All Devices Dark theme, does it darken webpages also?

spinedoc77

macrumors G3
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
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I'm wondering if using the new dark theme on iOS13 when using Safari also darkens the webpages themselves, or only the Safari trappings? For reference if you use smart invert, even in iOS 12, the webpages themselves get darkened, or rather sort of get colors inverted but graphics don't get inverted. It's really quite nice and kudos to Apple for making it work. But if I switch to the new dark theme and have smart invert off what happens to webpages? It seems like it would defeat the purpose if the webpages didn't darken as well.

Can anyone on beta test this out?
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,668
22,396
I'm wondering if using the new dark theme on iOS13 when using Safari also darkens the webpages themselves, or only the Safari trappings? For reference if you use smart invert, even in iOS 12, the webpages themselves get darkened, or rather sort of get colors inverted but graphics don't get inverted. It's really quite nice and kudos to Apple for making it work. But if I switch to the new dark theme and have smart invert off what happens to webpages? It seems like it would defeat the purpose if the webpages didn't darken as well.

Can anyone on beta test this out?
I inadvertently 3D touched on the AA in the url bar and got a website to go black. But every one I tried thereafter didn’t go black. I wonder if it’s something the website has to add? Is it a CSS thing?
 

aevan

macrumors 68040
Feb 5, 2015
3,125
3,999
Serbia
I'm wondering if using the new dark theme on iOS13 when using Safari also darkens the webpages themselves, or only the Safari trappings? For reference if you use smart invert, even in iOS 12, the webpages themselves get darkened, or rather sort of get colors inverted but graphics don't get inverted. It's really quite nice and kudos to Apple for making it work. But if I switch to the new dark theme and have smart invert off what happens to webpages? It seems like it would defeat the purpose if the webpages didn't darken as well.

Can anyone on beta test this out?
Just like with Mojave, only the websites that support Apple’s dark theme in their code (and design) will be dark. So, for example, www.sixcolors.com will be dark or light depending on your OS setting, but the majority of websites most likely won’t (sadly).
 

OVERTASK

macrumors 6502
Sep 17, 2013
374
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I inadvertently 3D touched on the AA in the url bar and got a website to go black. But every one I tried thereafter didn’t go black. I wonder if it’s something the website has to add? Is it a CSS thing?
Ordinarily yes, you get dark mode by using a CSS theme - in this case the AA is actually a reading mode, won't be available on all pages except for the text heavy one. Basically extracts the text and primary images and cuts out the rest + dark when you have a dark theme.
[doublepost=1561507086][/doublepost]
Just like with Mojave, only the websites that support Apple’s dark theme in their code (and design) will be dark. So, for example, www.sixcolors.com will be dark or light depending on your OS setting, but the majority of websites most likely won’t (sadly).
The night mode option on iOS Firefox is semi decent, usual CSS style implementation, but baked in and enabled with a switch.
 

aevan

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Feb 5, 2015
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The night mode option on iOS Firefox is semi decent, usual CSS style implementation, but baked in and enabled with a switch.
Didn’t know that - but still, I don’t think that’s the way Apple is doing it. I think they left it to website developers. So, more Apple focused sites like macstories.net will support it and others probably won’t.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G3
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
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The website need to support dark mode. Some already do, but not a lot in my experience. It's not up to Apple.


It can be done without the website supporting anything. Smart invert doesn't require the website to support it, it just inverts colors and doesn't invert graphics and in my experience it rarely gets it wrong. Also consider Samsung's browser on Android, it has a dark mode that also darkens webpages universally, works really good as well.

I have a feeling Apple isn't building it this way, that's a huge shame as it would automatically mean virtually every website would automatically work instead of just the ones with dark modes. I have a feeling also that ironically I will have to enable smart invert to get dark webpages when I'm in the dark theme, which knowing Apple will invert the dark theme to be light!

I guess I don't get why they would give us a dark theme but then not give us dark webpages as well. I'm not going to hold my breath that every single webpage, or even the vast majority of them will enable their dark mode to work with iOS safari.
 
