Debate Rages Over Whether Apple Music Automatically Deletes Users' Owned Music Collections

[newyorksole]

I love the majority of Apple's products and services, but I will NEVER use iCloud Music Library or Photo Library. There's no way I'm trusting Apple to keep my photos and music in sync.

I gave iCloud Music Library a try for about 2 months and it was just terrible. It was changing Explicit music to Clean and wouldn't actually save music for offline play.

I wouldn't recommend either service to anyone.

 

[bdrolshagen]

I wouldn't recommend either service to anyone.

Worse for me: iPhone kinda obscured photos on a snowy landscape (plain white rectangles?) and Genius Bar couldn't do anything about it, however, some of the shots were available on the device after disabling all that cloud stuff (oh, wow, trees and houses, too!).
"more worse": could not work on some iWork documents on a train ride during tunnel "lockouts" from internet - hey that was a heartbeat rate!
Clients of mine (like more than 2k desktops) were disconnected a day because the wonderful other cloud of Nutella errr Microsoft was off-line for their most important services - not even talking about outages of internet lines of local ISPs - no (payable) contract is gonna help you with these outages and non-availabilities.
Carefully balance on-premise, cloud and off-line usage vs. availability... Which we were absolutely used to when cloud did not exist at all...

 

[gnipgnop]

Then, my external drive was accidentally unplugged for a day or two, and I guess Itunes match decided to create a new library on my internal drive.

Plugged my external drive back in and repointed my itunes library back to it.

....next day, more than 50% of my music had been deleted from the external drive, and not accessible from the cloud.

Sounds more like a drive failure or file corruption of some sort. Disconnecting from the music files and/or library file would just result in iTunes not being able to play local files. You have to hold down the option or shift key while launching iTunes in order to even bring up a choice for creating a new library or selecting a different one.
[doublepost=1462746096][/doublepost]

AM access I understood. What I didn't understand was that the AM versions would be totally different songs in many cases, DRM for others, and arbitrarily deciding to butcher my music library without user permission.

Apple Music doesn't do any matching to your library or scanning of your library. You just gain streaming access to songs that are a part of the service (around 30 million), and can also choose to download songs for offline play (as long as you're still a subscriber). Any songs you downloaded during a subscription will no longer be available without one. That's it.

 

[lowejazz]

My solution to dealing with the confusing and dangerous Apple application named "iTunes", was to delete it completely and use the look-alike simple but safe application "Swinsian" for managing my 400GB music library and the application "Syncios" for managing content on my iPads, iPods and iPhones. Haven't opened iTunes since mid 2015.

We ought to have known that Apple was abandoning the legitimate computer business and becoming a phone company when they dropped the "Computer" from their corporate name a few years ago. Perhaps their ultimate corporate destination is to become another AT&T as in "Apple Telephone & Telegraph".

Two geniuses are likely turning over in their graves ... Alexander Graham Bell and Steve Jobs!

 

[bdkennedy1]

If you want to be treated like a moron, call Apple Support. They're great at making you feel like one.

 

[castlerock]

Apple is love and perfection. This user has been using iTunes wrong. PEBKAC.

And holding their iPhone wrong.
And ...

There are these things called backups. One would think a professional musician would know of it.

Wow, what an incredibly condescending way to blame the victim. Just wow. Bravo, Mr. FanBoi, bravo! But how about this: One would think a user of software distributed by a half-trillion-dollar company wouldn't have to worry about or deal with said software unintentionally deleting 100 GB+ of files.

 

[cyanite]

I would add my own MP3 file and after dragging it to iTunes, the file was matched against the apple music catalogue, instead of just itunes match as before. The original file was there, but if I had a second computer with a second iTunes session logged in, and tried to download the new song, it would download a DRM apple music file, despite the fact of me owning the file in the first place. In an scenario like mine where you use itunes match to free up local storage space, apple music meant that apple was actually "STEALING" our own music, applying DRM to files that did not have to have DRM whatsoever.

This is how it's supposed to work. It matches your songs to Apple Music, and uses the results of that match to serve to all other devices. It doesn't touch the file on your original device, but it uses the matched (DRM if Apple Music, non-DRM if iTunes Match) version on all other devices, if the file is missing.

Note that this only happens for songs that can be matched to something by iTunes Match or Apple Music; a song your recorded yourself, or similar, is uploaded (after being converted to at most 256kbps AAC) to the cloud, and downloaded DRM-free on other devices. Both with iTunes Match and Apple Music.

The main difference between Apple Music and iTunes Match is that the former doesn't match using a song "fingerprint", and that the latter serves back non-DRM versions.
[doublepost=1462791721][/doublepost]

This is exactly why Apple needs to unbundle Apple Music from iTunes on Mac/PC and from the Music app on iOS. Apple Music needs to be made into its own separate app. Leave my iTunes library alone.

