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tmarks11

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2010
509
32
Apple must be revealing the 12" retina Air on Monday, as Dell and HP already have an ultrabook out :eek:
I am not sure how one is related to the other.

Ultrabooks have been available from a wide variety of companies for several years, many of them of similar quality and as thin as the MBA.

Dell XPS13 is an industry leader because of the bezel size. That is a product worth beating. But it has been out for two months now, so why does that mean Apple must act now?

I am not really sure what about the HP Spectre 360 would drive Apple in to frenzied action to release their product RIGHT NOW! that they have been working on for years. So it folds into a "tablet"; big deal. Lenovo (and others) have been selling convertible tablets like this for years... and Apple has (rightly) ignored them.
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
767
Switzerland
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Dell XPS13 is an industry leader because of the bezel size. That is a product worth beating. But it has been out for two months now, so why does that mean Apple must act now?

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In all fairness, they should have updated the Air's screen years ago. It felt dated when it was first released and now it's just a dinosaur.

The 12" MacBook isn't in the same category as the 13" crowd. Its screen is likely too small to be a primary computer for most people. It's more of a secondary, accessory-type machine. Honestly, I seriously doubt they'll sell a lot of them once the initial hype is over. But then nobody really cares about the 12" version. What's important about its release is the onslaught of innovative new technology Apple has come up with - that will slowly seep into all other Apple products as well. Plus we're definitely going to see a bezel-free MBA next year when Dell's exclusivity contract has run out. Until then I'll be using the crap out of my XPS 13. Loving every second with it.
 

zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
3,677
In all fairness, they should have updated the Air's screen years ago. It felt dated when it was first released and now it's just a dinosaur.

The 12" MacBook isn't in the same category as the 13" crowd. Its screen is likely too small to be a primary computer for most people. It's more of a secondary, accessory-type machine. Honestly, I seriously doubt they'll sell a lot of them once the initial hype is over. But then nobody really cares about the 12" version. What's important about its release is the onslaught of innovative new technology Apple has come up with - that will slowly seep into all other Apple products as well. Plus we're definitely going to see a bezel-free MBA next year when Dell's exclusivity contract has run out. Until then I'll be using the crap out of my XPS 13. Loving every second with it.

I think you underestimate the usefulness of a high-res 12" screen. I switched from a 14" 1920x1080 Thinkpad to the Surface Pro 3 and a big part of the reason I was able to complete the switch is that it felt like I wasn't actually giving up much screen real estate.

I am doubtful that we will see a bezel-less Air. First, there isn't much stopping them from making one that's virtually the same now - have you ever had a modern laptop screen apart? Second, in order to get that screen Dell has to make concessions like the awkward camera placement.
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
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I think you underestimate the usefulness of a high-res 12" screen. I switched from a 14" 1920x1080 Thinkpad to the Surface Pro 3 and a big part of the reason I was able to complete the switch is that it felt like I wasn't actually giving up much screen real estate.



I am doubtful that we will see a bezel-less Air. First, there isn't much stopping them from making one that's virtually the same now - have you ever had a modern laptop screen apart? Second, in order to get that screen Dell has to make concessions like the awkward camera placement.


Apple had to make compromises with the camera in the 12" MacBook as well. We have Surface Pro 3s at work and I find them way to small to do anything but cursory editing on the go.

Sharp makes the screens for the XPS 13 and is the only manufacturer capable of making a screen like that at the moment. I'm sure that'll change soon, but Apple's traditional suppliers (LG and Samsung) aren't quite there yet. There's a reason why the XPS 13 is the only notebook with a screen like that and according to Dell, Sharp has given them exclusivity for it for 12 months.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
Apple had to make compromises with the camera in the 12" MacBook as well. We have Surface Pro 3s at work and I find them way to small to do anything but cursory editing on the go.

Sharp makes the screens for the XPS 13 and is the only manufacturer capable of making a screen like that at the moment. I'm sure that'll change soon, but Apple's traditional suppliers (LG and Samsung) aren't quite there yet. There's a reason why the XPS 13 is the only notebook with a screen like that and according to Dell, Sharp has given them exclusivity for it for 12 months.

Not sure what you mean by "a screen like that" but Sharp makes a ton of screens for Apple--an entire Sharp LCD plant is devoted to supplying Apple--and several other laptop manufacturers have made laptops with very small bezels, LG in particular. I doubt there's any reason why Apple wouldn't be able to do so too.
 

newellj

macrumors G3
Oct 15, 2014
8,127
3,030
East of Eden
I hate the waste of bezel space, too, but ask anyone who uses the camera on the new XPS 13 whether Dell got their display/bezel/camera arrangement worked out nicely or not. ;)
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
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I hate the waste of bezel space, too, but ask anyone who uses the camera on the new XPS 13 whether Dell got their display/bezel/camera arrangement worked out nicely or not. ;)


'Ask anyone who uses the camera' - I wouldn't be able to as the number of people using webcams on a regular basis for serious work is zilch. The few people who do would also not be happy with the 12" MacBook and it's low-red camera from yesteryear.