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m.wttfld

macrumors member
Jun 12, 2019
40
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Germany
Because Content aware inverting can bring wrong results. It‘s not really hard for Safari to make a difference between images and text/controls/other elements, but on some websites, it brings up wrong results. So Apple trys to push out a new standard (that already exists for some time), so every website has a true dark mode, with all elements converted correctly.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G3
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
9,356
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Because Content aware inverting can bring wrong results. It‘s not really hard for Safari to make a difference between images and text/controls/other elements, but on some websites, it brings up wrong results. So Apple trys to push out a new standard (that already exists for some time), so every website has a true dark mode, with all elements converted correctly.
I've been very impressed with the inversion method across many platforms and can't remember the last time this was an issue. 1) windows high contrast mode 2) Dark reader extension for desktop browsers 3) Apple's smart invert 4) Samsung browser on Android. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones I've very familiar with.

I do appreciate Apple's push for a new standard, and definitely agree it's the best solution IF everyone were to follow it. Unfortunately it will only be a tiny handful of web devs which will adhere to these standards compared to the vast ocean of webpages out there. Like you said, this standard already exists, and how many web devs have converted their webpages to a dark theme? Certainly not Macrumors, among most likely millions of others. I can't see it being overly difficult for Apple to just incorporate a toggle in Safari settings allowing you to smart invert webpages independent of the theme. The smart invert function is already there and works wonderfully, why not utilize it?

PS: I've been browsing Macrumors, a bafflingly overly white overly bright website, with the dark reader extension for years and it works perfectly, I have zero issues with it. Works perfectly with smart invert on my iphone/ipad as well.
 
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MEJHarrison

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,352
1,159
Apple took an interesting approach for sure. But if supported, it's truly the better option. Better for the designer of the site to build a dark mode into it than a computer trying to do it automatically. A human hand-crafting site to look great in dark mode will just always do better. There's a lot more to it than simply reversing colors.
 
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saberahul

macrumors 68040
Nov 6, 2008
3,599
85
USA
I didn’t read earlier responses so this may have been covered, but can confirm that it works on macstories.net; thus, if the website supports it, it will work on webpages also.
 

m.wttfld

macrumors member
Jun 12, 2019
40
20
Germany
I didn’t read earlier responses so this may have been covered, but can confirm that it works on macstories.net; thus, if the website supports it, it will work on webpages also.
Of course! Thank's for the link, great example! That looks 1000 times cleaner than client computed dark mode. And like we now from previous standards Apple adopted to, we will see many new webpages with real darkmode. I think wordpress will also get an update, so we will see this on many many sites, because it's the most common CMS/blog backend rn.
 

steve23094

macrumors 68030
Apr 23, 2013
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I didn’t read earlier responses so this may have been covered, but can confirm that it works on macstories.net; thus, if the website supports it, it will work on webpages also.
Thanks for the tip. The background is grey though isn’t it? I would prefer a true black background otherwise we will never see the hoped for battery savings on OLED.
 
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OVERTASK

macrumors 6502
Sep 17, 2013
374
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∞o
Didn’t know that - but still, I don’t think that’s the way Apple is doing it. I think they left it to website developers. So, more Apple focused sites like macstories.net will support it and others probably won’t.
Yes, that is done slightly differently and does depend on the website dev. It checks a user's "prefers-color-scheme" (options being "light", "dark", "no-preference") and if a dark theme is available + not default anyway, it will show the dark theme.

On the bright dark side, other desktop browsers support this (Live on FF, dev on Edge/Chrome) and upcoming real dark mode on Android Q should speed up adoption of websites with a dark theme even without an Apple oriented audience.
 

x-evil-x

macrumors 601
Jul 13, 2008
4,483
2,222
It can be done without the website supporting anything. Smart invert doesn't require the website to support it, it just inverts colors and doesn't invert graphics and in my experience it rarely gets it wrong. Also consider Samsung's browser on Android, it has a dark mode that also darkens webpages universally, works really good as well.

