Defending the 2016 15MBP TB

[dizmonk]

Okay I'm sorry to do this but I had to say that I love this laptop. I've had Macs for a decade or so and this model is lighter, faster, louder and brighter than any other I've had. The complaints on this site are numerous but I really don't think this machine gets enough positive feedback.

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

 

[redleg6]

Okay I'm sorry to do this but I had to say that I love this laptop. I've had Macs for a decade or so and this model is lighter, faster, louder and brighter than any other I've had. The complaints on this site are numerous but I really don't think this machine gets enough positive feedback.

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

You're not the sole voice of approval of this laptop. I am a first time MBP owner (about 1 month) and a long time Microsoft victim. My 2016 MBP with TB is superb. Best laptop experience ever!!

 

[Five_Oh]

Count me in as a happy owner (so far) as well. We have one '16 and one '17 15 inch MBP in our house and so far, so good. I'm not discounting others' bad experiences, but as we all know, people are more likely to post when they are having difficulties, rather when everything is going swimmingly.

 

[SurfaceBookUser]

I love it as well. My keyboard was flawless for 13 months of 10+ hours of use per day. Now I've got 4 keys that double-press on a daily basis. Great that you're in the honeymoon phase still but I'm convinced all of the keyboards will fail prematurely. For a light casual user that might take 4 or 5 years but be ready for it. The rest of the laptop is brilliant.

 

[Five_Oh]

I love it as well. My keyboard was flawless for 13 months of 10+ hours of use per day. Now I've got 4 keys that double-press on a daily basis. Great that you're in the honeymoon phase still but I'm convinced all of the keyboards will fail prematurely. For a light casual user that might take 4 or 5 years but be ready for it. The rest of the laptop is brilliant.

I'm curious about your use case. Do you frequently utilize the dgpu? I know others have speculated the keyboard failures are heat related.

 

[Miltz]

Okay I'm sorry to do this but I had to say that I love this laptop. I've had Macs for a decade or so and this model is lighter, faster, louder and brighter than any other I've had. The complaints on this site are numerous but I really don't think this machine gets enough positive feedback.

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

I was in the same boat as you. I LOVE/LOVED mine as well. Until Exactly one year later the keyboard started to malfunction and because I was a few days over warranty they wanted to pay $479. It's an amazing laptop except for the keyboard issue which is real. And making a customer pay $479 for a new keyboard is beyond disgusting. Just because Apple built the keyboard into the the lower part of the laptop which includes the battery and other components isn't the customers fault. The customer should only pay for what went wrong. I didn't believe it until I happened to me. Good Luck with yours.

 

[nikster0029]

I was in the same boat as you. I LOVE/LOVED mine as well. Until Exactly one year later the keyboard started to malfunction and because I was a few days over warranty they wanted to pay $479. It's an amazing laptop except for the keyboard issue which is real. And making a customer pay $479 for a new keyboard is beyond disgusting. Just because Apple built the keyboard into the the lower part of the laptop which includes the battery and other components isn't the customers fault. The customer should only pay for what went wrong. I didn't believe it until I happened to me. Good Luck with yours.

Yep count me in this boat as well.

 

[Karnicopia]

It's been my favorite computer by far. I've come from a long line of Lenovo laptops for work and Asus gaming laptops. This is the first laptop that I've owned where I've really enjoyed using it as a laptop like on my lap. It pretty much killed my iPad usage at home because it's so convenient and comfortable to use. Screen is great, sound is great, I love the trackpad and I've liked the short travel keyboard. I find I type lighter on it so it's actually pretty nice for me, I really like the wide keys and if you hit the edge it registers the keystroke really well. The touchbar is pretty cool but I haven't really delved into better touch tools or anything like that I just let it run and use it for audio brightness, scrubbing and favorites. So minor things but it's really useful for those.

I really like the machine and I think even if they come out with a redesign I can't think of anything more I really need out of a laptop. I'll probably just hold on to this thing for a long time. Face ID would be cool but the touch ID works great so I wouldn't buy a new laptop over it.

 

[senttoschool]

Okay I'm sorry to do this but I had to say that I love this laptop. I've had Macs for a decade or so and this model is lighter, faster, louder and brighter than any other I've had. The complaints on this site are numerous but I really don't think this machine gets enough positive feedback.

