creating a Ventura bootable volume on external

[Gregg2]

I found this terminal command on osxdaily.com:
sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/VenturaUSB --nointeraction

(where VenturaUSB is the name of the target volume - which I changed to match what I have named it) But Terminal gave me this error:
sudo: /Applications/Install macOS Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia: command not found

The error omits the \ and space after macOS which I had entered.

I discovered an annoying thing about Terminal. Why won't it let you highlight and replace a typo? Instead I used backspace to get back to my error, which in one case was typing "suco"!

*****

Secondary question: How do you select that copy of the OS as the startup volume? In the old System Preferences, you went to the Startup Disk pane…

 

[Gregg2]

I found this terminal command on osxdaily.com:
sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/VenturaUSB --nointeraction

(where VenturaUSB is the name of the target volume - which I changed to match what I have named it) But Terminal gave me this error:
sudo: /Applications/Install macOS Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia: command not found

The error omits the \ and space after macOS which I had entered.

I discovered an annoying thing about Terminal. Why won't it let you highlight and replace a typo? Instead I used backspace to get back to my error, which in one case was typing "suco"!

*****

Secondary question: How do you select that copy of the OS as the startup volume? In the old System Preferences, you went to the Startup Disk pane…

Answer: It's under General now.

 

[bogdanw]

Apple Support - Create a bootable installer for macOS
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

Ventura

sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Ventura.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume

Use the bootable installer​

Determine whether you're using a Mac with Apple silicon, then follow the appropriate steps:

Apple silicon​

1. Plug the bootable installer into a Mac that is connected to the internet and compatible with the version of macOS you're installing. (A bootable installer doesn't download macOS from the internet, but it does require an internet connection to get firmware and other information specific to the Mac model.)
2. Turn on the Mac and continue to hold the power button until you see the startup options window, which shows your bootable volumes.
3. Select the volume containing the bootable installer, then click Continue.
4. When the macOS installer opens, follow the onscreen installation instructions.

Intel processor​

1. Plug the bootable installer into a Mac that is connected to the internet and compatible with the version of macOS you're installing. (A bootable installer doesn't download macOS from the internet, but it does require an internet connection to get firmware and other information specific to the Mac model.)
2. Turn on your Mac, then immediately press and hold the Option (Alt) key.
3. Release the Option key when you see a dark screen showing your bootable volumes.
4. Select the volume containing the bootable installer. Then click the onscreen arrow or press Return.
   If you can't start up from the bootable installer, make sure that Startup Security Utility is set to allow booting from external or removable media.
5. Choose your language, if prompted.
6. Select Install macOS (or Install OS X) from the Utilities window, then click Continue and follow the onscreen instructions.

 

[Gregg2]

Thanks. I knew you'd be on it, but so quickly, wow!
Working on it from another angle, the AppStore…

 

[HDFan]

How do you select that copy of the OS as the startup volume? In the old System Preferences, you went to the Startup Disk pane…

1. M1 or intel?

2. No reason do do any of that above if you just want a bootable volume rather than an installer. Download the Ventura installer. Wipe external media and then install. Just did it with no problems.

3. Startup preference is the same in Ventura, just select from the View menu.

 

[Gregg2]

Apple Support - Create a bootable installer for macOS
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

Using the Terminal command you provided from that link returned the following message:
APFS disks may not be used as bootable install media.

I did a Find for APFS on that page, and it was not found.

I suppose that since my external drive is apparently APFS, this is why my attempt to install Ventura on it from the App Store failed as well.

I think I'll need to start by erasing the external drive, then reformatting it to Mac OS Extended. I created 3 partitions on the drive. Do I need to erase each, one at a time? Or can I select the "top level" drive and Erase?

 

[Gregg2]

3. Startup preference is the same in Ventura, just select from the View menu.

M1

However, I do not see Startup Disk in the View Menu drop down. I assumed it would be from Finder, but it's not there. So where do I find it?

