D40 and lack of understanding?

[heesey1010]

So I just bought a D40 and got around to taking some pictures with it. Initial pictures on AUTO mode were a bit dark, especially for a bright day in central Florida. So I just thought OK, great time to fiddle with the exposure settings and such in the different modes.

Then I realized, however, the following: isn't the D40 known for being a good gateway camera for first-time dSLR people? I remember hearing people say that you can get started right away on AUTO mode and that it would already take good pictures.

If that's the case, then is THIS considered "a good picture"? Again, it was very bright outside.

File name: DSC_0025.JPG
File size: 1972433 bytes (3008x2000, 2.6bpp, 9x)
EXIF Summary: 1/400s f/10.0 ISO200 18mm (35mm eq:27mm)

Camera-Specific Properties:

Equipment Make: NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model: NIKON D40
Camera Software: Ver.1.11
Maximum Lens Aperture: f/3.5
Sensing Method: One-Chip Color Area
Color Filter Array Pattern: 836
Focal Length (35mm Equiv): 27 mm

Image-Specific Properties:

Image Orientation: Top, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution: 300 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 300 dpi
Image Created: 2009:08:15 13:32:59
Exposure Time: 1/400 sec
F-Number: f/10.0
Exposure Program: Not Defined
ISO Speed Rating: 200
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Metering Mode: Pattern
Light Source: Unknown
Flash: No Flash
Focal Length: 18.00 mm
Color Space Information: sRGB
Image Width: 3008
Image Height: 2000
Rendering: Normal
Exposure Mode: Auto
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Gain Control: None
Contrast: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Subject Distance Range: Unknown
ISO Speed Used: 200
Color Mode: COLOR
Image Quality: FINE
White Balance: AUTO
Image Sharpening: AUTO
Focus Mode: AF-A
Flash Setting: NORMAL
Flash Compensation: 0.0 EV
ISO Speed Requested: 200
Tone Compensation: AUTO
Lens Type: Nikon D Series
Lens Range: 18.0 - 55.0 mm; f/3.5 - f/5.6
Auto Focus: Closest Subject, Right Selected, Unknown Focused
Shooting/Bracketing Mode: Single Frame/Off
Color Mode: Landscape sRGB
Lighting Type: NATURAL
Noise Reduction: OFF
Camera Actuations: 2696
Saturation 2: AUTO
Digital Vari-Program: AUTO

Other Properties:

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Chrominance Comp Positioning: Co-Sited
Exif IFD Pointer: 216
Compression Scheme: JPEG Compression (Thumbnail)
Horizontal Resolution: 300 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 300 dpi
Resolution Unit: i
Offset to JPEG SOI: 29508
Bytes of JPEG Data: 9285
Chrominance Comp Positioning: Co-Sited
Exif Version: 2.21
Image Generated: 2009:08:15 13:32:59
Image Digitized: 2009:08:15 13:32:59
Meaning of Each Comp: Unknown
Image Compression Mode: 4
Comment:
DateTime Second Fraction: 60
DateTimeOriginal Second Fraction: 60
DateTimeDigitized Second Fraction: 60
File Source: Other
Scene Type: Unknown
White Balance: Auto
Digital Zoom Ratio: 1
Saturation: Normal
Nikon Note Version: 2.10
Auto Flash Mode:
Flash Used: No
Image Optimization:

i should stress that I could totally be having high expectations for myself/for the camera, and that maybe I really do have to fiddle with the settings to get the right picture. But I thought it'd capture at least half of the light from the sun; this just looks too dark.

Thanks again.

 

[object88]

First off, I am new to the D40 and photography in general, so don't take any of this as gospel.

Are you generating the jpg in camera, or are you shooting RAW?

I think that photo is underexposed. The D40 is clever, but it can make mistakes. I would bet that the photo you wanted to take was a little difficult, especially if it was a bright day. The camera probably wanted to expose the sky, which is bright, and that led to underexposed the trees. On top of that, I have found that my D40 underexposes a little in general.

At any rate, I didn't use Auto mode very long. I'm a pretty big fan of Aperture mode, and it seems to work well for my limited skills. Or if you're keen on sticking with Auto, perhaps you could try one of the pre-programmed scene modes.

