Death Of A MDD

Dronecatcher

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 17, 2014
3,755
3,706
Lincolnshire, UK
Well it had to happen........
Whilst working on some music in Propellerheads Reason, it had been 10 minutes since I last saved and then the sound began to stutter like a machine gun as Terminal text rolled down the screen announcing a very hard crash.
A reboot confirmed my track hadn't auto-saved and within minutes it was crashing again.
So, after a hour of trying a service disk, trying to get into Open Firmware, removing RAM sticks one by one, disconnecting the hard drive etc I concluded it's the motherboard at fault and/or the CPU or power supply, and therefore not economical to remedy.
So, after removing everything that's transferable, I emptied the case with a view to using it for something - the case is just to classy to be discarded.
I have no reason to complain - the MDD came with 2GB RAM and 2 hard drives and only cost me £10 and it's function as a music computer has immediately been taken over by my spare Dual G5.
I only mention this, as in all the years I've been using Macs (must be 50 plus since 2000) this is the first one that's gone down and failed.
I've had glitches here and there but nothing beyond an easy fix - so, this stands as a testament to the robustness of these machines.
 
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LightBulbFun

macrumors 68020
Nov 17, 2013
2,332
2,283
London UK
well dont get rid of the parts im sure others here could use them (PSUs and CPU cards for upgrading lower end models) is yours a FW800 or FW400 model? also you never did (going by your post any how) check if the graphics card was at fault :)
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
22,517
15,397
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
My mom gifted me with a TiBook for Christmas 2001. You may have heard the story so I'll just say that the death of that TiBook (the first time, it had three deaths) was what started my journey with 17" PowerBooks.

From November 2009 to mid-2010 I ended up with both the first 17" PB and the last model (the 1.67 DLSD). Ultimately that led here.

But had that TiBook not died I'd probably still be using it and have nothing else.
 

gargantu

macrumors newbie
May 2, 2016
18
0
Since you've dissembled the Mac, do you still have the PSU? My 1.25 MDD is having issues turning on when an Cinema HD display is connected to the ADC port and everyone tells me it's likely the PSU (even though I've tested it and it doesn't seem to have any issues) so I could use another one. Haven't found any recently on ebay though hence me asking.
 

Dronecatcher

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 17, 2014
3,755
3,706
Lincolnshire, UK
well dont get rid of the parts im sure others here could use them (PSUs and CPU cards for upgrading lower end models) is yours a FW800 or FW400 model? also you never did (going by your post any how) check if the graphics card was at fault :)
Unfortunately, as I couldn't establish what the fault was so I've thrown out the bits I can't use - I never pass on hardware unless I'm 100% sure of it's functionality.
I guess a faulty GPU could have been the issue but I didn't have another card to put in to try out - I suppose I could have attempted to login remotely but it wasn't networked. Oh well.
[doublepost=1463840750][/doublepost]
My mom gifted me with a TiBook for Christmas 2001. You may have heard the story so I'll just say that the death of that TiBook (the first time, it had three deaths) was what started my journey with 17" PowerBooks.

From November 2009 to mid-2010 I ended up with both the first 17" PB and the last model (the 1.67 DLSD). Ultimately that led here.

But had that TiBook not died I'd probably still be using it and have nothing else.
Yeah, I guess because I had another Mac lined up to take over I didn't need to fix it at any cost. That and I'm impatient and just wanted to get back to the track I was working on ;)
[doublepost=1463840918][/doublepost]
Since you've dissembled the Mac, do you still have the PSU? My 1.25 MDD is having issues turning on when an Cinema HD display is connected to the ADC port and everyone tells me it's likely the PSU (even though I've tested it and it doesn't seem to have any issues) so I could use another one. Haven't found any recently on ebay though hence me asking.
Sorry, as I said, I couldn't guarantee it to be 100% - postage (particularly to the US) would be outlandish for a unit that might be broke.
 

gargantu

macrumors newbie
May 2, 2016
18
0
I'm in the UK like yourself so postage wouldn't be an issue and just to say I've only ever seen kernel panics result from dodgy core hardware (not counting the PSU as "core" hardware that is). Could have been anything from the logic board to the Hard Drive but I doubt the PSU was the culprit but ah well never mind.
 

