Crazy to buy a 2013?

[thefredelement]

I've recently sold my 4,1 and am really trying to hold out for a Mac Pro refresh. I've been mostly alright using my Mac Book but am starting to dislike it. I kind of talked myself into using my Mac Book and not putting anymore money into the 4,1...

I was going to get a refurb 2013 but only if I could use Apple Pay in store to get a Discover card promotion that would have ended up giving me 20% as cash back - that doesn't look it's going to be able to happen and I'm having a hard time buying a regular refurb with 10% cash back for a machine with an e5 v2 - though they remain relatively current at the moment, especially price wise with the price of the 2013 Mac Pros.

If Apple stays anything like their past then I would expect a release to be around March of 2016 at the earliest - though who really knows. In any event, I'm not sure I can hold out that long.

I bought the 4,1 in 2012 and kind of would like to be at the current curve with the next refresh, but I use my Macs to make a living so I'm not sure how feasible that is - do you think I'll take a huge bath on the value of 2013 bought today when a refresh occurs?

I'd rather have the 8 core, but think the 6 core is less risky (value wise) and maybe even a potential candidate for a 10 core upgrade at some point if a 2016 refresh doesn't happen until Q4 or even slips until 2017. I'd probably even do the quad core but I can't find one with D700s, being as the GPUs are the only non upgradable component I'd prefer to get D700s and workout the rest.

What do you think? I think and talk myself into circles with this stuff.

 

[ScottishCaptain]

How many threads do you need to start about this?

You should have stuck with your 4,1. I'd recommend a 5,1 over a 2013 Mac Pro, just because the processors are easy to upgrade and you can jam a relatively current GPU in there (because it actually has PCI-e slots that run at 16x speed). Note that the dual CPU board for the 5,1 takes standard CPUs with the lids on them (whereas the dual CPU 4,1 does not).

In any case, you're making things way too complicated. If the current offerings from Apple do not fit your requirements, you cannot assume that they will offer you something in the future that does. There is talk of the Mac Pro being discontinued entirely, and I don't doubt that could happen for even a second.

If you need a more powerful system now, and you don't want to buy a 5,1, then I'd suggest looking at a Hackintosh instead. Or flat out transitioning to Windows (probably Windows 7).

-SC

 

[thefredelement]

How many threads do you need to start about this?

You should have stuck with your 4,1. I'd recommend a 5,1 over a 2013 Mac Pro, just because the processors are easy to upgrade and you can jam a relatively current GPU in there (because it actually has PCI-e slots that run at 16x speed). Note that the dual CPU board for the 5,1 takes standard CPUs with the lids on them (whereas the dual CPU 4,1 does not).

In any case, you're making things way too complicated. If the current offerings from Apple do not fit your requirements, you cannot assume that they will offer you something in the future that does. There is talk of the Mac Pro being discontinued entirely, and I don't doubt that could happen for even a second.

If you need a more powerful system now, and you don't want to buy a 5,1, then I'd suggest looking at a Hackintosh instead. Or flat out transitioning to Windows (probably Windows 7).

-SC

Geez, sorry for posting here about buying a MP . My other thread was comparing a 2013 MP to a 2015 iMac.

The 4,1 is obsolete and therefore I couldn't get any replacement parts if needed. It was also a losing proposition value wise both in terms of holding onto it and in terms of upgrading it.

I write software using Xcode so I can't switch to Windows.

The 2013 nMP, an 8 core, probably fits my needs nicely - I just don't want to get fleeced value wise so I'm attempting to solicit opinions as far as value and if it's "crazy" to buy a refurb 2013? I've been trying to research, which seems more like trying my hand at fortune telling, and my only thoughts are once the e5 v4 is in circulation the cost of the 2013 Mac Pro may be out of line with what the e5 v2 is worth.

 

[Draeconis]

The 4,1 is obsolete and therefore I couldn't get any replacement parts if needed. It was also a losing proposition value wise both in terms of holding onto it and in terms of upgrading it.

The 2009 Mac Pro (MacPro4,1) is still currently supported, and still qualifies for hardware repair/replacement parts.