It does leave it alone, unless due to a bug. No thanks! Why would I go to a separate app to play a song that I happened to save to my library vs. one I just wanted to search for on Apple Music? It's an integrated experience: playing music.
[doublepost=1462791986][/doublepost]

Apple Music doesn't do any matching to your library or scanning of your library. You just gain streaming access to songs that are a part of the service (around 30 million), and can also choose to download songs for offline play (as long as you're still a subscriber). Any songs you downloaded during a subscription will no longer be available without one. That's it.

This is incorrect. Apple Music does the following:

1. Music it can't match to anything is uploaded to the cloud (after being converted to 256kbps AAC if needed), and served back as-is on your devices.

2. Music that can be matched (by song title, artist etc. not by looking at the actual music data) is "added to your library" which doesn't mean much except it'll be in "My music". It's not touched on the original device but served back as the matched version (with DRM) on all other devices.

iTunes Match does that same for point 1 but does the following instead of point 2 above:

2b. Music that can be matched (by looking at the actual music data, this time), is added to your library and will be served back to you as the matched version (without DRM) on all other devices.

 

[gnipgnop]

This is incorrect. Apple Music does the following:

1. Music it can't match to anything is uploaded to the cloud (after being converted to 256kbps AAC if needed), and served back as-is on your devices.

2. Music that can be matched (by song title, artist etc. not by looking at the actual music data) is "added to your library" which doesn't mean much except it'll be in "My music". It's not touched on the original device but served back as the matched version (with DRM) on all other devices.

iTunes Match does that same for point 1 but does the following instead of point 2 above:

2b. Music that can be matched (by looking at the actual music data, this time), is added to your library and will be served back to you as the matched version (without DRM) on all other devices.

No, Apple Music does not do matching. That's done with iCloud Library, which is not really the same thing as Apple Music, since it existed before Apple Music was even available. You do have cloud access to iTunes purchases without turning on iCloud Library, but that's no different than standard iTunes.

 

[cyanite]

No, Apple Music does not do matching. That's done with iCloud Library, which is not really the same thing as Apple Music, since it existed before Apple Music was even available. You do have cloud access to iTunes purchases without turning on iCloud Library, but that's no different than standard iTunes.

For all practical purposes, Apple Music does the matching. You can't have matching without either subscribing to Apple Music or iTunes Match, and what kind of matching you get depends on which you subscribe to (if you subscribe to both, you get iTunes Match matching, which is the better of the two (no DRM, better matching)). The setting for "iCloud Music Library" is confusing and should be removed.

You have access to online purchases without any subscription, yes.

 

[147798]

I am sorry that I have become an apple critic the last year, but I just can't seem to find the bright side anymore on much of what they are doing.

Now that I have Amazon Echo's in my house, I am actively comparing Amazon music with iTunes. iTunes -- player especially -- has been cr*p for a while. This kind of stuff makes me not trust it at all (though I see in the other new story, that Apple is "upgrading" iTunes to take it BACK to where it was before).

STILL waiting to update my 2009 MacBook Pro, and the options to Apple aren't very good, but that's different than saying I want to stay with Apple products because I love them. I stay with Apple, because the options are worse.

First world problems, of course.

 

[newyorksole]

No, Apple Music does not do matching. That's done with iCloud Library, which is not really the same thing as Apple Music, since it existed before Apple Music was even available. You do have cloud access to iTunes purchases without turning on iCloud Library, but that's no different than standard iTunes.

Honestly all of that just sounds like a headache Lol. I'll gladly manage and sync my myself. I don't think Apple does a good job at it at all.

 

[Freeks]

Apple Music is beta product. All users are beta testers abn Apple will either release the full version or kill the product.

I used it for 3 months as it was confusing. It's like apple don't have single UX designer in the house. That is weird. Apple products are usually well thought out, but aMusic is something else.

Big problem is that they try to use MP3 player (=iTunes) for everything. Want to back up your phone? Use our music player for it! It's actually really funny if you think it that way

 

[gnipgnop]

For all practical purposes, Apple Music does the matching. You can't have matching without either subscribing to Apple Music or iTunes Match, and what kind of matching you get depends on which you subscribe to (if you subscribe to both, you get iTunes Match matching, which is the better of the two (no DRM, better matching)). The setting for "iCloud Music Library" is confusing and should be removed.

I agree that it can be confusing, but it's debatable as to whether it would make sense to remove it. iCloud is, in fact, separate from Apple Music and iTunes Match. They're compatible with that service, but not interchangeable with it. Keeping separate names is one way to try and help people understand that they're not really all the same thing.
[doublepost=1462802347][/doublepost]

Honestly all of that just sounds like a headache Lol. I'll gladly manage and sync my myself. I don't think Apple does a good job at it at all.