 

[Acsom]

It's underexposed. You know that, though.

In digital, underexposed can be fixed reasonably easy, as long as it's not gone completely black. Lightroom, added about 1.75 stops, some brghtness and contrast (OK, OK, I hit "auto tone"; probably could have sorted it out better but this works as a demonstration).

Your camera is taking it's exposure off the average weight of the scene, center weighted for those clouds in the middle. So they, and the sky in general, are correct; but the trees then are too dark. This is actually a really hard scene for the camera to sort out by itself! In the past photogs used graduated filters to match sky and landscape. Now it's either a filter, or photoshop.

 

[toxic]

read up on metering. there are several tutorials online, think cambridge-in-colour has one.

the bulk of that image is the bright sky (and really bright clouds), so the camera exposes that as neutral gray, and then the shadows (the trees) are grossly underexposed. this is why cameras have exposure compensation. in this case, you'd probably need +2. without clouds, +1 would be about right.

 

[heesey1010]

Hmmm, I appreciate all the responses. The fact that the camera seems "confused" by both sky and the trees actually makes sense. I'll look up metering and such, but here's another picture to demonstrate my point. Again, it probably does have to deal with metering and such, it's just boggling because I took test shots at Best Buy with their cameras and found the quality to be perfectly acceptable in similar conditions.

^^That image, to me, is properly if not a little overexposed. Canon SD600. I'll post EXIF if need be. Gist: fill flash used.

^^That image is woefully underexposed, in my opinion. Again, trust me in the fact that the room is well lit for the most part. Still requires flash, but I didn't think I'd have to do THAT much work with a picture in auto mode. Flash was automatically set up in auto mode, TTL flash used.

Thanks for putting up with me on this...I just want to make sure my investment is worth every penny! And if I do have to be dependent on the P/S/A/M modes, then I guess that's fine. I just always thought that a D40 in auto mode was, for the most part, already sufficient enough for good photos and then the modes were meant for more creative options.

 

[djbahdow01]

Your asking this question now after taking almost 2700 images? Were they all like this or is it just starting to occur? For the indoor photo it would be nice to see EXIF on that as I would like to see you ISO value as well as your metering selection, Matrix, Center Weighted, Spot.

Either way looks like there might be an issue if this just started happening or you bought a used camera if its relatively new to you.

 

[heesey1010]

Bought as a demo unit from Cameta; actuation count was 2600 when I received it yesterday.

For the two photos:

Canon EXIF data: File name: IMG_3149.JPG
File size: 2936722 bytes (2816x2112, 4.0bpp, 6x)
EXIF Summary: 1/60s f/2.8 5.8mm

Camera-Specific Properties:

Equipment Make: Canon
Camera Model: Canon PowerShot SD600
Maximum Lens Aperture: f/2.8
Sensing Method: One-Chip Color Area
Lens Size: 5.80 - 17.40 mm
Firmware Version: Firmware Version 1.00

Image-Specific Properties:

Image Orientation: Top, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution: 180 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 180 dpi
Image Created: 2009:08:15 21:05:50
Exposure Time: 1/60 sec
F-Number: f/2.8
Lens Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: Flash, Compulsory
Focal Length: 5.80 mm
Color Space Information: sRGB
Image Width: 2816
Image Height: 2112
Rendering: Normal
Exposure Mode: Auto
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Focus Type: Auto
Metering Mode: Evaluative
ISO Speed Rating: Auto
Sharpness: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Contrast: Normal
Shooting Mode: Manual
Image Size: Large
Focus Mode: Single
Drive Mode: Single
Flash Mode: On
Compression Setting: Superfine
Macro Mode: Normal
Subject Distance: 3.820 m
White Balance: Auto
Exposure Compensation: 3
Sensor ISO Speed: 160
Image Number: 100-3149

