Current MBP chip design flaw

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by poldidak, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. poldidak macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Location:
    Stillwater, MN
    #1
    I just bought a refurb 2018 13" MBPt (i7 16GB 512), then saw Louis Rossman talking on YT about a serious design flaw to the graphics chip, which places a high voltage (backlight) pin directly next to a data line connected to the main CPU. Any voltage jump from the 40-50V line doesn't get siphoned off to ground, but instead could fry something else in the chain. He says the flaw has been in the design since the Touch Bar line was introduced.

    Has anyone heard stories about this happening? Obviously Rossman has seen several machines come through his shop that have suffered from this ill design. He indicates that prior to 2016 the chip in MBP had proper separation of high voltage lines from sensitive data lines.

    I'm reconsidering my purchase and considering returning it during the extended holiday period. I went through the 2011 graphic board failure with several machines to want a repeat bad experience with the new line.

     
  2. Ploki macrumors 68040

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    Jan 21, 2008
  3. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    Oct 27, 2009
    #3
    Seriously, watching his videos will make you paranoid.
     
  4. Ploki macrumors 68040

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    Jan 21, 2008
    #4
    Also these forums.
    I feel like a hypochondriac for tech whatever that is
     
  5. jsnuff1 macrumors 6502a

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    Oct 4, 2003
    Location:
    NY
    #5
    Lol, the only time this happens is when someone spills something which shorts those two pins and causes the damage.

    I would not call that a design flaw, since the connector is not "designed" to have liquid short it. Sure they could have separated the high voltage lines to keep the damage minimal if it DID short due to spills, but there is no reason to restricted your design choices to stuff like that.
     
  6. leman macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #6
    Rossman is an Apple hater that uses his technical skills and knowledge to defame Apple products at any opportunity, usually relying on a lie by omission. And since he is an electronics professional, he sounds very convincing to a layman. Not to mention that Youtube is his main source of income, and bashing Apple generates him tons of views.

    I cannot comment on his content since I lack the technical knowledge, but I have no trust whatsoever in the guy after I watched a video of his where he is directly manipulating the viewer (it was about USB3 5G WiFi interference). Also, some people more knowledgeable than me have discussed his videos in these very forums, pointing out that his stories tend to be rather one-sided.
     
  7. Howard2k macrumors 68000

    Howard2k

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    #7
    I watched the first 30 seconds or so. Guy sounds like a bit of a douche, I won't be contributing to his ad revenue.
     
  8. deadworlds macrumors 6502a

    deadworlds

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    #8
    He is a big douche.
     
  9. _Kiki_, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

    _Kiki_ macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    #9
    you are correct, 2016-2018 models are crappy, better buy something else, SSD is soldered, problem with coating on the screen, problematic keyboard, 2018 models have extra problems with T2 chip, the only bigger crap are laptops from Microsoft
    that's not true, Louis has a shop in Manhattan and main his income are Mac repairs and recovery data from PC, Macs or iPhones, this guy has a knowledge and skills like nobody on this forum
     
  10. Never mind macrumors regular

    Never mind

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    Dunedin, Florida
    #10
    What is your source for your statement that YouTube is his main source of income?
     
  11. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

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    Boston
    #11
    How is he guilty of defamation? While I'm not a fan of him, and I think he goes out of his way to disparage apple, much of what he says about MBP's design, and quality is backed up by real examples.
     
  12. Howard2k macrumors 68000

    Howard2k

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    Mar 10, 2016
    #12

    Really? You know the backgrounds of everyone on the forum? That's amazing. What does @Never mind do for work? What about @leman? That's an amazing party trick.
     
  13. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    Oct 27, 2009
    #13
    Yup, and I definitely agree with him and others about Apple's Nazi like repair policies.
     
  14. c0ppo macrumors 65816

    c0ppo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    #14
    Rossman does bash Apple a lot, no one is denying that. And it shows he's really not a fan of Apple.
    But in the quote below this what I'm posting you admit in having no knowledge, but call him a liar? Any evidence where he lied?

    Does Apple overcharge for repairs? Do butterfly keyboards fail like crazy? T2 kernel problems? Where is the lie?

    If anyone can challenge him, please, let that person do so. But it really seems that he is spot on. And since redesigned MBP fail a lot, well, let him bash apple, because they really do deserve it at this point.
     
