Cyberbullying

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apolloa

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Just thought I’d say in here, the behaviour of one particularly moderator on this site and the webmaster team towards me I consider to be verging on cyber bullying under the UK law.
This site has plummeted down the toilet with what is and isn’t acceptable now, racism is fine, threats and jokes about death towards people who use a certain brand of device is fine, trolling is fine...

Seriously, just get rid of one particular moderator and some others too and you may survive as a site, I highly advise you and your moderators to consider laws of the countries you operate in, because you are cutting it close with breaching them.. then you’ll be reported.

Alternatively perhaps reading into the laws you must abide by and training your moderators would help?
 

AngerDanger

macrumors 601
Dec 9, 2008
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Seriously, just get rid of one particular moderator and some others too and you may survive as a site
I understand it can be disheartening when your innocuous posts are moderated while seemingly terrible posts are allowed to remain, but please, this is complete hyperbole. "May survive?" I think you're part of a vocal minority while lots of us feel moderation is, for the most part, fine.

It depends who's online at the time you post; the team of mods here seem to be somewhat diverse in thought, and that's probably a good thing.

As for some of the UK's cyberbullying laws… I'd consider myself fairly liberal, but they tend to be a bit much.
 

tobefirst

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2005
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I understand it can be disheartening when your innocuous posts are moderated while seemingly terrible posts are allowed to remain, but please, this is complete hyperbole. "May survive?" I think you're part of a vocal minority while lots of us feel moderation is, for the most part, fine.

It depends who's online at the time you post; the team of mods here seem to be somewhat diverse in thought, and that's probably a good thing.

As for some of the UK's cyberbullying laws… I'd consider myself fairly liberal, but they tend to be a bit much.
The minority may be vocal, but either they've become less of a minority or a lot more vocal over the last 6 months? year? And those speaking up are, more and more often, longer term members.

There's something going on.
 

AngerDanger

macrumors 601
Dec 9, 2008
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The minority may be vocal, but either they've become less of a minority or a lot more vocal over the last 6 months? year? And those speaking up are, more and more often, longer term members.

There's something going on.
You know, you're right. I just think that the something might be going on outside of MacRumors; it seems likely that polarized sociopolitical views are seeping their way into the forums rather than the mods bullying people.
 

arkitect

macrumors 603
Sep 5, 2005
5,952
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Bath, United Kingdom
I wonder what the age distribution is at MacRumours…

There is a lot of puerile argumenting, insulting and commenting. Worthy of a school playground.

So I do suspect that many of the younger people here are quite OK with name calling, taunting and so forth… because, that's what they do as teenagers or twentysomethings.

At MacRumours it is only tooth and nail brand loyalty to Apple, at school (apparently) its a matter of life and death what sneakers you wear, whose logo you have emblazoned on your shirt, trousers and so forth. What nail varnish you're flaunting.

I'd say MacRumours is probably just a reflection of society and bullying is par for the course. (Not that I think that excuses the behaviour!)

And then when the bullies "grow up", they become corporate middle management…
 

tobefirst

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You know, you're right. I just think that the something might be going on outside of MacRumors; it seems likely that polarized sociopolitical views are seeping their way into the forums rather than the mods bullying people.
Wouldn't those polarizing sociopolitical viewpoints affect/come from mods at the same rate as regular users? Just curious.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
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The Far Horizon
You know, you're right. I just think that the something might be going on outside of MacRumors; it seems likely that polarized sociopolitical views are seeping their way into the forums rather than the mods bullying people.
I wonder what the age distribution is at MacRumours…

There is a lot of puerile argumenting, insulting and commenting. Worthy of a school playground.

So I do suspect that many of the younger people here are quite OK with name calling, taunting and so forth… because, that's what they do as teenagers or twentysomethings.

At MacRumours it is only tooth and nail brand loyalty to Apple, at school (apparently) its a matter of life and death what sneakers you wear, whose logo you have emblazoned on your shirt, trousers and so forth. What nail varnish you're flaunting.

I'd say MacRumours is probably just a reflection of society and bullying is par for the course. (Not that I think that excuses the behaviour!)

And then when the bullies "grow up", they become corporate middle management…
Well said.

Actually, I think there is a lot of truth to what both of you have written, both in terms of the increasingly polarised form that political debate seems to have been taking, the identification of brands with crafted constructs and notions of personal identity, and the possible age profile of many of those who post here.
[doublepost=1552333911][/doublepost]
Wouldn't those polarizing sociopolitical viewpoints affect/come from mods at the same rate as regular users? Just curious.
Not necessarily.

As mods, I would assume that many of them would refrain from giving too much by way of an open voice to their political persuasions or preferences while serving as mods.
 