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Chrominance Comp Positioning: Centered
Exif IFD Pointer: 196
Compression Scheme: JPEG Compression (Thumbnail)
Horizontal Resolution: 180 dpi
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Image Generated: 2009:08:15 21:05:50
Image Digitized: 2009:08:15 21:05:50
Meaning of Each Comp: Unknown
Image Compression Mode: 5
Shutter Speed: 1/60 sec
Metering Mode: Pattern
Focal Plane Horiz Resolution: 12515 dpi
Focal Plane Vert Resolution: 12497 dpi
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White Balance: Auto
Digital Zoom Ratio: 1
Base Zoom Resolution: 2816
Zoomed Resolution: 2816
Exposure Mode: Easy Shooting
Digital Zoom: None
Self-Timer Length: 0 sec
Canon Tag1 Length: 92
Flash Bias: 0.00 EV
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Image Type: IMGowerShot SD600 JPEG
Owner Name:


File name: DSC_0062.JPG
File size: 2018993 bytes (3008x2000, 2.7bpp, 9x)
EXIF Summary: 1/80s f/3.5 ISO400 18mm (35mm eq:27mm)

Nikon EXIF Data (What kind of metering should be on there...)
Camera-Specific Properties:

Equipment Make: NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model: NIKON D40
Camera Software: Ver.1.11
Maximum Lens Aperture: f/3.5
Sensing Method: One-Chip Color Area
Color Filter Array Pattern: 836
Focal Length (35mm Equiv): 27 mm

Image-Specific Properties:

Image Orientation: Top, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution: 300 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 300 dpi
Image Created: 2009:08:15 21:01:37
Exposure Time: 1/80 sec
F-Number: f/3.5
Exposure Program: Not Defined
ISO Speed Rating: 400
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Metering Mode: Pattern
Light Source: Unknown
Flash: Flash, Auto, Return Not Detected
Focal Length: 18.00 mm
Color Space Information: sRGB
Image Width: 3008
Image Height: 2000
Rendering: Normal
Exposure Mode: Auto
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Gain Control: Low Gain Up
Contrast: Soft
Sharpness: Normal
Subject Distance Range: Unknown
ISO Speed Used: 400
Color Mode: COLOR
Image Quality: FINE
White Balance: AUTO
Image Sharpening: AUTO
Focus Mode: AF-A
Flash Setting: NORMAL
Auto Flash Mode: Built-in,TTL
Flash Compensation: 0.0 EV
ISO Speed Requested: 400
Tone Compensation: AUTO
Lens Type: Nikon D Series
Lens Range: 18.0 - 55.0 mm; f/3.5 - f/5.6
Auto Focus: Closest Subject, Center Selected, Top Focused
Shooting/Bracketing Mode: Single Frame/Off
Color Mode: Landscape sRGB
Lighting Type: SPEEDLIGHT
Noise Reduction: OFF
Camera Actuations: 2774
Saturation 2: AUTO
Digital Vari-Program: AUTO

Other Properties:

Resolution Unit: i
Chrominance Comp Positioning: Co-Sited
Exif IFD Pointer: 216
Compression Scheme: JPEG Compression (Thumbnail)
Horizontal Resolution: 300 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 300 dpi
Resolution Unit: i
Offset to JPEG SOI: 26460
Bytes of JPEG Data: 8925
Chrominance Comp Positioning: Co-Sited
Exif Version: 2.21
Image Generated: 2009:08:15 21:01:37
Image Digitized: 2009:08:15 21:01:37
Meaning of Each Comp: Unknown
Image Compression Mode: 4
Comment:
DateTime Second Fraction: 50
DateTimeOriginal Second Fraction: 50
DateTimeDigitized Second Fraction: 50
File Source: Other
Scene Type: Unknown
White Balance: Auto
Digital Zoom Ratio: 1
Saturation: Normal
Nikon Note Version: 2.10
Flash Used: No
Image Optimization:

 

[Heb1228]

The D40 is actually a little prone to overexposure because it exposes based on the darker areas of the photo. If it's consistently underexposing THAT much, either a setting is wrong or there's something wrong with your camera.

EDIT: Here's from a D40 User's guide:

Exposure Compensation

I set my exposure compensation to -0.7 because my D40's metering firmware is defective, just like the D80's meter. It usually overexposes.

Set -0.7 by holding the +/- button near the shutter and turning the rear dial two clicks to the right.

