Couldn't the MacBook Air be better than the iPad?

[Scottsdale]

This example is the ideal iPad user. A person that consumes media with their devices, and doesn't do much creation. Not trying to sound negative, just stating the facts.

The iPad is definitely built for someone that wants to just sit around and take in movies and websites and such. Making it a content creator is a little more involved, and requires a few more tools.



Stop NOT making sense.

1. No flash support, it's a 9" screen with a lower resolution.
2. See number 1
3. See number 1 (Hulu) also, bigger screen 17" FULL HD laptops people!
4. See number 1, bigger screen
5. HA! Can't play WoW on the iPad can we, or how about Civilization?

I am not bashing the iPad, but we need to keep things in perspective.

That is a better way to state "creation" vs. the "input from the user" I have been using to explain a computer's capabilities vs the iPad's capabilities.

I have been stating observation for what the user does with the iPad. I like your terms better.

You're right... the iPad is great for observation or consumption of data, videos, or whatever, but it's extremely inferior at "creation" of anything which is the point of working on a computer. We don't work to observe or consume, we work to create.

Nice post... exactly what my thoughts were and very first experience on the iPad was like.

 

[calderone]

I used an iPad today, and I didn't get near the experience you're touting. I couldn't even view the TEXT CONTENT on the very first website I visited, because the iPad is incapable of displaying the real Internet.

So what you are saying is that some web developer decided to use Flash to display TEXT Content? Am I getting that right? They used Flash to display Text and you blame the iPad? Hilarious.

 

[ravenvii]

^^^

*facepalm*

That's all I have to say.

 

[Scottsdale]

The fact is, the iPad has a much better screen. Period. I don't see how anyone can enjoy watching a movie on a 6-bit TN display.

It's higher quality in terms of color accuracy, but it's also much smaller. What do people buy for their wall, an extremely high quality 30" ACD with an IPS panel, or a 50"+ LCD? Size is more important to most people than extremely fine details which most people cannot see a difference in.

In addition, movies are NOT typically better on an IPS display. The color will be more accurate when still, but the response times would be inferior as well as frame rates on the IPS displays. IPS displays are not superior for motion of images on the displays, they're superior for still photos, crisp and sharp edges, and excellent color reproduction. They're used on high quality displays for WORK in 3D modeling, color accuracy, and extreme clarity, NOT for watching movies.

The most likely reason Apple used an IPS display on the iPad was for the viewing angle problem of TN displays. Think of sharing an iPad video if it were a TN display, it wouldn't do as good of a job. However, a computer by its nature is a one person machine, which is why a TN display does the job just fine. Apple knows what it's doing. In addition, the TN displays Apple uses are some of the highest color gamut displays that excel far beyond the normal or average of TN displays. Apple also uses LED backlighting for an incredible experience far different than a normal TN display you might see in a netbook or PC counterpart. The reason Apple uses these on the Mac notebooks is to take advantages of ALL of the uses a Mac user would need the display for. Realistically, a pro would probably prefer an IPS display and not for watching movies, but then most pros couldn't work on any Mac notebook. Most real "pros" who need a professional grade workstation use PCs with IPS displays or Mac Pros with a 30" ACD IPS display. Or these pros connect their MBP to a 30" ACD or NES (IPS) display for "professional" work.

I would much prefer an IPS display on my MBA, but I want it to be 13.3" and NOT 9." In addition, I want the IPS display for the entire workload I use the computer for, NOT specifically for the videos I watch.

If Apple's sole intent for the iPad was video playback for oneself, it would have been better off using a different display. The IPS display is excellent for stuff like reading and clarity of still images/photos on the iPad. The IPS display is excellent for viewing angles as the iPad is meant for sharing with the family. Apple envisions an iPad in every home on the coffee table shared by all. A computer is normally a one person interaction between him/herself and the computer.

Understand why you have an IPS display... it's not for the video playback for one person to watch a movie. It's for viewing angle capabilities to be shared, crisp viewing of family photos, excellent reading, perfect color reproduction, so your point of it being there for video playback for yourself is probably an incorrect point to make for the iPad. Say you are sharing a video on a plane with your spouse, better with the iPad if you can get away with sharing a 9.6" display. The display is also a higher quality display because it's meant to be held extremely close to the eyes which is different than TVs, computers, or Mac notebooks.

