Couple of New Install questions...

Discussion in 'macOS' started by utradar, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. utradar macrumors newbie

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    #1
    It's been almost a year now since the release of Leopard and I've been contemplating an upgrade. I use Tiger on my 17" Powerbook G4, and now that nearly a year has passed I'm wondering if now might be a good time to step up to Leopard. I think I'd make use of most of the touted features, especially Time Machine as I have no method of backup currently in place.

    My big concern is are there any reasons not to do it? Having never installed before, if I choose to upgrade, will I have to re-install all my old apps like Final Cut Pro and AfterEffects or can I upgrade without having to dig out all my old install discs and set aside an entire day just to make the transition? It seems like either "Upgrade" or "Archive and Install" are the way to go, but I'm just not sure which to choose. Also, I only have about 11GB of space left on my hard drive, so will that be enough room or would I have to use my external drive somewhere in the install process?

    Thanks so much.
     
  2. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #2
    Don't worry about Leopard until you have a backup strategy in place. You'll need one especially if you plan on doing something so major as upgrading your operating system.

    Use the Archive & Install feature if you can. It should keep all your settings, documents and apps in place but get onto that backup ASAP in case something goes wrong.
     
  3. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #3
    Remember, MacOS X should have about 10% of your drive's capacity available as free space. This will allow the virtual memory system to work as intended. If you are down to 11 GB hard drive space, then you probably need to upgrade to a larger hard drive or to archive the old data stored on your existing hard drive.

    As to your primary question, I can hardily recommend that you upgrade to Leopard if you don't run Classic. Leopard is incompatible with Classic. If you have Classic apps--or even one irreplaceable Classic app--then you will have to stick with Tiger.

    If an OS is right for you, then a simple upgrade will work fine. As soon it it is done, all of your apps will work. Archive & Install is intended to fix problems.
     
  4. darkcurse macrumors 6502a

    darkcurse

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    #4
    You need about 15GB's of free space to be able to do an upgrade IIRC. Not too sure about that one though.
     
  5. utradar thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 4, 2008
    #5
    I use no Classic-based apps.

    I think part of the problem is that I kept a lot of files necessary to Final Cut Pro on the laptop's hard drive so I could run it and edit no matter where I am. I'd love to put it on the external drive if I can find out which files need to be moved (not sure how to find them) as I never edit without my external. I think that would free up a lot of space (like 40GB?).

    I'm definitely leaning towards the Upgrade install method, but what would be a good method for backing up until I start using Time Machine?
     
  6. darkcurse macrumors 6502a

    darkcurse

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    #6
    Use something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner to make a clone of your current machine. Then do the upgrade, play with it for about a week then if everything's alright reformat the cloned external and voila. You have a new system :)
     
  7. utradar thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #7
    I'm a little confused. You want me to reformat my external drive with the clone on it? I have a lot of other files on it already that I don't want erased. Am I missing something?
     
  8. utradar thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #8
    Well, I used OmniDiskSweeper to free up about 38GB of space, so I'm looking forward to installing Leopard. I got SuperDuper but I'm still not sure of the best method for backing up my HD or how much space that backup will take up. Should I be able to boot from that backup, because OSX won't let you boot from a backup stored on a USB external drive (firewire only).

    Thoughts?
     
  9. utradar thread starter macrumors newbie

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  10. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

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    #10
    OK first about formatting the eternal drive that you would have a clone on- I can see where that might not make sense at first. darkcurse mentioned not doing that until you were satisfied that your upgraded main drive was working to your satisfaction (he suggested a week, I might even suggest longer). So what that means is that all the stuff you don't want to lose is still on your main drive as well as the backup clone for that trial period and you could still clone the backup back onto the main drive should the upgrade not work correctly for you or if upgrade errors were noted.

    (Side Note: A good common sense approach is NOT to do an upgrade type of install UNLESS you have a full clone of your boot drive before beginning. If you don't want to do a full clone first, use only the Archive and Install type but that is probably not a choice for you as it uses quite a bit more space to store the archived items for safety. Realistically you are playing with fire :)eek:) to do any type of major system upgrade without a working tested clone before beginning (see notes about bootability below). Stuff happens.:()

    If all was well after the trial period then you could then safely do a new complete backup/clone of the main drive on the external. Both CCC and the registered/paid version of SuperDuper ($27) do have an option to do "incremental" backups to speed up the process, but it probably simpler and almost as fast to just do a new complete backup the first time around after a major upgrade. Subsequent backups can be done with the incremental type which will then be MUCH faster than full backups since only files changed since the previous backup are copied to the external.

