers to those same questions will almost always be the same regardless of iPhone version. Unless someone has a really old iPhone, it is usually safe to assume they are on iOS10 or iOS11.

General aspects of forum structure:

There are tradeoffs between having distinct forums for each product variation and leaving them combined. Distinct forums let people focus on discussions about one model or version with fewer distractions, but make it harder to find discussions about the product in general. Not all discussions are about a specific product model, but some obviously are. The latter tend to be most frequent when the product is new.

We have to limit the number of forums because the more sections we have, the more people have to scroll past them to get to other forums, and the more trouble it is to figure out where to start a new thread. This is more of a problem for new forum members than for long-time forum members who know their way around and see the slow evolution.

We study these tradeoffs for each new product.

 

[goshindoman]

A watch is a watch, A car is a car etc blah blah. All differ a great deal though. As a newcomer to this forum it IS confusing to find all and every iPhone lumped into one section? I just purchased the 8 plus and really don't want to wade through loads of posts discussing non 8+ related topics that is why I have moved onto another Apple forum where they have dedicated model sections.
For the life of me I cant see the argument against this. To me as an outsider it appears just stubbornness on the part of the admin? I also cant see how this would cause more and not less work for the mods?

I understand nearly all models use the same IOS BUT they are not the same internals or design. Hey I am the guest here, as I don't like the way this forum is organised I am free to leave and join another and that is what I have done.

Does appear, no it is, odd that all iPhones are lumped into one section?

Ryland