Dear Tim, I find your El Capitan problematic and disappointing

Discussion in 'OS X El Capitan (10.11)' started by BuleepMan, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. BuleepMan, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015

    BuleepMan macrumors member


    Jun 5, 2008
    San Diego
    Before the beta police start replying to my posting, YES, I know I am running beta software and I know there could be and will be issues. I have El Capitan installed on an external WD Passport HD, a second 512 GB SSD in my Macbook Pro and a second 1.5 TB partition on my iMac's 3T Fusion Drive. It is not installed on my well working Yosemite 10.10.5 HDs, the ones I use as my working HDs.

    Dear Tim Cook and/or anyone at Apple who cares about your customers,

    I have beta tested Mavericks, Yosemite and now El Capitan. I can say that my experience with El Capitan has not been fun and I continue to have major issues even in public beta 5. I should have predicted my problems with the beta 1 install which caused a kernel panic on my MacBook Pro upon restarting.

    I have lost count of the number of times I have had to reformat, download and reinstall an El Capitan beta after it was thoroughly trashed because of crashes. El Capitan seems slow, very slow at times with the frequent appearance of the dreaded spinning but redesigned beach ball. Just yesterday, I was typing a simple document in Pages and every 30 seconds or so, the beach ball spun. I get these periodic slowdowns where web pages won't load, programs launch slowly, the Finder takes forever to populate a screen and the beachball just seems to show up at random times. I've tried restarting the programs but the slowness remains until I restart El Capitan. Then El Capitan with the same exact configuration takes twice as long to boot up compared to Yosemite 10.10.5 even from a SSD. Launching your App Store program is exhausting. That little spinning thingie just spins and spins and spins sometimes never displaying a menu.

    And then there is Mail. The El Capitan's Mail program has finally convinced me to switch to Postbox. Mail v9 simply would not consistently connect to any of my Yahoo accounts. It was not Yahoo's fault since other PC's and other OS's connected fine. The current version of Mail is dreadful and Tim Cook, you should be ashamed of the people hired to write it. It is mind boggling that a v9 program would have so many bugs, be so slow and have constant connectivity problems. And it still has less features than its predecessors. Once Mail crashed and took out El Capitan with it. I tried restarting my machine and it would not boot. I switched to Postbox and the speed is incredible. It has never failed to connect to any of my 6 email accounts. It just works. Good bye Mail forever.

    And please don't get me started on SIP. I can see the need for more OS security but all or nothing is an incredibly poor choice. I am lost without TotalFinder, a program that makes Finder 10.11 what it should have been 5 OS X versions ago. I just opened the About Finder to check the Finder version number and I got the spinning beachball for 5 seconds. Grr! Apple should have a method for legitimate developers to get access to the underlying code in El Capitan. It is ridiculous to shut out developers who have spent a great many hours making my Mac experience better.

    Tim Cook:

    • You should be ashamed of your El Capitan programmers. So far El Capitan has been the worst experience I have ever had with any releases of regular or beta versions of OS X.
    • You should be ashamed of Mail. You should be ashamed of Messages which currently will not exchange messages with friends. Messages on my iPad works just find.
    • You should be ashamed for producing new versions of programs with more bugs and less features than previous versions.
    • You should be ashamed for designing an OS which blocks loyal and talented developers from updating their software.
    • Why are you letting the experience of loyal users regress and then why do you ignore our complaints?
    Let's face it, the Mac is the only real computer Apple produces. iOS and OS Watch are distance cousins when compared to OS X. Why is El Capitan so poor?

    Sincerely, Jim

    PS: Note my signature below. I have a fairly quick i5 MacBook Pro and lightening fast, top of the line i7 iMac. I have tons of RAM and plenty of free, fast HD space. My hardware is not causing the problems.
  2. Reality4711 macrumors 6502a


    Aug 8, 2009
    So far Jim,

    Mail works great (Yahoo, Gmail, BT)
    Browsing is faultless (within slow connection limits)
    UI smooth.
    Apps opening very quick(compared to YOS)
    Apps functioning with some odd glitches (reported)
    WiFi and inter hardware comms. set up without difficulty (in fact email accounts working better on test laptop than Yosemite main machine).
    Not a so called 'power user' but so far everything I have called on has proved remarkably reliable for any Beta.

    Personally I would still like to be running Snow Leopard; on my nMP it would be perfect for me. However I think/hope that El C looks like the nearest I am going to get. For me less complexity and more speed are the goal, so more features just kinda get in the way but if I can run with out them getting in the way or on my nerves everything else looks fine.