    Now concerning your second post above quoted above-- again if you have the free version of SuperDuper you really don't have much choice. You select your main drive as the source, your external as the destination, use "backup all files" in the "using" selection, and your only choice in options- to erase the destination and copy all files from the source.

    Whatever space is noted as "used" if you do a Get Info on your main drive is how big the backup will be.

    As far as booting is concerned the FireWire requirement is not an OSX requirement- rather it is a requirement for booting from a drive that is used with a Mac that has a PowerPC processor (like your PowerBook). The later Macs that use Intel processors can boot OSX successfully from USB drives as well as FireWire. So in answer to your question, no- cloning with CCC or SD will NOT result in a bootable clone using your USB drive with your PowerBook.

    So have I confused you more now? ;)
     
  11. darkcurse macrumors 6502a

    darkcurse

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    #11
    Ah ok, well I was actually answering your question regarding a "good way to backup" and to me, that seems that the most secure option for keeping all your current data while doing the upgrade and providing a rollback possibility should anything go horribly wrong with the upgrade. That option assumes that you do have a spare external with enough capacity to clone your entire system now lying around. If not, then an Archive and Install might be a better option.

    TBH, Firewire is the way to go. I tried booting OSX from USB, and it was slow as mollasses. Usable, but noticeably laggy. When I booted from Firewire though, it was as if I was using the built-in drive. That being said however, PPC Macs such as your Powerbook will only boot OSX from an external Firewire drive.
     
  12. utradar thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #12
    Yes, thoroughly. :)

    I have the full version of SuperDuper. Let me try and figure out a series of steps to take.

    First and foremost, if I make a bootable backup on an external, will it automatically delete everything else on the external in order to write my backup?

    If that's the case I'll have to find a firewire drive to make the backup so I can boot from it later (should there be any problems with the Leopard upgrade).

    Once I've done that and I've done the Upgrade and played around with Leopard for a while and am certain that it's good for me, should I then start using Time Machine with my USB external?
     
  13. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

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    #13
    OK, will try to make this response clearer! ;) No promises that it will be, only that I will try.

    First- under normal circumstances yes, it will erase everything on the external in order to make the external a true "clone" of the internal-- IF the external is just one big partition.

    The external can be partitioned as 2 (or more) partitions, let's say Partition A for your general use and Partition B for the clone. In that scenario, you would select "Partition B" as the "destination" in SuperDuper (and of course your original internal drive as the "source") and you are off to the races, leaving everything in Partition A alone.

    If you would like to make it simplest, do pick up a firewire drive, like you mentioned, roughly the same size as your original internal (no need for any larger really unless you see increasing the size of your interal later) and clone to that. That makes it simple and adds the very important ability to immediately boot from the backup should there be a problem with the upgrade- something that would not be possible using your existing USB external.

    If you are going to use your external with Time Machine just one note for you to be aware of- Time Machine will not bother existing files at all (as it keeps its contents in a separate folder on the drive) BUT- it will expand over time to take up ALL the unused space on that drive since it continues to update its backups as long as there is free space available.

    You can get around that and limit Time Machine's portion of the external again by partitioning the drive and assigning Time Machine to use a specific partition. It will then expand over time to fill that partition, leaving any other partitiions untouched.

    An alternative to that is to just set up a schedule for SuperDuper to automatically do an incremental update to the FireWire clone. The only thing lost by doing that is the ability to grab older versions of a file that would be available using Time Machine. Using SuperDuper the only version of a file that would be available would be the latest backed up version of it.

    Hope that helps, and don't hesitate to ask more q's! Good luck with it all.
     
  14. utradar thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 4, 2008
    #14
    Ok. I think I finally understand. Thank you for breaking it down for me.

    It turns out that my USB drive is formatted for FAT, so my first step is getting it formatted for Mac, though I won't be using it for a bootable clone (just cleaing house). I want to break it up into two partitions anyway. Is Disk Utility the best app for this process?

    Thanks.
     
  15. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

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    #15
    Glad it is making some sense!

    Yes, Disk Utility is certainly the right tool for formatting and partitioning your drive. Now it should do this next step automatically, but be sure to check anyways- when you go to the partition tab and set it to two partitions, be sure to check the options button at the bottom to assure that it is set to APM (for Apple Partition Map). When PC formatted it is MBR (Master Boot Record) and I think it automatically changes to APM when you erase it/partition it, but double check while you are there ok? Can save you some headaches down the road! ;)

    Good luck to you!
     

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