Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes

TonyC28 said:
Wow! I really hope people don't read all of this and take is fact.
Click to expand...

Which part specifically is not factual?
Edit for some examples:
People often break the law unknowingly: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/you-break-the-law-every-day-without-even-knowing-it.html
Police can lie to you: http://www.criminalattorney.com/news/police-can-lie-to-you/
And for a funny slant on property seizures: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/10/h...o-explains-police-can-legally-seize-property/
 
Last edited:
Bartman01 said:
Which part specifically is not factual?
Edit for some examples:
People often break the law unknowingly: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/you-break-the-law-every-day-without-even-knowing-it.html
Police can lie to you: http://www.criminalattorney.com/news/police-can-lie-to-you/
And for a funny slant on property seizures: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/10/h...o-explains-police-can-legally-seize-property/
Click to expand...

Yes people unknowingly break the law. Yes police lie in interrogations. Yes your property can be seized.

Let's talk about the article you cited from the Washington's Blog (it's a blog so it must be accurate, I'll assume it is for our discussion). The point of that article is that there are so many laws on the books that somewhere along the way you're bound to break one without realizing it. So, to use that article's example, if you are stopped by a police officer for no reason at all and he searches your phone with no probable cause and happens to find your pictures of lobsters that you captured that are all under the allowable weight...you can rest easy because those pictures could never be used against you in court and therefore they'd have no case.

This thread would have died a long time ago if people would just do a small amount of research. And by "research" I mean Google. Look no further than the United States Supreme Court's ruling in Riley v. California. The police need a search warrant to search your phone. If in the end they force you to unlock it with your thumb, they will do so with a search warrant.
 
I guess you are right. Police never abuse their power, and nothing bad could ever come of people voluntarily waiving their rights and allowing police to search their property without a warrant. Once you waive that right, you aren't protected by it.

I was replying to the person saying that they would just waive their rights and unlock their phone for the police just because they asked because they 'had nothing to hide'.
 
Bartman01 said:
I guess you are right. Police never abuse their power, and nothing bad could ever come of people voluntarily waiving their rights and allowing police to search their property without a warrant. Once you waive that right, you aren't protected by it.

I was replying to the person saying that they would just waive their rights and unlock their phone for the police just because they asked because they 'had nothing to hide'.
Click to expand...

Well that's a fair point, for the sake of our freedoms I would say to never make it easy for the police. I think we basically agree.
 
TonyC28 said:
Well that's a fair point, for the sake of our freedoms I would say to never make it easy for the police. I think we basically agree.
Click to expand...

We likely do.

I was just trying to put a word of caution out against just blindly trusting what any police officer tells you their intentions are. If you look at the (humorous) Last Week Tonight piece, one of the first examples is someone just being cooperative, answering the officer's question about how much cash he had with him, and having $2400 seized from him. There was also a well publicized case a few years ago where a lower income family (who had no credit cards and were not sophisticated enough to know about travelers checks) saved up their money for a trip to Disney World in Florida and had it all seized from them on the way down there in a town notorious to the locals for doing this.

Odds are that any interaction you have with the police will be on the up and up, without them trying to 'get you'. And on the flip side, most police officers are just trying to do their jobs without getting attacked by some random thug at a basic traffic stop. But all in all, you are best served to be aware of and never voluntarily waive your rights.
 
Last edited:
Bartman01 said:
Good luck with that. Some estimates indicate that the average person (not criminals, just regular 'law abiding' people) breaks the law 5 times a week usually either unknowingly or unthinkingly. Other estimates indicate that the average person unknowingly violates 3 federal criminal laws each day.

Police are allowed to lie to you when questioning you, and they are also allowed to seize your property (including your cash) with no due process because they 'feel' that the property is facilitating a crime that there is no solid evidence may actually be occurring. You can certainly fight the seizure after the fact, but it will (except in rare cases) cost you more in legal fees than the property is worth.

Even if you have really done nothing wrong (that you know of), the worst case scenario of you voluntarily unlocking your phone is that you will find yourself arrested or having your property seized. If you are fine with that, then I wish you the best of luck and pray that you never find yourself on the wrong end of abuse of power.

All that being said, the case in question is a bit of a red herring since it involves an actual warrant - not random warrant-less searches. I would have a huge problem with them being able to compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant, less so when a warrant is involved.
Click to expand...

I simply have bigger things to worry about, and what the Police may find on my phone isn't one of them. There is really nothing for them to find.
 
skwash said:
That's why I wear sandals, and use TouchID with my toe.
Click to expand...

I carry a dead fish. No one has suspected thus far that it is the key to unlock my iPhone. Though currently I have been unable to use it due to the straight jacket.