Dronecatcher

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 17, 2014
3,755
3,706
Lincolnshire, UK
I'm in the UK like yourself so postage wouldn't be an issue and just to say I've only ever seen kernel panics result from dodgy core hardware (not counting the PSU as "core" hardware that is). Could have been anything from the logic board to the Hard Drive but I doubt the PSU was the culprit but ah well never mind.
I know thinking it's the PSU is a bit counter intuitive but I was going along the lines of it if it wasn't suppling enough power or the power was fluctuating it might cause havoc for the CPU. 13 year old hardware...anything's possible.
 

gargantu

macrumors newbie
May 2, 2016
18
0
Yea anything's possible, very true, especially with these particular macs it seems. Still it wouldn't have mattered to me even if your PSU was faulty as if I plugged it in to mine and the Mac turned on OK I'd then know my PSU was also faulty and I could rebuild it based on that knowledge, and if I plugged your PSU into my Mac and it exhibited the exact same issue as I'm having now I could potentially rule out the PSU altogether as being the cause of my issues. Even if your PSU then caused mine to kernal panic, I wouldn't care because I would already know if it was or wasn't my PSU that was the problem, if you catch my drift. Right now that kind of trial and error is all I can do to diagnose my issues because I can't test the PSU beyond standard voltage tests which isn't ideal.
 

G4fanboy

macrumors 6502
Mar 9, 2013
297
172
Andalucia Spain
One man's garbage is another one treasure.

I have a MDD dual 867 with a rage 128 ADC that could have benefited from either your motherboard (166 bus vs 133 in mine) GPU and the CPU daughter board. I bought 4 years ago a Dual GHz QS'02 CPU board with the heatsink and the clips for 40pounds+ 20 shipping to Spain.

You are keeping the only PowerMac G4 box really hard to mod for installing a mATX PC board. From the G3 B&W to the QS all can hold a standard mATX board modding the standoffs. Also, the PSU from all but the MDD have ATX dimensions.

In your country:
http://www.thelaserhive.com/kits/powermac-g4-conversion-products/early-g4g3-kits/

http://www.thelaserhive.com/product/quicksilver-kit/

Also, for the MDD PSU, you could build yourself/buy from http://atxg4.com/ the MDD cable http://atxg4.com/mdd.html . I assume you do not use an ADC monitor.
 
Last edited:

oi!

Suspended
Jan 10, 2016
288
31
For reasons I do not understand, if you put a slower CPU daughter board (such as the dual 867mMhz) onto
a 166mhz bus motherboard, it down clocks it to be a 133mhz motherboard.
This isn't permanent and will return to being a 166mhz bus motherboard when you fit a faster CPU daughter board (such as the single 1.25Ghz).
(be aware, there are some 1.0Ghz daughter boards that run 166mhz and some that run 133mhz)

I read (a while ago, and not very attentively) somewhere on the net, that it is possible to up clock the mobo to 172 Mhz or even 200mhz, by changing the quartz cristal oscillator. I can't find it anywhere now though. :(


Also, remember the ram would need to be PC2700 to run on the 166mhz bus, or the mac will not boot up (i will beep at you, and flash the power on light at you, but not boot)
 

G4fanboy

macrumors 6502
Mar 9, 2013
297
172
Andalucia Spain
No, I'm not keeping the case for that although I haven't ruled out maybe putting a Raspberry or Android box in there in the future.
Raspberry have translucent boxes in the coloured iMac G3 line.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2984.0.html Check some on that post. 1/10 the volume of space

For reasons I do not understand, if you put a slower CPU daughter board (such as the dual 867mMhz) onto
a 166mhz bus motherboard, it down clocks it to be a 133mhz motherboard.
This isn't permanent and will return to being a 166mhz bus motherboard when you fit a faster CPU daughter board (such as the single 1.25Ghz).
(be aware, there are some 1.0Ghz daughter boards that run 166mhz and some that run 133mhz)

I read (a while ago, and not very attentively) somewhere on the net, that it is possible to up clock the mobo to 172 Mhz or even 200mhz, by changing the quartz cristal oscillator. I can't find it anywhere now though. :(


Also, remember the ram would need to be PC2700 to run on the 166mhz bus, or the mac will not boot up (i will beep at you, and flash the power on light at you, but not boot)
My diggings on the 133/166 MDD bus http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1652.0.html It includes macBidule, Australian Mac Forum and other old pages rescued thru WayBack Machine.

The 166 motherboard has 1 resistor less than the 133 board.

On the CPU boards, on the 867 there is a resistor that blocks it to work @166
 

oi!

Suspended
Jan 10, 2016
288
31
I want the mod info to overclock the mother board FSB to 200mhz, which would put the CPU's at 1.59Ghz if I don't I down clocked them separately.

Not sure if I'd settle for 172mhz FSB (CPU @1.37Ghz) it's a pretty minor gain, unless the 200mhz FSB overspeeds/overheats any components.
 
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