Apple uses the right displays for the job/device given the complete purpose of the device by most users. I would prefer an IPS display in my MBA next time but the average user wouldn't notice the difference or care too much because they're not using their MBA for things that an IPS display is superior at. You have to admit that Mac notebook displays are pretty incredible for their uses... I admit that the IPS display on the iPad is incredible, but I have to be sharing it with someone else for video playback or reviewing photos or reading with the iPad close to my eyes to notice the difference vs a TN, high color gamut, LED-backlit display like Apple uses in the Mac notebooks.

 

[drjsway]

Scottsdale, the iPad is 9" for 16x9 content, not 8". Regardless, laptops are 16x10 so you get letterboxing either way. More for 2.35:1 movies.

I've always appreciated quality over size. It's funny how people would rather buy a cheap 50" VIZIO than a quality 34" set at the same price. On that same note, resolution is also not as important as picture quality. A quality 720p set is better than a cheap 1080p set.

I have a Sony 34XBR960 in my bedroom. It's a 34" CRT that weighs 200 lbs. Never upgraded to a bigger flat panel because no flat panel exists today that beats the Sony in picture quality (Pioneer Kuro came close). My point is, size and resolution isn't as important as picture quality. From the distance I watch it in (about 7-8 feet), the 34" is about as big as an iPad.

I read about 4 hours last night in bed. This was in the dark room next to my sleeping wife. Never could've done that on a Kindle/Nook. This was my biggest drawback to physical books as well. I always needed an external light source and sometimes had to angle myself in positions to stay in the light.

Don't even get me started on flash. I've been boycotting flash for half a year now, way before the iPad. I even removed the flash plug-in from my computer. The only way it will go away is if you just stop using it.

 

[gwsat]

Funny, I still prefer the 50" flat panel hanging on the wall to watch movies with incredible surround sound to using a hand to hole the iPad next to my face to make it appear to look like a 50" flat panel hanging on the wall.

Agreed. There is simply no viewing experience available on a computer that even comes close to watching a Blu-ray movie with 5.1 HD audio on a 60 inch plasma display and hearing it through a first class 7.1 audio setup. That's why my lip tends to curl when I read all the whining about Apple's failure to make BD burner/players available in its laptops. For me at least, it's a non-issue.

Your comment about the iPad's critical limitation, the absence of Flash support for Web usage, made sense. With an iPad, this limitation keeps you from ever knowing in advance whether you are going to be able to see any given Web page. That's bad and would be a deal breaker for me, if the iPad's virtual keyboard weren't already a deal breaker.

 

[drjsway]

In addition, movies are NOT typically better on an IPS display. The color will be more accurate when still, but the response times would be inferior as well as frame rates on the IPS displays. IPS displays are not superior for motion of images on the displays, they're superior for still photos, crisp and sharp edges, and excellent color reproduction. They're used on high quality displays for WORK in 3D modeling, color accuracy, and extreme clarity, NOT for watching movies.

NOTE: That was weird. Edited my post and it reverted to an earlier post.

I disagree. Note that all TVs, even the cheapest, are 8-bit. 6-bit displays can only produce 262k colors whereas 8-bit produces 16.7M, 67 times more! It is noticeable in all movies in the form of color banding, especially in backgrounds with different shades of the same color (dark night scene, the blue in the sky, etc.) There is also more grain. Dithering helps but is not perfect yet.

Also, response times only matter when playing games with very high frame rate. Not at all for videos.

The MBA/MBP screens are still much much better than netbooks screens. I wouldn't want to browse the web on those things, much less watch a movie. Netbooks are still selling well though, which I guess means that most people don't really care anyway.

 

[calderone]

^^^

*facepalm*

That's all I have to say.

Facepalming doesn't render my post incorrect.

And here is what is really strange about the masters.org website. You can see many scores until you go to look at the Full Leader Board. The mini Leader Board on the left is visible on the iPad, the Cumulative Statistics. Tap that Full Leader Board link and bam, Flash. And the display in Flash is virtually the same as the non-Flash lists.