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Not sure what you mean by "a screen like that"


A panel that can be mounted in a near bezel-less construction. Again, Dell has secured exclusivity on that one.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
'Ask anyone who uses the camera' - I wouldn't be able to as the number of people using webcams on a regular basis for serious work is zilch. The few people who do would also not be happy with the 12" MacBook and it's low-red camera from yesteryear.

I've worked at companies where videoconferencing via laptops was basically mandatory for certain meetings. Was it necessary for "serious work"? Maybe not, but it's what people did.

As for the low-res camera from yesteryear, that's laughable. You realize that front-facing cameras are usually used for videoconferencing, where the video is downsampled and compressed into kilobytes per second, right? The resolution is essentially irrelevant. Much more important is that the focus and white balance are correct, and we don't know about that since nobody has had a chance to review the rMB yet.

A panel that can be mounted in a near bezel-less construction. Again, Dell has secured exclusivity on that one.

Did they secure exclusivity from LG, who makes the Blade line of laptops which seem to have bezels that are at least as small?
 

Vilacr

macrumors regular
Feb 4, 2002
147
15
HP Spectre x360

Purchased the HP spectre x360 on yesterday to compare to my 2013 macbook pro 13. Im looking for a newer machine. I must say this HP is a nice machine. To me the surface pro 3 was the best windows machine until now. The spectre is a very nice premium built laptop. My only gripe is the darn apps that do not work with the touchpad properly. If not for that this would be the perfect laptop...other than windows. Maybe windows 10 will be better.
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
767
Switzerland
I've worked at companies where videoconferencing via laptops was basically mandatory for certain meetings. Was it necessary for "serious work"? Maybe not, but it's what people did.

As for the low-res camera from yesteryear, that's laughable. You realize that front-facing cameras are usually used for videoconferencing, where the video is downsampled and compressed into kilobytes per second, right? The resolution is essentially irrelevant. Much more important is that the focus and white balance are correct, and we don't know about that since nobody has had a chance to review the rMB yet.



Did they secure exclusivity from LG, who makes the Blade line of laptops which seem to have bezels that are at least as small?

You do know that the you're refering to a laptop that's 4 years old, isn't being sold anymore and had a 1024x768 res screen? Plus the bezels look thin but they're nowhere near the XPS 13's. (just check out these pics here: http://thetechjournal.com/electronics/laptop/lg-p430-and-p530-blade-laptops.xhtml)

Also, the LG Blade models weighed 4 pounds and upwards.

Yes, some businesses use video conferencing. They'll neither be using the XPS 13 nor the 12" Macbook (or, in all likelihood, any other Apple computer).
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
You do know that the you're refering to a laptop that's 4 years old, isn't being sold anymore and had a 1024x768 res screen? Plus the bezels look thin but they're nowhere near the XPS 13's. (just check out these pics here: http://thetechjournal.com/electronics/laptop/lg-p430-and-p530-blade-laptops.xhtml)

Also, the LG Blade models weighed 4 pounds and upwards.
...

Right, the bezel looks just as thin on that LG as the Dell's to me. Do you have actual numbers?

And all I said was that Dell doesn't have an "exclusive contract" on thin bezels. Who gives a crap about resolution or weight or release date or anything else? Did you want to talk about thin bezels or didn't you?
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
767
Switzerland
Right, the bezel looks just as thin on that LG as the Dell's to me. /QUOTE]


Are you blind? The thing has a small plastic frame (I'd say about 5mm) plus another 5mm on the sides of the screen only when its on. The overall bezel is about double that of the XPS 13.

And yes, weight makes all the difference as the stability of the screen is essentially the only factor limiting how narrow the bezel can be.
 

motrek

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,613
305
...
And yes, weight makes all the difference as the stability of the screen is essentially the only factor limiting how narrow the bezel can be.

Clearly you've never used a Sony laptop.
 

Vesuvio Cat

macrumors regular
Jan 30, 2010
196
38
Having owned both a MBA and a XPS 13 (work laptop that had to be replaced because of a broken touch pad), I can say that the XPS 13 is just as much a piece of junk as any other Windows laptop.

That being said, I have a 2011 Windows 7 Asus that still pulls through and has outlived most of my laptops with a splendid original battery,
 

gregvet

macrumors regular
Jan 21, 2008
104
2
Brighton, UK
Re rumours

Indeed, according to rumors.

Interesting that there has been no actual "evidence" like a leaked photo to indicate that Apple is working on a laptop that's thinner than the MBA.