The 2008 Mac Pro (MacPro3,1) is now vintage, but from what you've said you don't own that one.

It's only really lost its value if it no longer can perform the functions you require. Can't say that's true of my 5,1, but that's personal preference.

I think you shouldn't have backed yourself into a corner by selling the 4,1. I'd have kept it until Apple released the new model, and gone from there.

 

[filmak]

If you are in a great need for a Mac pro right now and you want a warranty buy the nMP.
It is completely unknown if and when a new model will show up, of course there are some indications in os x for something new coming but it's just an unconfirmed rumor.
Waiting a couple of months to see what will show up, is also very wise right now, if you can wait...

 

[ScottishCaptain]

Geez, sorry for posting here about buying a MP . My other thread was comparing a 2013 MP to a 2015 iMac.

The 4,1 is obsolete and therefore I couldn't get any replacement parts if needed. It was also a losing proposition value wise both in terms of holding onto it and in terms of upgrading it.

I write software using Xcode so I can't switch to Windows.

The 2013 nMP, an 8 core, probably fits my needs nicely - I just don't want to get fleeced value wise so I'm attempting to solicit opinions as far as value and if it's "crazy" to buy a refurb 2013? I've been trying to research, which seems more like trying my hand at fortune telling, and my only thoughts are once the e5 v4 is in circulation the cost of the 2013 Mac Pro may be out of line with what the e5 v2 is worth.

Eh?

The 4,1 is still supported by El Capitan. Most of the major parts are still available for replacement via GSX, and even if they weren't, you could still source them all online quite easily. It's not like the 4,1 was a rare machine or anything.

No matter what you do, you're going to be overpaying for that machine, especially considering the antiquated graphics cards. I would just chalk that up to a cost of doing business with Apple products, and get on with life. Worst case, Apple releases a new system, and you sell your current one for a few thousand bucks and upgrade. If you need a new system now, I don't see why you should bother waiting.

-SC

 

[h9826790]

If you really need it, then you are not crazy.

If you just want it, then yes, it's a bit crazy to buy it now (without big discount). In this case, I will wait for the new one. I have no idea when will it come, but I don't need it means I am not in rush anyway. I can wait.

 

[MacVidCards]

Values of 6,1 are going to plunge through the floorboards when 7,1 is a done deal.

I imagine lots of 6,1 owners feel like they are holding a hot potato. You really can't win the game without a buddy behind the doors in Cupertino.

Buy what you need and be done with the hand wringing.

 

[Arron Rouse]

What do you think? I think and talk myself into circles with this stuff.

Here's another option to add to your circles. Why not go out and buy a used 5,1 dual processor machine? If there's no nnMP for ages, you'll have an excellent machine while you wait. If a nnMP is released soon, the 5,1 will probably still be worth about what you paid for it.

 

[thefredelement]

You guys are all right. I use these things for work and I have to attribute some devaluation to the business anyway. Plus it'd be kind of helpful to buy a big piece of gear before 2015 ends.

I'm going to go for it and take it from there, thanks everyone. Have a Happy Thanksgiving if that's the part of the world you're in .

 

[ActionableMango]

You keep mentioning the Discover Card promotion everywhere. It's clear that the promotion is affecting your decisions.

I hope it works out for you. I've been burned before with Discover cashback promotions not appearing in my account, and judging from the forums, I'm not the only one.

 

[goMac]

Yes, it would be a stupid decision at this point. The value proposition is ridiculous.

 

[Riwam]

I am not sure that if one day Apple brings a MP 7.1 the value of a present 6.1 will be soooo affected.
It is and will remain a wonderful piece of engineering although, like anything made by humans, it cannot be perfect.
However this will be the case with any coming machine.

Most reasonable people buy things when they need them.
For speculations the stock exchange is more suitable than IT appliances....
Ed

 

[thefredelement]

I got the Apple Store to mostly match B&H for the stock 6 core and was able to use Discover w/Apple Pay (I confirmed it with them via their live chat and saved it). It's a big deal for me b/c it equals 20% off. My whole thing was not paying full price for hardware this old. That being said...