Why do Web Developers do this? I really don't get it.

 

[ravenvii]

Facepalming doesn't render my post incorrect.

And here is what is really strange about the masters.org website. You can see many scores until you go to look at the Full Leader Board. The mini Leader Board on the left is visible on the iPad, the Cumulative Statistics. Tap that Full Leader Board link and bam, Flash. And the display in Flash is virtually the same as the non-Flash lists.

Why do Web Developers do this? I really don't get it.

I facepalmed because I agree with you 100%, I'm facepalm-ing at the poster you quoted.

 

[calderone]

I facepalmed because I agree with you 100%, I'm facepalm-ing at the poster you quoted.

Oh, well now I look like a jackass. Sorry about that. The up arrows made it seem as if it was directed to me. I apologize.

 

[maz94protege]

honestly no comparison. the iPad cant play all the same software (now) that the Macbook Air can. Both are supurb devices, cant win or loose with either. Its all in what you want to do with them. Surf the web, photos, videos.....definatley do the iPad. But more software, gaming and advanced video/photo editing....the MacbookAir.

 

[Scottsdale]

NOTE: That was weird. Edited my post and it reverted to an earlier post.

I disagree. Note that all TVs, even the cheapest, are 8-bit. 6-bit displays can only produce 262k colors whereas 8-bit produces 16.7M, 67 times more! It is noticeable in all movies in the form of color banding, especially in backgrounds with different shades of the same color (dark night scene, the blue in the sky, etc.) There is also more grain. Dithering helps but is not perfect yet.

Also, response times only matter when playing games with very high frame rate. Not at all for videos.

The MBA/MBP screens are still much much better than netbooks screens. I wouldn't want to browse the web on those things, much less watch a movie. Netbooks are still selling well though, which I guess means that most people don't really care anyway.

It is not about how many colors it can create. I said that IPS is better at color accuracy! I disagree with your statement about games being the only problem for IPS. My point was not that Apple displays are just better than netbook and alternative PC displays, it was that in terms of TN displays, Apple has the extremely best of the best!

 

[calderone]

It is not about how many colors it can create. I said that IPS is better at color accuracy! I disagree with your statement about games being the only problem for IPS. My point was not that Apple displays are just better than netbook and alternative PC displays, it was that in terms of TN displays, Apple has the extremely best of the best!

What flavor is the Kool-Aid? It must taste really good.

But you know what, I bet Apple does have the best low res display on the market.

 

[ouimetnick]

What flavor is the Kool-Aid? It must taste really good.

But you know what, I bet Apple does have the best low res display on the market.

Scottsdale is talking about the color, not the pixels. But Steve should say, "If a customer can see the pixels on the screen, the company blew it". The iPas has a low res display, but the pixels display a very high quality color.

 

[calderone]

Scottsdale is talking about the color, not the pixels. But Steve should say, "If a customer can see the pixels on the screen, the company blew it". The iPas has a low res display, but the pixels display a very high quality color.

Even then? Where is the evidence of Apple's TNs being "better than the rest on the market?

While the iPad res may be "low" it is not low for its size. The iPad has nearly 20 more pixels per inch when compared to a MBA.

And I can't see pixel on my 30" which has lower pixel density than the iPad, and I can't see them on the iPad either. So your statement is, false.

And to be clear, I mean pixels in the sense of being able to discern actual the pixels themselves.

 

[lifeinhd]

Can [your laptop] zoom in quickly to get rid of ads on the right side?

Yes, ctrl+scroll. Not that I really care, since screen real-estate isn't at a premium on my 15" MBP unlike on a 10" iPad.

Haven't touched my MBA since Saturday.

I'll assume this is because the excitement over getting a new toy hasn't yet worn off.

EDIT: look at sites like Engadget. Articles on the left, crap on the right. Perfect for vertical mode and zooming in to cut out the crap on the right. I get 1024 vertical lines to browse with, almost as much as a 17" MBP and only 1.5 pounds to carry.

Yes, but if you're going to hold it sideways, you only get 768 lines horizontal. Too bad most sites are either 800 or 1024 across....

