Design Election: iPad Pro vs Surface Pro 3 vs Pixel C

[VforVelveta]

Pixel C - First truly innovative Surface-like device I've seen since the Surface.

Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but what exactly about the Pixel C is "innovative"? The whole charging of the keyboard via induction from the tablet is nice, but it seems like a better solution is a keyboard that never needs to be charged at all and is powered by the tablet directly. Plus you can make the keyboard slimmer since you need very little extra electronics, e.g. battery, charging circuitry, bluetooth circuitry, etc.

Outside of the keyboard charging method, seems like its just another run of the mill android tablet. No stylus support, no built in and widely supported multi-tasking modes, and the worst of the three in terms of tablet optimized software.

I think one point in the iPad Pro's favor that's overlooked is the fact that the smart connector is at least partially open to third parties, and based on their wording will eventually have a published spec. Logitech has already announced a keyboard, and I think it's safe to assume there will be more eventually, along with who knows what other kinds of accessories. This opens the door to have a plethora of options, which will make the cons of Apple's keyboard cover essentially moot.

 

[EthanNixon]

Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but what exactly about the Pixel C is "innovative"? The whole charging of the keyboard via induction from the tablet is nice, but it seems like a better solution is a keyboard that never needs to be charged at all and is powered by the tablet directly. Plus you can make the keyboard slimmer since you need very little extra electronics, e.g. battery, charging circuitry, bluetooth circuitry, etc.

Outside of the keyboard charging method, seems like its just another run of the mill android tablet. No stylus support, no built in and widely supported multi-tasking modes, and the worst of the three in terms of tablet optimized software.

I think one point in the iPad Pro's favor that's overlooked is the fact that the smart connector is at least partially open to third parties, and based on their wording will eventually have a published spec. Logitech has already announced a keyboard, and I think it's safe to assume there will be more eventually, along with who knows what other kinds of accessories. This opens the door to have a plethora of options, which will make the cons of Apple's keyboard cover essentially moot.

It's innovative in the way it has a kickstand via the keyboard with multiple viewing angles. The iPad Pro doesn't, whatever viewing angle Apple thinks is right, is universally what people will have to use regardless of different height, position, standing, or sitting. That is typical of Apple though, and I am sure no one is surprised.

Every Apple fan I know always screams that the Surface Type Cover was too expensive and it would fail. Now the iPad Pro's keyboard is less functional, and is much more money.

The iPad Pro is literally just a natural progression of the iPad series, nothing special. The ONLY saving grace it has is the performance. I can't imagine the keyboard getting loads of good reviews, it looks almost impossible to use it on a lap or in bed.

I will probably end up getting one, just to see how it is. By that time I will also have a Surface Pro 4 and a MacBook, so I don't think it will be my main machine.

 

[VforVelveta]

It's innovative in the way it has a kickstand via the keyboard with multiple viewing angles. The iPad Pro doesn't, whatever viewing angle Apple thinks is right, is universally what people will have to use regardless of different height, position, standing, or sitting. That is typical of Apple though, and I am sure no one is surprised.

Every Apple fan I know always screams that the Surface Type Cover was too expensive and it would fail. Now the iPad Pro's keyboard is less functional, and is much more money.

The iPad Pro is literally just a natural progression of the iPad series, nothing special. The ONLY saving grace it has is the performance. I can't imagine the keyboard getting loads of good reviews, it looks almost impossible to use it on a lap or in bed.

I will probably end up getting one, just to see how it is. By that time I will also have a Surface Pro 4 and a MacBook, so I don't think it will be my main machine.

But multiple viewing angles via attachment to the keyboard isn't exactly new. There are multiple different keyboards you can buy for the iPad right now that offer fully adjustable viewing angles, some of them costing less than the Pixel C keyboard. And once the Pro is out, there will likely be plenty more made for it that can be even less expensive since they don't need to worry about everything needed for bluetooth keyboards.

I mean I get that it's nice, and the use of magnets is clever, but calling the whole thing the most innovative tablet since the Surface is really overselling it I think.

 

[EthanNixon]

But multiple viewing angles via attachment to the keyboard isn't exactly new. There are multiple different keyboards you can buy for the iPad right now that offer fully adjustable viewing angles, some of them costing less than the Pixel C keyboard. And once the Pro is out, there will likely be plenty more made for it that can be even less expensive since they don't need to worry about everything needed for bluetooth keyboards.

I mean I get that it's nice, and the use of magnets is clever, but calling the whole thing the most innovative tablet since the Surface is really overselling it I think.

