Keyboard - Nail in the Coffin

[CaptRB]

I'm posting this primarily has a warning to potential buyers of any of the new machines using the butterfly keyboard.

1st, the good news. The new line of MacBook pro's are beautiful machines that have enough horsepower to get your work done. I have never worked with a laptop at any cost that felt so well manufactured.

And now the bad news: The keyboard issues are serious and far reaching. After two new Touchbars (the newest bought in February) has repeating key and dead key issues, Apple ended up refunding me on the 15" in full plus 300.00 dollars toward a new iMac. I also bought a new MacBook Air, so Apple ended up doing just fine with my problem by selling me a 2nd machine.
But the new iMac had a memory carriage defect and had to be swapped out.

And so...I'm at the Apple Store talking to folks at the Genius Bar. It's all fine because they gave me 150.00 and a Apple TV for my troubles. I mention what happened with the keyboard and once again the techs are telling me what the issue is:

The butterfly keyboard was NEVER properly tested for handling dust and debris. It WAS tested for durability, but the basic issue of debris getting under the keys was not properly tested for. Apple learned about the issue even before release, but decided to move forward anyway. They had not aggregated enough data to understand how bad the problem would be. The calculation turned out to be a big mistake as, according to the folks at Apple, this has become to the #1 issue for the MBP. Consider that Apple refunded me in full plus extra for a laptop that was over 5 months old. Hearing this same story directly from folks at Apple should put any doubts to rest....the nail in the coffin as it were.

DO NOT PURCHASE A MBP.

Once Apple solves this with a design change, these will be fantastic machines. Until then they are duds and should be avoided.

Best of luck to current owners. Keep your machines clean and wash you hands. Do not leave the screens open when not in use. Test the keys frequently. Good luck.


R.

 

[old-wiz]

I have a 2016 MBP with touchbar and I absolutely hate the keyboard. I just returned from a 2 week trip with the touchbar keyboard and I wanted to hurl the machine against the wall; I kept making so many mistakes. I am now thinking of just using the new MBP to replace my 2008 iMac plus an external keyboard and mouse. Is there any way to get Apple to put on a newer keyboard? I heard they changed the keyboard after the initial release. Good God! I am typing this on my older MBPr and it is great for typing. I can type without looking and not make more mistakes than I can count. Any ideas?

 

[Glmnet1]

Apple ended up refunding me on the 15" in full plus 300.00 dollars ... they gave me 150.00 and a Apple TV for my troubles.

Are Apple really that nice with their customers or did you have to argue with the employees to get these?

 

[kohlson]

I purchased a 2016 MBP for my college-age daughter in January this year. A defective/sticky key caused it to be brought in on Spring Break. Since the keyboard is not a replaceable part anymore, the entire top case was replaced. Without Apple Care, this will be a significant cost for what is essentially a less-than-robust design.

 

[DougFNJ]

Im guessing Apple fixed the issue in the 2017 models? I have been enjoying typing on this keyboard. The high pitch click sounds like it was definitely fixed, and I have been taking care to keep the keyboard as clean as possible to avoid possible problems. The main problems I have read about the most are the 2016 models. Not reading much at all about the 2017's. I'll keep it posted, but so far so god here on both my keyboard and touchbar.

 

[newellj]

Im guessing Apple fixed the issue in the 2017 models? I have been enjoying typing on this keyboard. The high pitch click sounds like it was definitely fixed, and I have been taking care to keep the keyboard as clean as possible to avoid possible problems. The main problems I have read about the most are the 2016 models. Not reading much at all about the 2017's. I'll keep it posted, but so far so god here on both my keyboard and touchbar.

No, they remain very fragile. I just replaced my 2015 with a 2015 refurb. Ports, card slot, MagSafe, and a real keyboard. No 4k video but I can do without.

 

[Falhófnir]

Im guessing Apple fixed the issue in the 2017 models? I have been enjoying typing on this keyboard. The high pitch click sounds like it was definitely fixed, and I have been taking care to keep the keyboard as clean as possible to avoid possible problems. The main problems I have read about the most are the 2016 models. Not reading much at all about the 2017's. I'll keep it posted, but so far so god here on both my keyboard and touchbar.