  15. Howard2k macrumors 68000

    Howard2k

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    Mar 10, 2016
    #15
    This thread is full of win.
    The Nazi's had similar repair policies? Please cite.

    Thanks.
     
  16. BionicMan, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

    BionicMan Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    #16
    Not a flaw. Many manufactures do this with one cable. And as you can see, it's extra spaced away from it to protect those pins.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 17, 2018 ---
    They are separated. There is an extra gap between them.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 17, 2018 ---
    Agreed, any anyone who repairs Macs like he does gets to see all the failure points and has a right to complain about them. I would too if I had to repair all those all the time. I use to do what he did, and got out of it a long time ago.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 17, 2018 ---
    I don't see anyone going down to the level of the circuit repair like he does on this forum. It is rare to find someone who does that type of work these days. I've done it myself years ago (why I have a Electronics Engineering degree), but did I actually go into my field of work for that, nope. I went into IT.
     
  17. leman macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #17
    Sorry, you are right, I misspoke. Of course, I don't know how he makes his money. What I meant is that he has a youtube channel with 700k subscribers and he is churning new videos out at a rapid pace. This is some fairly substantial income. I would bet that its the main reason why he can afford doing circuit-level repair on laptops — usually its not done since its not worth the professional's time. And of course, its great advertisement for his repair shop.

    There is a subtle difference between lying directly and lying by omission (I claimed the later). He paints a very one-sided picture and since he is obviously an expert on his stuff you can't know as a layman how objective his story is since he will have points to argue. If you look at his channel, the message is very clear "Apple is crap", "Apple stuff is incompetent", yada yada. Which is funny, since he is making money by repairing Apple products.

    My primary reason for mistrusting him is a video he put out shortly after the TouchBar MBP introduction. In this video he makes fun — at length — of the laptop, showing that it drops WiFi when connected to a USB hard drive (a Dell XPS he used was working fine). If you watch that video as a layman, you get a very clear demonstration that Apple's design is crap and that the MBP is a piece of *** that only hipsters with too much disposable income would buy. However, what you don't learn is that the 5G WiFi/USB3 interference is a well documented, widespread issue that stems from incompatibilities in standards and affect all routers, hard drives, laptops etc. — it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I refuse to believe that Rossman — a computer repair professional — was not aware of this fact. By not disclosing this very crucial piece of information, and presenting the whole thing as if Apple is the only one suffering from the issue — well, thats the very definition of lie by omission.

    And anyway, if his story about FAILED DESIGN was correct, I am sure that these forums by now would be flooded by accounts of 2016+ MBPs randomly dying in large numbers. Ever heard about it something like that? Me neither. The only real problem with the 2016 design is that dirt tends to stick under the keyboard which increases the chance of keyboard failure. And its something that Apple has openly admitted and issues extended warranty for.
     
  18. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

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    Boston
    #18
    He does paint a one sided picture, but I'll say apple has done that as well. With his videos, he shows why something is failing, so he's not lying. There is no defamation as you allege, especially since he shows why its a bad design. I don't like him, and he's been beating the anti-apple drum to generate clicks, BUT what he is showing are actual short comings with apple design, apple policy and/or services. I don't watch him, and its not my cup of tea, but there's a difference between someone defaming another and someone pointing out shortcomings, and Rossman fits the latter imo.
     
  19. c0ppo macrumors 65816

    c0ppo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    #19
    He has points to argue, but he is lying?
    Sorry, but not buying that one at all. If he is lying, apple fans would be all over him with evidence that he is lying. As it is now, all you are doing is calling him a liar. Without any evidence.

    I'm not following rossman or watching his videos, but if what you say is true, then he is really stupid for doing that.

    Thank you for answering the question for me :)

    Only real problem? How about T2 chip issues? Not a problem?
    And the extended warranty only came after class action lawsuit. If it weren't for that lawsuit, you really think Apple would extend warranty? Me neither ;)

    And even extended warranty doesn't fix the issue, since Apple is replacing faulty keyboards with keyboards that will become faulty!