This thing is awesome, i should have just gotten it instead of thinking about it so much. I will drop in 32 or 64GB of RAM and a larger SSD pretty rapidly and if needed go for the 10 core e5 v2.

Coming from dual quad 2.93Ghz Nehalem's this thing feels leaps and bounds ahead of it. I can't imagine what the v4 is going to do! Xcode compiles so fast right now, this is ridiculous.

 

[p.l]

Coming from dual quad 2.93Ghz Nehalem's this thing feels leaps and bounds ahead of it. I can't imagine what the v4 is going to do! Xcode compiles so fast right now, this is ridiculous.

I told you that in your last thread, Good to hear your happy... Finally


Also look at the 2687w V2 its an 8 core at 3.4 stock. Thats my next cpu upgrade.

 

[thefredelement]

I told you that in your last thread, Good to hear your happy... Finally


Also look at the 2687w V2 its an 8 core at 3.4 stock. Thats my next cpu upgrade.

Lol, it's a big deal and big decision. Certainly not one I wanted to rush or make a poor choice with and I appreciate everyone's feedback. That Xeon looks like a beast.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

The price of those components or equivalent have dropped a lot since 2013. If you buy now Apple is ripping you off worse than they were 2 years ago. Don't give them that satisfaction otherwise they will keep treating their users as 'brainless morons to feed shareholders'

 

[goMac]

The price of those components or equivalent have dropped a lot since 2013. If you buy now Apple is ripping you off worse than they were 2 years ago. Don't give them that satisfaction otherwise they will keep treating their users as 'brainless morons to feed shareholders'

That's the real problem. They're selling a $1500 (at best) machine for $3000.

 

[thefredelement]

I got it for under 3k (when all the cash back stuff is done) so I'm pretty happy with that. I got a little over 1k for my cMP, so if a new MP comes out and I sell this or just choose to upgrade it - either way I'm pretty stoked.

I'd say given the relatively still high price of the e5 v2 I'm ok with it right now from a value point of view. Also it seems the 2nd hand market doesn't support the $1500 worth of hardware statement, however it was devaluing what I had previously.

 

[ixxx69]

This thing is awesome, i should have just gotten it instead of thinking about it so much.

It's a great computer. I know you would think from reading most of the posts around here that the nMP is a POS that can barely keep up with an iPad.

I'm sure you're appreciatative of everyone's advice here, so please don't feel like I'm trying to speak on your behalf, but the reason most of the comments are so antagonistic and negative toward your thread is this sub-forum is dominated by people who hate the nMP and resent anyone who wants one or is happy with theirs, and attempt to browbeat them into thinking they're stupid for considering it at all.

No need to defend your purchase to anyone here. Enjoy your new computer!

 

[Riwam]

It's a great computer. I know you would think from reading most of the posts around here that the nMP is a POS that can barely keep up with an iPad.

I'm sure you're appreciatative of everyone's advice here, so please don't feel like I'm trying to speak on your behalf, but the reason most of the comments are so antagonistic and negative toward your thread is this sub-forum is dominated by people who hate the nMP and resent anyone who wants one or is happy with theirs, and attempt to browbeat them into thinking they're stupid for considering it at all.

No need to defend your purchase to anyone here. Enjoy your new computer!

***
My compliments for these lines!
Very true and very reasonable words.
I agree entirely with ixxx69 and am proud of my nMP although I will never pretend it is perfect and acknowledge it was expensive.
Still a wonderful device every owner has very good reasons to enjoy.
Ed

 

[Riwam]

Now that you finally own your MP 6.1 may I know if it is El Capitan what you are using?
If so, does everything work OK?

I will explain why I ask.
My MP 6.1 came with Mavericks (before I had a MP 5.1 2010).
I cloned my previous apps and data to the new Mac and it run fine.
After about a year OSX 10.10 came.
I updated to Yosemite and everything continued to work OK.
No Kernel Panics, no other bugs, just very small bugs very seldom and next time everything was again fine.

