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Custom T-Shirt....is it legal?
- Thread starter Sdashiki
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Sdashiki said:
When I lived in Washington DC, there was an artist who would display his paintings at a local farmer's market every weekend... They were all portraits of Bert from Sesame Street. I'm pretty sure he made a decent living from this, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Jim Henson Productions or the C.T.W. couldn't shut him down any time they wanted.
You would do well to expand your repertoire beyond painting pictures of copyrighted cartoon characters.
Sigh.
Someone comes up to me and says I want a Simpsons painting.
WTF am I supposed to do, say no?
I dont think so.
When i say I am not painting and SELLING i mean I am not creating a body of work to sell.
Someone pays me, THEN i paint for them. They arent "buying" anything but my commission. I have ZERO completed paintings for sale, ever.
If people are going to rip me apart for painting for others who want me to paint for them, I dont know what to say.
Someone comes up to me and says I want a Simpsons painting.
WTF am I supposed to do, say no?
I dont think so.
When i say I am not painting and SELLING i mean I am not creating a body of work to sell.
Someone pays me, THEN i paint for them. They arent "buying" anything but my commission. I have ZERO completed paintings for sale, ever.
If people are going to rip me apart for painting for others who want me to paint for them, I dont know what to say.
Sdashiki said:
Basically yes, otherwise you risk exposing yourself to legal action.
Sdashiki said:
It makes no difference, if you are reproducing an image that is copyright, then the likelihood is, is that you're breaking the law.
Sdashiki said:
No one is ripping you apart, stop being so melodramatic.
Though that said... if I ask you to rob a bank for me (which I will of course obviously pay you for) and you give me all the proceeds, will you do that for me???
Nice sailboat from The Simpsons.
I'd probably pay you for that one for my office and Simpsons paraphernalia collection.
I'd probably pay you for that one for my office and Simpsons paraphernalia collection.
Look man, you have to stop taking it personally.
You asked if what you were doing is illegal.
The answer is YES.
Irrespective of your good intention, or who originally commissioned the work, or how much it cost you in time or money, or how much you're selling it for. It is still illegal.
Will you get caught? Probably not.
Is it stupid? Kinda.
Should you stop painting them? That's up to you.
But is it illegal nonetheless? Yes.
So is speeding. Speeding is absolutely, 100% against the law. It's right there in black and white. But I can't think of a single person who has never driven faster than the speed limit. I do it every day. Still doesn't make it legal. Just don't get caught.
This answer applies in the music space as well. If I ask you to make me a wedding video or DVD and I want Celine Dion in the background, unless you secure music rights with ASCAP, it is illegal. Heck if you even just PLAY Celine Dion music at your wedding banquet as background music for your slideshow, it is technically a public performance that is illegal without securing the appropriate rights.
But 99% of people I know have video slideshows with pop music in them. Heck, YouTube is crammed full of them.
Is it illegal? Yes.
Will people be prosecuted? Highly, highly unlikely. But it could happen.
Should you care? That's up to you.
You asked if what you were doing is illegal.
The answer is YES.
Irrespective of your good intention, or who originally commissioned the work, or how much it cost you in time or money, or how much you're selling it for. It is still illegal.
Will you get caught? Probably not.
Is it stupid? Kinda.
Should you stop painting them? That's up to you.
But is it illegal nonetheless? Yes.
So is speeding. Speeding is absolutely, 100% against the law. It's right there in black and white. But I can't think of a single person who has never driven faster than the speed limit. I do it every day. Still doesn't make it legal. Just don't get caught.
This answer applies in the music space as well. If I ask you to make me a wedding video or DVD and I want Celine Dion in the background, unless you secure music rights with ASCAP, it is illegal. Heck if you even just PLAY Celine Dion music at your wedding banquet as background music for your slideshow, it is technically a public performance that is illegal without securing the appropriate rights.
But 99% of people I know have video slideshows with pop music in them. Heck, YouTube is crammed full of them.
Is it illegal? Yes.
Will people be prosecuted? Highly, highly unlikely. But it could happen.
Should you care? That's up to you.
Sdashiki, this is copyright law we're talking about here. The stuff the RIAA and Disney thrives off of. Even whistling the Mickey Mouse Club theme song can get you a lawsuit.
Definitely illegal. Stupid law? Probably, but still illegal.
Definitely illegal. Stupid law? Probably, but still illegal.
Thanatoast said:
Until you create something that someone else decides to make money off of by copying...
I think we are going in circles. Maybe, Sdashiki, you are really asking about the merits of the copyright laws, not whether they apply. That subject is one people debate about all the time.
You seem to be saying that if people here are correct then you can't do these commissioned jobs based on suggested well-known characters, and that you resent it. That's understandable, but nobody has mentioned another possibility: to pay a license fee when you use a licensed character's image, and pass that cost on to the client. If they want a generic anthropomorphic mouse, fine. If they want a drawing inspired by Mickey Mouse, that costs a little more.
Perhaps my example is bad, because Disney is fairly picky about uses of their images, but I know that for certain types of copyrighted works there are clearinghouses set up to manage royalties and license fees. You essentially buy a one-time use license for something, for whatever it costs, and they take care of passing it along to the copyright holder. Then you are good to go, selling your works within the copyright laws.