 

[DeltaMac]

Startup Disk, in Ventura, is in your System Settings/General tab.
Or, as HDFan suggested, when you are in System Settings, you can find Startup Disk in the list under the View menu.

 

[robo-robot]

Terminal tip: press the up arrow key on your keyboard to recall the last command you typed. That's about the best way to fix typos that I know.

 

[Gregg2]

I just went ahead and did what I thought would work, and it did. (used the up arrow key as suggested)

Terminal reported:
Copying essential files...
Copying the macOS RecoveryOS...
Making disk bootable...

All is well.

 

[Gregg2]

But now I'm getting mixed messages.

I checked to find out how much space I would need on a volume to make it bootable, and the answer was minimum 14GB formatted as Mac OS Extended. So I created a 15GB volume, then executed the above Terminal command.

I Shutdown, then held the power button until prompted for options for the Startup Disk, and selected the newly created Install macOS Ventura disk. When I clicked continue, a message came up telling me that the disk is not APFS. Of course it's not APFS! The instructions I found said to make it Mac OS Extended.

So I rebooted to my hard drive, and opened the Install macOS Ventura volume. In there, of course, was the Installer. But, when executing from there, I got the same message about it not being APFS.

I did notice that the Installer leaves only 1.18GB on the new bootable volume. If it's supposed to install Ventura on that volume, it's not going to fit.

How do I deal with these things?

 

[DeltaMac]

Sounds like you are making a bootable installer.(?)
If you are then booting to that installer, you would need to choose "Reinstall macOS".
That will then launch the installer, where you will get to select another volume as the destination for the install.
And, as you are booted to the installer volume (which needs 13GB-14GB of space, just for the installer) you have to also choose the destination volume for your install.

note: the macOS installer will automatically change the format of the destination volume to APFS. You can begin by formatting that destination volume as APFS, or you could also format as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). The choice is yours when you format. Again, if the installer encounters a destination volume formatted Mac OS Extended, it will automatically change that to APFS during the install. I did just test this on latest Ventura installer last week, and the change to APFS happened during the install.
But, probably better to begin with APFS, as you are erasing anyway. Be sure to erase with the GUID scheme, and then choose either Mac OS Extended, or (maybe better at this point) APFS, to prepare your destination drive for the macOS install.

Bottom line, it sounds like you are trying to install on that 15GB volume, which is great when you a making the installer, and that is about the space that needs. But, when you are booted to the installer, and you begin the macOS install, look for the screen where it asks you to select a destination for the install. The volume should be considerably larger than around 15GB, and will be the volume that you want to use for the new system install.
(hint: the volume you want will NOT be named Install macOS Ventura, so choose a different volume. The space available will be shown for each volume that might be available to you.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Try making a bootable installer with the excellent free MDS app by TwoCanoes.

Bootable installers absolutely have to be created on HFS+ volumes.

Bootable Inatallers do not show in Settings > General > startup disk... at least not on silicon macs. You have to shut down and press and hold the power button to get start up options.

 

[Gregg2]

Ok, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, so I'll explain why I've been trying to do this. I want to be able to boot from an external drive so that I can run diagnostics on my internal hard drive. On this bootable drive, ideally, I'd also install a copy of the Utility app to run those with.

It seems like there are a few hoops to jump through from the responses above, putting the OS installer on one separate volume, then installing the OS on yet another one. Is there a simpler, more straight forward way (fewer steps) to do what I want?