Not really…Apple Music covers roughly 2/3 of the material available within the iTunes Music Store, so the majority of users will probably find that making use of the matching functions provided by iCloud Library is mostly redundant. I've found that's it's fairly easy to just manually add the things that aren't available in Apple Music without matching, as it's not that big of a chunk of my library.

 

[Dougbert]

it replaced most of "my" music with AM files. i only noticed after i unsubscribed to AM and all my music was greyed out and not playable. thankfully i had it all stored in Google Music as well

And that, right there, is why I won't do Apple Music. I don't need my 80,000+ songs converted to a format I will no longer be able to access if I decide I don't want to pay for Apple Music anymore.

 

[dk001]

Sounds more like a drive failure or file corruption of some sort. Disconnecting from the music files and/or library file would just result in iTunes not being able to play local files. You have to hold down the option or shift key while launching iTunes in order to even bring up a choice for creating a new library or selecting a different one.
[doublepost=1462746096][/doublepost]

Apple Music doesn't do any matching to your library or scanning of your library. You just gain streaming access to songs that are a part of the service (around 30 million), and can also choose to download songs for offline play (as long as you're still a subscriber). Any songs you downloaded during a subscription will no longer be available without one. That's it.

I wish that was the case. That should have been the case. Unfortunately not. I, and many others, including frustrated tech support and GB support became recipients of damaged / destroyed libraries.

After reading a number of your other entries on this thread, you are describing how it should be working. For many it does. For many others, it doesn't. After seeing my libraries destroyed twice, working with Tech Support and the GB and hearing the dreaded "That isn't supposed to happen" from them, AM is a non-starter for me. Experience has painfully taught me I cannot trust it.

And holding their iPhone wrong.
And ...
....

So... with an iPhone, PEBKAC is no longer applicable. Looking for a new acronym.
PEBHAD? (Problem Exists Between Hand and Device)

 

[gnipgnop]

After reading a number of your other entries on this thread, you are describing how it should be working. For many it does. For many others, it doesn't. After seeing my libraries destroyed twice, working with Tech Support and the GB and hearing the dreaded "That isn't supposed to happen" from them, AM is a non-starter for me. Experience has painfully taught me I cannot trust it.

A corrupt library file isn't the same thing as auto-deleting music files. I've experienced the library file corrupting, and although it can be alarming when you haven't experienced it before, your stored music files aren't effected. Also, disk error or file corruption is (by a wide margin) the most likely cause of file losses, so my comments are more about being realistic than simply describing "how it should be working". Is it realistic to think that disconnecting the drive would cause the software to auto create a new library by itself, or that reconnecting it would cause the software to auto-delete 50% of the music on the drive? Not really. Those explanations are highly unlikely vs. having multiple library files to begin with and experiencing a drive failure or file corruption.

 

[danranda]

I've never experienced this bug (if it really is happening, and is not user error or user confusion). Apple Music just works perfectly as intended to me every single day.

My anecdotal evidence sys Apple still has work to do. It's not perfect for me.

• Apple Music replaced my personally created music with some other artists music. Song, album and artist names were all different. The only thing that "matched" was the track length... and now my personally created song is gone from my library and devices. Hopefully my TM backup still has a copy.
  
• Some songs I owned before (actually bought from iTunes) won't play on any of my devices. They show in the playlists, but when selected it just skips it and immediately goes to the next song.
• Other songs I purchased from iTunes will play for 10-30 seconds and then automatically skip to another song. It always happens at the same exact point of the song. It happens on all my devices aside from my primary mac.
• None of these issues were fixed by resetting my phone, which was so much fun to sign back in on every damn app I use, and reestablish all my notification settings and such...

So in my opinion, Apple screwed up their Music services and apps too badly. I've given them a pass to see if they correct all this crap for the next version, but I'm concerned this is the where apple will crumble. Music is a large part of my life... "It's in my DNA"... So dammit apple get your house in order and get your music software sorted out.

1. Make classic itunes (my personally owned or created music) separate from your streaming music service.
   • either a separate app, or an in app button in the top corner that "flips" the app ui over, like a card, and one side is all my stuff and other side is all apples stuff... perhaps one side is in a "dark mode" sort of design and the other side is a "light mode" design to distinguish what one I'm looking at
2. Make Remove all the syncing and device management functionality from the OS X app
   • Bring back "iSync" as a standalone app wholes sole purpose is syncing my devices and their libraries. This shoudl apply to all music, movies, tv shows, videos, photos, app management and such. The iSync app would hook into each content app, like Photos and itunes, in order to move content between devices and targeted apps. This should reduce the bloat that itunes has become

 

[BlandUsername]

I suffered from this bug. I had iTunes Match when I enabled Apple Music. A lot of my own music got incorrecty labeled as Apple Music in iCloud.