Sadly we'll often have to adjust this depending on the subject. It's no big deal: just look at the image on the LCD and click it towards the left (+) to lighten the image, and to the right (-) to darken it for the next shot. This is why I prefer my D200, which has a superior meter because it rarely needs any fiddling.

 

[gkarris]

OP - That's really interesting.

I bought a used D70 to maybe use some of the newer Nikon lenses and last weekend took it out shooting, and all the pics were really underexposed (like yours). The exposure comp was at 0.

I was really surprised as I have never had this with my Olympus or Canon bodies in ANY mode.

I just didn't know how to use the Nikon? I returned it in frustration.

I can post pics if interested.

 

[heesey1010]

gkarris: please post pics if you have the time to . I really don't want to get another camera as the D40 just feels great in my hands. I've always liked both canons and nikons in the P&S world (although Canons I believe are far superior to Nikons).

I've already e-mailed Cameta and will wait til Monday for a response. The only Nikon service center that I know of in Orlando (colonial photo and hobby) is closed on Sundays, so I'll just wait til Monday regardless to take any action.

 

[John.B]

I have never taken a single shot with my dSLR on Auto. Not one.

I'm at a loss as to why you would buy such a camera and then use it as a point and shoot. Not meaning to belittle you in any way; it just doesn't make sense. If you want P&S functionality, you can get it far less expensively than the D40 (and up).

 

[heesey1010]

I really didn't intend to use it on Auto mode ALL the time; it was just meant to be a transition periods of sorts to actually using the settings and having more control over them. But the D40 has been lauded over and over again for taking good photos on Auto mode as well as when one chooses to mess around with aperture, focal length, etc.

I don't take personal offense to your comment, I just want to clarify that it's not like I'll use the auto mode all the time, haha. I would've just bought an SX10 or w/e Canon's prosumer camera is right now.

 

[FRiC]

Hi, the D40 is very good in auto mode compared to other DSLR's of the same era. However, for overly bright or overly dark environments or objects, you have to use exposure compensation, or it will never look as good as compact cameras.

gkarris: For the D70, you have to load in some custom curves or it would constantly seem to underexpose.

 

[gkarris]

gkarris: For the D70, you have to load in some custom curves or it would constantly seem to underexpose.

What???

gkarris: please post pics if you have the time to . I really don't want to get another camera as the D40 just feels great in my hands. I've always liked both canons and nikons in the P&S world (although Canons I believe are far superior to Nikons).

I've already e-mailed Cameta and will wait til Monday for a response. The only Nikon service center that I know of in Orlando (colonial photo and hobby) is closed on Sundays, so I'll just wait til Monday regardless to take any action.

See below.

Both were shot in Aperture Priority at f8 (D70 left, E-420 right). The shots are a week apart, but taken under the same conditions during the exact same time of the day.

The Nikon Lens is an old one from my N70, but I've used that lens on the E-420 and it looks warmer, but not that underexposed ...

I guess these Nikons take some figuring out...

 

[leighonigar]

Learn how to use the camera. I have used a great number of film and digital cameras and no metering system is perfect. Very bright shots such as you show here often exceed the dynamic range of the sensor. How you want these shots to come out you decide using the exposure compensation. Nikon's metering is widely held to be the best in the business - I have never had any problem with it.

If you're shooting a scene with sky and you want the ground to be exposed right, add light (+ compensation).

Yes, some camera/lens combinations have a certain bias to under or over exposure but not this much. This is just a problem of scene. If you have trouble predicting what the camera is doing with matrix metering try switching to centre weighted.

If it underexposes like this in normal conditions then perhaps the camera has a problem but the fact that you have posted pictures of a light and the sky makes me think it is user error.

 

[TenPoundMonkey]

First, don't take any offense.

It's considered a "good gateway DSLR" because it's a decent and cheap unit for people to learn about using DSLRs. Using a DSLR in AUTO is like driving your car in first gear all the time. The amount of sunlight overwhelmed the camera , making it underexpose the frame.

Again, DSLRs aren't good for what they do in auto- you should have just bought a point and shoot if that's what you want. So yes, i diagnose your problem just like your thread title "D40 and lack of understanding".

