Defective Updates Between 10.5.2 and 10.5.4

[elmateo487]

Ok, I need some help on this one. Because im GOING to find out what the problem is here, or I will sell this computer. I have only had this MBP for 2 weeks and wow am i pissed.

So! Finally after having to turn on and off my airport OVER 100 times a day to keep an internet connection, i said screw it and i reinstalled my operating system. I also was having the screen striping. So i figured might as well try and reinstall it all.

Well! I reinstalled and everything went beautifully! When i got it all back up and running things were great. I ended up downloading 2 gigs of updates. (including the garageband free loop update) and everything went super smooth, not a single time did my connection drop below full bars. THEN! I installed all the updates and rebooted. The whole process took 7 HOURS! Now here i am. Super SUPER pissed because sure enough. the SECOND i installed all of these updates? My wireless sucks horribly. It drops out all the time, and i have to turn it off and then on, then i get full signal again. BS

SO, my question is do i have to reinstall everything to roll back those updates? Which updates should i leave out next time? I am assuming Garageband and iDVD and iMovie and all those kinds of apps are fine. But maybe just the airport updates and the os x updates?

Any ideas to help a fellow pissed off customer? This would be VERY helpful to a LOT of people who have this same problem.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Orrr..... you could take it to an Apple Genius, as those sound like potential hardware issues. Like the logicboard or something.

 

[elmateo487]

Orrr..... you could take it to an Apple Genius, as those sound like potential hardware issues. Like the logicboard or something.

Yeah if they only knew something about computers. They said these are normal software issues that many people are experiencing. Yeah... Bull.

They said the same thing about the screen striping issue.

 

[kolax]

Your Mac really took 7 hours to install all the updates? Sure it isn't because of your internet connection speed?

And I'd get it checked out at a Genius Bar too - but I'd reinstall completely, then install the 10.5.4 combo update first before installing anything else.

 

[HLdan]

Yeah if they only knew something about computers. They said these are normal software issues that many people are experiencing. Yeah... Bull.

They said the same thing about the screen striping issue.

Hmm, I find that a little hard to believe that the Apple geniuses told you that 7 hours of install and wireless dropping constantly are "normal" software issues?

If they did indeed say that you should take it to a different Apple retail store or call AppleCare. When you say that you reinstalled the OS, did you actually do a full erase and reformat? Did you only install the updates and no other 3rd party software? If so you shouldn't be having any issues.

 

[elmateo487]

I did a full erase and install.

And by 7 hours, i mean that is how long it took me to transfer all my music, and movies, and everything back. To get it back to how it was. The install takes about 2 hours. An hour for the initial install, then an hour for the additional program install. Garage band and the such.

As for internet connection speed i get about 350 kbs maximum. As in thats the fastest i see downloads happen. So it is pretty fast.

And yes i only install the updates, no third party.

I just completely reinstalled again. And i am going to do updates that have nothing to do with the OS itself, but for the programs. and not for the airport.

Right now i am doing really well. My signal has not changed at all. Full bars and very fast. I am installing iDVD and the likes.

and yes that is what the Apple Genius said. After explaining everything. He said some BS about how if there are a lot of wireless connections around then you will drop. There are about 7 wireless connections around me. But right now its going really well.

 

[kryszrich]

this is a problem most people do not experience. why put up with it. Probably something wrong with your computer and since you jsut got it...take advantage of it and replace it.

send email to sjobs@apple.com


you'll be contacted by a top customer service rep if you sound professional. Pretend you need the computer for work in the creative field. It works. you may not need to do this..all i am saying is if the apple store is giving you a "this is normal" ******** and won't replace it...you may need to go to the top.