It's innovative to me because it is a first part accessory that matches or beats what a third party accessory would have done. Apple took the easy way out in my opinion, and it will show with the third party accessories that will come out.

What they COULD have done is this: Take the new butterfly switches and make an aluminum dock for the iPad Pro. Literally, just take the screen off the MacBook and make it fit the iPad Pro. That would be been amazing in my opinion, and would have warranted the price they are charging now. You would have tons of viewing angles, it could have housed a battery for multi-day usage, and a trackpad for precise movement.

Instead we got a weird folding keyboard case.

 

[VforVelveta]

It's innovative to me because it is a first part accessory that matches or beats what a third party accessory would have done. Apple took the easy way out in my opinion, and it will show with the third party accessories that will come out.

What they COULD have done is this: Take the new butterfly switches and make an aluminum dock for the iPad Pro. Literally, just take the screen off the MacBook and make it fit the iPad Pro. That would be been amazing in my opinion, and would have warranted the price they are charging now. You would have tons of viewing angles, it could have housed a battery for multi-day usage, and a trackpad for precise movement.

Instead we got a weird folding keyboard case.

Had Apple done what you suggested, would you consider the Pro innovative then? All they would have made is something you can already buy from third parties, but with better materials and a technology they already introduced with the Macbook. There's nothing actually new or original about it, which to me seems like the definition of innovative.

I think the induction charging part of the Pixel is innovative, albeit the wrong solution in my opinion, but it's at least a new and novel way to use technology to solve a problem. But calling an attachable keyboard with adjustable viewing angles, of which several have existed for quite a while now, an innovation simply because it's a first party solution? I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

[JustMichal]

SP3 kickstand is amazing piece of engineering , Pixel 3 looks nothing special compared to that, iPad Pro is just a tablet with nothing innovative in it (but a lot of horsepower).

 

[garirry]

I love the Surface Pro and how it's made. Really beautiful. Not interested/influenced by the iPad Pro's and Pixel C's design.

 

[Michael Goff]

Not exactly sure why this forum has so many issues with the word "fanboy". Hell, I wasn't even calling someone specific a fanboy this time. On the wargaming forums, specifically the War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition forums, the members would have signatures with cool graphics that would say something like "F6F Hellcat fanboy" or "Tropical Disease fanboy". The internet has gotten way too butt-hurt.

The word fanboy is often used to try to devalue one side or type of opinion. It isn't useful to discussion.

 

[kring]

The iPad Pro is "just an iPad" I understand the desire to compare, but the Surface is a real computer AND a tablet. the iPad Pro is still just a web browsing and email checking toy with iOS on it.

I'm not a hater - I have 12 apple devices and plan to get the iPad Pro in November, because I love my iPad 3 and use it all the time for simple things. it's the most used gadget in my family's house... but it is not a computer and is incapable of more than it's capable of. so I couldn't do away with a real computer.

I see absolutely nothing in the iPad Pro that makes it more than just a larger screen iPad. it will remain an extremely-low-productivity tool and I have a feeling that it will be somewhat of a flop with high returns (still sell a boat load) because of buyers remorse when they realize a $1400 device does nothing more than browse email and web pages. and people will return it for an Air 2 and put $600 back in their pocket. They missed the mark by not putting a real OS on the Pro and trying to sell the iPad pro as something more than just a bigger iPad is going to backfire a little.

They will still sell a ton, and I acknowledge that the Pro has a very fit-for-purpose role for designers and may increase it's usefulness as more advanced apps come out... but no one in the corporate or business world could use this thing to replace their laptop... but a surface Pro 3 or 4 would absolutely replace a laptop.

just my 2 cents and I'll buy one anyway... mostly though because my current iPad is too slow now and the buying a 1 year old Air 2 is not a smart decision... it's lost 24-33% of it's useful life, they should have dropped the price by $200 when they announced the Pro and didn't announce a Air 3.

 

[Mivo]

I actually had never heard of Google's Pixel C. I didn't realize I was that far out of the loop!

 

[Noble Actual]

iPad Pro looks the best. Don't see most people getting it because it cannot replace a laptop.

Surface is the most functional (can run Windows 10). Best for students out of the three (see a lot of Surfaces and MacBook Airs at school)

Pixel, too early to tell. Would probably get this as the 3rd option if I was forced to.