:D
 
johnnyturbouk said:
Thank you ~ quite clear really #
Click to expand...
What's clear is your ignorance. Privacy is a value in itself. The 4th Amendment is designed to protect the rights of innocent people having their privacy invaded, not criminals.

The police do abusive $#!t all the time to innocent people. There's a reason we have a Bil of Rights.

Go read this article and tell me only criminals have something to fear from law enforcement:

Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required
 
JDSoCal said:
What's clear is your ignorance. Privacy is a value in itself. The 4th Amendment is designed to protect the rights of innocent people having their privacy invaded, not criminals.

The police do abusive $#!t all the time to innocent people. There's a reason we have a Bil of Rights.

Go read this article and tell me only criminals have something to fear from law enforcement:

Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required
Click to expand...

# # # #
Wake me up when you finish throwing your tantrum!
 
Female Response

What about using the wrong finger to unlock your iPhone. Then look up, innocently, at the officer and say "I have no idea why it's not recognizing my finerprint. ;)
 
JDSoCal said:
What's clear is your ignorance. Privacy is a value in itself. The 4th Amendment is designed to protect the rights of innocent people having their privacy invaded, not criminals.

The police do abusive $#!t all the time to innocent people. There's a reason we have a Bil of Rights.

Go read this article and tell me only criminals have something to fear from law enforcement:

Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required
Click to expand...


Also check out this article in LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-chp-officer-photo-trading-20141031-story.html

'A California Highway Patrol officer who resigned after he was caught sharing nude photographs taken from the cellphones of female suspects has been charged with two felonies.'
Click to expand...
 
deffcap said:
But surely America has all that Freedom™ they keep talking about?
Click to expand...

I love the ™.

I continue to see things things that makes it seem that we can walk from place to place and that's about it. Anything different is an issue or requires a permit.
 
WolfSnap said:
Looking at the smudges on the screen can help determine the password; however, if there are repeated numbers, you can't be sure how many repetitions there are (if any), and where the repetition is. It makes the task of unlocking a phone substantially harder.

http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2011/01/27/game-theory-and-probability-of-iphone-passwords/

Also, since you're not using a 4-digit passcode, there isn't even a way to know how many digits total there are.

For example, if you're passcode is 123456, you'd see all 6 of those digits smudged on the screen. But, if your code is 123345 you'd only see five smudged digits. You might see the overlap on the 3, but there's no way to know where the 3 is duplicated, if at all..

Anyways, the link above explains, but, in general, duplicated numbers are a good thing.
Click to expand...

That may work if you look at smudges. But I clean my display often and also move my fingers around without picking it up sometimes so there are lines all over. Even after 3 days of use I don't notice any smudges at all.
 
Windlasher said:
Multiple touch codes. IOS 8.2 or a jailbreak?

You could actually have to use several fingers in the right order which could be considered a code right? Finger 1 twice, finger 4 once. Thumb, thumb, finger1.

Even if you only use 2 fingers, the cops won't know. But I will bet that 99% use their thumb.
Click to expand...

Ugh, I'd stick with a passcode before doing that. TouchID is fast but it's not THAT fast.

----------
bawbac said:
Criminal instinct
Click to expand...

Privacy advocate, perhaps?

I've never been arrested. But I don't want random people (cops included) flipping through my photos and personal things. Nothing would come of it but it can be embarrassing to think of someone reading your iMessage conversations out of context.

I felt uneasy when I had to leave my phone with Apple to be repaired. They're just normal people that I'll likely never see in my life again. But my phone contains a personal diary and conversations that I don't care for others to see.
 
flash84x said:
Ugh, I'd stick with a passcode before doing that. TouchID is fast but it's not THAT fast.

----------



Privacy advocate, perhaps?

I've never been arrested. But I don't want random people (cops included) flipping through my photos and personal things. Nothing would come of it but it can be embarrassing to think of someone reading your iMessage conversations out of context.

I felt uneasy when I had to leave my phone with Apple to be repaired. They're just normal people that I'll likely never see in my life again. But my phone contains a personal diary and conversations that I don't care for others to see.
Click to expand...

You obviously have heard any of the stories about Apple repair techs downloading all the pics from from peoples phone for "personal use." Apple can hire scum too so you should have a reason to be cautious. I have never had to leave a phone with Apple, but If I did, I would back it up and erase it first.
 
This is a very interesting case.

Does anyone know what compelled Apple to make you enter your passcode instead of Touch ID after a reboot? Could it possibly be some reason like this?

Very interested to find out the reasoning behind it.
 
eac25 said:
Not to diminish your point, but let's work this out: go to jail for contempt of court, or go to jail for murder.... hmmm....;)
Click to expand...
It is unlikely defendant will be let out of jail until he complies with the subpoena, so the difference would be jail versus prison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back