  3. Morpheo macrumors 65816


    Feb 26, 2014
    What is the purpose of addressing this "letter" to Tim Cook? :rolleyes:
  4. dwfaust macrumors 601


    Jul 3, 2011
    Because, everybody knows that Tim and [every]one at Apple who cares about [their] customers reads rants on the many Apple-centric forums. That's why they're so highly paid - not to run a company, but to search out random rants on forums.
  5. RandomKamikaze macrumors 6502a


    Jan 8, 2009
    In contrast to your experience, I am running the latest Dev release on a 2008 Macbook Pro (the one with an Intel Core 2 Duo) and 8GB RAM and don't have any of your problems and will often forget that this is a beta.

    Anyway, I'll just wait for Tim to respond. I'm sure he'll be along in a minute
  6. Rclark03 macrumors newbie


    Aug 1, 2015
    Jim, have you tried re-installing El Capitan? Based on the lack of shared sentiment I would try starting there. I run my 2009 MacBook Pro with El Capitan as my main OS with no, major, issue and my computer appears to run faster even. I did experience some issue when creating and removing partitions, so El Capitan may have an occasional issue with partitions that might cause a drop in performance.
  7. gernot.kogler macrumors newbie

    Nov 13, 2014
    While I do not all the problems mentioned above, El Capitan is not completely smooth on my rMB 1.3. Yesterday, the kernel process suddenly took 200% CPU and I got a thermal warning while browsing some simple text websites. And I can confirm the beach ball showing every 30 Seconds or so. A reboot helps then.
    It's beta so I hope all these issues will be fixed before release. But I don't get it that some people claim to have zero problems since I'm not doing much on my rMB. And I have to reboot it every other day to run smooth. And I don't have any funky extensions installed, just plain EL plus some well known apps.
  8. Shirasaki macrumors 604


    May 16, 2015
    Compared with Yosemite, which crashes completely five times in six months, El Capitan is much more stable than that.

    I admit system responsiveness is poor now, but at least it doesn't crash that easily. I remember the OS X notes app never goes up in Yosemite. Now in El Capitan, I can finally use it on OS X.

    I have multiple outlook and exchange accounts. None of them has serious connectivity issues. I also have gmail accounts, with few serious issues.

    So I look forward to the final result of El Capitan, and hope it can be another legendary snow leopard OS X.

    By the way, I know nothing about snow leopard. I use OS X from Yosemite. This is my first beta testing experience. And time machine backup and restore works really great. It saves me countless hours on reinstalling system and doing reconfiguration.
  9. petvas macrumors 601


    Jul 20, 2006
    Mannheim, Germany
    This is a pointless thread. This is beta software and it is not released to public yet. You will have a right to complain if Apple releases it in this state. As long as the software has the beta status, you shouldn't be posting such threads.
    Have you posted bug reports for all issues you are dealing with? Do you have legitimate access to the betas?
  10. matreya macrumors 65816


    Nov 14, 2009
    It's clear to me that given El Capitan works pretty well for most of us, that OP's problem is that he has residual crap from previous versions of OS X. Doing a clean install and starting from scratch is probably his best bet
  11. redheeler macrumors 604


    Oct 17, 2014
    If you haven't already, try a clean install of it. Your experience with 10.11 doesn't match mine or other people on this forum.

    Also, SIP can be disabled in the Recovery OS.
  12. sualpine macrumors 6502


    May 13, 2013
    Filed under "People that complain and like the previous release" folder.
    People that hated 10.11, also hated 10.10, and also hated 10.09, and so on.
    Then all the sudden they love 10.10 when 10.11 comes out, etc.
  13. Reality4711 macrumors 6502a


    Aug 8, 2009
    I only run my MB Air for about 2hrs daily but I can confirm my previous post on lack of problems. Each to their own.

    Snow Leopard was my favourite OS so far but as I say speed and simplicity are my measurements of success.


  14. mpfuchs macrumors 6502


    Sep 19, 2014
    And that's probably the reason why they don't have enough time to develop their software...
  15. flowrider macrumors 603


    Nov 23, 2012
    My experience with EL Cap has been GREAT! I have also tested previous Betas of OS releases. This is the first time I have been using a Beta as my Main OS, since PB1. Each PB has gotten better than the last one, and this one is the best and most trouble fee so far.

    Calendar finally works! My only issues are:

    1. Adobe Bridge CS6 (V5.0.2) will no linger recognize my camera, a Canon 7D. I can however download photos to Apple's Photos and then work with them in Photoshop CS6.