They did change the design (see ifixit teardown) and it does seem to have improved the issue, but crucially does not seem to have completely solved it. Reports of the same issues on 2017 models remain at a seemingly somewhat lower rate of incidence.

 

[groove-agent]

Epic fail on Apple's part. I get the feeling they wanted to rush out the MBP because everyone was complaining the Macs were neglected and that they couldn't innovate.

I'm not buying a new MBP until they fix the keyboard problems. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see this until they roll out a new model, probably 2018 which sucks. Meanwhile Dell, Razer etc has already released an 8th gen machine. I personally am in desperate need to replace my 2012 cMBP and am thinking about the 2015, but to pay that much money for a 2 year old model? Ugh.

 

[icymountain]

Keyboard is a frustrating question...
I am using a 15" TB since July, on the side with other mac laptops with the previous keyboard. My experience varies. At times, I am doing fine with the new one. At other times, I both make plenty of typing mistakes and feel a small but noticeable increase in wrist fatigue which makes me uncomfortable. If I was using only this keyboard, maybe I would get past the learning curve by now, who knows. By contrast, I also have an iMac with the new Apple Keyboard, and I find it much better.
While I would not declare the new laptop keyboard a total fail at this point, I certainly cannot say I like it quite yet, and I am not sure I ever will.

 

[clangers23]

I guess I'm one of the few who really likes the keyboard? It takes some getting used to however it's worth considering the competition, I've had small ultraportable class laptops from HP, Lenovo and Dell recently. Only Lenovo's was a good typing experience, the Dell XPS 13 is particularly mushy. I've just got a 2017 MBP 13" non touch model and it feels even clickier than I recall my 2016 model being.

However I agree with the OP there is a flaw with the butterfly key mechanism in that they are susceptible to dirt clogging up then mechanism. I've taken to routinely using a can of compressed air and a needle to gently lift up the edge of the offending key and then blasting it with compressed air. It's worked so far and returned the key to full functionality. However I've noticed that I've now found myself testing the keys inadvertently looking for that telltale squashy feeling key.

I'm not sure how well these keyboards will survive several years of use? Then again are Apple still designing products with a lifespan of more than a couple of years now?

 

[lcseds]

*Snip....Apple ended up refunding me on the 15" in full plus 300.00 dollars toward a new iMac.

And so...I'm at the Apple Store talking to folks at the Genius Bar. It's all fine because they gave me 150.00 and a Apple TV for my troubles. I mention what happened with the keyboard and once again the techs are telling me what the issue is:

They gave you a refund and threw in another $300? Then they throw in an Apple TV and another $150? Yeah.......

 

[Ovedius]

Anyone who lives far away from an Apple Store or a certified service center should really keep this advice in mind.

I had a 12" Macbook where the Tab key eventually got a sunken corner (still in waranty) and getting it repaired was such a pain in the ass that I eventually just sold the cursed thing.

 

[old-wiz]

Anyone who lives far away from an Apple Store or a certified service center should really keep this advice in mind.

I had a 12" Macbook where the Tab key eventually got a sunken corner (still in waranty) and getting it repaired was such a pain in the ass that I eventually just sold the cursed thing.

I have th 2016 13" TB and while it has not broken I am ready to sell it. I am worried about what I will do when my current MBPr dies - I don't want the new keyboard but I don't think they will ever offer it again. The new keyboard is here to stay. rats rats

 

[doitdada]

DO NOT PURCHASE A MBP...

Finally

 

[project_2501]

How did you get a refund??? I've been fighting for one for ages.

.. here is my detailed review and log of terrible Apple customer experience

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2017-macbook-pro-13-non-tb-review.2056971/
[doublepost=1509741591][/doublepost]Well there people who really are trying to downplay the 2016/2017 keyboard problems.

They suggest every new laptop brings people out against them.

So I did a historical comparison between the MacBook Pro 2017, 2015 and the Dell XPS 13 using Google Trends as a rough n ready way to compare. It's clearly statistics not exact science but enough to worry me if I was head of Apple.

https://g.co/trends/MrL3U

 

[mcpryon2]

After getting my 2016 15" back from repair, where they put in a 2017 top case, it's relegated to clamshell mode. After it failed me on a project on the road I don't want to take it out of the studio.

