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No you shoot the LEG.
Just like you see in the movies, right?:rolleyes:

What happens when you hit the femoral artery and the person bleeds out before you even know there's a life threatening problem? Your goal was obviously to wound him but instead you accidentally killed him. Hello manslaughter.

If you pull a firearm you do so to kill. Period.


Lethal
 
1) Shooting armed robbers isn't considered "tricky" to Texas juries,
2) We haven't adopted a Thief Civil Rights Bill here, in spite of the high percentage of lawyer politicians.


I think this all started when the question was asked what you did with a gun when someone is running away with your stuff. In that situation, whether they are armed or not, you would have to be in fear of your life to be justified in shooting/killing them. If they are running away, would you really shoot them in the back? Thief Civil Rights or not, that would be hard to defend.
 
This is turning from a Craigslist safety thread to a debate on the morals of shooting a robber...
 
No, we can talk about whatever we decide to.

Whoa hold your horses there Jerry. My point like the poster above was its going a little off track and now doesn’t even reflect the original topic. An apple forum isn’t really the best place to discuss gun crime is it really?

The OP stated his point and it should be kept on track ideally. You want to post about the morals of gun crime im sure there are plenty of message boards for it but at a guess this isn’t one of them
 
There's some seriously pretentious people out there who think this is the buyer's fault.

Blaming the victim is easy to do.

I've met up with literally around 100 people in the past decade of Craigslist dealings and have never encountered a robber. However, I live in Vancouver, and the crime rate here is significantly lower than Shreveport!
 
Blaming the victim is easy to do.

I've met up with literally around 100 people in the past decade of Craigslist dealings and have never encountered a robber. However, I live in Vancouver, and the crime rate here is significantly lower than Shreveport!

also in vancouver. And i have the same experience, I'm glad i don't have to carry a gun around to protect my life and my $100 ipod from potential robbers :)
 
Blaming the victim is easy to do.

There's a big difference between blaming the victim and calling attention to poor choices made by the victim.

We live in the real world; there are people out there ready and waiting for an opportunity to do awful things to other people. It's foolishly idealistic to think otherwise.

Each of us bears a responsibility to avoid doing stupid stuff that creates that opportunity. When someone abdicates that responsibility, it should be pointed out as a reminder to others.
 
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deeddawg said:
Blaming the victim is easy to do.

There's a big difference between blaming the victim and calling attention to poor choices made by the victim.

We live in the real world; there are people out there ready and waiting for an opportunity to do awful things to other people. It's foolishly idealistic to think otherwise.

Each of us bears a responsibility to avoid doing stupid stuff that creates that opportunity. When someone abdicates that responsibility, it should be pointed out as a reminder to others.

^^^I don't think it can be said better than this.^^^
 
I guess craigslist is like free online shopping for criminals, with free shipping! They just find an item they like and ask to have it brought to their house.

I might have to post this on slickdeals!:D
 
1) Shooting armed robbers isn't considered "tricky" to Texas juries,
2) We haven't adopted a Thief Civil Rights Bill here, in spite of the high percentage of lawyer politicians.

I am not sure that anyone would want to put himself in a position of relying on twelve Texans as the only thing standing between him and a lengthy jail term. The jury has to rule on the question of whether the defendant was "reasonable" in believing that it was necessary to kill someone who was running away from him after having stolen a mobile phone, and also that either the phone couldn't be recovered in any way other than by killing the thief, or that any other attempt to get the phone back would have exposed him to death or serious injury. And if the theft takes place--even at night--in a mall, a coffee shop, or under videotape surveillance, it's not difficult to argue that there were non-lethal alternatives to recovery.

Even assuming you were fortunate enough to get acquitted, the effect on your life of having to stand trial for homicide, posting bail, paying a lawyer to defend you, and missing work, is not inconsequential. Nor is the stress of knowing that your entire future, and that of your family, depends upon twelve people who couldn't figure out how to avoid jury duty. And then there is the loss of privacy while the 24-hour news channels debate whether you are a hero or just another macho man looking for an excuse to use his gun on someone. It will be a long time before you are again anyone but "that guy who killed the kid who took his phone".

Plus, of course, just the first meeting with your criminal defense lawyer will cost more than a new phone.

Look, this is the internet, and there's nothing wrong with exaggerating to make a point, or just to relieve a little of the frustration we all feel about dealing with the threat of crime, and I think we all understand that. But no one should ever get the idea that shooting a gun at another human being is a trivial matter.
 
Regardless of what the law says, I would not want to be responsible for using deadly force over a $200 item. If you are not in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death, you have no business even thinking about drawing a weapon, much less using it.

Anyone who thinks its a good idea to shoot at someone because they are running of with a piece of your property needs to have their head examined.

AGREED!!!
 
Some people in this thread are so naive.

it is IN NO WAY the victim's fault. It would be his fault if he taunted them, or did something to provoke/cause the crime. He wanted to purchase an item, legal, and went to the seller's home upon request, legal, and was robbed, not legal in any way.

Because some scum thugs decided to point a gun at them and rob them is the fault OF THE ROBBERS.


People claiming it is the victim's fault are absolutely insane and make me sick. See if something like this happens to you - wonder how quick your tune will change.

unbelievable.
 
Some people in this thread are so naive.

[...] He wanted to purchase an item, legal, and went to the seller's home upon request, legal, and was robbed, not legal in any way.

I agree with your first point, but I suspect we differ in terms of who is naive.

There are some things that are completely legal that are also completed stupid. This category includes meeting with a complete stranger at a trailer park in the middle of the night with $600 cash in hand.

The robbery was avoidable if the victim had utilized a little bit of common sense. Did the victim deserve to be robbed? Of course not. Did he set himself up for the robbery? Definitely.
 