 

[DeltaMac]

Here's what I would do:
External storage device: I would use a m.2 NVME drive. If you have just a few jobs for that drive (testing, maybe a speedtest of some kind), then you wouldn't need much space, maybe begin with a 250GB device (in real life, those would range from 240GB to 256GB, depends on manufacturer
Make two partitions on the drive - one for the system installer: 16GB is good. The other partition would be the rest of the drive. I have a 256GB NVME that would work really well for that, so that would be left with about 240GB for the bootable system - your various testing apps, I suppose. You can buy 256GB drives for less than $25 these days, and an external enclosure can be less than $10, so possible to make your own boot system + installer, both on the same device for less than $35.
Create the bootable macOS installer on the small (16GB) partition. Then, boot to that installer, and install your system on the larger partition.
"Hoops to jump through"? You need an installer, and you need a volume to use as the destination for that installer. Both the installer AND your useful system can be on the same device, (separate partitions), should you want to do it that way.
I do similar a few times a week, and it's pretty straightforward.
I do a lot of testing, so I have an external drive, which has 14 different bootable systems, from Leopard (OS X 10.5.8) to Ventura (macOS 13.3.1), all on the same drive. These are not installers, but are individually bootable full installs of each operating system. I have a variety of testing apps on some of those systems, so I can do some testing on virtually any Mac that I might see (at least those that are likely to still be useful.

 

[Mike Boreham]

You can install macOS onto external direct from Recovery. You don't have to do it with a bootable installer.

You can run Disk Utility First Aid from a bootable installer, which is your stated aim. You do not need to install macOS to do this.

For many years I used to have a separate "utilities" external for running DUFA, Diskwarrior, Techtool pointed at the internal. Since APFS the third party diagnostics all have to use fsck the same as Disk Utility First Aid, so nowadays I just use bootable installers as my diagnostic tool.

 

[HDFan]

Ok, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, so I'll explain why I've been trying to do this. I want to be able to boot from an external drive so that I can run diagnostics on my internal hard drive. On this bootable drive, ideally, I'd also install a copy of the Utility app to run those with.

It seems like there are a few hoops to jump through from the responses above, putting the OS installer on one separate volume, then installing the OS on yet another one. Is there a simpler, more straight forward way (fewer steps) to do what I want?

To just create a bootable drive just wipe the disk and install Ventura on it, as per my post #5. Boot from that drive then install and run your diagnostics. Done.

Not sure what you are saying in paragraph 2. If you just want a bootable disk then there is nothing else you need to do. But you are talking about putting an installer on a 2nd volume. If you have a bootable disk why do you want an installer? Conflicting information.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP asks:
"It seems like there are a few hoops to jump through from the responses above, putting the OS installer on one separate volume, then installing the OS on yet another one. Is there a simpler, more straight forward way (fewer steps) to do what I want?"

Why don't you just download SuperDuper and let it clone your internal drive to the external SSD?
Nothing could be simpler.

SD is free to use for this purpose. Get it here:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/mint/pepper/orderedlist/downloads/download.php?file=https://www.shirt-pocket.com/downloads/SuperDuper%21.dmg

If you don't want a lot of personal stuff (apps, files, etc.) on the clone -- just delete them once it's done.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
I've used SD to create a bootable clone using Monterey.
I'm not certain that it will work with Ventura. I don't use Ventura as a regular OS.
But still... for free... SD is worth a try.

 

[Gregg2]

Not sure what you are saying in paragraph 2. If you just want a bootable disk then there is nothing else you need to do. But you are talking about putting an installer on a 2nd volume. If you have a bootable disk why do you want an installer? Conflicting information.

Sorry. That would fall under "maybe I'm going about this the wrong way" which you quoted. Maybe where I got off track was finding that Terminal command which I thought would create a bootable volume. But, what it (also?) did was put a Ventura installer on that volume. If I don't need that to do what I set out to do, that's fine with me.

But I now have the Ventura installer on a partition of my external drive that is only 15GB. I want to boot from such a volume, and install TechTool Pro on it. I don't know how big the volume must be for that, or if I can even use this one if I enlarge it.

I could create another volume (big enough) and then when it's all set up, erase the volume with the installer on it and restore that space to another partition. Maybe it didn't need to go this way, but at this point that might be what I should do.

 

[Gregg2]

You can install macOS onto external direct from Recovery. You don't have to do it with a bootable installer.

You can run Disk Utility First Aid from a bootable installer, which is your stated aim. You do not need to install macOS to do this.

