Delicious Library for iPhone Pulled Due to Change in Amazon's Policies

[ss4rob]

This has already been posted before, but bares repeating. The Delicious Library application for iPhone uses NO Amazon APIs - it just VIEWS what is in your library. It doesn't connect to the web, update stats, pull info, reviews, value or anything, it simply VIEWS what was last synced via Wi-Fi from the desktop application.

The Amazon complaint is completely unwarranted. If that is the case, you could argue when you use the desktop's feature to export to web, and you view the resultant pages on iPhone, it too would be a violation. You could also argue when exporting to PDF and viewing that on your iPhone would violate terms too. Meh.

Amazon, please reconsider.

 

[REBELinBLUE]

I think it has everything to do with the fact you can get the information from their own amazon app, thus, more likely to purchase from them.

Even if that were the case, the Amazon app isn't available outside of the US and secondly how can I get a list of DVDs I already own from Amazon's app/site?

I think some people are misunderstanding what DL is, it tells me exactly what I already own. It is not an app for comparing prices, buying from Amazon etc.

No one is using DL for iPhone and purchasing DVDs/Books/Music as a result of it because it doesn't give you a list of similar products, it is just a list of what you already have, stored locally on your iPhone, never accessing the Amazon API or even the Internet.

 

[cubedweller]

For the reasons set forth in section 4e of their agreement. Clearly.

Uh. No? Not so clear.

4e states:

"You will not, without our express prior written approval requested via this link, use any Product Advertising Content on or in connection with any site or application designed or intended for use with a mobile phone or other handheld device."

So presuming the developer used "this" link, I'd like to know why he/she was denied.

 

[matticus008]

This has already been posted before, but bares repeating. The Delicious Library application for iPhone uses NO Amazon APIs - it just VIEWS what is in your library.

The Delicious Library desktop application uses several Amazon APIs. The license agreement states that developers are not allowed to use that data on mobile devices. DL for iPhone uses that data, and the iPhone is a mobile device. It is prohibited.

Whether the application accesses Amazon from the phone directly or indirectly is a distinction without a difference.

If that is the case, you could argue when you use the desktop's feature to export to web, and you view the resultant pages on iPhone, it too would be a violation.

If your purpose is to display it on a mobile device, it is a violation.

So presuming the developer used "this" link, I'd like to know why he/she was denied.

The answer is in the article. They're not currently approving any special requests for an exception.

I think it's so that when people are standing in retail stores, they cannot do price comparison shopping.

That's exactly what I said. It's to prohibit the development of powerful mobile applications that do price hunting by aggregating the data sources of the biggest online vendors.

Can you explain the second paragraph better though?

What is unclear? Amazon competes with retailers. Retailers are already unhappy about Amazon not being held to the same standards they are. If Amazon were to encourage tools to further undermine the retail industry, the lobbying groups would turn up the heat, and Amazon doesn't want that, so they are prohibiting mobile applications from using their data in any way, through any acquisition that is not through their website itself (which retailers have no choice but to put up with).

 

[vjl323]

Even if that were the case, the Amazon app isn't available outside of the US and secondly how can I get a list of DVDs I already own from Amazon's app/site?

I think some people are misunderstanding what DL is, it tells me exactly what I already own. It is not an app for comparing prices, buying from Amazon etc.

No one is using DL for iPhone and purchasing DVDs/Books/Music as a result of it because it doesn't give you a list of similar products, it is just a list of what you already have, stored locally on your iPhone, never accessing the Amazon API or even the Internet.

Pocketpedia from Bruji does this [and it is free!]. There are several other apps on the AppStore that use Amazon's API and dozens of WinCE mobile apps for Marketplace sellers that use their API to download [on a host computer] item prices and then display them on a PDA with a scanner when a used book dealer goes hunting for books. None of these vendors have been affected by this [i know, i work with most of them]. Something else must have happened with DL, as the reasons sighted in the article don't add up to what evidence has shown. DL for iPhone is not nearly as popular as the other apps for PDAs [that have wifi and cell access], so if Amazon wanted to go after a Big Fish, DL for iPhone would not be near the front of that line.

No, not affiliated with Bruji [just a happy customer]. Their DL-like app [which was available when the app store opened] is at: http://www.bruji.com/pocketpedia/

/vjl/

 

[z4n3]

x

 

[REBELinBLUE]

Pocketpedia from Bruji does this [and it is free!]. There are several other apps on the AppStore that use Amazon's API and dozens of WinCE mobile apps for Marketplace sellers that use their API to download [on a host computer] item prices and then display them on a PDA with a scanner when a used book dealer goes hunting for books. None of these vendors have been affected by this [i know, i work with most of them]. Something else must have happened with DL, as the reasons sighted in the article don't add up to what evidence has shown. DL for iPhone is not nearly as popular as the other apps for PDAs [that have wifi and cell access], so if Amazon wanted to go after a Big Fish, DL for iPhone would not be near the front of that line.