You seem to be saying that if people here are correct then you can't do these commissioned jobs based on suggested well-known characters, and that you resent it. That's understandable, but nobody has mentioned another possibility: to pay a license fee when you use a licensed character's image, and pass that cost on to the client. If they want a generic anthropomorphic mouse, fine. If they want a drawing inspired by Mickey Mouse, that costs a little more.
Perhaps my example is bad, because Disney is fairly picky about uses of their images, but I know that for certain types of copyrighted works there are clearinghouses set up to manage royalties and license fees. You essentially buy a one-time use license for something, for whatever it costs, and they take care of passing it along to the copyright holder. Then you are good to go, selling your works within the copyright laws.
L
Lau
Guest
Good points there, Doctor Q.
I think you have to look at it like this someone's willing to pay you to paint a picture, and they want something that looks like a well known cartoon character. The reason they want a picture of that character is because the person or company that created it has spent a lot of time creating it, and a lot of money on creating and marketing it, and that's what's made it well known and that's why people are willing to pay you for doing your paintings.
If you were just painting a simple sailing boat like the link you provided, it's unlikely anyone would buy it. The reason that it's desirable is because a company has made the show popular, and because of the work they did in making the characters (and style) popular. That's the reason for licensing fees it's a way of paying back the original creator for the work they've done to make the work you've done more desirable.
Now whether you choose to worry about it is up to you. I've made t-shirts with hand drawn characters on them for individual gifts, and I personally don't have a problem with that because they're just silly little things I do as one-offs maybe once or twice a year, and I wouldn't do them for money or very often. As far as my morals go, I would always try and buy the original t-shirt if possible if it was from a less well established creator rather than making my own one.
As other people have said, it's probably unlikely that you'll get caught, but the larger scale you do it on, and the more money you make, the more likely that is, and perhaps it's more how far you would want to go morally.
I think you have to look at it like this someone's willing to pay you to paint a picture, and they want something that looks like a well known cartoon character. The reason they want a picture of that character is because the person or company that created it has spent a lot of time creating it, and a lot of money on creating and marketing it, and that's what's made it well known and that's why people are willing to pay you for doing your paintings.
If you were just painting a simple sailing boat like the link you provided, it's unlikely anyone would buy it. The reason that it's desirable is because a company has made the show popular, and because of the work they did in making the characters (and style) popular. That's the reason for licensing fees it's a way of paying back the original creator for the work they've done to make the work you've done more desirable.
Now whether you choose to worry about it is up to you. I've made t-shirts with hand drawn characters on them for individual gifts, and I personally don't have a problem with that because they're just silly little things I do as one-offs maybe once or twice a year, and I wouldn't do them for money or very often. As far as my morals go, I would always try and buy the original t-shirt if possible if it was from a less well established creator rather than making my own one.
As other people have said, it's probably unlikely that you'll get caught, but the larger scale you do it on, and the more money you make, the more likely that is, and perhaps it's more how far you would want to go morally.
...first if someone came to me wanting a huge Homer Simpson for their wall I'd run and fast, but in all seriousness ...it's a few lousy painting's, Ok get moral, it's illeagal...live with it ...god the guy isn't mass producing Yoda's on canvas!
...and just as an aside and to keep the pot stirred...what about Warhol's
Tomato soup can...did Campbell's ever sue him????
just a thought for all the goody two shoes out there!
R
...and just as an aside and to keep the pot stirred...what about Warhol's
Tomato soup can...did Campbell's ever sue him????
just a thought for all the goody two shoes out there!
R
Sdashiki said:
As I read this thread I thought at the least you were bringing some of your own creativity into your paintings. But these are just like... reproductions. You could feel content morally to sell these based on materials cost and time spent, but not on any higher value derived from artistic content. Because that value doesn't come from you.
L
Lau
Guest
decksnap said:
I must admit, I thought they'd be more along the lines of Ron English's stuff that, although using copyrighted images, twists them to make his own message.
iMeowbot said:
It's interesting that the nursery went on to be allowed to use other companies figures, presumably planting fond memories of Hanna-Barbera characters into the minds of hundreds of future consumers.
It's why I think companies could choose to be a bit lax on some copyright images, as it would benefit both them and the consumer.
Lau said:
I've always been confused by this expression. I mean if you have 'ceased' then you can't 'desist' as well. Maybe it should be "cease or desist, take your pick".
Making us think that through is cruel or unusual punishment!dogbone said:
On second thought... maybe desist in that phrase means "and don't start doing it again!!!"
But that would be common sense. If your landshark tells me to cease, my landshark will notice that I can do that, start up again tomorrow, and still have complied with the request. If yours tells me simply to desist, mine will tell me "well, that could be taken to mean that they want you to abstain in the future, so carry on with work in progress!"dogbone said:
iMeowbot said:
I can assure you I'd never post to MR without doing some research first. And I have found no definitions of 'desist' that implied future action other than what is ordinarily implied by 'stop'. But maybe this concept of reference to future action is somehow conveyed in a touchy feely sort of way. Like the difference between 'grey' and 'gray' I always felt that 'gray' was a slightly lighter shade.
ps, nice av.
I think you should just keep making paintings for the people who want them. And make those shirts for your friends.Even if it's illegal I doubt that you will get caught. But you should watch out if you sell shirts on ebay.