    And as far as dust goes, there is no evidence that only dust ruins the keyboard. I had multiple keyboard fails on my MBP. 2016/17 versions, 15". But not even one keyboard fail on MB12, and I used 2015 and 2017 version. My MBP is well taken care off, but my MB12 is used by me, my wife and even my kids sometime watch youtube on it (5 and 6 years old).

    If it were just the dust, well, then my MB12 keyboard would have more issues then MBP. But I didn't have any issues with MB12, but a lot of issues with MBP.

    And let me tell you, being without my MBP for 1-2 weeks isn't a joy.
    That's why I left Apple for now, that's why my company banned any further MBP purchases, and most of the pros I know left Apple as well. Because of keyboard.

    Us developers really do love our keyboards, and keyboard being the main input device is really important for pro work!
     
  20. LogicalApex macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    #20
    He is a repairman so he will have a repairman's opinion. That doesn't mean his opinion is 100% right or wrong it is just information from his perspective. An informed buyer wants information from his perspective to add to the pile of information they have to make informed buying and repair decisions.

    For example, ask an appliance repair guy what washing machine you should buy and you'll likely get a good explanation about why every one of them is flawed. After all, every time he deals with them he's dealing with the failure condition for that design decision. Especially since he focuses on Apple hardware he'll see a lot more failures of Apple hardware.

    Apple has constraints they are working against so there will be compromises in the machines they build. As a result, there will be flaws... Good to see him sharing what he's encountering.
     
  21. SDColorado macrumors 68030

    SDColorado

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    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #21
    I just went through that last week getting a furnace replaced. I called a couple of different companies to first get a second opinion on the diagnostic but also for a couple of competitive quotes. Everyone had their own opinions about why this brand was good and why this brand was bad and they would all go on and on about the shortcomings of the various brands. Trane does this wrong, Carrier does that wrong, Heil and Amana each do something else wrong. Apparently, Goodman can't do anything right because (a) because they are a budget model and (b) because they deal with replacing a great deal of them since they are common new construction installs.
     
  22. johannnn macrumors 65816

    johannnn

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    #22
    Check how many views he has per video. Do a search for revenue per view. Then do the math. I’m 100% he earns more from YouTube than having a random repair shop. Do I have proof? Of course not. But any layman can do simple math and come to the same conclusion.
     
  23. leman macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #23
    But that's exactly the thing, the information he offers tends to be very negative. It's very much possible to have an entertaining and educational youtube channel that shows people inner workings of various laptops and explain pros and contras of various designs (I'd like to watch that!). Rossman doesn't do that. His channel is all about why Apple is crap.

    --- Post Merged, Dec 18, 2018 ---
    Don't forget that ease guys usually have deals with companies so they would tend to praise certain models over others :) Finding unbiased information is rather difficult.
     
  24. SDColorado macrumors 68030

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
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    #24
    Not all, but there is no debating that the majority does bash Apple. He has occasionally taken other companies to task such as Microsoft, who he claims taught Apple everything they know about how to be heavy-handed in dealing with 3rd party repair and Samsung who he chided for ads that are critical of Apple when they do a worse job at it themselves.

    He has also given Apple at least some backhanded compliments, talking about some of the things he does like about them and saying he can understand the appeal that they have for a lot of people. But you do have to wade through a lot of his stuff to hear them :)

    That said, at least his critiques are coming from a technical and hands-on background of the products at the board level, so I wouldn't say he is the worst reviewer out there. That might be Austin Evens ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
     
  25. LogicalApex macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    #25
    His channel isn't one set to give you entertaining overviews of various laptop board designs. His channel is setup to cover interesting (to him) topics on repairs he's done to various Apple (and sometimes other) devices in technical detail. I am sure he veers negative in some part due to the heavy handed approach Apple takes to third party repair shops. So his interactions with Apple products are largely when they break and his interaction with Apple directly is largely negative due to Apple seeing him as an enemy.

    Apple has some serious shortcomings and hopefully any discussion of them with the Apple customer base will improve Apple for its customers. Likewise, Apple does some things very well and as a result they have some of the most loyal customers in the electronics industry.

    In part, due to his videos and this forum I added Apple Care to my MBP when I purchased it this year. How well this machine fares and how well Apple treats me as a customer will be the gauge by which I measure them. His videos give me a wider exposure, but I don't take them as gospel in any way on overall Apple reliability.
     

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