Dead 10 Month Old Mac Pro

[nanofrog]

...I once saw a buddy's UPS report crazy fluctuations between 114-117V AC

This is common, if not a larger differential between the low and high values.

I'm hesitant to suggest counting on the average household UPS to provide true lightning protection when suddenly confronted by billions of joules of energy. Some components in UPSes are pretty cheaply made and low quality. Or over time, they may degrade providing less protection than expected. Then there's other things about how they're designed such as amount of time elapses before it stops the surge.

They use the same parts (& basic design) as surge suppressors for that function; MOV's (Metal Oxide Varisistor). The overall amount of energy that can be handled should be listed in the specs.

If you're paranoid, you can take a decent surge suppressor and then plug in the UPS. It could even increase the lifespan of the MOV's in the UPS, as the signal would hit the surge suppressor first. But MOV's can't help in the event of a sustained high voltage situation, and lightning strikes are rare, especially when compared to the occurance rate of brown-outs, where the UPS is what you need.

I look at it this way. Worst case, the UPS is far cheaper to replace than a system, especially if it's a workstation or server.

 

[dgm]

UPDATE: Apple Store has now had my Mac Pro for 14 DAYS!!!! They quoted me 5-7 days when I dropped it of, were 25 min late on my APPOINTMENT time and now 14 days into it, they are still telling me that it's on the bench and they'll call me when it's done, but have no way of predicting when it'll be ready. They've been giving me this exact line for 5 days now. I am beyond frustrated and seriously questioning my move from PC to Mac. Any advice on how I should proceed? This is ridiculous. This is a $4000 machine we're talking about here, not a POS. ...and I rely on it for my business.

 

[nanofrog]

UPDATE: Apple Store has now had my Mac Pro for 14 DAYS!!!! They quoted me 5-7 days when I dropped it of, were 25 min late on my APPOINTMENT time and now 14 days into it, they are still telling me that it's on the bench and they'll call me when it's done, but have no way of predicting when it'll be ready. They've been giving me this exact line for 5 days now. I am beyond frustrated and seriously questioning my move from PC to Mac. Any advice on how I should proceed? This is ridiculous. This is a $4000 machine we're talking about here, not a POS. ...and I rely on it for my business.

Perhaps you could call Apple, and ask to speak with others further up the chain, as they may be able to expidite the shipping of repair parts. They could even opt to send you a new machine, but I doubt it, as I assume this is the first time you've sent in the machine. But of utmost importance, be polite.

Beyond that, you'll end up waiting it out I think.

You should go ahead and get the Apple Care, no matter what happens, as their repair costs are high. The parts are expensive, and many cost as much or more than the cost of the extention of coverage. Well worth doing it.

 

[Wotan31]

Well, one of the most common brands of UPS units is APC.

Yes, and APC is also one of the worst. They have abysmal surge ratings, and they set their battery float voltage too high, which kills the battery in about 3 years. Those batteries should last 6 or 7 years, but due to the too-high float, they die very soon. They do this deliberately, so they can sell more batteries. Also on some of the more common models, it costs just as much to buy a new UPS than it does to buy just the battery!! It's a complete scam. I would never buy an APC product.

Having a UPS is really all you can do as far as protection goes.

No! Having a UPS corrects over/under voltage situations by switching from mains power to battery + inverter power. That's all they do. Their surge protection is usually pretty terrible, and they don't do true line conditioning. If you want REAL surge protection, buy something like a Brick Wall and put it inline before the UPS.

Also the inexpensive consumer UPS's do *NOT* perform true line conditioning. Anything in their defined "normal" voltage range of ~90v - 140v is passed through unaltered. Dirty noisy power that deviates from 60hz and contains lots of line noise passed through to your equipment so long as it falls within the defined "normal" voltage range. Only once it dips below the low threshold, or exceeds the high threshold does the battery and inverter kick in. If you want TRUE line conditioning, you need something that runs exclusively off of its own internal inverter, 100% of the time, and only uses the mains A/C for charging the battery. Those are the best kind of system, they generate their own 60hz sine wave, independent of the mains power. But those are also a lot more pricey.

If you want clean power, you need a line conditioner, like this. This will generate its own 60hz sine wave and voltage and give you very very clean power.

The absolute best setup is A/C Outlet -> Brick Wall -> UPS -> line conditioner -> your equipment. You can buy "all in one" surge/ups/conditioners but they are designed for commercial and medical use and cost as much as your whole computer.

 

[nanofrog]

Yes, and APC is also one of the worst. They have abysmal surge ratings, and they set their battery float voltage too high, which kills the battery in about 3 years. Those batteries should last 6 or 7 years, but due to the too-high float, they die very soon. They do this deliberately, so they can sell more batteries. Also on some of the more common models, it costs just as much to buy a new UPS than it does to buy just the battery!! It's a complete scam. I would never buy an APC product.