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

It better be lighter, faster, louder, and brighter. It was 4 years newer than the Retina Macbook Pro model and it costs about 25% more.

Unfortunately, it sucks at things that matter the most in a pro laptop:

• Battery life is worse than 2015
• Keyboard is worse than 2015
• Port compatibility is worse than 2015. It's a joke that if you buy a new iPhone and a new Macbook, you can't plug them into each other out of the box.
• Touchbar is actually slower than shortcut keys and you have to look at your keyboard to use.
• Large touchpad makes typing annoying
• Single-threaded performance is only 6.23% (Geekbench) higher than 2015. In other words, your perceived speed upgrade is likely a placebo.
• Multi-threaded performance is only 7.7% (Geekbench) higher than 2015. Not noticeable on a day to day basis.

All at a significantly higher price point.

It's no wonder then that YoY Mac sales have declined 5% in Q12018 while the rest of the PC industry actually increased.

If you come from a Windows laptop, you're going to get an upgrade. It's still better than most if not all PCs.

Apple could have sold many more units if they actually made a good upgrade over the 2015. They made the same mistake with the trashcan Mac Pro - form over function. They had to apologize publicly for that mistake. I hope they wake up and give us a real Macbook Pro.

 

[MrChurchyard]

• Single-threaded performance is only 6.23% (Geekbench) higher than 2015. In other words, your perceived speed upgrade is likely a placebo.

Perceived speed by the end user is not related to CPU only. The faster SSD and switching to a Metal 2 capable GPU definitely increase performance where it counts: I/O bottlenecks and faster, more fluent UI drawing has much more of an impact on a responsive feeling than slightly faster CPU for most users (whose tasks likely are not CPU-bound but I/O and network-bound).

 

[maflynn]

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

Many people love the laptop, many people love the keyboard, and in fact have had no problems with the keyboard.

I don't think that takes away from all those who have had issues. I recall a thread where one such staunch member who I debated vigorously regarding the keyboard incurred issues himself. I find no joy in his trials, but I mention it, only to point out that just because it doesn't happen to you, means there isn't a design flaw.

Here's the thread I talking about, it has some interesting tidbits, both from the people who defend the keyboard and its design and those who are worried about the keyboard. MBP Keyboard is a total FAIL He also created this thread as well, though Keyboard - Nail in the Coffin

I'm of the opinion that the 2016 model has some inherent design flaws that make the keyboard failure highly likely for many people (maybe not all), Apple made some silent design changes in the 2017 and the issue has been reduced. I'm hoping the 2018 model year will be the year that apple gets it right and the keyboard problems are behind us.

 

[aevan]

Okay I'm sorry to do this but I had to say that I love this laptop. I've had Macs for a decade or so and this model is lighter, faster, louder and brighter than any other I've had. The complaints on this site are numerous but I really don't think this machine gets enough positive feedback.

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

Love mine. Really do. I did have issues with the keyboard and had to have it replaced. But otherwise it’s just a joy to use.
[doublepost=1517677037][/doublepost]

I recall a thread where one such staunch member who I debated vigorously regarding the keyboard incurred issues himself. I find no joy in his trials, but I mention it, only to point out that just because it doesn't happen to you, means there isn't a design flaw.

I don’t know if you’re talking about me, but if you are - I never debated if the keyboard should be reliable or not. Nor did I doubt some people are having problems. Most of my discussions were aimed towards people who just hated the feel and sound of the keyboard and claimed it was garbage. I still think it’s the best feeling keyboard Apple made.

As for the reliability - I only questioned how many people actually had failures. Even after I had issues with mine I am not self-centered enough to claim anything other than anecdotal experience. Anyway, it does seem to me like the keyboard was more inclined to fail than previous models. And I think this is a real problem, if true. But I still think it’s the best feeling keyboard and hopefully, Apple did some tweaks to make it more resistant to failure.

 

[Miltz]

It better be lighter, faster, louder, and brighter. It was 4 years newer than the Retina Macbook Pro model and it costs about 25% more.

Unfortunately, it sucks at things that matter the most in a pro laptop:

• Battery life is worse than 2015
• Keyboard is worse than 2015
• Port compatibility is worse than 2015. It's a joke that if you buy a new iPhone and a new Macbook, you can't plug them into each other out of the box.
• Touchbar is actually slower than shortcut keys and you have to look at your keyboard to use.
• Large touchpad makes typing annoying
• Single-threaded performance is only 6.23% (Geekbench) higher than 2015. In other words, your perceived speed upgrade is likely a placebo.
• Multi-threaded performance is only 7.7% (Geekbench) higher than 2015. Not noticeable on a day to day basis.