If you have iTunes Match you can delete your own local music files and later get your own DRM-free files back from the cloud.

But that failed for those files that was incorrectly labeled as Apple Music. I did lose those files (after I deleted them). Apple Support could not help me.

Now, this was a known bug when Apple Music was just released, but my mislabeled songs still have the wrong label to this day. When I download them, I get a DRM version.

So yes, you can loose your music files. Even with iTunes Match.

(And there are plenty more serious bugs in iTunes and iCloud library. I have 6 open bug reports with Apple.)

You also end up with a small percentage incorrectly matched as in wrong artist and Live versus the studio version you had. Cost me about 50 song files the first time I DL'ed a full set of my music from match and I didn't even bother counting the time my lady friend did the same thing from another machine. Honestly, not really sure why I bothered renewing except to circumvent potential issues by not re-upping

 

[dk001]

A corrupt library file isn't the same thing as auto-deleting music files. I've experienced the library file corrupting, and although it can be alarming when you haven't experienced it before, your stored music files aren't effected. Also, disk error or file corruption is (by a wide margin) the most likely cause of file losses, so my comments are more about being realistic than simply describing "how it should be working". Is it realistic to think that disconnecting the drive would cause the software to auto create a new library by itself, or that reconnecting it would cause the software to auto-delete 50% of the music on the drive? Not really. Those explanations are highly unlikely vs. having multiple library files to begin with and experiencing a drive failure or file corruption.

Don't deliberately mis-interpret the words. I have had it change the song, change the art, replace explicit with clean, non-DRM with DRM, replace one version with another (especially live versions or remix), song with a completely wrong song, song is greyed out, song just vanishes, album vanishes, significant portion of the library vanish.
I'm not talking file corruption from a code perspective. I'm talking mangling an existing library.
Corrupt: unreliable by errors or alterations. My library was most definitely altered.

 

[ryanmcv]

It does leave it alone, unless due to a bug. No thanks! Why would I go to a separate app to play a song that I happened to save to my library vs. one I just wanted to search for on Apple Music? It's an integrated experience: playing music.

Right, but if you ever unsubscribe from Apple Music, your library is left in total chaos. Songs and albums that I added from Apple Music now appear greyed out in my iTunes library. I've tried deleting them several times, but they keep reappearing for whatever reason. I just don't think it makes sense for a subscription-based service to combine its offerings with my permanent library. I guess if you're a die-hard Apple Music fan that's going to stay subscribed for years and years, it might make sense. But for someone like me who only subscribes on an as-needed basis, it just creates more trouble than it's worth.

 

[gnipgnop]

Don't deliberately mis-interpret the words. I have had it change the song, change the art, replace explicit with clean, non-DRM with DRM, replace one version with another (especially live versions or remix), song with a completely wrong song, song is greyed out, song just vanishes, album vanishes, significant portion of the library vanish.
I'm not talking file corruption from a code perspective. I'm talking mangling an existing library.
Corrupt: unreliable by errors or alterations. My library was most definitely altered.

In other words, you're not talking about source files being deleted automatically, but rather that iTunes Match is not able to provide an exact iCloud duplicate of your non-iTunes music files.

 

[dk001]

In other words, you're not talking about source files being deleted automatically, but rather that iTunes Match is not able to provide an exact iCloud duplicate of your non-iTunes music files.

Close.

1. I had iTunes Match. I discontinued that feature later and imported a new much larger library into iTunes. All was working well at that point.
2. Tried Apple Music Trial (signed up via iPhone).
3. Shortly after signing up for AM, my troubles with my library commenced.

Apple Music was the issue. Tech support theorized (as I was one of many with this issue) that former users of iTunes Match, those libraries, did not work properly with AM.

 

[oliversl]

No point in reproducing via youtube, I've told Apple about this many times. The problem isn't so much with Apple Music, as it is iCloud Music Library. As soon as you turn iCML to "on", you're going to have your artwork screwed with, and your local tracks zapped.

So the problem is real, Apple should fix it. The youtube video will help with the naysayers

 

[BeatCrazy]

So the problem is real, Apple should fix it. The youtube video will help with the naysayers

If there are any naysayers, they can just turn on iCML themselves, and watch their local music library cover art go all to hell. I'm not going to waste time making a youtube video, when they can experience the joy (pain?) themselves

 

[NomadicTy]

I subscribed to Apple Music when it first came out. I thought I had some of my own music deleted, but I realized they metadata were just mixed up. It took me 3 days of manually fixing each affected song so if I play "Happy", I actually get to hear happy instead of a song by Juanes. I see this problem is still out there. I'm staying away from apple Music for now.