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macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
55,476
17,817
Despite previous rumors that Dell would be using the Music Match software as a rebranded Dell Music Store, a SFGate article reports otherwise:

Last week, Dell Computer Inc. said it was working on its own downloadable music service. That fueled industry speculation that Dell was somehow involved in Musicmatch's new service. But Musicmatch said Dell is not involved in the project.

Music Match provides comparable licensing terms as Apple's iTunes Music store. This includes 3 active PCs at one time, may burn playlists 5 times (before having to rearrange), and no specific limit on how many times a song is burned.
 

Ja Di ksw

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
1,310
6
which means there's still ANOTHER music store that is going to come out for windows. Apple needs to hurry up with the windows version of iTunes before all the windows users get set in their ways of using a copy of iTMS
 

geerlingguy

macrumors 6502a
Feb 11, 2003
562
6
St. Louis, USA
My schpeel

My take on the situation:

I think that all these companies copying of Apple is great for Apple because:

1) Consumers will get a better deal because:
2) Apple will improve its service to make it better than the rest

(and we all know that Apple's will be the best :) )
 

DGFan

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2003
531
0
Let me explain something

It is important for Apple to come out with iTMS for Windows soon but don't get excited about the number of stores selling on Windows.

There are two markets here: AAC and WMA.

People are going to choose between iPod/AAC and (insert crappy player here)/WMA.

Apple needs a strong showing. But if they get that strong showing on Windows (which they already have on Macs and will likely get on Windows considering the number of Windows iPods sold) then the number of Windows stores selling WMA could actually be a detriment to those stores. The number of WMA stores in the marketplace is not going to have an effect on the volume of WMA sales. So more players = less profit for each player (or even losses).

Apple has a monopoly on protected AAC for the iPod. But because there are substitute products in the marketplace they aren't (and can't) excercise monopoly pricing power. People would just shift to WMA and other players. But with that monopoly they become the only source for songs and players. Which means that they get all the profits.

So Apple needs to get in the game - and do so soon. But the number of other stores out there is a non-factor.
 

bertagert

macrumors 6502
Jan 13, 2003
326
0
Re: Let me explain something

Originally posted by DGFan


Apple has a monopoly on protected AAC for the iPod.
I'm under the impression that a company could use AAC on their player. I'm not positive but AAC is not owned by Apple, its actually a standard from the MPEG group. So, I think it could be used on other players, the players just have to support AAC which no one does right now except for the ipod.

As for the ITMS on windows. Apple does not need to bring it out so quick. Having it in a few months would be the same as bringing it out now. People are either going to use it or not. Look at all the companies that were great and now aren't so great in the P2P biz. It doesn't matter when you start, as long as you have the better product and advertise it the right way you'll get the business. I think Apple does a great job of developing software. If the windows version is as good as the mac version, everything will work out. Don't worry about a few months.
 

coolfactor

macrumors 603
Jul 29, 2002
5,303
5,823
Vancouver, BC
Timing is everything!

Steve Jobs and the rest of Apple management knows exactly what they are doing. They started building their focus on music enjoyment over two years prior to unveiling the Music Store. They know the competition well, and they're well aware of the copy-cat "me too" nature of the business.

If Apple were to have released the iTMS for Windows already, then these other startups would be getting all the stardom and glory. But by waiting, they can make a bold entrance *after* the market is already used to digital music download services. It's brilliant.

So, don't worry. It'll happen exactly how we all want it to.
 

DGFan

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2003
531
0
Re: Re: Let me explain something

Originally posted by bertagert
I'm under the impression that a company could use AAC on their player. I'm not positive but AAC is not owned by Apple, its actually a standard from the MPEG group. So, I think it could be used on other players, the players just have to support AAC which no one does right now except for the ipod.

Right now Apple has a monopoly. There are no competitors. The barriers to entry into that market are not very high due to AAC and the protection format (forget the name) being standards that can be licensed from third parties. But those things have no bearing on the fact that Apple has a monopoly since they have no competitors.
 

frozenstar

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2003
210
0
Re: Re: Re: Let me explain something

Originally posted by DGFan
Right now Apple has a monopoly. There are no competitors. The barriers to entry into that market are not very high due to AAC and the protection format (forget the name) being standards that can be licensed from third parties. But those things have no bearing on the fact that Apple has a monopoly since they have no competitors.

It doesn't have to be licensed. It's an OPEN standard.

I think your point is irrelevant. If iTMS Windows ends up selling music in significant volumes, the competing portable music players are all going to get AAC support in no time. There goes the "monopoly" you keep talking about.
 

Flowbee

macrumors 68030
Dec 27, 2002
2,944
0
Alameda, CA
Re: iTMS for winsucks where are you?

Originally posted by Wash!!
Come Apple is time or you will miss the boat for market share..

A year from now nobody will remember who was the first, second, or third to bring out a windows-compatible online music store. In the end, consumers will go with the company that has the best combination of software, service, and selection.
 

mjtomlin

Guest
Jan 19, 2002
384
0
FairPlay...