 

[ra noodle]

elmateo487

not in any way do i find your situation funny- but what you are experiencing, and others have are the levels of frustration that i remember having over owning that junk called gateway computers and microsofts ME......and this is where i had the freedom to switch to Mac but i keep reading so many- at least to me-so many that continue to have problems with Leopard...i have 10.4.11 and i have no intention of going any further....JOBS AND HIS CROWD F***ED LEOPARD UP AND ALSO WITH CONNECTED APS....sure there are a lot who have had no problems...and i am beginning to realize many who post on macrumors are "representing" for Mac, it becomes obvious after awhile....what i am stunned over is that mr high and mighty Jobs doesn't admit this...i could see it now at one of those next stage shows of his he walks out and admits he and his crowd f'ed up Leopard and have let their quality control go to hell......i have encountered some great apple geniuses and then i have encountered some who seem to give me the impression they are representing Jobs form of DHS for Mac....its getting weird...

 

[elmateo487]

Ok first of all. I use this computer for recording my woodwind instruments through a usb interface. I love this computer more than any other electronic device i have owned. Thats saying a lot! Haha.

But this is just madness. So i am going to go through EVERYTHING i can do to fix this, because thats what i do. I hate dealing with electronic reps. Like the guy at the genius bar who once when my ipod was broken he took it and started beating it on his hand to get it to work! And it did!? AND HE GAVE IT BACK! I just stared at him, are you kidding me!?

So, does anyone know how to roll back updates? So i dont have to keep reinstalling every two seconds while I troubleshoot this?

And p.s. thanks for the advice, i will try a higher up individual. And hey! I do write, record and perform my own music! Haha i write jazz! Thats even more exotic...

This is pretty insane though.

 

[kolax]

and yes that is what the Apple Genius said. After explaining everything. He said some BS about how if there are a lot of wireless connections around then you will drop. There are about 7 wireless connections around me. But right now its going really well.

Isn't BS, it's true. If there are lots of wireless networks about you, and some are operating on the same wireless channel, then this will cause interference and sometimes cause your Mac to drop the signal.

 

[elmateo487]

well obviously it was BS in my case. Like i said, 7 STRONG signals. Plus to cop out with an excuse like that? So they don't have to help me? That is the BS part of this.

 

[kolax]

well obviously it was BS in my case. Like i said, 7 STRONG signals. Plus to cop out with an excuse like that? So they don't have to help me? That is the BS part of this.

Eh? Did you read what I said? You have "7 STRONG signals" from wireless networks around you. If any are on the same wireless channel, then dropouts can occur. It isn't just a Mac issue, any wireless device would face dropout issues.

 

[scaredpoet]

But this is just madness. So i am going to go through EVERYTHING i can do to fix this, because thats what i do.

And we're telling you that the ONLY thing you can do at this point is get it into an Apple store or call up Apple tech support and get an RMA to have the computer repaired or changed out. The striping is a hardware issue, and no amount of installing, re-installing or anything else you do is likely to fix that.

I hate dealing with electronic reps. Like the guy at the genius bar who once when my ipod was broken he took it and started beating it on his hand to get it to work! And it did!? AND HE GAVE IT BACK! I just stared at him, are you kidding me!?

Then take it to another Apple store, or call them up by phone and get it shipped directly to their support center. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck with a broken Mac. If that's what you want, then enjoy.

 

[elmateo487]

Eh? Did you read what I said? You have "7 STRONG signals" from wireless networks around you. If any are on the same wireless channel, then dropouts can occur. It isn't just a Mac issue, any wireless device would face dropout issues.

and right now, I'm using OS X 10.5.2 and i have NO PROBLEMS. 7 strong signals near by (i am at college) did you read what i said? So obviously that is NOT the issue! Sorry to be rude. Not to mention that i have tried it on close to a dozen wireless connections.

Now scaredpoet is saying something useful. Because i cannot take it to the apple store near me, they wont do anything about it. See statements above why. So looks like ill have to ship it i guess.

OR just leave it with 10.5.2, and find out what update breaks connection. because whenever i update it breaks wireless connection.

Everyone around here instantly sticks up for macs without even thinking logically.

 

[HLdan]

Everyone around here instantly sticks up for macs without even thinking logically.