    2. TechTool Pro 8.02 is now partly workable. The Tests are now available for use, but the Tool Box is not.

    All is GOOD

  16. dogslobber macrumors 68040


    Oct 19, 2014
    Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
    None of your points are relevant to beta software. If they exist in the 10.11.0 build then maybe you can complain. But beta software can, will and does have and always will have problems. That's why it's called BETA and not called RELEASE.

    The issue isn't to whine about it but to file bug reports with Apple for issues found. They'll get resolved in the next beta as it's an iterative process.
  17. dianeoforegon macrumors 6502a


    Apr 26, 2011
    I find El Capitan to be very stable. I've rarely booted back into Yosemite since the first PB.

    Did you use migration to bring over your data after installing El Capitan? If yes, try a clean install and do not use migration. Setup Mail from scratch.
  18. bbfc macrumors 68030


    Oct 22, 2011
    Newcastle Great Park, England.
    Nothing but praise for El Capitan on my 4 year old MacBook Pro. Very smooth when compared to Yosemite. I don't even have an SSD.

    I'm sorry you're having problems, but what you describe is not common.
  19. Spink10 Suspended


    Nov 3, 2011

    Hopefully you have already sent it to Tim - since its address to him...
  20. torana355 macrumors 68030

    Dec 8, 2009
    Sydney, Australia
    Ive got el Capitan running on both my machines and its the best OS apple have released so far imo.
  21. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    Dear Jim,

    (I am not Tim Cook but I will still comment on your message :p )

    First of all, I am sorry that you are experiencing issues. I hope though that you realise that your problems are isolated and most likely have their roots in botched installation, hardware issues or some sort of third party software that is causing instability. Millions of Apple users are using 10.11 Beta without having these issues.
    Now, point to point:

    As stated above, this is isolated to your experience and does not in any way reflect El Capitan as an OS. I understand that you are frustrated and annoyed, but you also need to understand that 1 person in several thousands that is having issues is perfectly acceptable and is not more than a statistical fluke.

    See above. Mail 9 is amazing. Fastest and most reliable Mail ever made by Apple. I have tried out every major alternative over the last few years, no other mail application even comes close to it in terms of convenience. Yes, some of them have more features. But I don't need obscure features if the basic ones are a PITA to use.

    I am really not sure what you are referring to here. 10.11 brings tons of feature updates to the stock apps. Look at Notes, Mail or Calendar

    I guess you are referring to SIP. It is quite entertaining to see how people who obviously lack basic understanding of the technical side of OS X jump to conclusions. First of all, the only thing SIP protects are files where neither you nor any of the 'loyal developers' have business to go. Apple offers you are rich set of APIs to customise your experience without the need to hack and mess with the system files. If by 'loyal and talented developers' you mean TotalFinder, well, here is what I think. First of all, apps like TotalFinder are unsupported hacks which abuse the OS to inject custom code all over the place. In my opinion, they should spend their time on developing their own file manager rather than hacking Apple's stock one, and potentially introducing vulnerabilities and instability in the process. That said, apps like TotalFinder usually rely on unsupported internal plugin API, so its quite likely that it will start working again once they find out how to use it with 10.11. It seems that other dev (like the folks behind MailTags) have beta versions of their software that works with SIP. Either way, most issues developers are having with SIP is either because a) they are injecting their own code into system files (which is obviously a horrific things from security standpoint) or b) they are simply trying to install their apps to where they don't belong.

    They are not and they are not. Apple team has been extremely quick in replying to my bug reports and they have been working hard to locate the bugs in the new WiFi stack of OS X that led to issues with wireless network within my organisation. By now, they have fully resolved every bug I have submitted.
  22. CmdrLaForge macrumors 601


    Feb 26, 2003
    around the world
    Sorry to hear that you have such bad experience. I cannot complain a lot about the captain. The only bug is the missing QuickTime plugin. As always ymmv
  23. timothevs macrumors 6502


    Nov 17, 2007
    Dear Jim,

    You are using it wrong.

    - Tim
  24. HenryDJP macrumors 603

    Nov 25, 2012
    United States
    You have over 4000 posts since you joined in 2006. I have over 4000 posts since I joined in 2012. The OP has only 41 posts since he/she joined in 2008. So after 7 years there's only 41 posts and the OP makes one of them this type of rant? When threads like this arise from low post count members that have been here for many years, there's an agenda.

    That being said, I wait to pass judgement on something long after it hits the streets.
  25. Lat_great macrumors newbie

    Jan 11, 2016
    --- Post Merged, Jan 11, 2016 ---

    I feel your pain I made the switch recently and have been having nothing but issue.

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