 

[sjleworthy]

i wonder if Apple's next 'big innovation' will actually be a SP style machine? a tablet that gaps the laptop span.
it'll need to be something that obviously isn't an iPad, and something that obviously isn't a laptop, whilst having the ability to replace the laptop, like the SP series potentially can.

the new IPP will certainly have the hardware for it, but not the essential software. as mentioned here numerous times, to compete in the general business world it really does need desktop compatibility across the board, which includes the same software and os and some standard connectivity.

even though the IPP cant and wont generally replace the laptop, it certainly will aide and fee earn in the business environment for so many groups of people. it's certainly more than a big ipad. but, an ipad all the same, of which Apple 100% treat it as so.

as said, IPP's hardware isnt in question. it is awesome. but it's lacking the missing link. as mentioned, an opportunity for Apple to open a new market type?

 

[Mystro]

I don't think Apple cares what you call the iPad Pro as long as you buy it and it looks like most (say) they will. Even more impressive is those that ain't impressed with the iPad Pro still (say) they are buying one. (That is extremely impressive)
The Apple alternative would be green with envy if in the same situation.
Apple products ooze superior build quality and everyone knows it.

 

[sracer]

I don't think Apple cares what you call the iPad Pro as long as you buy it and it looks like most (say) they will. Even more impressive is those that ain't impressed with the iPad Pro still (say) they are buying one. (That is extremely impressive)
The Apple alternative would be green with envy if in the same situation.
Apple products ooze superior build quality and everyone knows it.

Who are those that are not impressed but buying the iPad Pro anyways?

 

[kring]

Who are those that are not impressed but buying the iPad Pro anyways?

There are two camps in my opinion.

First is those that were hoping to have a larger, faster iPad; most are/should be impressed, it covers that market segment well. It is the best 12" simple tablet out there.

But, second camp; if you were looking for a tablet that would replace or be better than a laptop and would essentially be a real computer and equivalent too apple's version of a surface pro.. Well It fails miserably at that. Thus why I think some are not impressed with the iPad pro.

I happen to be in the second camp. I thought the announcement was a let down but I still am stuck having to replace my old iPad 3.I'll get one because it is the only solution, the air 2 is not a wise buy, and no one else competes at the same level.

 

[masotime]

..... if you were looking for a tablet that would replace or be better than a laptop and would essentially be a real computer and equivalent too apple's version of a surface pro.. Well It fails miserably at that. Thus why I think some are not impressed with the iPad pro.

I happen to be in the second camp.

Interesting. You're definitely part of the market Apple is trying to target. They made a big fuss of support for "pro applications" on the iPad pro, inviting big names like Microsoft and Adobe. If more pro apps were made for the iPad pro that could satisfy people like you, then Apple would have won.

Would it work? Or would the inherent limitations of iOS (e.g. No free form filesystem access) be a barrier? Your opinions after trying it out for "pro work" for some time should be very interesting indeed.

 

[sracer]

There are two camps in my opinion.

First is those that were hoping to have a larger, faster iPad; most are/should be impressed, it covers that market segment well. It is the best 12" simple tablet out there.

But, second camp; if you were looking for a tablet that would replace or be better than a laptop and would essentially be a real computer and equivalent too apple's version of a surface pro.. Well It fails miserably at that. Thus why I think some are not impressed with the iPad pro.

I happen to be in the second camp. I thought the announcement was a let down but I still am stuck having to replace my old iPad 3.I'll get one because it is the only solution, the air 2 is not a wise buy, and no one else competes at the same level.

How is the first camp not impressed? How is the iPad Pro not a larger, faster iPad?

The second camp had unrealistic expectations if they were looking for Apple's version of the Surface Pro. I guess it depends upon what one's definition of what a "wise buy" is, but the Air 2 still has terrific performance and can take full advantage of iOS 9. If it isn't a wise buy because the hardware was released last year, then that's a pretty simplistic view and one that will result in making a less wise buy by purchasing a 1st gen product which historically sees a significant bump in the 2nd gen.

I had meager expectations for the iPad Pro. Active stylus, keyboard cover w/trackpad, support for mice and USB peripherals. It fell short of those. So rather than pay a premium for something that doesn't meet my expectations, I purchased an Air 2 at a significant discount. I'll hold onto that until Apple produces an iPad (Pro or otherwise) that DOES meet my expectations.

By my thinking buying a device that one is not impressed with is not a wise buy.

 

[kring]

How is the first camp not impressed? How is the iPad Pro not a larger, faster iPad?

Just to be clear, I actually said the first camp should be impressed.