 

[drjsway]

Yes, ctrl+scroll. Not that I really care, since screen real-estate isn't at a premium on my 15" MBP unlike on a 10" iPad.

I'll assume this is because the excitement over getting a new toy hasn't yet worn off.

Yes, but if you're going to hold it sideways, you only get 768 lines horizontal. Too bad most sites are either 800 or 1024 across....

Yes, it's 768 horizontal, but remember, I zoomed in to cut out ads and other crap on the sides. Zooming in in a laptop is hardly the same thing. The iPad zooms the way an iPhone does, to exactly the width of the article you're reading. That's the biggest weakness of the laptop. Not being able to use it in portrait mode.

 

[lifeinhd]

Yes, it's 768 horizontal, but remember, I zoomed in to cut out ads and other crap on the sides. Zooming in in a laptop is hardly the same thing. The iPad zooms the way an iPhone does, to exactly the width of the article you're reading. That's the biggest weakness of the laptop. Not being able to use it in portrait mode.

I don't really see that as a weakness, simply because I never have to zoom in due to the extra space. Even on my netbook, I never zoom in (and I have OS X installed on the netbook, so it's also as easy as ctrl+scroll to zoom).

I don't know about OS X, but I know in Windows you can easily rotate your screen with a key combination. Then turn your laptop on its side, and voila, portrait mode. Not that you'd ever need/want to....

 

[drjsway]

I don't really see that as a weakness, simply because I never have to zoom in due to the extra space. Even on my netbook, I never zoom in (and I have OS X installed on the netbook, so it's also as easy as ctrl+scroll to zoom).

I don't know about OS X, but I know in Windows you can easily rotate your screen with a key combination. Then turn your laptop on its side, and voila, portrait mode. Not that you'd ever need/want to....

You don't have to zoom in but I get extra space. A website with a long column of text (basically any blog, article, or review site) I can fit more text on the screen without scrolling than you. I get almost as much text as a 17" MacBook Pro and I have a 9.7" device. That is a BIG advantage of using portrait mode.

A laptop on it's side is impossible to use.

EDIT: Two screenshots

MacBook Air:

iPad:

As you can see, I get much more information on the iPad and what do I lose? Two flash ads and wasted space on the right.

 

[gwsat]

Thanks to a poster's comments in another thread, I am rethinking my largely negative initial reaction to the iPad. I love the MBA and if Apple ups its RAM in its next update, it would be tempting for me. But today, I finally analyzed what my needs really are if my 17 inch MBP remains my primary computer, which it almost certainly will. Because I have a reliable every day computer that I am very happy with, it finally occurred to me that all I really need as an adjunct is a handy snatch and grab device that will be light weight, very portable, and provide quick, easy access to the Web. I am coming around to the idea that the iPad might be a better solution for me than the MBA. The dramatically higher cost of the MBA is also a factor.

 

[manhattanboy]

If you increased the battery life on the Air and gave it 3G I think it could be better than an iPad?

The Air's full keyboard, bigger screen, it's light and easy to carry does more with less effort and more convenience, right? I think so.

The iPad seems to be created for a market that doesn't yet exist and maybe doesn't need to exist? Now software developers and publishers are working to make their content iPad compatible which (I think) with the intention of getting us to pay for services, such as New York Times etc, things which we're getting free now browsing on a computer.

Do we need this new product and market that Apple seems to have created, the world's business climate needs it ... but does the consumer.

The iPad will not be as productive as device to use as compared to a MacBook Air, not yet anyway. Very very convenient yes ... but looks what's it's doing already, a whole new market of software, accessories, ipad bags, keyboards is here now...

What are we going to carry our iPad with our laptops on the way to work because it's convenient to take from your briefcase and read the newspaper, and then once we arrive at the office we have to reach in our bag for our laptop to get 'real work' done ... now you're carrying less instead of more.

I don't know, the big picture is us all having some kind of powerful ipad device in the future with no laptops in use I guess ... the iPad by then will likely do it all .... plug it into peripherals and it'll be a work horse.

The demise of the laptop as we know it? Or, is the iPad a product we didn't need in the first place, .... I wonder?