Your issues are quite valid and it does sound like you are having issues somewhere that Apple needs to look at it. Although I am sorry you feel that way but I can assure you that people here don't just stick up for Macs without good reason.

Here's some of the reasons to help you understand a bit better:

Recent Switchers; (aka People coming from Windows). Switchers generally think only one way, the Windows way and most switchers generally come here to complain about the Mac not running like Windows. The forum members would prefer that switchers just ask for help rather than compare the Mac to the OS they just dumped.

Irate forum members; this may apply to you as you came at everyone with a post of high frustration threatening to get rid of the computer if we can't resolve the issue for you and to be honest your OP wasn't very clear. This easily puts people on the defense.

Dissatisfied Switchers, these are people that never checked out Mac OS X fully before purchasing and then come to the forum as a new member constantly finding fault with the Mac and the Mac OS to the point of nearly blaming the MR forum members for their troubles.

Just understand that we are ALL consumers here of Apple products and we have no stake in defending Apple as we have problems too but no one is blindingly defending the Mac, there's always good reason.

 

[Brandon3003]

I feel your pain. I had the same problem as you, and I agree it is very frustrating.

My issues were on a 2008 mac pro, but this should also work for you.
Basically your hardware is probably fine. It's 10.5.3/4 that causes the problem. I'm not sure why it only affects some people and not everyone, but I do have a solution for you.

Update to 10.5.2, then you need to open terminal and create a backup folder. If you're unfamiliar with the terminal i'll try to walk you through it.
Become a sudo user, to do this type "sudo -s" without quotes and enter your password. Then you need to create a folder to move the old wireless kext. So type "mkdir /backup". Now copy the 10.5.2 wireless kext to that folder by typing "cp -R /System/Library/Extensions/IO80211Family.kext/ /backup/IO80211Family.kext"

Now you can install 10.5.4. Once that's installed, you just need to move the old kext over that was used in 10.5.2. Gain sudo again "sudo -s", and then type "rm -R /System/Library/Extensions/IO80211Family.kext" and move over the old one by typing "mv /backup/IO80211Family.kext /System/Library/Extensions/"

Now reboot and you should have the same wireless stability you had before.


You're welcome.

PS: I know this is retarded that it has to be done, but you and I must be the only ones using wireless since I don't see many others complaining

 

[elmateo487]

Your issues are quite valid and it does sound like you are having issues somewhere that Apple needs to look at it. Although I am sorry you feel that way but I can assure you that people here don't just stick up for Macs without good reason.

Here's some of the reasons to help you understand a bit better:

Recent Switchers; (aka People coming from Windows). Switchers generally think only one way, the Windows way and most switchers generally come here to complain about the Mac not running like Windows. The forum members would prefer that switchers just ask for help rather than compare the Mac to the OS they just dumped.

Irate forum members; this may apply to you as you came at everyone with a post of high frustration threatening to get rid of the computer if we can't resolve the issue for you and to be honest your OP wasn't very clear. This easily puts people on the defense.

Dissatisfied Switchers, these are people that never checked out Mac OS X fully before purchasing and then come to the forum as a new member constantly finding fault with the Mac and the Mac OS to the point of nearly blaming the MR forum members for their troubles.

Just understand that we are ALL consumers here of Apple products and we have no stake in defending Apple as we have problems too but no one is blindingly defending the Mac, there's always good reason.

Well thanks for the thought anyways. I guess i was really pissed off. I think for good reason. Something as fundamental as wireless internet....

Either way. We are looking at the problems people are having, not the fact that some people do not have them. But that some people DO have them, because thats the part that has any matter in the situation.

I feel your pain. I had the same problem as you, and I agree it is very frustrating.

My issues were on a 2008 mac pro, but this should also work for you.
Basically your hardware is probably fine. It's 10.5.3/4 that causes the problem. I'm not sure why it only affects some people and not everyone, but I do have a solution for you.