It's cool to see that Apple seems to have set a standard for what may become basic DRM restrictions in the music industry. ;)

On another note... would people please stop misusing the word "monopoly"

To say Apple has a monopoly over it's own products is ridiculous. That's like saying only Toyota can say what goes in their cars. Well of course they can, it's their product. "Monopoly" only applies when that control moves beyond your own products out to the rest of industry.

True, Apple "controls" DRM on the Mac, because they created it (in agreement with the music industry). Apple does not have a "monopoly" over the standard DRM file format, only because a standard does not currently exist.

Apple, Microsoft and any other DRM players (Software, Music, Movie industries) need to get together and develop a standard cross-platform format and technology.
 

the_dalex

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
89
0
Apple-MusicMatch

Could it possibly be that Apple is behind this launch surruptitiously? That since the music match SW is what is used for the PC iPod that this is an interim step before all the kinks are out?

I'm surprised that I've only seen this thought once so far... when MusicMatch announced the service, this was my first thought. The similar price structure, current MusicMatch-Apple relationship, and similar DRM really pointed that way. Either that, or MusicMatch learned a lot about how Apple did the iTunes music store from working with them and decided to compete...
 

MasonMcD

macrumors newbie
Jun 3, 2003
20
0
Seattle, WA
What does the quote mean?

Last week, Dell Computer Inc. said it was working on its own downloadable music service. That fueled industry speculation that Dell was somehow involved in Musicmatch's new service. But Musicmatch said Dell is not involved in the project.

Now does that mean Dell was not involved in the creation of the MusicMatch online store, which may be very true - they just slapped their brand on it, or that they came up with their own store?
 

DGFan

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2003
531
0
Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me explain something

Originally posted by frozenstar
It doesn't have to be licensed. It's an OPEN standard.

I think your point is irrelevant. If iTMS Windows ends up selling music in significant volumes, the competing portable music players are all going to get AAC support in no time. There goes the "monopoly" you keep talking about.

If "it" is AAC you are correct. If "it" is the protection applied to AAC songs bought from the iTMS you are wrong. That has to be licensed. It is not free.

Other companies coming out with players that support protected AAC isn't going to have a negative impact on iTMS sales. It could negatively impact iPod sales though.
 

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
Re: Re: Let me explain something

Originally posted by bertagert
I'm under the impression that a company could use AAC on their player. I'm not positive but AAC is not owned by Apple, its actually a standard from the MPEG group. So, I think it could be used on other players, the players just have to support AAC which no one does right now except for the ipod.

AAC is an open standard. AAC/p is an open standard. FairPlay (the protection provider for all iTMS songs) is NOT an open standard, last I checked, and Apple has complete control over it.

Yes, any player can implement AAC. However, not all players will be necessarily granted rights to play AAC/p[FairPlay] content.


As for the ITMS on windows. Apple does not need to bring it out so quick. Having it in a few months would be the same as bringing it out now. People are either going to use it or not. Look at all the companies that were great and now aren't so great in the P2P biz. It doesn't matter when you start, as long as you have the better product and advertise it the right way you'll get the business.

I agree. We've had more than a decade where "first to market" was the marketing slogan driving nearly all development. I think customers have grown to realize that quality is important. Think of all the "first to market" search engines out there: Google didn't really break out until 1999-2000. How often do you use AltaVista or NorthernLight these days? Yahoo! is still around (obviously), but that's mostly because it took the minor "first out" advantage and parlayed it into a much larger realm of enterprises.

On the other hand, Apple does need to pay close attention to MusicMatch's offering, and even directly one-up it. MusicMatch got nearly everything right, from first glance. It even seems like they were able to overcome WMA's problems with regard to authorizing/deauthorizing three computers at a time. Apple, finally, has legitimate competition here, and the iTMS people will need to react to this.


I think Apple does a great job of developing software. If the windows version is as good as the mac version, everything will work out. Don't worry about a few months.

The question is whether Apple can gain sufficient mindshare. You can gain mindshare by being the only guy out there, or by having a better product than anyone else, or by sheer marketting dollars. Given that much more is at stake for Apple here than a few 99-cent track sales (ie, iPod and Mac sales and overall Apple branding), Apple certainly has more reason to put its full muscle behind iTMS than MusicMatch or BuyMusic. Dell's another story, but we'll have to judge their execution when they debut.

The question is: where does Apple push, given that the first-to-market (with a viable product) advantage is lost? Better product, or better marketing?
 

dstorey

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2002
527
0
Re: Re: iTMS for winsucks where are you?