AngerDanger

macrumors 601
Dec 9, 2008
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Wouldn't those polarizing sociopolitical viewpoints affect/come from mods at the same rate as regular users? Just curious.
It seems likely that folks selected for their ability to contribute meaningfully and judge impartially would be less susceptible to polarization, but that's a fair point.

Anecdotally, I can imagine there are many mods I've annoyed in general or personally offended in the PRSI, but they continue to moderate my posts with the same frequency as ever.
 

tobefirst

macrumors 601
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It seems likely that folks selected for their ability to contribute meaningfully and judge impartially would be less susceptible to polarization, but that's a fair point.

Anecdotally, I can imagine there are many mods I've annoyed in general or personally offended in the PRSI, but they continue to moderate my posts with the same frequency as ever.
I've never been bullied by a moderator (or any other user), nor have I been the wrath of them at any point – I may have one infraction on my record...maybe. I have had numerous situations where I've reported posts and the rules aren't being enforced as they are written, making it really frustrating for me to the point where I've stopped reporting posts at all.

What is really frustrating though, is that there seems to be very little to no admission that the moderators could possibly do a better job. Among posts by some users, current and former moderators, and admins, I get the impression that they think the moderation around here is perfect.

And when I see more and more of these kinds of threads by long term users, and more and more denials that there is anything wrong or ever could be...it strikes me the wrong way.
 

apolloa

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Just a heads up, I made this thread because their is ONE moderator and ONLY one who is always flagging my posts. I reported two posts for what I considered sickening content, I was told this was fine and no action taken, today the same usual Mod sends me a warning for posting off topic because I called them out and quoted the two comments.

As I said it’s one moderator. And if I complain the webmaster team just constantly defend them, that’s why I consider it to be bordering on cyber bullying in the UK, laws are being drafted for this action. Hence my comment this site would do well to consider the laws of the countries they operate in. Considering currently the UK Parliament are happily pulling Mark and Facebook to pieces, plus You Tube. It’s being taken seriously.

Now I would never consider this personally, but when it’s the exact same ONE moderator every single time.. it seems as though they like to pick on me and my posts.. hence the accusation of cyber bullying.

Their is no underlying political of social opinions or mechanisms at play! Your going way off with that ideology. I think it’s more a case of a little power going to someone’s head.
 
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tobefirst

macrumors 601
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Just a heads up, I made this thread because their is ONE moderator and ONLY one who is always flagging my posts. I reported two posts for what I considered sickening content, I was told this was fine and no action taken, today the same usual Mod sends me a warning for posting off topic because I called them out and quoted the two comments.
Well, if you're commenting publicly on specific instances of moderation – I'm unclear on if that is what you're talking about – that's against the rules.
 

apolloa

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Oct 21, 2008
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Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
I understand it can be disheartening when your innocuous posts are moderated while seemingly terrible posts are allowed to remain, but please, this is complete hyperbole. "May survive?" I think you're part of a vocal minority while lots of us feel moderation is, for the most part, fine.

It depends who's online at the time you post; the team of mods here seem to be somewhat diverse in thought, and that's probably a good thing.

As for some of the UK's cyberbullying laws… I'd consider myself fairly liberal, but they tend to be a bit much.
Well you could have your opinion on UK cyber bullying laws, but considering their have been a large amount of suicides by children as a direct result of cyber bullying, I consider them to be a necessity to save lives and it’s the result for their creation.
[doublepost=1552335948][/doublepost]
Well, if you're commenting publicly on specific instances of moderation – I'm unclear on if that is what you're talking about – that's against the rules.
Nope, just needed to highlight my case as the thread has gone way off track discussing social and political views. But it is a fact. And it’s part of the OP, because you can consider to be cyberbullyes by one or a group of people on social media like this site.
 

AngerDanger

macrumors 601
Dec 9, 2008
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Well you could have your opinion on UK cyber bullying laws, but considering their have been a large amount of suicides by children as a direct result of cyber bullying, I consider them to be a necessity to save lives and it’s the result for their creation.
I don't think that's true; theres a wikipedia article listing every reported instance of suicide as a result of bullying. It's pretty short and includes cyber and in-person bullying (and even then, the article is disputed because it favors instances in which people allegedly killed themselves from bullying).

As for cyberbullying in general, I wish wish all bullies had a small X in the top left or right corner that would close them, but that ability doesn't extend to real life. Cyberbullying is almost participatory.
 

apolloa

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I don't think that's true; theres a wikipedia article listing every reported instance of suicide as a result of bullying. It's pretty short and includes cyber and in-person bullying (and even then, the article is disputed because it favors instances in which people allegedly killed themselves from bullying).

As for cyberbullying in general, I wish wish all bullies had a small X in the top left or right corner that would close them, but that ability doesn't extend to real life. Cyberbullying is almost participatory.
It’s actually a fact, why read Wikipedia, the site that anyone can post content on?