I think this debate is being played out internally at Apple; hence the next round of updates is NOT going to include the MBA (Apple doesn't want anything to cannibalize the Book of Jobs).

For all of you just using the MBA to surf the web for only non-flash based sites: SHAME ON YOU!!!!

The MBA does a hell of a lot more and not using it properly is like having a beautiful wife that you never get to see--its a tragedy

I use my MBA for its full CS3 suite (yeah, remember those days when Apple used to allow Adobe products to work on their systems?), Word, Excel, and Powerpoint (which is awesome on the MBA for presentations). I use video conferencing on it, download songs/movies, stream Hulu with my friends (which brings me to a major complaint about the MBA--the speaker sucks!), and take notes in lectures (being able to write on pdfs is a wonderful thing).

Would I give up my MBA for the iPad, even a 3G one? Hell no!!!
If you need internet just BT-DUN through the iPhone. The MBA has allowed me to be so much more productive that I used to (even with a 12 inch Apple). I travel constantly and now I can bring my air EVERYWHERE. For short trips I'm now down to 1 messenger bag and that is purely amazing.

I'm curious to hear other MBA owners who use theirs similar to me: what has the iPad contributed that the Air didn't. I am rarely at home, but when I am I use the iMac for everything (BT mice/keyboards are great from bed FYI). What function will the iPad serve?

 

[Digital Skunk]

That is a better way to state "creation" vs. the "input from the user" I have been using to explain a computer's capabilities vs the iPad's capabilities.

I have been stating observation for what the user does with the iPad. I like your terms better.

You're right... the iPad is great for observation or consumption of data, videos, or whatever, but it's extremely inferior at "creation" of anything which is the point of working on a computer. We don't work to observe or consume, we work to create.

Nice post... exactly what my thoughts were and very first experience on the iPad was like.

No problem. That concept is what I've been reading a lot about, and it was also my first experience with the iPad. My biggest problem is that I am a freelancer, one that's always making something even if I am not getting paid for it (such as updating my site or blog) so I am always creating something.

My 17" MBP is exporting a slideshow as I type this. So my machine is still working even while I am consuming media and info. The iPad would be perfect if I just consumed media at any time, and never created anything, and even at that point the MBP would still be a better choice at times. I guess the iPad would be great if I were going on vacation, but then there'd be no Aperture.

You don't have to zoom in but I get extra space. A website with a long column of text (basically any blog, article, or review site) I can fit more text on the screen without scrolling than you. I get almost as much text as a 17" MacBook Pro and I have a 9.7" device. That is a BIG advantage of using portrait mode.

A laptop on it's side is impossible to use.

Or one could just shrink the web browsing screen instead of having all that space. Like the bottom picture.

Then I have more room to do other things.

 

[entatlrg]

A few guys from my office ordered iPads ... half of received them from the States by now ... already I've decided I'll resell mine to some other Canadian who's drooling waiting for the Canadian release date.

Like some posted I'm always creating something too ... so far with my limited iPad testing I'm already frustrated ... for example we're looking for a new home, what better device to sit on the couch and browse through mls listings ... but no flash means no go ... so back to grabbing the macbook air... for me it's not worth the inconvenience of carrying an extra device in my bag ..... especially when for my applications it does everything about half as good.

In the meantime I've over come iPad fever and just ordered the Sony Z too use as my ultraportable/netbook/iPad for a while .... just pop in my 3G internet stick and I've got near desktop power - anywhere ... at three pounds that's the same as the iPad and keyboard .... huge difference in price yes, but I use my devices for my business, price is no concern.

We'll see what Tuesday brings for the MBA if nothing develops I've got the new Z to play with, if it's big news I'll order it too and compare

 

[drjsway]

Or one could just shrink the web browsing screen instead of having all that space. Like the bottom picture.

Then I have more room to do other things.

Still doesn't change the fact that you get 1024 vertical lines instead of 800. As far as background tasks, that's coming in 4.0.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Still doesn't change the fact that you get 1024 vertical lines instead of 800. As far as background tasks, that's coming in 4.0.

True about the 1024, but the multitasking isn't anywhere near WebOS or a full fledged computer.