Update to 10.5.2, then you need to open terminal and create a backup folder. If you're unfamiliar with the terminal i'll try to walk you through it.
Become a sudo user, to do this type "sudo -s" without quotes and enter your password. Then you need to create a folder to move the old wireless kext. So type "mkdir /backup". Now copy the 10.5.2 wireless kext to that folder by typing "cp -R /System/Library/Extensions/IO80211Family.kext/ /backup/IO80211Family.kext"

Now you can install 10.5.4. Once that's installed, you just need to move the old kext over that was used in 10.5.2. Gain sudo again "sudo -s", and then type "rm -R /System/Library/Extensions/IO80211Family.kext" and move over the old one by typing "mv /backup/IO80211Family.kext /System/Library/Extensions/"

Now reboot and you should have the same wireless stability you had before.


You're welcome.

PS: I know this is retarded that it has to be done, but you and I must be the only ones using wireless since I don't see many others complaining

I really appreciate the help. That sounds like a logical solution, ill get to it today and let you know. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Brandon3003]

Any luck?

 

[HLdan]

Well thanks for the thought anyways. I guess i was really pissed off. I think for good reason. Something as fundamental as wireless internet....

Either way. We are looking at the problems people are having, not the fact that some people do not have them. But that some people DO have them, because thats the part that has any matter in the situation.

Sorry if this is harsh but your reply is a bit selfish and you are not logically thinking this through.
When someone (such as yourself) post problems with their Mac it's just as important for people to post and express that they are not experiencing anything of your experience because it helps to know that the problem is not wide spread.
If we focus only on the people having problems and ignoring the people not having problems then false information about defective Macs get around MR. If you were a potential Mac buyer and read only negatives then you would never buy. Both sides are just as important.

I certainly hope your issues get resolved and please let us know.

 

[elmateo487]

Sorry if this is harsh but your reply is a bit selfish and you are not logically thinking this through.
When someone (such as yourself) post problems with their Mac it's just as important for people to post and express that they are not experiencing anything of your experience because it helps to know that the problem is not wide spread.
If we focus only on the people having problems and ignoring the people not having problems then false information about defective Macs get around MR. If you were a potential Mac buyer and read only negatives then you would never buy. Both sides are just as important.

I certainly hope your issues get resolved and please let us know.

Your mentality doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think we see many threads that say... "My wireless works GREAT!!" Either way, I admitted i was a little out of line, and really mad. SO much money spent and then this... Ug! Not to mention this issue is widespread so i figured it this would make sense. But whatever.

BUT anyways... that suggestion did help. Thank you so much brandon!!

 

[Brandon3003]

BUT anyways... that suggestion did help. Thank you so much brandon!!

Glad I could help

 

[coconut2674]

I had exactly the same problem with my macbook, i had crappy wireless which kept going on and off, and then i just reinstalled tiger - and am back to leopard - still have the problem, but it's not as bad now...avoid the updates!!!!!the wireless issue has been since 10.4.11! A lot of people have it - but i don't think there's anything that can be done...for now i'm avoiding 10.5.4 just incase....

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I had exactly the same problem with my macbook, i had crappy wireless which kept going on and off, and then i just reinstalled tiger - and am back to leopard - still have the problem, but it's not as bad now...avoid the updates!!!!!the wireless issue has been since 10.4.11! A lot of people have it - but i don't think there's anything that can be done...for now i'm avoiding 10.5.4 just incase....

again, if the wireless problem has been around for you through all these updates it's probably due to wireless interference.

 

[elmateo487]

again, if the wireless problem has been around for you through all these updates it's probably due to wireless interference.

ok. ONE more time, so people can see that there is a fix, and this is NOT interference. I was doing perfectly fine with 10.5.2 with 7 strong signals around me, no interference. And when i updated to 10.5.4 it killed my connection. Everytime.

So! There is a fix to this, see the above posts. It works well.

 

[Brandon3003]

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