When El Capitan came I waited 3 weeks and considered that now upgrading to it was not rushing too fast.
I was wrong.
The system would not shut down. Only cutting power supply (the On-Off button) allowed me to finish any computer session

I was however cautious enough before the upgrade to make a booting Yosemite clone drive in an external USB HDD.
That allowed me to boot from it and by cloning back (a downgrade) recover a working computer which normally shuts down.

Therefore I am curious to know how other owners of the Late 2013 MP manage when they use El Capitan (together with other software as usual).
Thank you very much in advance!
Ed

 

[996085]

It's a great computer. I know you would think from reading most of the posts around here that the nMP is a POS that can barely keep up with an iPad.

I'm sure you're appreciatative of everyone's advice here, so please don't feel like I'm trying to speak on your behalf, but the reason most of the comments are so antagonistic and negative toward your thread is this sub-forum is dominated by people who hate the nMP and resent anyone who wants one or is happy with theirs, and attempt to browbeat them into thinking they're stupid for considering it at all.

No need to defend your purchase to anyone here. Enjoy your new computer!

I don't recall seeing people say anything of the sort. The nMP is a nice piece of equipment for what it is. And that's the problem...what it is is not what it was and there are a lot of people who wanted an updated version of what it was. That's the objection I see to the nMP...not that it isn't a nice piece of gear.

 

[Riwam]

I don't recall seeing people say anything of the sort. The nMP is a nice piece of equipment for what it is. And that's the problem...what it is is not what it was and there are a lot of people who wanted an updated version of what it was. That's the objection I see to the nMP...not that it isn't a nice piece of gear.

**********
Not entirely true!

There are some users who consistently laughed at it with all kind of arguments from the "trash can" looks, to supposedly "already old hardware on release" and of course with the "overprized" accusation.
For instance AidenShaw, a user with a lot of technical computer knowledge, has repeatedly called in this forum the new MacPro 6.1 a "New MiniMac" and did not miss an opportunity to show what a failure, according to him, the Late 2013 MP actually is...

As to the "updated" argument, as soon as it was availble with short delivery time, about in May 2014, threads began in this forum about a "soon newly updated nMP", which was supposed to be released "any minute now" or "very soon, next month"...

Those threads never stoppod until this very day.

Reasonable people buy what they need - when they need it.
There will always be newer things with additional features after a certain time.
Waiting for them is the best pretext found for people looking for reasons
not to take any decision.
Ed

 

[996085]

**********
Not entirely true!

There are some users who consistently laughed at it with all kind of arguments from the "trash can" looks, to supposedly "already old hardware on release" and of course with the "overprized" accusation.
For instance AidenShaw, a user with a lot of technical computer knowledge, has repeatedly called in this forum the new MacPro 6.1 a "New MiniMac" and did not miss an opportunity to show what a failure, according to him, the Late 2013 MP actually is...

As to the "updated" argument, as soon as it was availble with short delivery time, about in May 2014, threads began in this forum about a "soon newly updated nMP", which was supposed to be released "any minute now" or "very soon, next month"...

Those threads never stoppod until this very day.

Reasonable people buy what they need - when they need it.
There will always be newer things with additional features after a certain time.
Waiting for them is the best pretext found for people looking for reasons
not to take any decision.
Ed

AidenShaw is not too far off with his characterization of the nMP being a New MiniMac. It shares more in common with the Mac Mini then it does the previous Mac Pro design. As for it looking like a trash can well...it does. And it already utilized old hardware when released (I believe the graphics cards are of the same technology level as PC cards pre-dating the nMP by a couple of years). It's certainly old technology today given there is newer technology available.Over priced can be subjective but when you compare what you received with the cMP compared to the nMP for the same money one can see the cMP offered a better value (PCIe slots aren't free along with the power and cooling and optical drives). I am constantly amazed at how Apple can remove things from their computers, keep the price the same, and you have people defending Apple to the death.

With that said the examples you've given are wrt the cMP. These are failings the nMP has when compared the previous version. The nMP is a nice system. I've never seen anyone call it a POS (feel free to provide a quote to that effect). Yes many people have criticized it but that criticism comes based on what the nMP is instead of what it was.