Disadvantages to a thinner laptop: no standard USB ports, no standard MagSafe charging connector, no Thunderbolt/DisplayPort port, and no fan (= less performance).

So people think Apple will produce a laptop that's slower, hotter, and spectacularly inconvenient to use, all in the name of shaving off a couple millimeters from the back.

Doesn't seem likely to me.

Please let me know when you are planning on selling your apple stock, so that I can make sure to buy some ;)
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
767
Switzerland
Having owned both a MBA and a XPS 13 (work laptop that had to be replaced because of a broken touch pad), I can say that the XPS 13 is just as much a piece of junk as any other Windows laptop.



,


I've had to get my 15" Retina MacBook Pro's display replaced three times already. Let's generalize this into claiming the entire Mac lineup are pieces of junk.
 

mubeenshahid

macrumors member
Jan 5, 2015
41
0
Having owned both a MBA and a XPS 13 (work laptop that had to be replaced because of a broken touch pad), I can say that the XPS 13 is just as much a piece of junk as any other Windows laptop.

That being said, I have a 2011 Windows 7 Asus that still pulls through and has outlived most of my laptops with a splendid original battery,
Same issues are present with brand new macbooks
 

MacGekko

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2009
722
276
This would be the only laptop I would consider if I switched from a Macbook Pro but the OS and tradtional Macbook trackpad are the biggest things keeping me from changing, how does the Dell trackpad function for web browsing?

I have read that you can't scroll fast down the page, it is just in increments when utilize the swipe feature.
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
767
Switzerland
This would be the only laptop I would consider if I switched from a Macbook Pro but the OS and tradtional Macbook trackpad are the biggest things keeping me from changing, how does the Dell trackpad function for web browsing?



I have read that you can't scroll fast down the page, it is just in increments when utilize the swipe feature.


The thing is: it only works well with Internet Explorer. With that, scrolling is smooth and fast, comparable to that on any MacBook. The other browsers, however, seem to have the whole scrolling thing backwards.
 

MacGekko

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2009
722
276
The thing is: it only works well with Internet Explorer. With that, scrolling is smooth and fast, comparable to that on any MacBook. The other browsers, however, seem to have the whole scrolling thing backwards.

There were some reviewers that wrote the Dell trackpad was very close to the Macbook trackpad while others said it was still very glitchy and at times unresponsive or the cursor would lag but if it works well with internet explorer I presume it will work well with the new Spartan browser, I'm not sure I would move back to Windows but it would be nice to have some quality alternatives.

Now let's see if they bring all of the advancements to the 15 in. Dell XPS, although it will probably be comparable to the Macbook Pro 15 in. pricewise but I do prefer matte screens which Apple has given up on.
 

Vesuvio Cat

macrumors regular
Jan 30, 2010
196
38
All I'm saying is that I've owned both notebooks, and the Dell XPS is, at the very best, a nice looking computer that breaks down over several months of work. It's all metal on the outside and cheap plastic and rubber on the inside. Not to mention the fact that it's buggy as hell and the track pad will piss out on you within the first six months.

MacBook Pro or Macbook Air? Not so much. And if you've gotten a dud in the past (with faults), that can't be generalized to the whole line. My entire company was issues Dell XPS 13s and wanted to throw them against the wall after a few months.
 

kis

Suspended
Aug 10, 2007
1,702
767
Switzerland
All I'm saying is that I've owned both notebooks, and the Dell XPS is, at the very best, a nice looking computer that breaks down over several months of work. It's all metal on the outside and cheap plastic and rubber on the inside. Not to mention the fact that it's buggy as hell and the track pad will piss out on you within the first six months.



MacBook Pro or Macbook Air? Not so much. And if you've gotten a dud in the past (with faults), that can't be generalized to the whole line. My entire company was issues Dell XPS 13s and wanted to throw them against the wall after a few months.


Yeah, whatever - the XPS 13 hasn't been available in Switzerland for "a few months". The first ones were delivered in late February / early March. You do know that there's a new 2015 model, right?

'Cheap plastic and rubber on the inside' - are you effing kidding me? Have you ever seen the inside of any computer? I didn't think so.

Just troll somewhere else.

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There were some reviewers that wrote the Dell trackpad was very close to the Macbook trackpad while others said it was still very glitchy and at times unresponsive or the cursor would lag but if it works well with internet explorer I presume it will work well with the new Spartan browser,


As far as browsers go, it definitely only works well with IE right now. The other browsers don't offer smooth scrolling on Windows with any trackpad at them moment. Google has recently announced that they'll be supporting Microsoft's new input framework, so things should be ok in Chrome very soon. The trackpad is fine and has so far been the best in any Windows laptop I've tried, but the ones Apple uses are still a tad better. Doesn't really matter so much on the XPS 13 as most people will make use of the touch screen anyway.
 
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