All at a significantly higher price point.

It's no wonder then that YoY Mac sales have declined 5% in Q12018 while the rest of the PC industry actually increased.

If you come from a Windows laptop, you're going to get an upgrade. It's still better than most if not all PCs.

Apple could have sold many more units if they actually made a good upgrade over the 2015. They made the same mistake with the trashcan Mac Pro - form over function. They had to apologize publicly for that mistake. I hope they wake up and give us a real Macbook Pro.

Last time I checked GeekBench isn’t productivity software anyone uses. Your 7.7% faster and it’s not noticeable comment is misleading to everyone who’s doesn’t know better. My 2016 is 60% yes 60% faster in Final Cut Pro than the 2015 when editing 4K video. And yes it’s definitely noticeable.

 

[maflynn]

I don’t know if you’re talking about me,

Nope. The author to the linked threads

 

[senttoschool]

Perceived speed by the end user is not related to CPU only. The faster SSD and switching to a Metal 2 capable GPU definitely increase performance where it counts: I/O bottlenecks and faster, more fluent UI drawing has much more of an impact on a responsive feeling than slightly faster CPU for most users (whose tasks likely are not CPU-bound but I/O and network-bound).

Unless you're copying and pasting large 100GB+ files, the faster SSD won't be noticed. If I switched in a SATA3 SSD at 500mb/sec, you can't tell the difference.

 

[kudos212]

Unless you're copying and pasting large 100GB+ files, the faster SSD won't be noticed. If I switched in a SATA3 SSD at 500mb/sec, you can't tell the difference.

Bruh, you have no technical knowledge if you think a SATA3 is any way comparable to the current ssd's in MacBook pro's.

The fact that you're brushing off the 2016 for a much faster ssd, better screen, better ports, and the Touch Bar probably means you have a 2015 and you're just an upset dude.

 

[jerryk]

Bruh, you have no technical knowledge if you think a SATA3 is any way comparable to the current ssd's in MacBook pro's.

The fact that you're brushing off the 2016 for a much faster ssd, better screen, better ports, and the Touch Bar probably means you have a 2015 and you're just an upset dude.

Faster SSD is nice, but at some point it the delay is so small it does not mean much to the user experience. Can anyone tell the difference between 0.2 secs and 0.15 secs to save a 200MB file? Sure the disk write rate is 50% faster, but can you tell?

The screen is better in the new systems.

The ports being better is debatable. USB C is the future, but most have a set of USB A peripherals already. So now we have USB C to A adapters.

And the Touch Bar is for many a questionable change. Losing the physical escape key is a loss for those developers that touch type. And what did we gain? And it does not matter when we go back to our iMacs at our desks.

 

[senttoschool]

Bruh, you have no technical knowledge if you think a SATA3 is any way comparable to the current ssd's in MacBook pro's.

The fact that you're brushing off the 2016 for a much faster ssd, better screen, better ports, and the Touch Bar probably means you have a 2015 and you're just an upset dude.

99% of users will not notice the difference between an SATA3 SSD and an NVME SSD.

It all comes down to "where are your bottlenecks?" For operations like OS loading and game loading, when using a spinning HDD the storage subsystem was a major bottleneck and the CPU spent most of its time waiting to receive data. Moving to a SATA SSD alleviates much of that wait time.

The results we see here are consistent with SATA SSDs being "fast enough" to provide the CPU with data sufficiently quickly that the CPU is no longer waiting around. Once you get to that speed, further data transfer increases no longer provide a significant benefit because data transfer isn't what is holding you back anymore. Going to NVME for that use case doesn't provide a significant speed increase because if anything the storage is now waiting for the CPU to request more data rather than the other way around.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Okay I'm sorry to do this but I had to say that I love this laptop. I've had Macs for a decade or so and this model is lighter, faster, louder and brighter than any other I've had. The complaints on this site are numerous but I really don't think this machine gets enough positive feedback.

I have not had any problems with the keyboard or anything else. I might be the sole voice of positivity but I needed to say it.

Many others agree.