I've not had them last that long in more recent models (3 - 5 years is about it, not 6 -7). The batteries aren't that substantial anyways (i.e. cheaply made, so they're using smaller/thinner plates). But they can be had via 3rd party sources inexpensively, compared to a new unit (at least the models I've used).

No! Having a UPS corrects over/under voltage situations by switching from mains power to battery + inverter power. That's all they do. Their surge protection is usually pretty terrible, and they don't do true line conditioning. If you want REAL surge protection, buy something like a Brick Wall and put it inline before the UPS.

Some are more than just a "switch type", but are by no means cheap. The version I'm reffering to are those that always run off the batteries + inverter (what I've always known as a "Full Time UPS").

The surge suppressors are lousy IMO on the consumer models, and is why adding a decent surge suppressor isn't a bad idea. Inexpensive products means there's corners cut somewhere...

Also the inexpensive consumer UPS's do *NOT* perform true line conditioning. Anything in their defined "normal" voltage range of ~90v - 140v is passed through unaltered. Dirty noisy power that deviates from 60hz and contains lots of line noise passed through to your equipment so long as it falls within the defined "normal" voltage range. Only once it dips below the low threshold, or exceeds the high threshold does the battery and inverter kick in. If you want TRUE line conditioning, you need something that runs exclusively off of its own internal inverter, 100% of the time, and only uses the mains A/C for charging the battery. Those are the best kind of system, they generate their own 60hz sine wave, independent of the mains power. But those are also a lot more pricey.

Ah. We are on the same page as per the differences, but cost is always an issue.

At least the cheap ones are better than nothing at all in terms of brown-out protection. I've seen more damaged electronics from this by far compared to surges. The biggest surge (lightning strike) I recall, took out the FDA's network a few years ago in the S.E. US (toasted equipment <NIC's on boards, switches,...> in a couple of states).

You can buy "all in one" surge/ups/conditioners but they are designed for commercial and medical use and cost as much as your whole computer.

Definitely not most people's idea of "inexpensive".

 

[seadragon]

Well, I was talking about the average joe like me and having a UPS is a pretty normal thing to do to protect a setup at home.

Stating that APC is the worst is a rather blanket statement. They make a large range of units from cheap power bar types up to server room units. The BackUPS line is different form the SmartUPS line etc. We have a large APC Symmetra in our server room and it's been fine for years.

Like anything, you spend more $, you get better quality.

 

[dgm]

Thought I'd provide an update to this situation. After taking 14 days to get my power supply replaced at the apple store (nearly 2 hours drive away), the unit worked for about a week and then died again. An apple service man spent 2 days in a row at my house trying to fix it and couldn't. So, Apple sent me a new, updated version of the Mac Pro (faster processors, more apple RAM, Better Video Cards, bigger/faster HD). I just have to ship them my old unit now.

 

[iamcheerful]

Thought I'd provide an update to this situation. After taking 14 days to get my power supply replaced at the apple store (nearly 2 hours drive away), the unit worked for about a week and then died again. An apple service man spent 2 days in a row at my house trying to fix it and couldn't. So, Apple sent me a new, updated version of the Mac Pro (faster processors, more apple RAM, Better Video Cards, bigger/faster HD). I just have to ship them my old unit now.

Thanks for the update. That's really a wonderful update. So, have you decided to go with ACPP (Apple Care Protection Plan)?

 

[akadmon]

Stupid question: is the PSU on a Mac Pro considered user replaceable?

I've had Apple Care for almost 3 years now, and while I've never had to use it for repairs (knock knock), I've called Apple support many times after the first year and gotten excellent help. Truth be told, though, most of these calls were about issues not specific to the Mac Pro and I could have used Apple Care on my daughter's MBP to get help. I just bought a MBP for my other daughter, so I still have almost 3 more years of general Apple Care coming for help with the OS issues and such

Mac Pros are a lot more reliable than laptops (that is why Apple Care on a Mac Pro is less expensive than on a MBP, even though the latter may be half the price of the former). If you have other newer Macs or plan to buy a laptop for yourself or a family member, I would suggest taking the risk of not getting Apple Care for the Mac Pro. A lot of the repairs can be done by yourself, and with a community like Macrumors (and Apple's own user forums) helpful advice is never far away. And for everything else you can use the Apple Care on your other, more fragile computer(s).

 

[dgm]

Yes, I did buy Apple Care for the old one, which is being refunded now and I'll buy a new plan for the new Mac Pro.

I can see the point about getting the AC for the more delicate notebooks, but my Mac Pro is my primary workstation for my business. I simply cannot afford for it to be down any longer than necessary while I self-diagnose and self-repair. Those days are over for me. I think that ended when I moved from self-built PC's to the Mac Pro. Simply put, an 11 month old $4500 workstation should absolutely not require me to perform any repairs on it whatsoever. ...and considering that the power supply alone is at least as expensive as the AC plan... it just makes sense.

 

[akadmon]

Yes of course, you are right to buy Apple Care. You could easily lose in one day what it costs to pay for Apple Care. My MP is just another of my toys.