I agree with your first point, but I suspect we differ in terms of who is naive.

There are some things that are completely legal that are also completed stupid. This category includes meeting with a complete stranger at a trailer park in the middle of the night with $600 cash in hand.

The robbery was avoidable if the victim had utilized a little bit of common sense. Did the victim deserve to be robbed? Of course not. Did he set himself up for the robbery? Definitely.

It still does not make it is fault - that is my foremost (if not only) point. Yes many people would have turned right around - but there are quite a few that would go through with it like this individual did.

I had a friend who lived in a trailer park while I was growing up. The place had a stigma, but people living there were incredibly nice. It is the same with any situation - you can say "oh they live in newark? Im not going there to sell or buy something" just as well as you can say "i grew up in newark and everyone I met was courteous, kind and helpful"

Using a stigma for a location is not a reason to automatically think that it is a terrible situation - and that is the situation for this person.

The issue still remains - the people saying it is his/her fault are naive and ignorant and would immediately change their opinion if they were in the situation. It makes me so angry to see people that would simply post such ignorant dribble online because they can.
 
First off, I'm happy to hear that it sounds like nobody was physically hurt by the crime.

And secondly, the darker, humorous side of me thinks these crooks are freaking masterminds to have successfully pulled this off!
 
Using a stigma for a location is not a reason to automatically think that it is a terrible situation - and that is the situation for this person.

The issue still remains - the people saying it is his/her fault are naive and ignorant and would immediately change their opinion if they were in the situation. It makes me so angry to see people that would simply post such ignorant dribble online because they can.

First, any intelligent person will realize there are exceptions. I've known many people who've lived in trailer parks and agree with your statement. At the same time, any intelligent person would also admit that when you stack up a set of probabilities towards a particular outcome, you cannot be surprised when that outcome happens.

I say the person abdicated the responsibility of using good judgement and should not be surprised that this happened. Others would say it was his fault; I suggest they're using a shorthand for the same sentiment.

I will stand as a counterexample for your second point. Had I been the victim, I would be the very first to stand up and take responsibility for my stupid choices that led to the robbery. It would have been my fault in as much as I entered into a high risk situation when I could have easily chosen to do otherwise.
 
First, any intelligent person will realize there are exceptions. I've known many people who've lived in trailer parks and agree with your statement. At the same time, any intelligent person would also admit that when you stack up a set of probabilities towards a particular outcome, you cannot be surprised when that outcome happens.

I say the person abdicated the responsibility of using good judgement and should not be surprised that this happened. Others would say it was his fault; I suggest they're using a shorthand for the same sentiment.

I will stand as a counterexample for your second point. Had I been the victim, I would be the very first to stand up and take responsibility for my stupid choices that led to the robbery. It would have been my fault in as much as I entered into a high risk situation when I could have easily chosen to do otherwise.

To each is own then - I wanted to post my opinion simply because of how angry I felt over people posting "oh he deserved it" and other bs over crimes like this (and even worse, crimes ending in death of the victim)

Yes, people should execute better judgment, but honestly - with the amount of stupid people in the world, assuming that everyone has the ability to assess their surroundings in real time is pretty blind.

Either way, my point was posted.
 
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mrathee said:
Some people in this thread are so naive.

it is IN NO WAY the victim's fault. It would be his fault if he taunted them, or did something to provoke/cause the crime. He wanted to purchase an item, legal, and went to the seller's home upon request, legal, and was robbed, not legal in any way.

Because some scum thugs decided to point a gun at them and rob them is the fault OF THE ROBBERS.


People claiming it is the victim's fault are absolutely insane and make me sick. See if something like this happens to you - wonder how quick your tune will change.

unbelievable.

mrathee, I think we're getting lost in semantics here (or maybe not), but there is a difference IMHO between this robbery being the victim's fault and this robbery being possibly avoidable with more common sense on the victim's part.

I like to use fuzzy math for this:

Responsibility for this Robbery:
Robbers: 100%
Victim: ~25%

In other words, the robbery suspects, if convicted, should serve 100% of the sentence allotted to this crime. No excuses, period.

The victim should be fully compensated, rehabilitated, and then sent to a class that teaches some damn street sense.
 
False.

I have a gun in my pocket.

I meet someone from craigslist under less than ideal circumstances.

They point a gun at me and tell me to give them my stuff.

I shoot.

This isn't about property once they point a gun at you, this is about feeling like your life is in danger. There are plenty of situations where they will rob you and then kill you so you can't file a report or identify them. If you're armed, you'd be a fool to not shoot if a hood rat is pointing a gun at you.

The bottom line is that once they point the gun at me, they run the risk of having one pointed right back, and trust me, I won't be making demands or orders - it will be point and shoot.

LOL! It goes without saying that you've never been anywhere CLOSE to in this situation before. Have you run the numbers involved with the travel time between his extended index finger and the trigger vs. your travel time from your pocket to pointing at his head/abdomen? Have fun getting murdured while you fumble to get your weapon out of your "pocket". Natural selection at it's best...
 
First off, I'm happy to hear that it sounds like nobody was physically hurt by the crime.

And secondly, the darker, humorous side of me thinks these crooks are freaking masterminds to have successfully pulled this off!

How does that make you a mastermind? You tell someone you have an item that costs a significant amount of money and then rob them when they show up to purchase it. Yeahhhhh real geniuses there.
 
LOL! Why did it matter that they were black??!

I think the guy was not thinking correctly.

If someone told me to meet then on the 6500 block of Crenshaw blvd in LA at there house. I would NOT do it, i dont care what time of day it is. Thats just common sense.
 
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