I'm not sure expectations on a completely unreleased and unknown product can be considered unreal. Those expectations were founded in many of the rumors found on this site and others. that Apple is working on a new product line with large screen.. they could have gone the surface route or just a larger iPad... and they chose the latter... I recall early rumors on this site saying it would be closer to a Surface Pro and would actually dual-boot OSX & iOS. I even recall rumors about Intel's new chip that doesn't require active cooling as possibly being in the iPad along with the new Mac Book Air's. In addition, there's plenty of rumors about Microsoft's rush to get out the Surface Pro 4 so they don't miss out on that segment... looks like Microsoft has cornered that market.

Just curious - which would you think would sell more and which would have the larger impact on the "professional/business" segment? Apple releasing a Surface Pro 3 killer running OSX, or the iPad Pro?

Another question - Is Apple afraid of the Surface Pro 4, thus avoiding the segment? I think so...

 

[Piggie]

Nobody beats apple. Lets be real.

The Surface is not a tablet. It is a thick, heavy, less useful laptop.

I have only just seen the google pixel but it looks annoying.

iPad Pro wins.

If the iPad Pro, also ran OSX as well as iOS.
As far as you are concerned would that make it junk ?

Let's imagine for 1 second, the iPadPro ran IOS, but, you could clip on the keyboard apple are going to sell, tap on an icon and the device flipped into OSX mode.

Do I presume you would be disliking it for being able to do that option?

 

[username:]

If the iPad Pro, also ran OSX as well as iOS.
As far as you are concerned would that make it junk ?

Let's imagine for 1 second, the iPadPro ran IOS, but, you could clip on the keyboard apple are going to sell, tap on an icon and the device flipped into OSX mode.

Do I presume you would be disliking it for being able to do that option?

Yes due to the fact that apps would suck because they would be a weird hybrid between iOS and OS X, some buttons would be touch friendly, while others I would have to use my mouse. I wouldn't understand how to interact with the iPad. Should I use the mouse or my finger? It's not user friendly using touch when the iPad is propped up like a laptop. I would prefer to use a mouse. But some apps only work with touch. Developers would be confused too they don't know when to make apps work with iOS or OS X.

And really what's the point? So I can convert my iPad pro into a laptop that runs OS X? Okay, but then it is useless as an iPad.... And I have to convert it back to use my awesome iPad apps that I love and work great on an iPad running iOS. Hmmm it's almost like two devices would work better than one device! One could be great with keyboard and mouse, while one could be amazing with a touch screen.

 

[Piggie]

I don't mean blur iOS and OSX and try and make them one thing.
I mean keep them separate.
Not like the surface which runs one OS.
I mean an iPad Pro which can be run, totally separately in two modes.

Other than a keyboard being physically permanently attached. I don't see the difference between an iPad Pro and a MacBook.
Theoretically it's the exact same thing. A rectangle screen, glass front, metal back with does computing.

How a keyboard is attached, I'd say is a minor point.

 

[rowspaxe]

Yes due to the fact that apps would suck because they would be a weird hybrid between iOS and OS X, some buttons would be touch friendly, while others I would have to use my mouse. I wouldn't understand how to interact with the iPad.

really? is that how you think windows 8.x/10 works? C'mpn posters--get a cllue!

 

[Piggie]

As I said.
There are two ways of doing this.
One OS that does both, blending in tablet and laptop, which, windows does, and I'm not even sure that's the best idea in practice even though in theory it seems a good idea.

Or having a device that works in two totally separate modes.

There is no reason whatsoever why the iPad Pro could not run iOS and just be an iPad when the user wanted it to be.
But, at the press of a button, and perhaps attaching the optional keyboard it flipped into true OSX mode.

The only issues stopping such a device from being 100% practical are power and battery life. Both of which will be solved as time moves on, and, as time moves on it will become harder and harder to justify something like the iPad Pro from only being an iPad.

 

[rowspaxe]

I am not impressed with Apple's keyboard cover. Not feeling the whole "cloth-covered" keyboard thing. But I expect Logitech and/or Zagg to produce something that'll really work well for the iPad Pro.

Used to be we waited for Apple to provide elegant solutions and only count on Logictech or Zagg for kludgey hold overs. WTF happened with the ipp smart cover development: its total garbage. Woven keys? Really? I would love to know the back story on this product.

 

[Michael Goff]

If the iPad Pro, also ran OSX as well as iOS.
As far as you are concerned would that make it junk ?

Let's imagine for 1 second, the iPadPro ran IOS, but, you could clip on the keyboard apple are going to sell, tap on an icon and the device flipped into OSX mode.

Do I presume you would be disliking it for being able to do that option?

I cant speak for him, but I definitely would.