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/04/22/cyberbullying-makes-young-people-twice-likely-self-harm-attempt/amp/

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-42002981

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/733193/Bullies-driving-kids-suicide-via-phone-apps/amp
 

ericgtr12

macrumors 65816
Mar 19, 2015
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7,439
I understand it can be disheartening when your innocuous posts are moderated while seemingly terrible posts are allowed to remain, but please, this is complete hyperbole. "May survive?" I think you're part of a vocal minority while lots of us feel moderation is, for the most part, fine.

It depends who's online at the time you post; the team of mods here seem to be somewhat diverse in thought, and that's probably a good thing.

As for some of the UK's cyberbullying laws… I'd consider myself fairly liberal, but they tend to be a bit much.
I have been making this argument for a long time, depending on the moderator your treatment may vary. It makes for inconsistent moderation, but they won't seem to concede that here. As for the mod, we all know who that person is and they are on all the time, if nothing else most users are being penalized by the same hand, whether you agree with the infraction or not.
 

apolloa

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Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
I understand it can be disheartening when your innocuous posts are moderated while seemingly terrible posts are allowed to remain, but please, this is complete hyperbole. "May survive?" I think you're part of a vocal minority while lots of us feel moderation is, for the most part, fine.

It depends who's online at the time you post; the team of mods here seem to be somewhat diverse in thought, and that's probably a good thing.

As for some of the UK's cyberbullying laws… I'd consider myself fairly liberal, but they tend to be a bit much.
I missed this, I’m afraid is a nine point to claim it depends on who’s online at the time, I’ve had posts picked in by the exact same mod several days after being posted! So this proves that theory to be incorrect.
I’ve read on other forums on other sites discussions about how people have felt victimised by the moderators on here, some feeling certain members have lured them into a trap and then they are banned by a mod.

This could be considered as a form of cyber bullying. I’ve been there myself and just ended up ignoring these certain members.
 

BasicGreatGuy

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
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In the middle of several books.
Just a heads up, I made this thread because their is ONE moderator and ONLY one who is always flagging my posts. I reported two posts for what I considered sickening content, I was told this was fine and no action taken, today the same usual Mod sends me a warning for posting off topic because I called them out and quoted the two comments.

As I said it’s one moderator. And if I complain the webmaster team just constantly defend them, that’s why I consider it to be bordering on cyber bullying in the UK, laws are being drafted for this action. Hence my comment this site would do well to consider the laws of the countries they operate in. Considering currently the UK Parliament are happily pulling Mark and Facebook to pieces, plus You Tube. It’s being taken seriously.

Now I would never consider this personally, but when it’s the exact same ONE moderator every single time.. it seems as though they like to pick on me and my posts.. hence the accusation of cyber bullying.

Their is no underlying political of social opinions or mechanisms at play! Your going way off with that ideology. I think it’s more a case of a little power going to someone’s head.
1. Moderation is not done in a vacuum. There is no such thing as a rogue moderator.
2. All moderator actions are reviewed by fellow moderators and if need be, admins.
3. Posting off topic is cause for moderator action.
4. Posting about specific moderator action outside of the outlined MacRumors rules is cause for moderator action.
5. Not every post you report will require moderator action.
6. A moderator acting in concert with his duties (per your posting habits described) does not constitute cyber bullying in the U.S. or UK.
7. Change your posting habits so that you are not violating the rules. If you are confused about any particular rule, contact the staff.
8. Take responsibility for your own actions, instead of blaming someone else, who is doling his duty to the best of his ability.
 

apolloa

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Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
1. Moderation is not done in a vacuum. There is no such thing as a rogue moderator.
2. All moderator actions are reviewed by fellow moderators and if need be, admins.
3. Posting off topic is cause for moderator action.
4. Posting about specific moderator action outside of the outlined MacRumors rules is cause for moderator action.
5. Not every post you report will require moderator action.
6. A moderator acting in concert with his duties (per your posting habits described) does not constitute cyber bullying in the U.S. or UK.
7. Change your posting habits so that you are not violating the rules. If you are confused about any particular rule, contact the staff.
8. Take responsibility for your own actions, instead of blaming someone else, who is doling his duty to the best of his ability.
I read this as a reply with an arrogant undertone to it, this is what it is deal with it kind of post, how dare you challenge it it’s perfect..

And I’d like to see proof of point 2 please otherwise you made it up...
And your point 8 is made also with an air of an arrogant undertone and almost could be seen as promoting cyber bullying, perhaps you should instead take a step back and consider it is a real thing that does exist, rather then proclaim don’t blame anyone else..

No one else who’s posted here has done so with the same manor as you?
 