Alright, I used the Terminal command above and now have an installer on the external drive, but the partition it's on is barely big enough to hold that "file" although I believe that I can boot from that volume, and that you are saying I can "as is".

Perhaps I only need to enlarge the partition so that I can install TechTool Pro on it so that I can use that when I boot from this volume. I have some instructions from Micromat for doing that. But they say to boot to that volume, then download the TTP installer. To do that, I might need Safari on that volume, unless I can use the Safari that is on my hard drive.

I might just shelve this project.

 

[Gregg2]

@ Fishrrman, thanks for trying to be helpful. I'm not sure that's something I'd like to try.

 

[Fishrrman]

" Fishrrman, thanks for trying to be helpful. I'm not sure that's something I'd like to try."

(sigh)

If you have an external drive that's capable of holding the clone, what I suggested above in reply 18 is YOUR EASIEST solution.

Just TRY it, and within an hour (or whatever time it takes to create the clone) your problems may be solved.

I can boot my MacBook Pro 14" from my clone, and do whatever I need to do once so booted.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Alright, I used the Terminal command above and now have an installer on the external drive, but the partition it's on is barely big enough to hold that "file" although I believe that I can boot from that volume, and that you are saying I can "as is".

If you started with a 16GB HFS+ partition and the cresateinstallmedia Terminal process completed successfully then no reason why its shouldn't boot. Have you tried booting it?

Perhaps I only need to enlarge the partition so that I can install TechTool Pro on it so that I can use that when I boot from this volume. I have some instructions from Micromat for doing that. But they say to boot to that volume, then download the TTP installer. To do that, I might need Safari on that volume, unless I can use the Safari that is on my hard drive.

As I said in times past, Techtool, Diskwarrior, Drive Genius etc all had their own proprietary Directory repair and rebuild tools, so there was some point in having them. Since APFS they all have to use the same fsck routine as Disk Utility First Aid so I stopped buying them. (Diskwarrior is in slightly different situation as they don't claim compatibility with APFS like the others. It can still only rebuild an HFS+ volume)

You may not realise that a bootable installer can do much more than just install....it has many other functions including Disk Utility, which is why I have also stopped bothering with special external Utilities drives.

 

[HDFan]

Techtool, Diskwarrior, Drive Genius etc all had their own proprietary Directory repair and rebuild tools, so there was some point in having them. Since APFS they all have to use the same fsck routine as Disk Utility First Aid so I stopped buying them.

Techtool, for one, still has useful tools even if it can't repair APFS disks. You can do a APFS volume rebuild (directory rebuild and repair), check smart status, snapshot recovery, etc.

I could create another volume (big enough) and then when it's all set up, erase the volume with the installer on it and restore that space to another partition.

Why mess with multiple volumes unless they are just absolutely necessary? They just cause problems, as you found, when they run out of space. I have found no tools for APFS that allow you to resize them. Wipe the disk. Format as one volume. Install Ventura. Install Techtool. Done. Am I missing something?

 

[Mike Boreham]

Techtool, for one, still has useful tools even if it can't repair APFS disks. You can do a APFS volume rebuild (directory rebuild and repair), check smart status, snapshot recovery, etc.

Yes it does, and if these are worth the high cost to you go for it. SMART is probably the most worthwhile, but the much cheaper DriveDX does that better IMO.

Micromat is very adept at clouding the issue of APFS compatibility and sales material presents it as having full compatibility, but it doesn't. This Micromat article is the nearest I have seen to admitting this:

"Likewise, while the Volume Rebuild can repair many drives with volume structures problems, a full rebuild that reorganizes the volume structures can only be implemented once Apple provides further documentation.

It is important to note as well that Techtool Pro uses a low-level API to test, repair, rebuild, and defragment Mac OS Extended volumes. No such API yet exists for APFS, and it is unclear if Apple will make one available."

The lack of data from Apple is why Alsoft still doesn't offer APFS capability for Diskwarrior For the same tasks.