No, not affiliated with Bruji [just a happy customer]. Their DL-like app [which was available when the app store opened] is at: http://www.bruji.com/pocketpedia/

/vjl/

I know other apps do this, and in fact use the API (which to my knowledge has always been against the T&Cs); but I have no reason to suspect Will Shipley of lying about why it was removed and neither do Bruji it seems as they have stopped development on the next version of the iPhone app "For now we are going to hold off on our planned update." http://www.bruji.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3277#p12618

Still, here is hoping better data comes out of all of this. Amazon's data is quite frankly rubbish, the one thing I miss about Windows is DVD Profiler, which has a community created and moderated database, the data is much more accurate (for example it doesn't have genres full of crud like "3 for the price of 2", "2 for £20" etc). I'd love to see something like this implemented in DL or the *pedia apps

 

[0098386]

That's a shame, I rather like Delicious Library on my iMac. I would have bought the iPhone version in a second if 1) I knew it existed and 2) I had an iPhone .

But what about iPod Touches? I'm guessing the iPhone version worked just like the desktop version (using a camera to lookup barcodes). Couldn't they be classed as a portable computer, I mean surely there's some clause in there since it doesn't use a phone connection?

 

[GoCubsGo]

Even if that were the case, the Amazon app isn't available outside of the US and secondly how can I get a list of DVDs I already own from Amazon's app/site?

I think some people are misunderstanding what DL is, it tells me exactly what I already own. It is not an app for comparing prices, buying from Amazon etc.

No one is using DL for iPhone and purchasing DVDs/Books/Music as a result of it because it doesn't give you a list of similar products, it is just a list of what you already have, stored locally on your iPhone, never accessing the Amazon API or even the Internet.

I just don't look at DL (desktop or iPhone app) as being competetion for Amazon. It's an inventory app really.

I jut hope it doesn't get the master kill switch because I do enjoy it.

 

[zelmo]

I love being able to check DL on my iPhone to see if I'm about to buy a DVD I already own (me = dumbass).
I get the reason for the language in the user agreement and appreciate the stand Amazon needs to take, but I don't quite understand how this really applies to DL. It's just an inventory app and, while you could choose to populate it with things you want to buy instead, it still doesn't show a bunch of prices for a single item.

I hope they don't hit the kill switch for those that already have it.

Maybe Will ought to exclude the current price and current value fields from the sync to iPhone. Would that be sufficient?

 

[citi]

Guess that must be application #1999 for Blackberry no?

yup.

 

[sadpanda]

I know why ...

The Amazon mobile store, recently unveiled:

http://gizmodo.com/5311188/amazon-wireless-aims-to-make-cellphone-shopping-easier

I'm sure Amazon contends that DL is some sort of "competition"

 

[matticus008]

But what about iPod Touches? I'm guessing the iPhone version worked just like the desktop version (using a camera to lookup barcodes). Couldn't they be classed as a portable computer, I mean surely there's some clause in there since it doesn't use a phone connection?

An iPod touch is a mobile device. There's nothing about a phone connection at all. Pulling data through Amazon APIs for use on all mobile devices is prohibited by the basic agreement without separate authorization.

It's not using a mobile device to access the data, not using a phone data network for transport, but simply using data pulled through their developer APIs on mobile platforms. It may seem like a silly restriction, and it may be a silly restriction, but it is the restriction, and it's fairly straightforward.

I think some people are misunderstanding what DL is, it tells me exactly what I already own. It is not an app for comparing prices, buying from Amazon etc.

The misunderstanding is what the Amazon agreement states, and not anything else.

Delicious Library for iPhone uses Amazon data pulled from their developer APIs (via the regular desktop version) and displays that data on a mobile device (iPhone/iPod). It is therefore prohibited by the licensing agreement. Period. Whether it's used for shopping or whether the mobile device accesses the data directly doesn't matter. Another application doing the same might be ignoring the restriction or they might have an older agreement with Amazon, but DL's agreement prohibits it.

 

[jemafa]

This sucks! I recently purchased DL mainly because of the iphone app! I needed a program to catalog my 1000+ book library and this one had most of the features I was looking for. Having the iphone listing of my books was the most important of these, as I often stand in the bookstore trying to recall if I've already bought/read a particular book or whether I liked a certain author's writing. Having it readily accessible on my phone is great! I really hope that I will at least be able to still sync with the desktop application and still have a listing of my books!

I've actually started using DL in conjunction with Barnes & Noble's mobile app, as I will look up a book/author I know I am missing (from looking at my DL application) and will add it to my 'cart' in the B&N application to remember to order when I go into the store (I don't order online as there's no secure place to have things delivered, so I always order in the store to pick up there), or if the local store has it in stock, I will use their feature that lets you have them hold instock items.

Maybe Barnes & Noble needs to partner up with DL to have you be able to link to THEIR application/store inside DL instead of Amazon!

 

[aristotle]

If you don't like this, send them feedback about it.