I have a feeling Apple isn't building it this way, that's a huge shame as it would automatically mean virtually every website would automatically work instead of just the ones with dark modes. I have a feeling also that ironically I will have to enable smart invert to get dark webpages when I'm in the dark theme, which knowing Apple will invert the dark theme to be light!

I guess I don't get why they would give us a dark theme but then not give us dark webpages as well. I'm not going to hold my breath that every single webpage, or even the vast majority of them will enable their dark mode to work with iOS safari.
too bad with smart invert on and dark mode enabled it looks like crap. The dock looks bad, safari top and bottom bezels look grey. It looks good on normal light theme but switching back and forth is too much work for me to remember to do all the time.
 
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spinedoc77

macrumors G3
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
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too bad with smart invert on and dark mode enabled it looks like crap. The dock looks bad, safari top and bottom bezels look grey. It looks good on normal light theme but switching back and forth is too much work for me to remember to do all the time.
Odd, I don't get that at all. Dock looks exactly the same and in Safari top and bottom look semi transparent black, bottom pop up is semi transparent black with orange lettering. I agree it's a pain to switch back and forth, which is why I think they need to just have an option to always invert web pages regardless of the theme. It's going to look worse as it is currently because to get dark webpages I'm going to have to turn smart invert on, which will most likely lead to the dark theme also inverting to become light!
[doublepost=1561648236][/doublepost]
Apple took an interesting approach for sure. But if supported, it's truly the better option. Better for the designer of the site to build a dark mode into it than a computer trying to do it automatically. A human hand-crafting site to look great in dark mode will just always do better. There's a lot more to it than simply reversing colors.
I agree, IF every web dev did this. But when 99% of the web doesn't do this, you will find that having the website not display in dark mode at all is much worse than having it inverted. Although as I've mentioned, it's not like inverted websites look bad at all, in fact they look quite good and I doubt handcrafting them will make them look much better. It's not like Apple is doing away with smart invert, they just need to add a toggle to let us enable it to always on with webpages.
 
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x-evil-x

macrumors 601
Jul 13, 2008
4,483
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Odd, I don't get that at all. Dock looks exactly the same and in Safari top and bottom look semi transparent black, bottom pop up is semi transparent black with orange lettering. I agree it's a pain to switch back and forth, which is why I think they need to just have an option to always invert web pages regardless of the theme. It's going to look worse as it is currently because to get dark webpages I'm going to have to turn smart invert on, which will most likely lead to the dark theme also inverting to become light!
[doublepost=1561648236][/doublepost]

I agree, IF every web dev did this. But when 99% of the web doesn't do this, you will find that having the website not display in dark mode at all is much worse than having it inverted. Although as I've mentioned, it's not like inverted websites look bad at all, in fact they look quite good and I doubt handcrafting them will make them look much better. It's not like Apple is doing away with smart invert, they just need to add a toggle to let us enable it to always on with webpages.
Are you using smart invert or just invert? On black theme?
Edit- just tested it again the dock is an off grey color as well as safari top and bottom bezels
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G3
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
9,356
3,375
Are you using smart invert or just invert? On black theme?
Edit- just tested it again the dock is an off grey color as well as safari top and bottom bezels
Smart invert with a black background, but I'm not on the beta just iOS12. Does it mess up in the beta? It makes sense if it does, that's pretty much my point. To get dark websites you have to turn on smart invert, which will then take the dark theme elements and make them light.
 

SoYoung

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2015
859
347
Thats why I think smart invert is way better than the dark mode. Safari pages are still normal, news in the news app are still in white etc. At least in macOS mojave we can use Safari extensions to make everything dark. So until iOS support extensions I'll just continue to use the light theme with the accessibility shortcut for invert colours when needed or if its just a browser issue you can use Firefox and activate the dark theme and it will do a decent job to make everything dark but personally I don't like it that much because it also dim images.
 

UKapple73

macrumors 6502
Sep 13, 2014
289
269
I recommend you all try a browser called “Berry dark browser” yes silly name, but it’s the absolute best browser for proper dark mode I’ve tried. And I’ve tried loads. I find most of them get the inverting all wrong in pictures etc, whereas this one gets it right 90% of the time
It’s about 3 dollars I think