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BasicGreatGuy

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
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In the middle of several books.
An unsurprising arrogant reply from you, and I’d like to see proof of point 2 please otherwise you made it up...
And your point 8 is quite arrogant and almost could be seen as promoting cyber bullying, perhaps you should instead take a step back and consider it is a real thing that does exist, rather then proclaim don’t blame anyone else..

No one else who’s posted here has done so with the same manor as you.
I didn't make anything up. The staff can confirm at any time, that what I said is true (re: #2).

I haven't bullied you in any way nor have I condoned or promoted cyberbullying.

Edited to add: https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201260827-How-are-moderation-errors-handled-

In addition to the link, the staff has openly stated what I have said before on the forum. I have been a moderator before on a very large and well-known site, that has other mods just like MR. I know how the process works.
 
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apolloa

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I didn't make anything up. The staff can confirm at any time, that what I said is true (re: #2).

I haven't bullied you in any way nor have I condoned or promoted cyberbullying.
I amended my reply, your post came across harsh with no door to be challenged, more this is what it is I am right it is perfect.

And if you cannot prove point 2 then their is little reason to trust it as being fact. Because if it was true it would be written in the site rules.
 

BasicGreatGuy

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annk

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Apr 18, 2004
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Just thought I’d say in here, the behaviour of one particularly moderator on this site and the webmaster team towards me I consider to be verging on cyber bullying under the UK law.
This site has plummeted down the toilet with what is and isn’t acceptable now, racism is fine, threats and jokes about death towards people who use a certain brand of device is fine, trolling is fine...

Seriously, just get rid of one particular moderator and some others too and you may survive as a site, I highly advise you and your moderators to consider laws of the countries you operate in, because you are cutting it close with breaching them.. then you’ll be reported.

Alternatively perhaps reading into the laws you must abide by and training your moderators would help?
If you would like to lodge a complaint, you are free to do so via the Contact Us link. As per the rules you accepted when you registered, you may not however post about specific moderation in the forums. You may not like all our rules, but you did indeed accept them.

If there is a rule you would like to bring up for discussion with your fellow members and the staff, you are welcomed to do so here in Site And Forum Feedback. The discussion must be general, without reference to specific moderation.

If you do decide to lodge a complaint against a staff member, we expect you to be specific. What did the staff member do that was problematic? Which post? Was there a rules violation involved, did you feel the tone was inappropriate? Cyberbullying is a very serious charge. We take complaints very seriously, and we expect you to do the same. Getting moderated for breaking rules does not equate moderator unsuitability, but the administrators will of course review any complaint where you are specific.

Wouldn't those polarizing sociopolitical viewpoints affect/come from mods at the same rate as regular users? Just curious.
Polarizing sociopolitical viewpoints affect us all. You're only immune if you live under a rock. When you however accept a role in a group or organization, you agree to adhere to that group or organization's ethical standards and rules. The system of checks and balances here ensures that no one can go rogue. My fellow staff members make sure I behave, and I help to make sure my fellow staff members behave.

What is really frustrating though, is that there seems to be very little to no admission that the moderators could possibly do a better job. Among posts by some users, current and former moderators, and admins, I get the impression that they think the moderation around here is perfect.
Then you haven't been paying attention. We always point out that we are human and can make mistakes. When our moderation is challenged, we review it, and adjust or reverse it if we discover we've made a mistake.

For you to claim that there is "very little to no admission" of our infallibility is odd to say the least, given how often I myself have posted about it, and the fact that how moderation is done is explained in the FAQ.

1. Moderation is not done in a vacuum. There is no such thing as a rogue moderator.
2. All moderator actions are reviewed by fellow moderators and if need be, admins.
3. Posting off topic is cause for moderator action.
4. Posting about specific moderator action outside of the outlined MacRumors rules is cause for moderator action.
5. Not every post you report will require moderator action.
6. A moderator acting in concert with his duties (per your posting habits described) does not constitute cyber bullying in the U.S. or UK.
7. Change your posting habits so that you are not violating the rules. If you are confused about any particular rule, contact the staff.
8. Take responsibility for your own actions, instead of blaming someone else, who is doling his duty to the best of his ability.
This is a very good summary, and perfectly in line with how I would have written it.

And if you cannot prove point 2 then their is little reason to trust it as being fact. Because if it was true it would be written in the site rules.
If you don't believe point two, that says to me that you choose not to believe us when we explain how moderation is done. This is information we've made public via the Moderation FAQ. If you don't believe this, I'm surprised that you choose to use the forum section of this site, where our rules apply.

Summary:
  1. All complaints are given a very thorough review, and must be submitted here. We ask that complaints are specific.
  2. Referring to specific moderation in threads is not allowed. Since there are references to specific moderation in this thread, I've closed it for further comments.
 

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