Originally posted by Flowbee
A year from now nobody will remember who was the first, second, or third to bring out a windows-compatible online music store. In the end, consumers will go with the company that has the best combination of software, service, and selection.

while its true that no one will remember who came first, will everone go with whats best? sure they will cause we all know Mac OS has 95% of the market share , while windows being so terrible only has around 3% of the market :rolleyes:

just causr apple may be the best, doesn't mean it'll be the most popular. I would hedge that most people will just use what comes installed on their computer, like most people use IE, WMP, MSN Messanger, and I guess most people on AOL use AOL IM the most. In that respect Dell has it made iin their area as they will install on all their computers, M$ will do the same as IE, etc etc and bundle it, thus a lot of people will probably use that, unless they get wise all of a sudden, and the same could proably be said about AOL if they dont lose all their market share like they have been doing. This leaves apple needing to find a way to get people to look at their system, see its better and install it...not a problem on the mac. The iPod could be the key here, if it maintains it's hipness and continues to stay ahead (will it if everyones buying wma and it can't play them?) , advertising certainly will play a role, so could tie-ins that get it on a computer, but AOL or cable cmpanies seem the only logical partners here (but AOL seem more in bed with M$ since the netscape agreement) IBM would be ideal but they dont really have a presence in consumer pc space these days. A web version of itms on amazon would get market penetration, but it seems Amazon wants to go it alone...time will see. Another way is with the value added extras.....most likely to buy 99 cent songs are of course teenagers, who dont have credit cards...this causes problems, so why not sell scratch cards at Apple stores, comp usa, maybe newsagents etc, where a kid can put money on it and use the code to download like pre-pay mobiles. Gift voucers could follow a similar route for the holiday season. Its little things like that that could maske or break a service and help it become the most popular. I just hope Apple wins the battle, especially as if they lose, the music industry will be standardized on WMA and controlled by M$...not worth thinking about....

I wonder who is developing the dell music store if not music match....dell arn't known for employing a lot of programmers or spending monwey on research...either they wished it up by magic or they are rebadging another service...
 

eggman76

macrumors newbie
Apr 28, 2003
2
0
Re: Re: Re: Re: Let me explain something

Originally posted by frozenstar
It doesn't have to be licensed. It's an OPEN standard.

I think your point is irrelevant. If iTMS Windows ends up selling music in significant volumes, the competing portable music players are all going to get AAC support in no time. There goes the "monopoly" you keep talking about.

Then Apple would still be the only vendor of AAC formatted songs, regardless of player. At least until another service decides to release songs in AAC.
 

gopy

macrumors newbie
Jul 24, 2003
27
0
Waiting to Upgrade Service

1. Apple reveals "revolutionary" service (iTMS)/product (iPod) only the Mac.
2. Everyone copies Apple.
3. In prepping the Windows version, Apple thinks, "With all the copies out there, why use Apple?"

So now, while Apple's been getting the praise for the store, there's a team writing iTunes for Windows, and another team updating the service.
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
Originally posted by frozenstar
It doesn't have to be licensed. It's an OPEN standard.

You are missing the point. It doesn't freaking matter if its an open standard if no one uses it. You can beat your chest and yell open standard all you want. Fact of the matter is WMA support is included in all those other "crappy players" which totals a higher % of the overall market even though the iPod is #1 in the individual unit breakdowns. I've read, I think it was cnet.com, that the iPod is around 26-27% of the market. (That was last fall so it might be higher at this point.) Who owns the other 74%? Those crappy players.
 

mjtomlin

Guest
Jan 19, 2002
384
0
If you build it, they will come...

Hmm... If iTMS for Windows turns out to be a big hit for Apple, maybe the other MP3 player manufacturers will want to incorporate FairPlay/AAC into their devices?

I mean honestly, who in their right mind would want to be stuck under Microsoft's thumb and depend solely on MS technology?
 

drewman

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2003
5
0
My neighbor works for MusicMatch. The relationship with Apple has ended. They are doing this alone.

Also they are supposed to be setting up an online community to allow people to legally trade songs. If you accept a song from another community member, MusicMatch logs it and charges you the appropriate amount.

Andrew
 

fraeone

macrumors regular
Sep 26, 2003
219
9
Seattle, WA
All this competition will be great for us, the end users. I haven't used ITMS or any of the Windows offerings, and probably won't for a while. I saw an interview with the CEO of Maverick Records and he was saying that online distribution is right, but that songs should be more like $.20 .. With enough competition that will be a reality. For $.20 I might even be able to put up with some DRM :)

fraeone
 

MasonMcD

macrumors newbie
Jun 3, 2003
20
0
Seattle, WA
Originally posted by drewman
My neighbor works for MusicMatch. The relationship with Apple has ended. They are doing this alone.

Also they are supposed to be setting up an online community to allow people to legally trade songs. If you accept a song from another community member, MusicMatch logs it and charges you the appropriate amount.

Andrew

The appropriate amount being what? If it's on MM, then why not just download it? If it's not, how do they determine how to charge?
 

drewman

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2003
5
0
You are supposed to be chatting with you friends on their service - you say check out this song. They accept and get sent the song from you. Musicmatch charges the usual .99 and they get an authorized song (can't just e-mail these songs.)

Andrew
 
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