 

[leighonigar]

Just to be clear - it is exposing contrasty scenes that meters struggle with, not just bright ones. You'll also find that cameras tend to overexpose (away from realism) at night etc, if you leave them to their own devices. Experiment and play with the exposure comp. Maybe shoot in full manual for a bit to get the hang of things.

 

[ManhattanPrjct]

Compared to a point-and-shoot, a DSLR takes much longer to figure out because it simply gives you more control than you are used to. There are many more decisions you need to make and, no offense, it just doesn't sound like you've worked enough with your camera to get a grasp of what they are and what to do. This is normal - unless you're going to shell out a lot of money for a course, you'll need to learn along the way.

There are great books you can buy as a reference (like "Understanding Exposure") that really helped me when I started. I took many many pictures on different settings and ultimately I figured out how to really get my camera to do what I wanted - but it takes time!

I don't think your camera is broken. Re: the sky picture - you have a bright sky and dark trees. If you're in AUTO mode, any camera is going to have to decide what exposure settings to use. It doesn't have the dynamic range to get both at their best, so you get an average shot. Re: the indoors picture - tough to comment because I'm not sure what lens you're using and the layout/lighting of the room.

 

[heesey1010]

I should reiterate something: i have been playing around with the P/S/A/M modes and am relatively good at getting a picture that way. Sometimes the picture seems slightly out of focus because I'm using a tad too slow shutter speed and my elbow moves just enough to give it a very slight blur, but that can be compensated. I also tried auto mode again this morning and it seems to be working better...also tried programmed auto mode which works to my expectations for the most part as well.

However, I still firmly believe that there is something wrong metering-wise/sensor-wise/SOMETHING; indoor photos are just simply not up to snuff at all. I'm forced to use a full power flash instead of letting the TTL system doing it because 99% of the time the TTL flash will barely illuminate a subject. I've also looked at some photos on some sites such as dpreview and compared EXIF data and such. Similar photos have similar settings (aperture, shutter speed, mode used, etc.), but their pictures look ten times better than what I can produce. So I figure that I'll just take it in anyway (I already found dust on the sensor...bad me, ugh.), and if there's nothing wrong then I'll just laugh about it and move on . Thanks again everyone.

 

[msh]

You have posted a very difficult example for the Auto mode of the D40. I have had my D40 for about 2 weeks and here is one of my first shots in auto mode (although with a different lens - the 35mm/1.8). It is still a little underexposed but not bad. However, I have quickly learned to use Programmed Auto mode and exposure compensation settings and get much better results as you can see in the second shot (on the right).

 

[object88]

To me, it does seem like there's something wrong with that indoors w/ flash photo. Have you tried doing a factory settings reset? Since yours was a demo unit, I wonder if some obscure setting is messing things up.

 

[toxic]

I don't see the point of ragging on about using Auto vs some other setting. metering is metering.

OP: the indoor shots don't look good because the flash didn't fire. all that means is the point-&-shoot is more eager to use the flash. switch to P mode (program mode, basically auto with flexibility), pop up the flash, and play around some more.

 

[Heb1228]

All you telling him he needs to learn more about his camera are crazy. He's using the thing in Auto mode and its not working correctly. There's something wrong with his camera. I've got a D40 and the photos look fine in Auto mode with no fiddling with exposure compensation or other settings at all.

Auto is meant to point and shoot and take great pictures. The D40 does exactly that when its working properly.

 

[leighonigar]

All you telling him he needs to learn more about his camera are crazy. He's using the thing in Auto mode and its not working correctly. There's something wrong with his camera. I've got a D40 and the photos look fine in Auto mode with no fiddling with exposure compensation or other settings at all.

Auto is meant to point and shoot and take great pictures. The D40 does exactly that when its working properly.

The photographs he has posted are of odd subjects. If he wanted to convince us posting some problem shots other than of a light bulb and a sky-contrast scene would be a lot more effective.

 

[heesey1010]

to toxic: the flash DID fire. that's what's odd about it.

And I don't mind being ragged on; I was very open to the fact that it might just be user error. That being said, everything should be (hopefully) definitively answered by tomorrow when I head downtown to the camera shop there.