Here is what I wrote:

I have been a customer of Amazon for some time but I would like to log a complaint against your use policy which prohibits use of your API with mobile devices. I like to keep my collection of Blu-rays organized with Delicious Library and I recently learned that the mobile edition for the iPhone has been discontinued because of a request by Amazon to have it removed for the Appstore.

I would like to continue to be a customer of Amazon but I find your arbitrary rules concerning mobile devices to be unfair and I may have to reevaluate where I purchase my physical media from.

and here was their response from Customer Service:

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback, I will send off your comments to the appropriate department. Just know you we do value you as a customer and would hate to see you consider purchasing your physical media elsewhere. My sincerest apologizes for the inconvenience you may be experiencing over all this.

 

[GoCubsGo]

^ That response is classic form letter. The person who issued such a response is probably completely unable to comprehend it..

 

[JoeG4]

simple reason:

Amazon plans to release their own iApp.

 

[jwdsail]

Delicious Library for iPhone uses Amazon data pulled from their developer APIs (via the regular desktop version) and displays that data on a mobile device (iPhone/iPod).

I'm sorry, but DL on the iPod/iPhone is using *my* data about *my property*.

Once DL on the desktop uses the Amazon data (gathered via the api) the *results* are based on *my* data of what *I* own. That's what the DL iPod/iPhone app is showing, the *results*. Amazon has no rightful claim on the *results* regarding *my* property. DL on the iPod/iPhone presents me *my* data about *my* property. If the iPhone app used the Amazon apis directly, Amazon would have a say in the matter. It doesn't, and they don't.

Until Amazon changes this behavior, they can take their store and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

I say this as someone that's used Amazon since it was a week old. I say this as someone that's been an Amazon Prime customer since that was first offered.

Amazon is making a mistake claiming my data as theirs. Because it's going to cost them my future business.

 

[matticus008]

I'm sorry, but DL on the iPod/iPhone is using *my* data about *my property*.

Unless you're Jeff Bezos, that's flatly wrong. The data comes from Amazon. If you or a developer want access to Amazon's data and services, you have to make an agreement with Amazon to access it.

Once DL on the desktop uses the Amazon data (gathered via the api) the *results* are based on *my* data of what *I* own.

A flood of asterisks doesn't change the basic fact that you don't own the Amazon data.

If the iPhone app used the Amazon apis directly, Amazon would have a say in the matter. It doesn't, and they don't.

It doesn't matter. Direct or indirect, it's Amazon's data and Amazon's free service they're providing, and they set the rules. Stupid rules they may very well be, but that's that. You're accessing Amazon-owned data and using Amazon-owned APIs, it's Amazon's decision what conditions to offer it under.

Amazon is making a mistake claiming my data as theirs.

Rather the opposite, humorously enough. You're trying to claim that you own Amazon-created, Amazon-compiled, Amazon-stored, Amazon-distributed, Amazon-owned data simply because you were able to gain access to it. The real world doesn't work that way. It never has and almost certainly never will.

 

[fredfnord]

I don't understand

I know that I would pay money just to have a list of all the books (for example) that I own on my iPhone, with or without any other ancillary data. Are you saying that because the books were entered into my computer by scanning the bar codes and looking up the names of the books via Amazon's API, that Amazon has a legally enforceable claim to absolute ownership of a list of titles of books written and owned by other people, distinguished solely by the fact that I happen to own all of them, when I myself have never entered into any kind of agreement with Amazon? (Clearly a list of titles of books is not a copyrightable work under the terms of copyright as I understand them, so this cannot be a copyright issue.)

To put it another way, are you saying that I am bound by the terms of the agreement which the software manufacturer has with the supplier of their information, not to use this list of titles of books that I own in certain ways, although I am not even party to this agreement?

Or perhaps that if I, say, export a list of titles of my books to a text file and then import that into my iPhone, then Delicious Monster is liable because the information that they gathered from Amazon is now on a mobile device?

There's something wrong with this picture.

-fred

 

[matticus008]

Are you saying that because the books were entered into my computer by scanning the bar codes and looking up the names of the books via Amazon's API, that Amazon has a legally enforceable claim to absolute ownership of a list of titles of books written and owned by other people

What? No. This really isn't rocket science.

Amazon says you can't use their APIs under their free mass license in conjunction with an application for a mobile device. If you want to look up ISBNs on Amazon.com and export a list of titles to your iPhone, have at it.

As a developer, however, you cannot create an application to use Amazon's APIs to pull data for manipulation or display on a mobile device.

This has nothing to do with ownership of a list of titles in your possession. It has to do with hooking into Amazon's databases via developer APIs to extract data, regardless of purpose.

To put it another way, are you saying that I am bound by the terms of the agreement which the software manufacturer has with the supplier of their information, not to use this list of titles of books that I own in certain ways, although I am not even party to this agreement?

Your list of books is irrelevant. Amazon has no interest in or claim to it. This is about their databases, selection, and coordination, and the rules governing third party access to it.

The developer can't release the application under their license terms with Amazon. The application was pulled for that reason, pending an alternate arrangement. That's all there is to it.