Maybe I'm gun-shy, but I've asked Apple for a refund, or return for an iMac, despite having owned it for six months. If that fails I guess I sell it and take the $1,000 hit, take my ball, and go home.

 

[project_2501]

After getting my 2016 15" back from repair, where they put in a 2017 top case, it's relegated to clamshell mode. After it failed me on a project on the road I don't want to take it out of the studio.

Maybe I'm gun-shy, but I've asked Apple for a refund, or return for an iMac, despite having owned it for six months. If that fails I guess I sell it and take the $1,000 hit, take my ball, and go home.

Sorry to hear that man.

Apple have proven to be both incompetent and then not-nice in covering that up.

I've been chasing a refund for weeks.

 

[Fishrrman]

I'm expecting Apple to revise its keyboard design for the next version of MBPro's due in 2018.

Either "go back" the 2015-design keyboard or else introduce something completely new.

The ongoing keyboard problems with the 2016-17 design must be costing them a bundle in repairs, returns, and replacements.

And bear in mind that these failures are happening while the products are still relatively new.
What's going to happen to those (that are still working ok now), that start to evidence failure in three, four, five years on? Gonna be a lot of unhappy owners out there...

 

[triangletechie]

I had a '16 MBP and had a couple of stuck keys. The '17 model does feel better to type on and I'm already used to the newer design. I think the slight change they made underneath the keys on this year's model has remedied most of the problems. I don't expect any cosmetic changes from them on the MBP for a couple more years.

 

[tkermit]

The new keyboard is here to stay. rats rats

We'll see about that....

 

[seadragon]

The current MBP design iteration is a disaster. I’m waiting now for the next one. And for those touting the sales, what about returns and repairs? Where are those figures?

 

[Melbourne Park]

Can you buy a cover to keep the dust out? Just wondering ... some cover makers should be making a fortune.

 

[newellj]

I'm expecting Apple to revise its keyboard design for the next version of MBPro's due in 2018.

Either "go back" the 2015-design keyboard or else introduce something completely new.

The ongoing keyboard problems with the 2016-17 design must be costing them a bundle in repairs, returns, and replacements.

And bear in mind that these failures are happening while the products are still relatively new.
What's going to happen to those (that are still working ok now), that start to evidence failure in three, four, five years on? Gonna be a lot of unhappy owners out there...

I agree with all you wrote, except that given the continuing irreversible (I think) trend toward thinner, the basic design of the current keyboard is here to stay. That doesn't mean it can't be made more durable, and more pleasant to use, I hope. But I just replaced my early 2015 rMBP....with a refurb early 2015. I am not holding my breath. (And MagSafe and USB A ports are never coming back...)

 

[CaptRB]

They gave you a refund and threw in another $300? Then they throw in an Apple TV and another $150? Yeah.......

Exactly what happened.

The issue was the 3 trips to the Apple Store. Then I took a 5K i7 iMac and MacBook Air as part of an exchange and it had bad memory slots. So I then got a free upgrade to the 512 SSD.

At that point they gave me the Apple TV off the shelf and 150 dollars. So I think I did pretty well in spite of the serious amount of hassle and running around.

I would have been happier if the MPB had worked out because I really liked it.


R.

 

[Falhófnir]

I agree with all you wrote, except that given the continuing irreversible (I think) trend toward thinner, the basic design of the current keyboard is here to stay. That doesn't mean it can't be made more durable, and more pleasant to use, I hope. But I just replaced my early 2015 rMBP....with a refurb early 2015. I am not holding my breath. (And MagSafe and USB A ports are never coming back...)

I’d probably agree with you on USB A purely because by the time this design cycle is over there will probably be sufficient momentum behind C that it will be a lot less of an issue. On MagSafe, I wouldn’t be surprised to see something similar replace it, even if it’s more of a magnetic puck that does inductive or something. And as USB C and SD are two totally separate things it would be nice to see that return (even if microSD) in a rare concession to function over form.

On the keyboard, it’s been such a problem it wouldn’t surprise me to se them go with some other system entirely, be it that magnetic mechanism that’s been talked about, an improved scissor mechanism a la magic keyboard, or (god forbid) a touchscreen with haptic feedback.